Need some opinions
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Hey guys, i got a question. Hope to get some views on this. I am just wondering, with XAML, will there be another group of developers born into this industry? I mean can the industry support these new group of developers who will only focus on UI design of an application? AFAIK, one will be able to develop an application UI separately. I myself is definitely more comfortable with this. What are your views? [modified] When you take a look at games, i believed the UI would make up many graphics and animation and the people behind it are probably the graphic designers/artist right? Can the same logic apply to application development? [/modified]
Weiye Chen Give me the Death Note, and I'll cleanse the world...
Weiye Chen wrote:
will there be another group of developers
They will be the ones without msdn and/or deep pockets. Funily enough, I was reading a post on Microsoft Watch[^] this morning where the MS people are quite vehement that that Expression won't be part of msdn (it's for designers, not developers). The thing is, XAML+C# is to winforms in the same way that HTML+C# is to asp.net. And how many developers do the HTML part also? Ok, we'll have whatever tools they allow us to have in "Orcas," but we'll still need to generated the graphics somewhere. Why are developers going to spend extra cash on Expression when they probably already have Illustrator / Photoshop already? [/rant over] Sorry about the rant, but it seems that MS are trying to cash in on adobe's market, MSDN customers won't bring in any extra money for them.
ChrisB ChrisDoesDev[^]
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Weiye Chen wrote:
will there be another group of developers
They will be the ones without msdn and/or deep pockets. Funily enough, I was reading a post on Microsoft Watch[^] this morning where the MS people are quite vehement that that Expression won't be part of msdn (it's for designers, not developers). The thing is, XAML+C# is to winforms in the same way that HTML+C# is to asp.net. And how many developers do the HTML part also? Ok, we'll have whatever tools they allow us to have in "Orcas," but we'll still need to generated the graphics somewhere. Why are developers going to spend extra cash on Expression when they probably already have Illustrator / Photoshop already? [/rant over] Sorry about the rant, but it seems that MS are trying to cash in on adobe's market, MSDN customers won't bring in any extra money for them.
ChrisB ChrisDoesDev[^]
Chris Buckett wrote:
this morning where the MS people are quite vehement that that Expression won't be part of msdn (it's for designers, not developers).
Yeah, this is pathetic. Make Cider work, then we won't need Expression.
Christian Graus - C++ MVP 'Why don't we jump on a fad that hasn't already been widely discredited ?' - Dilbert
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Chris Buckett wrote:
this morning where the MS people are quite vehement that that Expression won't be part of msdn (it's for designers, not developers).
Yeah, this is pathetic. Make Cider work, then we won't need Expression.
Christian Graus - C++ MVP 'Why don't we jump on a fad that hasn't already been widely discredited ?' - Dilbert
Cider already works for me:-D. This post has just given me a fierce thirst.
the last thing I want to see is some pasty-faced geek with skin so pale that it's almost translucent trying to bump parts with a partner - John Simmons / outlaw programmer
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before. -
Chris Buckett wrote:
this morning where the MS people are quite vehement that that Expression won't be part of msdn (it's for designers, not developers).
Yeah, this is pathetic. Make Cider work, then we won't need Expression.
Christian Graus - C++ MVP 'Why don't we jump on a fad that hasn't already been widely discredited ?' - Dilbert
Christian Graus wrote:
we won't need Expression.
I'm not sure UI designers want to load up VS nor do companies want to have to buy VS for their designers too.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
I don't see it happening, at least not until it becomes pointless.
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Weiye Chen wrote:
will there be another group of developers
They will be the ones without msdn and/or deep pockets. Funily enough, I was reading a post on Microsoft Watch[^] this morning where the MS people are quite vehement that that Expression won't be part of msdn (it's for designers, not developers). The thing is, XAML+C# is to winforms in the same way that HTML+C# is to asp.net. And how many developers do the HTML part also? Ok, we'll have whatever tools they allow us to have in "Orcas," but we'll still need to generated the graphics somewhere. Why are developers going to spend extra cash on Expression when they probably already have Illustrator / Photoshop already? [/rant over] Sorry about the rant, but it seems that MS are trying to cash in on adobe's market, MSDN customers won't bring in any extra money for them.
ChrisB ChrisDoesDev[^]
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Hmmm, strange that Expression doesn't seem to be available as a MSDN subscriber download. Am I missing it somewhere?
Mark Tutt wrote:
Am I missing it somewhere?
That's the point. We're all missing it. :( Apparently, it's a tool for designers, not developers, and isn't going to be part of MSDN.
ChrisB ChrisDoesDev[^]
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Mark Tutt wrote:
Am I missing it somewhere?
That's the point. We're all missing it. :( Apparently, it's a tool for designers, not developers, and isn't going to be part of MSDN.
ChrisB ChrisDoesDev[^]
Hmmm, but OneNote and Frontpage are tools for developers... right. Something's gone screwy in Redmond. I tried for a while to get information on Microsoft RMS, their retail POS platform (I do POS system development), but the end answer I got was I had to sign up as a reseller to get the API docs. Trying to explain to the drone on the phone that we wanted to write add-on products and were not interested in reselling the system itself got nowhere.
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Hey guys, i got a question. Hope to get some views on this. I am just wondering, with XAML, will there be another group of developers born into this industry? I mean can the industry support these new group of developers who will only focus on UI design of an application? AFAIK, one will be able to develop an application UI separately. I myself is definitely more comfortable with this. What are your views? [modified] When you take a look at games, i believed the UI would make up many graphics and animation and the people behind it are probably the graphic designers/artist right? Can the same logic apply to application development? [/modified]
Weiye Chen Give me the Death Note, and I'll cleanse the world...
Weiye Chen wrote:
with XAML, will there be another group of developers born into this industry?
More specifically, I do believe that WPF will create a new group of developers.
Weiye Chen wrote:
one will be able to develop an application UI separately.
Agreed. However, I'm wary about the quality of the UI. Is it simply going to be eye candy with a poor usability? Also, will the back end developer end up conflicting with the UI developer? I've certainly experienced this when I did game development, as the graphic artist had one idea about presentation and the developer had quite a different idea. Getting consensus took a strong manager, which was hard to find. Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smith -
Weiye Chen wrote:
with XAML, will there be another group of developers born into this industry?
More specifically, I do believe that WPF will create a new group of developers.
Weiye Chen wrote:
one will be able to develop an application UI separately.
Agreed. However, I'm wary about the quality of the UI. Is it simply going to be eye candy with a poor usability? Also, will the back end developer end up conflicting with the UI developer? I've certainly experienced this when I did game development, as the graphic artist had one idea about presentation and the developer had quite a different idea. Getting consensus took a strong manager, which was hard to find. Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithMarc Clifton wrote:
when I did game development, as the graphic artist had one idea about presentation and the developer had quite a different idea.
Jesus Christ, tell me about it. I was up oh so late last night dealing with exactly that.....
My Blog A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
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Christian Graus wrote:
we won't need Expression.
I'm not sure UI designers want to load up VS nor do companies want to have to buy VS for their designers too.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
I don't see it happening, at least not until it becomes pointless.
Paul Watson wrote:
I'm not sure UI designers want to load up VS
That's fine. But, if I, as a developer, want to use WPF, Cider is useless, and my MSDN doesn't come with Expression.
Christian Graus - C++ MVP 'Why don't we jump on a fad that hasn't already been widely discredited ?' - Dilbert