Anyone else think Vista is a buggy piece of crap?!
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I've been using Vista since RC2 last August and installed the "release" version back in November. I kinda kept quiet until the official consumer launch as I know how hard it is to ship good code on a tight deadline. Launch day came last week and low-and-behold 6 updates announced themselves, which I quickly installed in the hope that they had finally fixed all those annoying problems ready for the paying public to get their hands on Vista. The results: my HD soundcard stopped working after the reboot. Several tries to reinstall using the manufacturer's drivers failed. Finally I resorted to using the "generic" Microsoft driver, which now works, sort of, but as soon as I do the slightest bit of work, the audio starts to crackle. Office 2007 now reports that it is trying to install new software every time I boot it up, but never does!! I still get the obligatory soft-crash of explorer and other non-essential Microsoft service every 30 minutes. I've turned off DEP to try and stop this happening, but no luck. Interestingly, they've fixed the problem that caused Windows Error Reporting to crash which I used to find quite amusing. Now I'm not exactly an amateur at these thing and can generally find a workaround to keep working, but if I was joe-public I would be pretty pissed. Just wondering when the consumer backlash will begin …
All the complaints I've heard come from people installing Vista on PCs. I recommend going Macbook pro ;p. The only problem I've really had so far was a REFERENCE_BY_POINTER BSOD that has maybe happened 4x since I got my Macbook pro back in mid-December (happened during login, so it didn't interrupt normal work flow so-to-speak ;) ) Other than that little thing, I'm loving Vista as much as my old OS, Win2k. XP can choke on it IMO >_> And if you do install Vista on your Macbook. Allocate more than 30gbs (especially if your a programmer with a large tool collection) for Vista on your HDD. Someone tried telling me 20gb was enough...pffft. Not for a laptop.
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Never. I know that. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a MS-basher by any means, but I've just had to clear off 3Gb of error reports from my Hard Drive still waiting to be delivered to Microsoft for "analysis". I just think that when the novelty wears off (like it has for me) with the semi-transparent screens, gadget and such-what, people will be asking why they upgraded to a product that doesn't provide much more useful functionality than what they used to have, crashes more often, and generally runs slower. Am I the only one thinking this?
stano wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a MS-basher by any means
Really, it seems everything you have said in this thread says otherwise.
stano wrote:
I just think that when the novelty wears off (like it has for me) with the semi-transparent screens, gadget and such-what, people will be asking why they upgraded to a product that doesn't provide much more useful functionality than what they used to have, crashes more often, and generally runs slower.
I run Vista on both machines that run the "novelty stuff" as you call it and machines that do not. (BTW if an updated UI isn't important to end-users why aren't we still on text only consoles?). I have not had any slow downs, some machines work better. I have had one crash in the release version... it was caused by a non-microsoft driver. Whenever I let non-techies use my computer, I always hear oh wow thats cool, I didn't know you could do that, and so on and I'm not even providing input to them (ie not showing them features etc).
Matt Newman
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Vista has problems just like any new software. It's too early, however, to condemn it, and write it off as a total loss.
-------------------------------- "All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke
Richie308 wrote:
Vista has problems just like any new software.
That's a very interesting attitude, one I see expressed by many people. Can you care to explain the rationale behind the general acceptance of buggy software? Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smith -
I've been using Vista since RC2 last August and installed the "release" version back in November. I kinda kept quiet until the official consumer launch as I know how hard it is to ship good code on a tight deadline. Launch day came last week and low-and-behold 6 updates announced themselves, which I quickly installed in the hope that they had finally fixed all those annoying problems ready for the paying public to get their hands on Vista. The results: my HD soundcard stopped working after the reboot. Several tries to reinstall using the manufacturer's drivers failed. Finally I resorted to using the "generic" Microsoft driver, which now works, sort of, but as soon as I do the slightest bit of work, the audio starts to crackle. Office 2007 now reports that it is trying to install new software every time I boot it up, but never does!! I still get the obligatory soft-crash of explorer and other non-essential Microsoft service every 30 minutes. I've turned off DEP to try and stop this happening, but no luck. Interestingly, they've fixed the problem that caused Windows Error Reporting to crash which I used to find quite amusing. Now I'm not exactly an amateur at these thing and can generally find a workaround to keep working, but if I was joe-public I would be pretty pissed. Just wondering when the consumer backlash will begin …
If you look back you can find identical rants for every windows OS since at least 95, the win31 release was before my time but I suspect the record continues back. With the sole exception of ME everyone of them was eventually accepted by the majority of power users in relatively short order. Joe Luser in consumer land almost always took whatever came with his machine from Big Box Mart and used it as is making even ME a commercial success.
-- Rules of thumb should not be taken for the whole hand.
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stano wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a MS-basher by any means
Really, it seems everything you have said in this thread says otherwise.
stano wrote:
I just think that when the novelty wears off (like it has for me) with the semi-transparent screens, gadget and such-what, people will be asking why they upgraded to a product that doesn't provide much more useful functionality than what they used to have, crashes more often, and generally runs slower.
I run Vista on both machines that run the "novelty stuff" as you call it and machines that do not. (BTW if an updated UI isn't important to end-users why aren't we still on text only consoles?). I have not had any slow downs, some machines work better. I have had one crash in the release version... it was caused by a non-microsoft driver. Whenever I let non-techies use my computer, I always hear oh wow thats cool, I didn't know you could do that, and so on and I'm not even providing input to them (ie not showing them features etc).
Matt Newman
I can understand the non-Microsoft drivers, which is out of Microsoft's control, I haven't mentioned the problems I've had there. But since I cleared our my error reporting logs yesterday, I've had: 10 crashed of Exporer, 3 crashes on the IP Helper service (which seems related to the Microsoft PPTP VPN utility), BITS has crashed once, as has Windows Defender! This never used to happen on XP. Yes it recovers for the most part, but I don't think this was ready for release. They skipped RC3 and I think they will have to pay the price.
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You should have been thinking that "before" you made the switch :D
Todd Smith
It seems few can see past the semi-transparent screens, gadget and such-what to think that far ahead.
"Approved Workmen Are Not Ashamed" - 2 Timothy 2:15
"Judge not by the eye but by the heart." - Native American Proverb
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Not writing it off as a loss, as there isn't an alternative. I just think that there will be a huge back-lash from people who have paid to upgrade it. I just wanted to see if anyone else was having problems with it.
stano wrote:
...there isn't an alternative.
I can quickly think of three.
"Approved Workmen Are Not Ashamed" - 2 Timothy 2:15
"Judge not by the eye but by the heart." - Native American Proverb
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I've been using Vista since RC2 last August and installed the "release" version back in November. I kinda kept quiet until the official consumer launch as I know how hard it is to ship good code on a tight deadline. Launch day came last week and low-and-behold 6 updates announced themselves, which I quickly installed in the hope that they had finally fixed all those annoying problems ready for the paying public to get their hands on Vista. The results: my HD soundcard stopped working after the reboot. Several tries to reinstall using the manufacturer's drivers failed. Finally I resorted to using the "generic" Microsoft driver, which now works, sort of, but as soon as I do the slightest bit of work, the audio starts to crackle. Office 2007 now reports that it is trying to install new software every time I boot it up, but never does!! I still get the obligatory soft-crash of explorer and other non-essential Microsoft service every 30 minutes. I've turned off DEP to try and stop this happening, but no luck. Interestingly, they've fixed the problem that caused Windows Error Reporting to crash which I used to find quite amusing. Now I'm not exactly an amateur at these thing and can generally find a workaround to keep working, but if I was joe-public I would be pretty pissed. Just wondering when the consumer backlash will begin …
stano wrote:
The results: my HD soundcard stopped working after the reboot. Several tries to reinstall using the manufacturer's drivers failed.
Did you dismiss the possibility that it could be the manufacturer's fault and not Microsoft's?
stano wrote:
Finally I resorted to using the "generic" Microsoft driver, which now works, sort of, but as soon as I do the slightest bit of work, the audio starts to crackle.
Could it be that the hardware is not compatible with the OS?
"Approved Workmen Are Not Ashamed" - 2 Timothy 2:15
"Judge not by the eye but by the heart." - Native American Proverb
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stano wrote:
...there isn't an alternative.
I can quickly think of three.
"Approved Workmen Are Not Ashamed" - 2 Timothy 2:15
"Judge not by the eye but by the heart." - Native American Proverb
Not for me. I may think it's a buggy piece of crap and was released to market too early, but we've already integrated glass in to our apps (keeps the investors happy :rolleyes:) , and are now working on using the Vista crash recover API (keeps the testers edgy) for those poor soles that take the plunge and upgrade. In this game, if you're not moving forward, you're moving backwards.
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stano wrote:
The results: my HD soundcard stopped working after the reboot. Several tries to reinstall using the manufacturer's drivers failed.
Did you dismiss the possibility that it could be the manufacturer's fault and not Microsoft's?
stano wrote:
Finally I resorted to using the "generic" Microsoft driver, which now works, sort of, but as soon as I do the slightest bit of work, the audio starts to crackle.
Could it be that the hardware is not compatible with the OS?
"Approved Workmen Are Not Ashamed" - 2 Timothy 2:15
"Judge not by the eye but by the heart." - Native American Proverb
Other that the fact that it worked fine from RC2 back in August 2006 to the January 27th Microsoft Service Pack upgrade, and then stopped working after the reboot. No doubt the DRM crap has something to do with it. Still that doesn't explain the numerous crashes of non-driver related software.
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It seems few can see past the semi-transparent screens, gadget and such-what to think that far ahead.
"Approved Workmen Are Not Ashamed" - 2 Timothy 2:15
"Judge not by the eye but by the heart." - Native American Proverb
There's a bit of Homer is all of us. Mmmm gadgets....DOH
Todd Smith
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I've been using Vista since RC2 last August and installed the "release" version back in November. I kinda kept quiet until the official consumer launch as I know how hard it is to ship good code on a tight deadline. Launch day came last week and low-and-behold 6 updates announced themselves, which I quickly installed in the hope that they had finally fixed all those annoying problems ready for the paying public to get their hands on Vista. The results: my HD soundcard stopped working after the reboot. Several tries to reinstall using the manufacturer's drivers failed. Finally I resorted to using the "generic" Microsoft driver, which now works, sort of, but as soon as I do the slightest bit of work, the audio starts to crackle. Office 2007 now reports that it is trying to install new software every time I boot it up, but never does!! I still get the obligatory soft-crash of explorer and other non-essential Microsoft service every 30 minutes. I've turned off DEP to try and stop this happening, but no luck. Interestingly, they've fixed the problem that caused Windows Error Reporting to crash which I used to find quite amusing. Now I'm not exactly an amateur at these thing and can generally find a workaround to keep working, but if I was joe-public I would be pretty pissed. Just wondering when the consumer backlash will begin …
I just bought a new PC with AMD 64 and 2 GB RAM, it cames with Vista Home Premium , so far i have installed all the studios and servers etc . i am finding it quite neat , i had very short lived experience with beta version though. I am finding it quite cool. Have experinced some bugs in IE 7.0 , other than that its fine
Omit Needless Words - Strunk, William, Jr.
Dilbert ? Vista ? DailyDilbert Gadget here
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Richie308 wrote:
Vista has problems just like any new software.
That's a very interesting attitude, one I see expressed by many people. Can you care to explain the rationale behind the general acceptance of buggy software? Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithMarc Clifton wrote:
Can you care to explain the rationale behind the general acceptance of buggy software?
It has always been so, it will always be so? :~
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I can understand the non-Microsoft drivers, which is out of Microsoft's control, I haven't mentioned the problems I've had there. But since I cleared our my error reporting logs yesterday, I've had: 10 crashed of Exporer, 3 crashes on the IP Helper service (which seems related to the Microsoft PPTP VPN utility), BITS has crashed once, as has Windows Defender! This never used to happen on XP. Yes it recovers for the most part, but I don't think this was ready for release. They skipped RC3 and I think they will have to pay the price.
Are you overclocked? (if you didn't build the machine yourself, DO check the BIOS.)
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I can understand the non-Microsoft drivers, which is out of Microsoft's control, I haven't mentioned the problems I've had there. But since I cleared our my error reporting logs yesterday, I've had: 10 crashed of Exporer, 3 crashes on the IP Helper service (which seems related to the Microsoft PPTP VPN utility), BITS has crashed once, as has Windows Defender! This never used to happen on XP. Yes it recovers for the most part, but I don't think this was ready for release. They skipped RC3 and I think they will have to pay the price.
My point was that I have had NONE of the problems you mentioned on Vista. I have seen that type of behaviour on XP systems with faulty hardware. I have five machines with vastly different hardware all running flawlessly (except the occasional 3rd party driver or software), maybe before you blame the software you investigate further.
Matt Newman
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I've been using Vista since RC2 last August and installed the "release" version back in November. I kinda kept quiet until the official consumer launch as I know how hard it is to ship good code on a tight deadline. Launch day came last week and low-and-behold 6 updates announced themselves, which I quickly installed in the hope that they had finally fixed all those annoying problems ready for the paying public to get their hands on Vista. The results: my HD soundcard stopped working after the reboot. Several tries to reinstall using the manufacturer's drivers failed. Finally I resorted to using the "generic" Microsoft driver, which now works, sort of, but as soon as I do the slightest bit of work, the audio starts to crackle. Office 2007 now reports that it is trying to install new software every time I boot it up, but never does!! I still get the obligatory soft-crash of explorer and other non-essential Microsoft service every 30 minutes. I've turned off DEP to try and stop this happening, but no luck. Interestingly, they've fixed the problem that caused Windows Error Reporting to crash which I used to find quite amusing. Now I'm not exactly an amateur at these thing and can generally find a workaround to keep working, but if I was joe-public I would be pretty pissed. Just wondering when the consumer backlash will begin …
Have you checked your motherboard and RAM? Could be a long shot but maybe you're having hardware issues.
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
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Have you checked your motherboard and RAM? Could be a long shot but maybe you're having hardware issues.
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
Computer is a Samsung X60 laptop without any modifications. As I mentioned the crashes I am experiencing are soft crashes. Visual Studio continues to run without problems, even during a long build it is not effected by the restart of Explorer. It just seems bugy as hell.
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My point was that I have had NONE of the problems you mentioned on Vista. I have seen that type of behaviour on XP systems with faulty hardware. I have five machines with vastly different hardware all running flawlessly (except the occasional 3rd party driver or software), maybe before you blame the software you investigate further.
Matt Newman
Hardware is a Samsumg X60 laptop without any modifications. Worked fine on XP. Hardware hasn't changed. Other apps do not exhibit any problems and continue to run flawlessly while Vista apps such as Explorer are restarting all around it. As I said, these are soft crashes, not BSOD problems, which I would put down to faulty hardware. I just think Vista was released too early.
