Clueless recruiters
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Although tech recruiting companies have been my life blood for over a decade, it continually amazes me how many of these folks are just plain clueless in how they approach programmers. Here's some of my favorites.
- My resume & job postings say I won't relocate. I continually get job queries for out of town.
- Poor communication skills. If you can't correspond in a professional manner, how professionally are you going to represent me?
- Mismatched tech skills. Exactly where on my resume do you see the words Java / UNIX / Oracle? So why are you asking me about such a position?
- Punctuality. If you wait three days to return a phone call or email, how do I know that my paychecks won't arrive in a similar haphazard manner?
These are just a few of my favorites. I could go on, but I don't want to hog the platform. :) What are your favorite Clueless Recruiter attributes?
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
One of my favourites was an ad for VB on Unix. I suppose it can be done with emulators, but who in their right mind would ? Something I find very disturbing is recruiters describing jobs as Sexy. Unfortunately, recruiters (scum of the earth) are really just salesmen & women, and if they process enough numbers, they will eventually find a pay-cheque.
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Although tech recruiting companies have been my life blood for over a decade, it continually amazes me how many of these folks are just plain clueless in how they approach programmers. Here's some of my favorites.
- My resume & job postings say I won't relocate. I continually get job queries for out of town.
- Poor communication skills. If you can't correspond in a professional manner, how professionally are you going to represent me?
- Mismatched tech skills. Exactly where on my resume do you see the words Java / UNIX / Oracle? So why are you asking me about such a position?
- Punctuality. If you wait three days to return a phone call or email, how do I know that my paychecks won't arrive in a similar haphazard manner?
These are just a few of my favorites. I could go on, but I don't want to hog the platform. :) What are your favorite Clueless Recruiter attributes?
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
Here's what I've often experienced in the UK when using such companies to recruit on this side of the pond. a) Many 'IT recruitment consultants' hardly know anything about the industry, other than a few buzz words here and there. So you try and explain your perhaps specific requirements and they go 'yeah - I've got just the person you're looking for' and guess what - it's not even a remotely close match. b) I reckon a lot of the more knowledgeable 'IT recruitment consultants' are actually techies who the relevant recruitment company have consistently failed to place, but to the ears of the 'very knowledgeable' (!) recruitment consultant they are talking to, sound brilliant and eventually get offered a job in recruitment. So you enter a vicious circle of stupidness in these organizations. (It's a theory - but I don't think it's that far from the truth!) c) And then there's the fact that they are really just commission based salespeople at the end of the day (and not very good at it either). So all they can do is churn out irrelevant resumes to companies looking to recruit which is very, very frustrating (and I tend not to use the company too much longer!)
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Although tech recruiting companies have been my life blood for over a decade, it continually amazes me how many of these folks are just plain clueless in how they approach programmers. Here's some of my favorites.
- My resume & job postings say I won't relocate. I continually get job queries for out of town.
- Poor communication skills. If you can't correspond in a professional manner, how professionally are you going to represent me?
- Mismatched tech skills. Exactly where on my resume do you see the words Java / UNIX / Oracle? So why are you asking me about such a position?
- Punctuality. If you wait three days to return a phone call or email, how do I know that my paychecks won't arrive in a similar haphazard manner?
These are just a few of my favorites. I could go on, but I don't want to hog the platform. :) What are your favorite Clueless Recruiter attributes?
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
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Although tech recruiting companies have been my life blood for over a decade, it continually amazes me how many of these folks are just plain clueless in how they approach programmers. Here's some of my favorites.
- My resume & job postings say I won't relocate. I continually get job queries for out of town.
- Poor communication skills. If you can't correspond in a professional manner, how professionally are you going to represent me?
- Mismatched tech skills. Exactly where on my resume do you see the words Java / UNIX / Oracle? So why are you asking me about such a position?
- Punctuality. If you wait three days to return a phone call or email, how do I know that my paychecks won't arrive in a similar haphazard manner?
These are just a few of my favorites. I could go on, but I don't want to hog the platform. :) What are your favorite Clueless Recruiter attributes?
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
Back in 1998, I was a consultant. Once I received an email from a recruiter having found the perfect job matching my skills. He wanted my phone number to call me ASAP. I gave him my phone number and this is our phone conversation: [Recruiter] "Hi Dan, this is {recruiter name} from {company}. I have the perfect job matching your skills!" [Me] "Can you tell me what skills you are looking for?" (I have many skills; I love writing C++ code, and also capable to lead a project) [Recruiter] "Well... your skills..." [Me] "Have you read my resume?" Then there was a long heavy silence. I could feel over the phone the guy was embarassed, because I am sure he never looked at my resume. My skills are written at the top of my resume. The silence lasted a full 12 seconds (my phone has a timer on it). Then, the recruiter told me about job benefits with the opportunity to contact him if I want further information about the job. The entire call lasted 38 seconds. [About Spam] I think I am now receiving spam from recruiters. I run my own business and currently hiring, yet I receive offers for "my perfect job". I receive about one job offer per month. This is the last offer I got. Nowhere in my resume suggests I am interested or skilled in UNIX. All I have is some experience in UNIX. What is more interesting is this spammer recruiter is asking me what job I am looking for. If this guy spent one minute on my resume, he would know I just released GenoPro 2007 (www.genopro.com[^]) a few weeks ago.
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 4:21 PM Subject: Great Resume Hi Daniel I would like to learn about what you are looking for. It is highly likely I can help you get what you want. I see you’re skilled in both C/C++ and UNIX. We are very interested in that combination as well as your experience in codes and multi-threading. Core Search Group, est. 1999, Specializes in connecting the top infrastructure software engineers in the world with the companies that provide the environment and tools you need to innovate. We are working with a number of companies now who would find your experience very attractive. I’m sure you’ve had the experience of working with recruiters who aren’t interested in you as a person. Please give us a try so you can see how our methodology is different. We start with discovering what you want and then work t -
Although tech recruiting companies have been my life blood for over a decade, it continually amazes me how many of these folks are just plain clueless in how they approach programmers. Here's some of my favorites.
- My resume & job postings say I won't relocate. I continually get job queries for out of town.
- Poor communication skills. If you can't correspond in a professional manner, how professionally are you going to represent me?
- Mismatched tech skills. Exactly where on my resume do you see the words Java / UNIX / Oracle? So why are you asking me about such a position?
- Punctuality. If you wait three days to return a phone call or email, how do I know that my paychecks won't arrive in a similar haphazard manner?
These are just a few of my favorites. I could go on, but I don't want to hog the platform. :) What are your favorite Clueless Recruiter attributes?
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
Christopher Duncan wrote:
My resume & job postings say I won't relocate. I continually get job queries for out of town.
Same thing here. I thought it was just me. :-D
Christopher Duncan wrote:
Poor communication skills. If you can't correspond in a professional manner, how professionally are you going to represent me?
My wife answers the phone, not me. She weeds out the ones that have a heavy accent. I refuse to deal with people that I can't understand. I can deal with accents, but do not expect me to take a language course to talk to you on the phone.
Christopher Duncan wrote:
Mismatched tech skills. Exactly where on my resume do you see the words Java / UNIX / Oracle? So why are you asking me about such a position?
This also happens all the time. In fact, I'm dealing with it right now. A headhunter that I dealt with in the past called me about a position that he is working on with another headhunter from another company. So, he tells me about the position, and I told him to go ahead and submit me. The other guy calls and we talk about the position, and it has absolutely NOTHING to do with my skill set. He even misled the other headhunter to get my contact info.
Christopher Duncan wrote:
Punctuality. If you wait three days to return a phone call or email, how do I know that my paychecks won't arrive in a similar haphazard manner?
That's usually a dead giveaway that it's not a real position, and they are simply harvesting contacts.
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Point 2 which you raised is the second best one ever. I get tons of job offers in my email, and most are Java. But, my favourite would be cluelessness to the point of 'do you have 5 years of WPF and 10 years of C#' ???
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Christian Graus wrote:
and 10 years of C#' ???
Yeah, back in 2002 (through 2004) I was looking for work (after fifteen years of C on OpenVMS), but the C# ads all said they wanted a minimum of two years professional experience. Well, gee, I had read the first spec of C# in 1999, shouldn't that count for something? * The only work available on OpenVMS at the time was in COBOL!
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Back in 1998, I was a consultant. Once I received an email from a recruiter having found the perfect job matching my skills. He wanted my phone number to call me ASAP. I gave him my phone number and this is our phone conversation: [Recruiter] "Hi Dan, this is {recruiter name} from {company}. I have the perfect job matching your skills!" [Me] "Can you tell me what skills you are looking for?" (I have many skills; I love writing C++ code, and also capable to lead a project) [Recruiter] "Well... your skills..." [Me] "Have you read my resume?" Then there was a long heavy silence. I could feel over the phone the guy was embarassed, because I am sure he never looked at my resume. My skills are written at the top of my resume. The silence lasted a full 12 seconds (my phone has a timer on it). Then, the recruiter told me about job benefits with the opportunity to contact him if I want further information about the job. The entire call lasted 38 seconds. [About Spam] I think I am now receiving spam from recruiters. I run my own business and currently hiring, yet I receive offers for "my perfect job". I receive about one job offer per month. This is the last offer I got. Nowhere in my resume suggests I am interested or skilled in UNIX. All I have is some experience in UNIX. What is more interesting is this spammer recruiter is asking me what job I am looking for. If this guy spent one minute on my resume, he would know I just released GenoPro 2007 (www.genopro.com[^]) a few weeks ago.
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 4:21 PM Subject: Great Resume Hi Daniel I would like to learn about what you are looking for. It is highly likely I can help you get what you want. I see you’re skilled in both C/C++ and UNIX. We are very interested in that combination as well as your experience in codes and multi-threading. Core Search Group, est. 1999, Specializes in connecting the top infrastructure software engineers in the world with the companies that provide the environment and tools you need to innovate. We are working with a number of companies now who would find your experience very attractive. I’m sure you’ve had the experience of working with recruiters who aren’t interested in you as a person. Please give us a try so you can see how our methodology is different. We start with discovering what you want and then work tDude, I get about 20 of those per day... how did you escape the torture for so long? I usually respond with broken english and try to sell them something. Although... once I did get a phone call after doing that. Had a nice conversation with the person and she has hope for the future now. I no longer work with recruiters who call me out of the blue.
"Quality Software since 1983!"
http://www.smoothjazzy.com/ - see the "Programming" section for freeware tools and articles. -
Christian Graus wrote:
I get tons of job offers in my email, and most are Java.
i get tons of job offers by email, too. most of them are for unspecified work i can do at home.
image processing toolkits | batch image processing | blogging
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
My resume & job postings say I won't relocate. I continually get job queries for out of town.
Same thing here. I thought it was just me. :-D
Christopher Duncan wrote:
Poor communication skills. If you can't correspond in a professional manner, how professionally are you going to represent me?
My wife answers the phone, not me. She weeds out the ones that have a heavy accent. I refuse to deal with people that I can't understand. I can deal with accents, but do not expect me to take a language course to talk to you on the phone.
Christopher Duncan wrote:
Mismatched tech skills. Exactly where on my resume do you see the words Java / UNIX / Oracle? So why are you asking me about such a position?
This also happens all the time. In fact, I'm dealing with it right now. A headhunter that I dealt with in the past called me about a position that he is working on with another headhunter from another company. So, he tells me about the position, and I told him to go ahead and submit me. The other guy calls and we talk about the position, and it has absolutely NOTHING to do with my skill set. He even misled the other headhunter to get my contact info.
Christopher Duncan wrote:
Punctuality. If you wait three days to return a phone call or email, how do I know that my paychecks won't arrive in a similar haphazard manner?
That's usually a dead giveaway that it's not a real position, and they are simply harvesting contacts.
Christopher Duncan wrote:
4. They give as a reason for rejecting you after interview that you do not have adequate experience in skill X when you admitted prior to interview that you didn’t.
Yeah, that one has happened a few times:mad: I am in the middle of looking for a job myself, what I can't stand is how recruiters are to wussy to tell you after your interviews, when you haven't got the job.:sigh:
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Chris Losinger wrote:
i get tons of job offers by email, too. most of them are for unspecified work i can do at home.
Let me guess - potentially UNLIMITED opportunities? :)
yeah! they say i can be my own boss! sounds freakin awesome!
image processing toolkits | batch image processing | blogging
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Although tech recruiting companies have been my life blood for over a decade, it continually amazes me how many of these folks are just plain clueless in how they approach programmers. Here's some of my favorites.
- My resume & job postings say I won't relocate. I continually get job queries for out of town.
- Poor communication skills. If you can't correspond in a professional manner, how professionally are you going to represent me?
- Mismatched tech skills. Exactly where on my resume do you see the words Java / UNIX / Oracle? So why are you asking me about such a position?
- Punctuality. If you wait three days to return a phone call or email, how do I know that my paychecks won't arrive in a similar haphazard manner?
These are just a few of my favorites. I could go on, but I don't want to hog the platform. :) What are your favorite Clueless Recruiter attributes?
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
I remmeber the time I was recruited to change an existing website (coporate) into SOAP. That was pretty much the job description "Convert our current corporate intranet site into a SOAP site". There was of course the usual crayon drawings and such but it only occured to me that the employer didn't know what SOAP was when he asked what language it was written in.
Brad Australian - Christian Graus on "Best books for VBscript" A big thick one, so you can whack yourself on the head with it.
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
4. They give as a reason for rejecting you after interview that you do not have adequate experience in skill X when you admitted prior to interview that you didn’t.
Yeah, that one has happened a few times:mad: I am in the middle of looking for a job myself, what I can't stand is how recruiters are to wussy to tell you after your interviews, when you haven't got the job.:sigh:
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I've had my fair share of them. Some of the "offers" I even show to my manager to spread the humour. The best one I had is one Company in the Texas, USA wanted to hire me for a lead developer. I told the Recruiter my wife and I did not want to relocate to the states. HOwever, if the company wanted to relocate to Kamloops, BC I would consider it. The recruiter told me he'd get back in touch. (I couldn't believe he said that after I told him what I already did). I get a phone call back a few days later from the same recruiter, he told me the company didn't have any plans to relocate to Kamloops. Would I still be interested in moving to Texas? Again, I told him I'd only consider it if they moved their entire company to Kamloops.... Again he told me he'd get back in touch with me. A few weeks later I got another call from him saying they declined the offer for me to purchase their company and move it to Kamloops... I was scared... I thought I was in the Twilight zone...
MrBic wrote:
Again he told me he'd get back in touch with me.
As if the first time wasn't enough.
MrBic wrote:
A few weeks later I got another call from him saying they declined the offer for me to purchase their company and move it to Kamloops...
ROFL! What the hell was he telling them? That's my beef with recruiters, you don't know what is actually happening in discussions. My last experience I was pushing for three weeks vacation to start. I'm not sure that they ever truly asked for it though.
Ware Programmers are tools to convert caffiene to code.
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Unlike medical conditions, good news travels fast. I have NEVER been offered a job that took more than 48 hrs to respond. Most of the positive answers happen within hours of the interview.
ednrgc wrote:
nlike medical conditions, good news travels fast. I have NEVER been offered a job that took more than 48 hrs to respond. Most of the positive answers happen within hours of the interview.
Well at the end of the interview the interviewing panel said that they would notify the recruiter by the end of the week. I just think that they should have the common courtesy to inform you a) that you haven't got the job and b) any reasons supplied by the interviews that can be used to improve your interview technique the next time.
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ednrgc wrote:
nlike medical conditions, good news travels fast. I have NEVER been offered a job that took more than 48 hrs to respond. Most of the positive answers happen within hours of the interview.
Well at the end of the interview the interviewing panel said that they would notify the recruiter by the end of the week. I just think that they should have the common courtesy to inform you a) that you haven't got the job and b) any reasons supplied by the interviews that can be used to improve your interview technique the next time.
Stone Free wrote:
I just think that they should have the common courtesy to inform you a) that you haven't got the job
Actually, it's not their job to call all firms that submitted people for that position. The firms should follow up on a regular basis until they are informed that the position has been filled.
Stone Free wrote:
b) any reasons supplied by the interviews that can be used to improve your interview technique the next time.
A big part of the interview process is a general conversation, body language, etc. These attributes are just as important as technical knowledge. Taking the initiative to learn the interview process yourself will come into play in the interview. I can pinpoint people who have been coached within the first 5 questions. Once I am suspicious about the candidate being coached, I push to break through the coaching and get to the real person behind the coaching. The candidates that make it passed that point are the ones that know how to take an interview and let their personality show through. You can make a decent impression in a short period of time.
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Stone Free wrote:
I just think that they should have the common courtesy to inform you a) that you haven't got the job
Actually, it's not their job to call all firms that submitted people for that position. The firms should follow up on a regular basis until they are informed that the position has been filled.
Stone Free wrote:
b) any reasons supplied by the interviews that can be used to improve your interview technique the next time.
A big part of the interview process is a general conversation, body language, etc. These attributes are just as important as technical knowledge. Taking the initiative to learn the interview process yourself will come into play in the interview. I can pinpoint people who have been coached within the first 5 questions. Once I am suspicious about the candidate being coached, I push to break through the coaching and get to the real person behind the coaching. The candidates that make it passed that point are the ones that know how to take an interview and let their personality show through. You can make a decent impression in a short period of time.
ednrgc wrote:
Stone Free wrote: I just think that they should have the common courtesy to inform you a) that you haven't got the job. Actually, it's not their job to call all firms that submitted people for that position. The firms should follow up on a regular basis until they are informed that the position has been filled.
Sorry, I don't think you have understood what I am saying. I mean the recruiter should have told me not the interviewers. The company for which I interviewed will have phoned the recruiter as they said they would. All the recruiter had to do was to relay this message. On a previous occasion the recruiter admitted to me that he had been delaying telling me the bad news. What this really means is that he had no intention of telling me. The only reason I found out was because I phoned him. At least when I found out the answer I knew what had gone wrong, and what I could do to do a better interview next time.
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ednrgc wrote:
Stone Free wrote: I just think that they should have the common courtesy to inform you a) that you haven't got the job. Actually, it's not their job to call all firms that submitted people for that position. The firms should follow up on a regular basis until they are informed that the position has been filled.
Sorry, I don't think you have understood what I am saying. I mean the recruiter should have told me not the interviewers. The company for which I interviewed will have phoned the recruiter as they said they would. All the recruiter had to do was to relay this message. On a previous occasion the recruiter admitted to me that he had been delaying telling me the bad news. What this really means is that he had no intention of telling me. The only reason I found out was because I phoned him. At least when I found out the answer I knew what had gone wrong, and what I could do to do a better interview next time.
One thing that I find works is telling the recruiter to be "straight" with you. They then have a sense that you have been "around the block" a few times, and have extensive experience in the interview process. But, as a rule of thumb, if you haven't recv'd good news within 24-48 hours, it's bad news.
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Chris-Kaiser wrote:
Finally got to you eh? Just a bit ago you had the position of relationship building in response to a similiar post.
Actually, I'm considering putting some courses / seminars together for the recruiting companies to show them how to correct all the mistakes they make when dealing with techies. Relationships work both ways. :)
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
What would also be nice would be a well thought out template to use to respond when they do wierd things. Heh, maybe just a link to your seminars. :)
This statement was never false.