Learn another language (spoken)
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And I've decided to go with German...cause it sounds cool...like everything they say sounds angry... :cool: I like... :) Anyways, I poked around Google a bit and found squat for learning references (Free??) but I did find one resource although very limited gave me an idea of how it differs from English... I've had friends who know Polish and French tell me the same thing so I'm assuming this is unique to English, but... Objects have both feminine and masculine terms as well as singular and plural...why is that? For instance the article on German used "The Airplane(s)" as an example: das was used for singular and die was used for plural followed by the word Airplane in german of course... :) I'm curious...is there a reason why European languages have a different way of describing something as masculine or feminine? In learing another language...would it help to first learn pronounciation by learning individual words first, then move onto studying grammar, etc??? Or should I start by learning full sentances? Do you know any resources which are free and offer audio clips tht would assist me in learning German? I'm thinking maybe goto library and pick something up... Anyways, thanks :) Merry XMAS :)
It's frustrating being a genius and living the life of a moron!!!
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And I've decided to go with German...cause it sounds cool...like everything they say sounds angry... :cool: I like... :) Anyways, I poked around Google a bit and found squat for learning references (Free??) but I did find one resource although very limited gave me an idea of how it differs from English... I've had friends who know Polish and French tell me the same thing so I'm assuming this is unique to English, but... Objects have both feminine and masculine terms as well as singular and plural...why is that? For instance the article on German used "The Airplane(s)" as an example: das was used for singular and die was used for plural followed by the word Airplane in german of course... :) I'm curious...is there a reason why European languages have a different way of describing something as masculine or feminine? In learing another language...would it help to first learn pronounciation by learning individual words first, then move onto studying grammar, etc??? Or should I start by learning full sentances? Do you know any resources which are free and offer audio clips tht would assist me in learning German? I'm thinking maybe goto library and pick something up... Anyways, thanks :) Merry XMAS :)
It's frustrating being a genius and living the life of a moron!!!
Hockey wrote:
In learing another language...would it help to first learn pronounciation by learning individual words first, then move onto studying grammar, etc??? Or should I start by learning full sentances?
Everyone learns differently - I'd experiment until you find what is right for you. One thing I do is to get DVDs from the country of the language I'm learning and watch it with the subtitles.
Upcoming Scottish Developers events: * Glasgow: Tell us what you want to see in 2007 My: Website | Blog | Photos
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And I've decided to go with German...cause it sounds cool...like everything they say sounds angry... :cool: I like... :) Anyways, I poked around Google a bit and found squat for learning references (Free??) but I did find one resource although very limited gave me an idea of how it differs from English... I've had friends who know Polish and French tell me the same thing so I'm assuming this is unique to English, but... Objects have both feminine and masculine terms as well as singular and plural...why is that? For instance the article on German used "The Airplane(s)" as an example: das was used for singular and die was used for plural followed by the word Airplane in german of course... :) I'm curious...is there a reason why European languages have a different way of describing something as masculine or feminine? In learing another language...would it help to first learn pronounciation by learning individual words first, then move onto studying grammar, etc??? Or should I start by learning full sentances? Do you know any resources which are free and offer audio clips tht would assist me in learning German? I'm thinking maybe goto library and pick something up... Anyways, thanks :) Merry XMAS :)
It's frustrating being a genius and living the life of a moron!!!
Hockey wrote:
Objects have both feminine and masculine terms as well as singular and plural...why is that? For instance the article on German used "The Airplane(s)" as an example: das was used for singular and die was used for plural followed by the word Airplane in german of course... I'm curious...is there a reason why European languages have a different way of describing something as masculine or feminine?
Many languages have grammatical gender. The proto-indo-european language (which is supposedly common ancestor to all european languages) had two genders. During the time some languages have lost grammatical gender and some have kept it. Here you can find a list of languages which have two or more grammatical genders: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_gender
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And I've decided to go with German...cause it sounds cool...like everything they say sounds angry... :cool: I like... :) Anyways, I poked around Google a bit and found squat for learning references (Free??) but I did find one resource although very limited gave me an idea of how it differs from English... I've had friends who know Polish and French tell me the same thing so I'm assuming this is unique to English, but... Objects have both feminine and masculine terms as well as singular and plural...why is that? For instance the article on German used "The Airplane(s)" as an example: das was used for singular and die was used for plural followed by the word Airplane in german of course... :) I'm curious...is there a reason why European languages have a different way of describing something as masculine or feminine? In learing another language...would it help to first learn pronounciation by learning individual words first, then move onto studying grammar, etc??? Or should I start by learning full sentances? Do you know any resources which are free and offer audio clips tht would assist me in learning German? I'm thinking maybe goto library and pick something up... Anyways, thanks :) Merry XMAS :)
It's frustrating being a genius and living the life of a moron!!!
Hockey wrote:
Objects have both feminine and masculine terms as well as singular and plural
While Hindi has genders for objects, AFAIK Bengali another Indian language does not differentiate between people of different gender. And the Bengali friends of mine keep making gender mistakes when they talk in Hindi. So, good luck guessing gender of objects(mind you there are no rules for this, you either know it or you don't).
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Hockey wrote:
Objects have both feminine and masculine terms as well as singular and plural
While Hindi has genders for objects, AFAIK Bengali another Indian language does not differentiate between people of different gender. And the Bengali friends of mine keep making gender mistakes when they talk in Hindi. So, good luck guessing gender of objects(mind you there are no rules for this, you either know it or you don't).
Anand Vivek Srivastava wrote:
And the Bengali friends of mine keep making gender mistakes when they talk in Hindi.
So do I. I am a Marathi speaker who is also fluent in Tamil, and both of these languages have a neuter gender. I can never figure out if most things in Hindi are 'pulling' or 'sthreeling'. Common WTFs: 'Sena', which is overwhelmingly male-dominated (indeed, I don't know of any Indian armies of old that had female combatants) is feminine. They both mean wind, but 'hawa' is feminine while 'pavan' is masculine. Maybe for a native Hindi speaker like you, it might make sense; but for a Marathi speaker like me, it is mind-boggling that tables, shoes and houses have sex gender. :omg:
Cheers, Vikram.
"Life isn't fair, and the world is full of unscrupulous characters. There are things worth fighting for, killing for and dying for, but it's a really small list. Chalk it up to experience, let it go, and move on to the next positive experience in your life." - Christopher Duncan.
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And I've decided to go with German...cause it sounds cool...like everything they say sounds angry... :cool: I like... :) Anyways, I poked around Google a bit and found squat for learning references (Free??) but I did find one resource although very limited gave me an idea of how it differs from English... I've had friends who know Polish and French tell me the same thing so I'm assuming this is unique to English, but... Objects have both feminine and masculine terms as well as singular and plural...why is that? For instance the article on German used "The Airplane(s)" as an example: das was used for singular and die was used for plural followed by the word Airplane in german of course... :) I'm curious...is there a reason why European languages have a different way of describing something as masculine or feminine? In learing another language...would it help to first learn pronounciation by learning individual words first, then move onto studying grammar, etc??? Or should I start by learning full sentances? Do you know any resources which are free and offer audio clips tht would assist me in learning German? I'm thinking maybe goto library and pick something up... Anyways, thanks :) Merry XMAS :)
It's frustrating being a genius and living the life of a moron!!!
BBC Languages[^] Also, Deutsche Welle[^] has programs aimed at beginners, but as Raymond Chen[^] notes, they are slowly spoken "high level" german, i.e. the equivalent of "conversational english 101" by a Oxford Professor of Literature. As others said, it's a gramamtical gender, choice of gender has lost it's reason over time and is sometimes counterinuitive. But generally, if there is a clear gender, the grammatical is the same as the natural (der Mann, die Frau). For basic conversational language, a good travel language guide can give you a head start. There's a (german) brand that couples "build yourself" - "what you need" phrases with a slight neglect of the more complicated aspects of grammar and word-by-word translations that sound funny but give you a feel for the language. (Unfortunately, they are for germans :)) Coupled with a audio CD to listen repeatedly, to get a feel for the flow of the language you can get to at least survival skills. like where is the next hotel, I don't eat tofu, there is a arrow through my chest, etc.
Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Velopers, Develprs, Developers!
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
Linkify!|Fold With Us! -
And I've decided to go with German...cause it sounds cool...like everything they say sounds angry... :cool: I like... :) Anyways, I poked around Google a bit and found squat for learning references (Free??) but I did find one resource although very limited gave me an idea of how it differs from English... I've had friends who know Polish and French tell me the same thing so I'm assuming this is unique to English, but... Objects have both feminine and masculine terms as well as singular and plural...why is that? For instance the article on German used "The Airplane(s)" as an example: das was used for singular and die was used for plural followed by the word Airplane in german of course... :) I'm curious...is there a reason why European languages have a different way of describing something as masculine or feminine? In learing another language...would it help to first learn pronounciation by learning individual words first, then move onto studying grammar, etc??? Or should I start by learning full sentances? Do you know any resources which are free and offer audio clips tht would assist me in learning German? I'm thinking maybe goto library and pick something up... Anyways, thanks :) Merry XMAS :)
It's frustrating being a genius and living the life of a moron!!!
I think going to the library to pick up some language CDs is a good start. If nothing else you get familiar with the sound and "feel" of German. My parents are from Germany, so I've grown up with it as a second language, I still have no clue about proper genders, I just use what seems to sound right or slur it into a single "deh" sound and hope noone cares enough to notice. :rolleyes: I bought some books, by Henry Strutz, that are pretty good. 1001 Pitfalls in German[^] 501 German Verbs[^] Another thought, once you understand some German, would be to get an Audio book for a book you already know. That way you can focus on language more so than the plot and characters.
BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven Wright -
I think going to the library to pick up some language CDs is a good start. If nothing else you get familiar with the sound and "feel" of German. My parents are from Germany, so I've grown up with it as a second language, I still have no clue about proper genders, I just use what seems to sound right or slur it into a single "deh" sound and hope noone cares enough to notice. :rolleyes: I bought some books, by Henry Strutz, that are pretty good. 1001 Pitfalls in German[^] 501 German Verbs[^] Another thought, once you understand some German, would be to get an Audio book for a book you already know. That way you can focus on language more so than the plot and characters.
BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven Wrightbrianwelsch wrote:
I just use what seems to sound right
Thats how about 99% of all germans do it - including me :laugh:. Robert
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BBC Languages[^] Also, Deutsche Welle[^] has programs aimed at beginners, but as Raymond Chen[^] notes, they are slowly spoken "high level" german, i.e. the equivalent of "conversational english 101" by a Oxford Professor of Literature. As others said, it's a gramamtical gender, choice of gender has lost it's reason over time and is sometimes counterinuitive. But generally, if there is a clear gender, the grammatical is the same as the natural (der Mann, die Frau). For basic conversational language, a good travel language guide can give you a head start. There's a (german) brand that couples "build yourself" - "what you need" phrases with a slight neglect of the more complicated aspects of grammar and word-by-word translations that sound funny but give you a feel for the language. (Unfortunately, they are for germans :)) Coupled with a audio CD to listen repeatedly, to get a feel for the flow of the language you can get to at least survival skills. like where is the next hotel, I don't eat tofu, there is a arrow through my chest, etc.
Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Velopers, Develprs, Developers!
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
Linkify!|Fold With Us!peterchen wrote:
Also, Deutsche Welle[^] has programs aimed at beginners, but as Raymond Chen[^] notes, they are slowly spoken "high level" german, i.e. the equivalent of "conversational english 101" by a Oxford Professor of Literature.
Hmm, well, I find Deutsche Welle very good for beginners. Even if you don't get it all in the first run, you will have learned a little bit more of the "german music". The hardest part about spoken German in my opinion is the rhythm and pitch. Deutsche Welle broadcasts should be listened to twice. :)
-- For proper viewing, take red pill now
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brianwelsch wrote:
I just use what seems to sound right
Thats how about 99% of all germans do it - including me :laugh:. Robert
It takes a while though before you get the sense of "what sounds right". I believe you guys have a good term for it: Fingerspitzgefühl. :)
-- LOADING...
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peterchen wrote:
Also, Deutsche Welle[^] has programs aimed at beginners, but as Raymond Chen[^] notes, they are slowly spoken "high level" german, i.e. the equivalent of "conversational english 101" by a Oxford Professor of Literature.
Hmm, well, I find Deutsche Welle very good for beginners. Even if you don't get it all in the first run, you will have learned a little bit more of the "german music". The hardest part about spoken German in my opinion is the rhythm and pitch. Deutsche Welle broadcasts should be listened to twice. :)
-- For proper viewing, take red pill now
I never listened to it, I am just spreading Raymonds gospel word ;)
Joergen Sigvardsson wrote:
The hardest part about spoken German in my opinion is the rhythm and pitch.
It is in many languages - do you think it's exceptionally more in german?
Joergen Sigvardsson wrote:
Deutsche Welle broadcasts should be listened to twice.
On behalf of my countrymen, I take that as a compliment!
Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Velopers, Develprs, Developers!
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
Linkify!|Fold With Us! -
Anand Vivek Srivastava wrote:
And the Bengali friends of mine keep making gender mistakes when they talk in Hindi.
So do I. I am a Marathi speaker who is also fluent in Tamil, and both of these languages have a neuter gender. I can never figure out if most things in Hindi are 'pulling' or 'sthreeling'. Common WTFs: 'Sena', which is overwhelmingly male-dominated (indeed, I don't know of any Indian armies of old that had female combatants) is feminine. They both mean wind, but 'hawa' is feminine while 'pavan' is masculine. Maybe for a native Hindi speaker like you, it might make sense; but for a Marathi speaker like me, it is mind-boggling that tables, shoes and houses have sex gender. :omg:
Cheers, Vikram.
"Life isn't fair, and the world is full of unscrupulous characters. There are things worth fighting for, killing for and dying for, but it's a really small list. Chalk it up to experience, let it go, and move on to the next positive experience in your life." - Christopher Duncan.
Vikram A Punathambekar wrote:
Maybe for a native Hindi speaker like you, it might make sense;
Anand Vivek Srivastava wrote:
mind you there are no rules for this, you either know it or you don't
it does not make any sense to me either(or to my parents). there are lots of language features that don't make any sense now, there might have been some reason related to the origin of word.
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Hockey wrote:
Objects have both feminine and masculine terms as well as singular and plural...why is that? For instance the article on German used "The Airplane(s)" as an example: das was used for singular and die was used for plural followed by the word Airplane in german of course... I'm curious...is there a reason why European languages have a different way of describing something as masculine or feminine?
Many languages have grammatical gender. The proto-indo-european language (which is supposedly common ancestor to all european languages) had two genders. During the time some languages have lost grammatical gender and some have kept it. Here you can find a list of languages which have two or more grammatical genders: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_gender
Cool thanks... Man I love wikipedia :)
It's frustrating being a genius and living the life of a moron!!!
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BBC Languages[^] Also, Deutsche Welle[^] has programs aimed at beginners, but as Raymond Chen[^] notes, they are slowly spoken "high level" german, i.e. the equivalent of "conversational english 101" by a Oxford Professor of Literature. As others said, it's a gramamtical gender, choice of gender has lost it's reason over time and is sometimes counterinuitive. But generally, if there is a clear gender, the grammatical is the same as the natural (der Mann, die Frau). For basic conversational language, a good travel language guide can give you a head start. There's a (german) brand that couples "build yourself" - "what you need" phrases with a slight neglect of the more complicated aspects of grammar and word-by-word translations that sound funny but give you a feel for the language. (Unfortunately, they are for germans :)) Coupled with a audio CD to listen repeatedly, to get a feel for the flow of the language you can get to at least survival skills. like where is the next hotel, I don't eat tofu, there is a arrow through my chest, etc.
Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Velopers, Develprs, Developers!
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
Linkify!|Fold With Us!Haha...cool thanks man... Appreciate the links :)
It's frustrating being a genius and living the life of a moron!!!
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It takes a while though before you get the sense of "what sounds right". I believe you guys have a good term for it: Fingerspitzgefühl. :)
-- LOADING...
Joergen Sigvardsson wrote:
Fingerspitzgefühl
Not to be confused with the English phrase: 'all thumbs'. ;)
BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven Wright -
And I've decided to go with German...cause it sounds cool...like everything they say sounds angry... :cool: I like... :) Anyways, I poked around Google a bit and found squat for learning references (Free??) but I did find one resource although very limited gave me an idea of how it differs from English... I've had friends who know Polish and French tell me the same thing so I'm assuming this is unique to English, but... Objects have both feminine and masculine terms as well as singular and plural...why is that? For instance the article on German used "The Airplane(s)" as an example: das was used for singular and die was used for plural followed by the word Airplane in german of course... :) I'm curious...is there a reason why European languages have a different way of describing something as masculine or feminine? In learing another language...would it help to first learn pronounciation by learning individual words first, then move onto studying grammar, etc??? Or should I start by learning full sentances? Do you know any resources which are free and offer audio clips tht would assist me in learning German? I'm thinking maybe goto library and pick something up... Anyways, thanks :) Merry XMAS :)
It's frustrating being a genius and living the life of a moron!!!
Hockey wrote:
is there a reason why European languages have a different way of describing something
English IS a European language, you ARE wrting and speaking a European language already. The reason English doesnt, and its root languages, Dutch and French, do, is because English is a bastardised, simplified language that is gramatically very incorrect. English formed during the plagues in the 13th century when society virtually collapsed. With this collapse of order and control, a new bastardised form emerged after 50 years combining the basic sentence structure and verbs of old english (old saxon), but dropping allmost all inflections including gender, with Norman French nouns and adjectives. I would get a book and CD combo if you want to learn German. I would have thought though that French would be more usefull to you.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception