U.S. war ally rips Obama's election bid
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
oilFactotum wrote: we weren't "stabbed in the back" in Vietnam. that is delusional.
Have to disagree with you on this. Delusional is believing we were "stabbed in the back". [modified]
Mike Gaskey wrote:
Kerry's lies and Waler Cronkite's constant drum beating turned the American public and forced us to leave Vietnam, causing the deaths of millions.
Get real! I'm sure the viet cong were glued to their TV's watching Kerry's testimony and listening to Walter Cronkite and becoming filled with a desire to fight for a year or two more until the Americans left:rolleyes:. I know better. They had been fighting for their country for over 30 years at that point. They would be fighting to this day if we had not left.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
the last Democrat with ball got kicked out of the party, Liebermann
You agree that we can't win in Iraq with Bush at the helm, but you think someone who, to this day, defends his failed policy has "balls"? And he deserves to be elected to represent the party that opposes these failed policies? Sorry, that just doesn't make sense. Zell Miller? He's just an R in Dem clothing without the "balls" to actually become a Republican. You really think that if Edward Kennedy had been elected as an R, that he would not be an outcast in that party if he were to espouse his beliefs? I don't think so and neither do you. It's not that these two men have more "balls" than other Democrats, it's just that you like at least some of what they say. This is just an extension of what you have been doing all along - demonizing the opposition.
oilFactotum wrote:
I'm sure the viet cong were glued to their TV's watching Kerry's testimony and listening to Walter Cronkite and becoming filled with a desire to fight for a year or two more until the Americans left
don't be silly. the Cong didn't beat us our own public opinion did, talk to a 'Nam vet and he'll tell you we were winning but were forced to leave early because of public opinion genned up by the likes of Kerry and Cronkite. and again, our leaving too soon caused loss of life in the millions.
oilFactotum wrote:
You agree that we can't win in Iraq with Bush at the helm
I give classes on sarcasm recognition.
oilFactotum wrote:
demonizing the opposition.
calling someone a coward isn't demonizing. a coward is a coward whether he/she is labeled such or not.
Mike The NYT - my leftist brochure. dennisd45: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced dennisd45 (the NAMBLA supporter) wrote: I know exactly what it means. So shut up you mother killing baby raper.
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Richard A. Abbott wrote:
the Australian Prime Minister should be told to keep his nose out of USA internal politics.
I wish he'd keep his nose out of ours
System.IO.Path.IsPathRooted() does not behave as I would expect
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oilFactotum wrote:
So you are saying that Bush lied about the WMD's
no I'm not. I'm saying that congress, Democrats included, plus other nations including the UK / Australia / most of Europe - all believed Iraq had WMD. If you believe different, I suggest you contact your congress person and present a petition that presses for impeachment.
oilFactotum wrote:
No, rather until it was clear that Bush was incapable of victory. He lost the war
So, is the war over? You only lose (read up on Vietnam)if you quit too soon. Right no Bush has the enemy to fight and that enemy is aided and abetted by the press, who have drummed every misstep into American living rooms, the Democrats, who I'll repeat are natural cowards, plus everyother armchair quarterback.
oilFactotum wrote:
the Dems recognize
only recognize a chance to capitalize on a circumstance that can leverage them back into power. nothing more.
Mike The NYT - my leftist brochure. dennisd45: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced dennisd45 (the NAMBLA supporter) wrote: I know exactly what it means. So shut up you mother killing baby raper.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
all believed Iraq had WMD
Only those who were fooled by the intelligence services. As I recall, a high percentage of ordinary people distrusted what they were told. But the government is elected to govern so govern they did although with hindsight, they took the country to war on a false reason. That in itself should have been sufficient reason for the Blair Labour party to be turfed out of office but the main opposition were in disarray.
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To me, on BBCtv he always seems to comes across as authoritative perhaps even arrogant. But then, is that the Aussie in him or do you have other views?
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
But then, is that the Aussie in him or do you have other views?
Im not a fan. He's been in office a long time and up until now has had very little real competition. The opposition (Labor party) have had a string of poor leaders particularly in the last election. Their new leader Kevin Rudd seems quite popular. Johnny loves to put his foot down. We've seen this with the war, industrial relations, the republican movement, his dealings with Aboriginal issues, the 'children overboard" scandal and many many others.
System.IO.Path.IsPathRooted() does not behave as I would expect
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Stan Shannon wrote:
I'm moving to Australia.
Somehow Stan I think you'd be disapointed
System.IO.Path.IsPathRooted() does not behave as I would expect
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It saves thinking.
NSFW: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2740007.stm[^] OK I AM moving to Australia :-D
Farhan Noor Qureshi
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
all believed Iraq had WMD
Only those who were fooled by the intelligence services. As I recall, a high percentage of ordinary people distrusted what they were told. But the government is elected to govern so govern they did although with hindsight, they took the country to war on a false reason. That in itself should have been sufficient reason for the Blair Labour party to be turfed out of office but the main opposition were in disarray.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Only those who were fooled by the intelligence services.
I agree. but. or should I say, BUT - WMDs were not the only reason, just one of them. I also agree that the Iraq War has been prosecuted poorly. I would have much preferred a WWII approach, carpet bombing and the hell with trying to avoid the loss of civilian life - that is why we're having the problems we are having now. With that said, can you imagine the howling had the war been prosecuted ala WWII?
Mike The NYT - my leftist brochure. dennisd45: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced dennisd45 (the NAMBLA supporter) wrote: I know exactly what it means. So shut up you mother killing baby raper.
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Josh, what is the upper age limit for people with desired skills to have automatic approval for residency "down-under"?
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Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Only those who were fooled by the intelligence services.
I agree. but. or should I say, BUT - WMDs were not the only reason, just one of them. I also agree that the Iraq War has been prosecuted poorly. I would have much preferred a WWII approach, carpet bombing and the hell with trying to avoid the loss of civilian life - that is why we're having the problems we are having now. With that said, can you imagine the howling had the war been prosecuted ala WWII?
Mike The NYT - my leftist brochure. dennisd45: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced dennisd45 (the NAMBLA supporter) wrote: I know exactly what it means. So shut up you mother killing baby raper.
The WWII Bomber Harris was heavily criticised over the RAF's Bomber Commands orders to destroy Dresden and other German Towns/Cities. Untold civilians were unnecessarily killed. At the time it might have appeared to be the right thing to do but after the war finished it was clear to all that this type of action is obnoxious in the extreme. Perhaps if such occured again it might be viewed as a war crime. Would you agree that, all you do must be fully justifiable with a clear conscience knowing it to be right.
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Richard A. Abbott wrote:
That disqualfies a lot of people myself included.
If you're really serious about it have a look at the sponsorship program, I've worked with a lot of people that have been out here that way
System.IO.Path.IsPathRooted() does not behave as I would expect
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oilFactotum wrote:
I'm sure the viet cong were glued to their TV's watching Kerry's testimony and listening to Walter Cronkite and becoming filled with a desire to fight for a year or two more until the Americans left
don't be silly. the Cong didn't beat us our own public opinion did, talk to a 'Nam vet and he'll tell you we were winning but were forced to leave early because of public opinion genned up by the likes of Kerry and Cronkite. and again, our leaving too soon caused loss of life in the millions.
oilFactotum wrote:
You agree that we can't win in Iraq with Bush at the helm
I give classes on sarcasm recognition.
oilFactotum wrote:
demonizing the opposition.
calling someone a coward isn't demonizing. a coward is a coward whether he/she is labeled such or not.
Mike The NYT - my leftist brochure. dennisd45: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced dennisd45 (the NAMBLA supporter) wrote: I know exactly what it means. So shut up you mother killing baby raper.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
don't be silly
I'm not, but I have to wonder about you. Pretending that 55,000 dead, hundreds of thousands of wounded and disabled veterans, billions of dollars and 10 years of promises of victory unfilled had nothing to do with a disilusioned public is being silly.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
our leaving too soon caused loss of life in the millions.
Our presence there killed 3 million Vetnamese. So you think we should have killed a few million more by extending the war?
Mike Gaskey wrote:
I give classes on sarcasm recognition.
Your sarcasm went right passed me. I really can't imagine what you think he's going to do. Every descision he's made as been a complete failure. Violence is worse, disorder is worse, civil war is happening. And you think his plan to send in 21,000 troops for a few months is going to change everything? [modification] In this post[^] You say you believe the war has been prosecuted badly and say that the wholesale destruction of the country is your solution. You know that is not going to happen, so do you really believe that this surge is all it will take to win? What makes you believe that Bush can win?
Mike Gaskey wrote:
calling someone a coward isn't demonizing
You didn't call "some one" a coward - You called all Democrats cowards[^]. That is demonization. -- modified at 18:54 Monday 12th February, 2007
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I wouldn't vote for him if his name was Bob Smith. But, no, Barak Hussien Obama is just too much for my xenophobic blood even if he were the political reincarnation of Ronald Reagan..
Modern liberalism has never achieved anything other than giving Secularists something to feel morally superior about
Stan Shannon wrote:
I wouldn't vote for him if his name was Bob Smith.
Yeah, but you wouldn't emigrate to Australia. That's a shame. Your arguments usually had merit, even if I thought they were flawed and completely wrong. Didn't think Xenophobic was one of them.
"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." - George Bernard Shaw Web - Blog - RSS - Math - LinkedIn - BM
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""It's time to admit that no amount of American lives can resolve the political disagreements in the lives and heart of someone else's civil war...If he's ginned up to fight the good fight in Iraq, I would suggest that he call up another 20,000 Australians and send them to Iraq. Otherwise, it's just a bunch of empty rhetoric." Yes it is. Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithMarc Clifton wrote:
""If he's ginned up to fight the good fight in Iraq, I would suggest that he call up another 20,000 Australians and send them to Iraq. Otherwise, it's just a bunch of empty rhetoric." Yes it is.
Exactly right. Howard is a very skilled politician in the worst sense of the word. He takes these "tough" positions on Iraq, while carefully avoiding putting Australians at much risk. Australian has had only 2 fatalities in Iraq. From memory, one was killed in a transport accident with no help from the enemy and the other managed to shoot himself while playing with his gun. And, by the way, the Australian government managed to remain "unaware" of what was going on while the Australian Wheat Board paid 300 million dollars to Saddam Hussein's regime in kickbacks as part of the oil for food scandal. This is a really cynical government.
John Carson
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Marc Clifton wrote:
""If he's ginned up to fight the good fight in Iraq, I would suggest that he call up another 20,000 Australians and send them to Iraq. Otherwise, it's just a bunch of empty rhetoric." Yes it is.
Exactly right. Howard is a very skilled politician in the worst sense of the word. He takes these "tough" positions on Iraq, while carefully avoiding putting Australians at much risk. Australian has had only 2 fatalities in Iraq. From memory, one was killed in a transport accident with no help from the enemy and the other managed to shoot himself while playing with his gun. And, by the way, the Australian government managed to remain "unaware" of what was going on while the Australian Wheat Board paid 300 million dollars to Saddam Hussein's regime in kickbacks as part of the oil for food scandal. This is a really cynical government.
John Carson
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Marc Clifton wrote:
It's time to admit that no.......
Obama and the majority of Democrats are out and out fools. Regardless of what opinion you may have on why we are where we are, the fact of the matter is that we've pulled a scab off of Iraq and it is the height of irresponsibility to believe we should walk away.
Mike The NYT - my leftist brochure. dennisd45: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced dennisd45 (the NAMBLA supporter) wrote: I know exactly what it means. So shut up you mother killing baby raper.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
Regardless of what opinion you may have on why we are where we are, the fact of the matter is that we've pulled a scab off of Iraq and it is the height of irresponsibility to believe we should walk away.
On this particular point, I am inclined to agree with you --- except that I don't believe Bush has the skills to make any real progress. At this stage, the person who impresses me most is Wesley Clark, currently contemplating a bid for the Democratic nomination. He is a long shot, but that is the only sort of shot available in Iraq at the moment.
John Carson
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John Carson wrote:
This is a really cynical government.
What do you think about Rudd? Reakon he's got a better chance than Besley?
System.IO.Path.IsPathRooted() does not behave as I would expect
Josh Gray wrote:
What do you think about Rudd? Reakon he's got a better chance than Besley?
I've wanted Rudd since the time Latham first got the job. The numbers weren't there so Rudd declined to run. I think he is really Labor's answer to Howard; smart enough to keep himself out of trouble, not likely to scare people much, with enough spine to differentiate himself from Howard, and with the energy and intellligence to come up with enough policy initiatives to give people a reason to vote for him. I have seen too many Labor party leads in opinion polls evaporate at election time to be confident, but things are looking more hopeful than they have in a long time.
John Carson
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Josh Gray wrote:
What do you think about Rudd? Reakon he's got a better chance than Besley?
I've wanted Rudd since the time Latham first got the job. The numbers weren't there so Rudd declined to run. I think he is really Labor's answer to Howard; smart enough to keep himself out of trouble, not likely to scare people much, with enough spine to differentiate himself from Howard, and with the energy and intellligence to come up with enough policy initiatives to give people a reason to vote for him. I have seen too many Labor party leads in opinion polls evaporate at election time to be confident, but things are looking more hopeful than they have in a long time.
John Carson
John Carson wrote:
I think he is really Labor's answer to Howard; smart enough to keep himself out of trouble, not likely to scare people much, with enough spine to differentiate himself from Howard, and with the energy and intellligence to come up with enough policy initiatives to give people a reason to vote for him.
I hope Rudd can beat Howard at the next election. I think Howard and Bush want this war to go on for as long as possible. Howard has learnt a lot from Bush, keep your population in a constant state of ignorance and fear, (The Americans call it freedom), and they will vote for you craving a feeling of comfort and protection. Howards first experiment was the Tampa, that went quite well for him and he has just rolled on from there. I have read so much crap about the justification for the invasion of Iraq in this forum. I think Rusian President Putin (sp?) has it right. Or do you think George W just wants to pretend he has a bigger dick than Daddy?
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John Carson wrote:
I think he is really Labor's answer to Howard; smart enough to keep himself out of trouble, not likely to scare people much, with enough spine to differentiate himself from Howard, and with the energy and intellligence to come up with enough policy initiatives to give people a reason to vote for him.
I hope Rudd can beat Howard at the next election. I think Howard and Bush want this war to go on for as long as possible. Howard has learnt a lot from Bush, keep your population in a constant state of ignorance and fear, (The Americans call it freedom), and they will vote for you craving a feeling of comfort and protection. Howards first experiment was the Tampa, that went quite well for him and he has just rolled on from there. I have read so much crap about the justification for the invasion of Iraq in this forum. I think Rusian President Putin (sp?) has it right. Or do you think George W just wants to pretend he has a bigger dick than Daddy?
TimK wrote:
Howard has learnt a lot from Bush, keep your population in a constant state of ignorance and fear, (The Americans call it freedom), and they will vote for you craving a feeling of comfort and protection. Howards first experiment was the Tampa, that went quite well for him and he has just rolled on from there.
I think it is a tactic that has been around for a very long time. There was a famous exchange with Nazi figure Hermann Goering at the time of the Nuremberg trials after the war
We got around to the subject of war again and I said that, contrary to his attitude, I did not think that the common people are very thankful for leaders who bring them war and destruction. "Why, of course, the people don't want war," Goering shrugged. "Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship." "There is one difference," I pointed out. "In a democracy the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars." "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
John Carson
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
Regardless of what opinion you may have on why we are where we are, the fact of the matter is that we've pulled a scab off of Iraq and it is the height of irresponsibility to believe we should walk away.
On this particular point, I am inclined to agree with you --- except that I don't believe Bush has the skills to make any real progress. At this stage, the person who impresses me most is Wesley Clark, currently contemplating a bid for the Democratic nomination. He is a long shot, but that is the only sort of shot available in Iraq at the moment.
John Carson
John Carson wrote:
the only sort of shot available in Iraq at the moment.
on the other hand, if we continue with the medical analogy it may be cured by time and exposure to fresh air. by that I mean at some point the Iraq population may just say, "enough". "Enough" may mean they all turn in unison and say, "get out" or it may mean they work together to put their country on track and leverage the largess that could be had.
Mike The NYT - my leftist brochure. dennisd45: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced dennisd45 (the NAMBLA supporter) wrote: I know exactly what it means. So shut up you mother killing baby raper.