Getting a pay-raise
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Why? It's a free market. Obliged? nah, makes good business sense? You bet. I would simply act like a professional and prepare to justify your request. Of course, if you have a pissy boss, might want to have some other oppoerunities lined up.
Charlie Gilley Will program for food... Whoever said children were cheaper by the dozen... lied. My son's PDA is an M249 SAW. My other son commutes in an M1A2 Abrams
:)
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar Personal Homepage Tech Gossips
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How does one approach your boss for a pay-raise? I'm asking for a friend, he's a programmer and feels he's underpaid.
"you can't forget something you never knew..." M. Du Toit
"Watching Migthy Joe Young made me hate my life..................................I want a gorilla!" A. Havemannevilnoodle wrote:
I'm asking for a friend, he's a programmer and feels he's underpaid.
ROTFL. "Hi Doc, well I am perfectly OK, but I have got a ... eh ... friend that has ... well ... syphilis and I would like to know how I could get ri... well how HE could get rid of it." :rolleyes:
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Why? It's a free market. Obliged? nah, makes good business sense? You bet. I would simply act like a professional and prepare to justify your request. Of course, if you have a pissy boss, might want to have some other oppoerunities lined up.
Charlie Gilley Will program for food... Whoever said children were cheaper by the dozen... lied. My son's PDA is an M249 SAW. My other son commutes in an M1A2 Abrams
charlieg wrote:
Will program for food...
LOL, guess your pay-raise includes a jacket potato?
"you can't forget something you never knew..." M. Du Toit
"Watching Migthy Joe Young made me hate my life..................................I want a gorilla!" A. Havemann -
evilnoodle wrote:
How does one approach your boss for a pay-raise?
I'm a boss, so I can only say what worked with me. First, a word of advice for your "friend" (it's you, right? ;) ) : some professionals don't even notice that their boss is highly unsatisfied with their job, no matter what their boss says. Can you imagine your boss reaction when a professional like that comes to talk about a raise? :) How to not get your raise: "Boss, I need more money because I now have to spend money on (X)." So, try this: "Boss, I feel I'm underpaid. I believe I should be earning at least $X because I researched the market and that's what other companies are paying for a guy like me." I like this approach. It's honest, simple, professional, and your boss cannot question $X, because probably he knows it's true. Moreover, it leaves a subtle, elegant message "I'll leave soon to one of those companies if you don't raise my salary" without needing to say. Just be careful to really research what $X means. Don't lie. Also, your boss cannot use the cheap trick "you deserve it, but the company does not have money right now", which I find as stupid as the "Boss, I need more money because I now have to spend money on (X)." approach. If this doesn't work: "I'm leaving. I found a job that pays me more." And be careful, only do this if it's really true. If you're really underpaid, there should be no problem finding a better paying job.
Daniel Turini wrote:
"Boss, I need more money because I now have to spend money on (X)." approach.
Yeah, that's just stupid. I need a Lear Jet. That is NOT my bosses problem.
Christian Graus - C++ MVP 'Why don't we jump on a fad that hasn't already been widely discredited ?' - Dilbert
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evilnoodle wrote:
I'm asking for a friend, he's a programmer and feels he's underpaid.
ROTFL. "Hi Doc, well I am perfectly OK, but I have got a ... eh ... friend that has ... well ... syphilis and I would like to know how I could get ri... well how HE could get rid of it." :rolleyes:
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How does one approach your boss for a pay-raise? I'm asking for a friend, he's a programmer and feels he's underpaid.
"you can't forget something you never knew..." M. Du Toit
"Watching Migthy Joe Young made me hate my life..................................I want a gorilla!" A. Havemann -
When there is a good performance of the employee, I think, any employer is obliged to reward him. Isn't it?
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar Personal Homepage Tech Gossips
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an employer will always try to have a minimum cost for maximum labour...
V. I found a living worth working for, but haven't found work worth living for.
V. wrote:
an employer will always try to have a minimum cost for maximum labour...
You're partially right. Maybe you should rephrase that as "an employer will often try to have a total minimum cost for total maximum labour". Sometimes, this means a lot of stupid people working with the lowest salaries possible. Sometimes, this means a small group of highly qualified people working with the biggest salaries possible, so I don't lose them. On a lot of companies, even on the service industry, the payroll is not the biggest expense, so often it makes sense to pay a lot to make sure you can create morale, experience, and reduce turn-over.
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Daniel Turini wrote:
"Boss, I need more money because I now have to spend money on (X)." approach.
Yeah, that's just stupid. I need a Lear Jet. That is NOT my bosses problem.
Christian Graus - C++ MVP 'Why don't we jump on a fad that hasn't already been widely discredited ?' - Dilbert
Well, "I need a raise because otherwise I can't pay the rent and my landlord will kick me out, then I can't actually come to work for you" might work. Having said that, I doubt that many programmers are on subsistence income and marginal enough that a small increase in rent will push them over the edge. The housing market in this country is currently awash with idiots trying to become private landlords, which is pushing property prices up if you're trying to buy, but a glut of property available to rent, so rental prices are barely moving. I've just renewed my contract for another six months, and the price I'm paying hasn't changed since I moved in two years ago. A friend's rent has increased I think about 3% in five years, and I think that's because the agent increased their fee.
Stability. What an interesting concept. -- Chris Maunder
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When there is a good performance of the employee, I think, any employer is obliged to reward him. Isn't it?
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar Personal Homepage Tech Gossips
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar wrote:
When there is a good performance of the employee, I think, any employer is obliged to reward him. Isn't it?
Hell No!The job of a (for-profit) business is to make money. If they can pay a developer that is worth $120K only $75K, then they most likely will! The employ_ee_ has the responsibility to make sure they are getting paid what they are worth. If you are worth it, the company already knows this and you will likely get the raise. If not, you will not get the raise. It is usually just that simple. A common BS response to be prepared for: Nobody else here [at that level] gets paid that much.Not your problem - you are not the same as everyone else thereShould it come down to it, you would be surprised how much incentive another offer of employment can have on your current compensation... It really helps to put things in perspective to realize how much you are really worth, especially when your current employer matches or even beats the offer. Remember: a software company generally**IS**its developers. All of a software company's business starts and ends with its development staff. Without them, there is nothing for Marketing to sell, nothing for QA to test, nothing for PMs to manage... no company for the Executive Staff to run. Peace!-=- James
Please rate this message - let me know if I helped or not! * * *If you think it costs a lot to do it right, just wait until you find out how much it costs to do it wrong!
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Vasudevan Deepak Kumar wrote:
When there is a good performance of the employee, I think, any employer is obliged to reward him. Isn't it?
Hell No!The job of a (for-profit) business is to make money. If they can pay a developer that is worth $120K only $75K, then they most likely will! The employ_ee_ has the responsibility to make sure they are getting paid what they are worth. If you are worth it, the company already knows this and you will likely get the raise. If not, you will not get the raise. It is usually just that simple. A common BS response to be prepared for: Nobody else here [at that level] gets paid that much.Not your problem - you are not the same as everyone else thereShould it come down to it, you would be surprised how much incentive another offer of employment can have on your current compensation... It really helps to put things in perspective to realize how much you are really worth, especially when your current employer matches or even beats the offer. Remember: a software company generally**IS**its developers. All of a software company's business starts and ends with its development staff. Without them, there is nothing for Marketing to sell, nothing for QA to test, nothing for PMs to manage... no company for the Executive Staff to run. Peace!-=- James
Please rate this message - let me know if I helped or not! * * *If you think it costs a lot to do it right, just wait until you find out how much it costs to do it wrong!
Avoid driving a vehicle taller than you and remember that Professional Driver on Closed Course does not mean your Dumb Ass on a Public Road!
See DeleteFXPFilesJames R. Twine wrote:
Nobody else here [at that level] gets paid that much.
True
James R. Twine wrote:
Remember: a software company generally IS its developers. All of a software company's business starts and ends with its development staff. Without them, there is nothing for Marketing to sell, nothing for QA to test, nothing for PMs to manage... no company for the Executive Staff to run.
I will
S o h a i l K a d i w a l a
To Err Is Human; to Debug, Divine -
How does one approach your boss for a pay-raise? I'm asking for a friend, he's a programmer and feels he's underpaid.
"you can't forget something you never knew..." M. Du Toit
"Watching Migthy Joe Young made me hate my life..................................I want a gorilla!" A. Havemannevilnoodle wrote:
How does one approach your boss for a pay-raise?
:confused: What is this "pay raise" of which you speak?
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evilnoodle wrote:
How does one approach your boss for a pay-raise?
:confused: What is this "pay raise" of which you speak?
It's in the same category of things as early-60s sitcoms with mice running around and women standing on chairs.
Upcoming events: * Glasgow Geek Dinner (5th March) * Glasgow: Tell us what you want to see in 2007 My: Website | Blog | Photos
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V. wrote:
an employer will always try to have a minimum cost for maximum labour...
You're partially right. Maybe you should rephrase that as "an employer will often try to have a total minimum cost for total maximum labour". Sometimes, this means a lot of stupid people working with the lowest salaries possible. Sometimes, this means a small group of highly qualified people working with the biggest salaries possible, so I don't lose them. On a lot of companies, even on the service industry, the payroll is not the biggest expense, so often it makes sense to pay a lot to make sure you can create morale, experience, and reduce turn-over.
Daniel Turini wrote:
the payroll is not the biggest expense
It is in Belgium.
V.
Stop smoking so you can: Enjoy longer the money you save. Moviereview Archive -
Well, "I need a raise because otherwise I can't pay the rent and my landlord will kick me out, then I can't actually come to work for you" might work. Having said that, I doubt that many programmers are on subsistence income and marginal enough that a small increase in rent will push them over the edge. The housing market in this country is currently awash with idiots trying to become private landlords, which is pushing property prices up if you're trying to buy, but a glut of property available to rent, so rental prices are barely moving. I've just renewed my contract for another six months, and the price I'm paying hasn't changed since I moved in two years ago. A friend's rent has increased I think about 3% in five years, and I think that's because the agent increased their fee.
Stability. What an interesting concept. -- Chris Maunder
Lucky you, try THIS country! My rent increases 6.6% a year! And that's because the owner is a greedy old lady! :mad:
"you can't forget something you never knew..." M. Du Toit
"Watching Migthy Joe Young made me hate my life..................................I want a gorilla!" A. Havemann -
Lucky you, try THIS country! My rent increases 6.6% a year! And that's because the owner is a greedy old lady! :mad:
"you can't forget something you never knew..." M. Du Toit
"Watching Migthy Joe Young made me hate my life..................................I want a gorilla!" A. HavemannObviously the market can accept that kind of an increase.
Upcoming events: * Glasgow Geek Dinner (5th March) * Glasgow: Tell us what you want to see in 2007 My: Website | Blog | Photos
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Vasudevan Deepak Kumar wrote:
When there is a good performance of the employee, I think, any employer is obliged to reward him. Isn't it?
Hell No!The job of a (for-profit) business is to make money. If they can pay a developer that is worth $120K only $75K, then they most likely will! The employ_ee_ has the responsibility to make sure they are getting paid what they are worth. If you are worth it, the company already knows this and you will likely get the raise. If not, you will not get the raise. It is usually just that simple. A common BS response to be prepared for: Nobody else here [at that level] gets paid that much.Not your problem - you are not the same as everyone else thereShould it come down to it, you would be surprised how much incentive another offer of employment can have on your current compensation... It really helps to put things in perspective to realize how much you are really worth, especially when your current employer matches or even beats the offer. Remember: a software company generally**IS**its developers. All of a software company's business starts and ends with its development staff. Without them, there is nothing for Marketing to sell, nothing for QA to test, nothing for PMs to manage... no company for the Executive Staff to run. Peace!-=- James
Please rate this message - let me know if I helped or not! * * *If you think it costs a lot to do it right, just wait until you find out how much it costs to do it wrong!
Avoid driving a vehicle taller than you and remember that Professional Driver on Closed Course does not mean your Dumb Ass on a Public Road!
See DeleteFXPFilesJames R. Twine wrote:
Without them [developers], there is nothing for Marketing to sell
When has that ever stopped a marketing person before. :confused:
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When there is a good performance of the employee, I think, any employer is obliged to reward him. Isn't it?
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar Personal Homepage Tech Gossips
They should but in reality, it is ofen not the case. Outsourcing to the lowest bid is an obvious clue they are not interested in the employee, just the lowest cost they can muster. Often is cited as lowering cost to be competive, but usually the never lower the price of their services or products, just increase their profits out of greed.
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: SQL Server Express Warnings & Tips Latest Tech Blog Post: Scratch: fun for all ages for free!
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They should but in reality, it is ofen not the case. Outsourcing to the lowest bid is an obvious clue they are not interested in the employee, just the lowest cost they can muster. Often is cited as lowering cost to be competive, but usually the never lower the price of their services or products, just increase their profits out of greed.
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: SQL Server Express Warnings & Tips Latest Tech Blog Post: Scratch: fun for all ages for free!
Did you ever consider that the way health care costs are soaring all the money saved by outsourcing development is likely to be consumed by increases in the cost of insurance for the remaining employees, leaving nothing left to drop the price?
-- Rules of thumb should not be taken for the whole hand.