Benefits of atheism

Tim Craig

Joergen Sigvardsson wrote:

Charles Manson makes more sense

I miss Charlie since they moved him to Pelican Bay. :( I used to wave to him when I drove past Q to or from the wine country.

The evolution of the human genome is too important to be left to chance idiots like CSS.

Lost User

But the church is led by the pope; and he is never wrong (papal infallibility).

-------- Micrologic Networks, India

Tim Craig

Christian Graus wrote:

Morality is defined by society, more than the individual, and enforced by society when an individual strays to far from the accepted norm.

Society's role is ethics not morality. How does society deal with the fact that morality is individual and is going to vary? This is why one group's morality can't be enshrined in law. Law needs to be the least common denominator as to what is reasonable behavior.

The evolution of the human genome is too important to be left to chance idiots like CSS.

Tim Craig

Christian Graus wrote:

Most of this is obviously meant in jest, and has no basis in reality.

I'm not laughing.

The evolution of the human genome is too important to be left to chance idiots like CSS.

Ilion

For starters, we won't saw their heads off with a rusty butter knife. But mostly, 'atheists' care only about Christianity (and to a lesser extent, Judaism). It's Biblical religion which gives 'atheists' the cold sweats. Islam has only the power to kill their bodies; Christ has the power to give them Life. Isn't it *obvious* which is the more dangerous?

Gary Kirkham

I have no fear of death, nor do any Christians that I know. 2) You can make up your own mind, but you will find that you are not free to exercise your morals as your choose regardless of any belief in a "higher power." 3) I am free to give to whatever charity I please, and do. 4) Romans 8:1 5) I work in science and engineering and haven't noted any restrictions 6) "that does not harm others" Why are you restricting your own freedom? Just go for it! 7) I don't pretend, I honestly believe what I believe...my choice 8) God is not out to get me. I also don't worry about my circumstances. 9) Sacrifices went out 2000 years ago. Prayer works. Only ceremony I ever remember going to was my wedding. 10) Pretty silly statement 11) I have friends. Why would you assume that athiests somehow have the market cornered on friendship? 12) How do you know that you don't? I suspect that I take the same care to protect my children that you do. 13) I have no pride in my ignorance or my knowledge and I don't feel compelled to hang out with those who do.

Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliot Me blog, You read

John Carson

As a general response, you seem to think that the test here is whether the item applies to you or conforms to your understanding of what Christianity is. I am sure the author didn't construct the list on that basis. Probably, the author observed characteristics (s)he believed were present in significant numbers of people claiming to be Christians (not necessarily even a majority for some of the items) and was pleased to declare him/herself free of all of them. If so, the item is justified in term's of the author's intent if there are significant numbers of people claiming to be Christians who exhibit the behaviour described in the item. Of course the list is one-sided. I would hope that the author wouldn't pretend otherwise. Below, I will sometime just write GR (for "general response") if I think your comments on an item are clearly based on interpreting it as describing you or your preferred interpretation of Christianity.

Christian Graus wrote:

1. As an atheist, I am free of supernatural fear. Dying holds no great terror. Poor Christians are in constant dread of eternal torment or eternal boredom micromanaged like sheep for all eternity. Watch them panic at the very idea of death. They can't even say the word "die". They say "he passed on" or "he is resting in peace" or "he went to meet his maker" or "he is in a better place". Christians paint corpses to help create the illusion they are not really dead, just resting like some Norwegian Blue parrot, pining for the fjords. This is actually patently false. Christans, more than anyone else, have no fear of death, because they believe they will live agan.

It is an exaggeration and one-sided but not patently false. Lots of people who believe in God are not confident of their salvation. It is well known that many of the people who go forward at Billy Graham crusades to "receive Christ as their saviour" are long time believers in God. Some people even go forward at multiple crusades because they never feel "saved" so it is an ongoing issue. Catholics always have a thing about committing mortal sins that could exclude them from heaven (yeah, I know you don't think Catholics are Christians, but we are talking about religion in general). Actually, I knew an old lady who spent the last years of her life in considerable distress over the issue (declining mental powers no doubt played a role, but the whole religious environment meant she was ripe for such a reaction). Fear of hell is less of an i

John Carson

Ilíon wrote:

Really. Even in the best of circumstances, life generally gets "worse" as one ages. But, if one happens to be a European Infidel at this particular time in history, it very much looks as though life will soon be "worse" no matter what one's age. Wouldn't it be so much "better" to make the "rational" decision right now?

About as rational as putting on extra clothing now in the expectation that it will get cold tomorrow.

John Carson

Christian Graus

John Carson wrote:

As a general response, you seem to think that the test here is whether the item applies to you or conforms to your understanding of what Christianity is.

As a general response, most of this does not apply to what most Christians think Christianity is, it's a straw man, as much a bunch of self congratulation as any group think that goes on in any church.

John Carson wrote:

It is an exaggeration and one-sided but not patently false. Lots of people who believe in God are not confident of their salvation.

But, surely, it's at least as true to say that many non-Christians fear death ?

John Carson wrote:

yeah, I know you don't think Catholics are Christians

It's plainly a seperate religion, with it's own beliefs.

John Carson wrote:

It is one-sided, but you can certainly argue that churches spend a lot of money on purposes that at least an atheist wouldn't value.

Sure - the government also spends a lot on things no-one would value, that doesn't mean they never do any good with any of their money. It's beyond one-sided, it's plain ludicrous, when most charities are 'christian'.

John Carson wrote:

GR

I don't know of anyone outside of Catholics who claim that assisted suicide is an unforgivable sin. The US is full of religious nut jobs, I will grant you, and thinks like abortion become far more of a religious issue there than anywhere else, for example.

John Carson wrote:

There are plenty of Creationists in the US who are prepared to say those who disagree with them are not Christians or that their Christianity is in question, regardless of how Christian the opponents appear on other grounds.

OK, so you dispute the original statement too. It says I am not free to think for myself, you accept that Christians do exactly that, even if some in the churches disagree with them.

John Carson wrote:

I presume that you don't dispute that Christians have prayers and ceremonies. There is also the question of what is meant by sacrifices. Catholics have Lent, for example.

We pray, but it's pathetic to say what a relif i is not to pray. I don't like playing football, does that

Christian Graus

OK, well, I responded to John. The statements in the original post are good for a laugh, but most have no basis in reality.

Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )

Ilion

Thomas George wrote:

But the church is led by the pope; and he is never wrong (papal infallibility).

You have no idea what you're talking about. And if you wanted to know what you're talking about, you could find out in seconds.

John Carson

Christian Graus wrote:

But, surely, it's at least as true to say that many non-Christians fear death ?

Sure. But just as you say "I don't feel that way", I am sure the author would say "I personally am not afraid of death" --- or at least not of what happens in any afterlife --- and credit this to his lack of religious belief.

Christian Graus wrote:

It's plainly a seperate religion, with it's own beliefs.

It is not plain to most people and certainly would not have been plain to the author of the list.

Christian Graus wrote:

Sure - the government also spends a lot on things no-one would value, that doesn't mean they never do any good with any of their money. It's beyond one-sided, it's plain ludicrous, when most charities are 'christian'.

One of the weaker points on the list, I grant you.

Christian Graus wrote:

I don't know of anyone outside of Catholics who claim that assisted suicide is an unforgivable sin.

Almost all of the Christians that I know personally think that assisted suicide is a sin. Almost none are Catholics (so they don't accept that any sin is unforgivable). I think that is a pretty mainstream position.

Christian Graus wrote:

It says I am not free to think for myself, you accept that Christians do exactly that, even if some in the churches disagree with them.

Some Christians, of course. I acknowledged that in my first post and subsequently.

Christian Graus wrote:

We pray, but it's pathetic to say what a relif i is not to pray. I don't like playing football, does that prove people who play football are wasting their time, or not enjoying it ?

I have heard plenty of non-football players or non-X people suggesting that X people are wasting their time. From an atheist perspective, talking to someone who isn't there is plainly not rational behaviour. No surprise that an atheist thinks they are better off not having that behaviour.

Christian Graus wrote:

What Catholics do is irrelevant.

No it isn't.

Christian Graus wrote:

Again, because I find value in something, doesn't make you better off for not seeing value in it.<

Ilion

Joergen Sigvardsson wrote:

I don't need your sympathies. I am not the one deluded by fairy tales. WTF man? Do you comprehend what you are saying? Charles Manson makes more sense...

Clearly, you don't comprehend what *you* are saying. edit: But then, you are a zombie, aren't you? I mean, if your religion were really the truth about reality, we'd all be zombies, wouldn't we? If I am deluded, then it doesn't matter that I'm delued and it doesn't matter that you are undeluded. Nothing at all would matter or could possibly matter if the world were really as you claim (sans "proof" mind you, since I know how important "proof" is to you folk) that it is. If reality were really as you claim it is, then you are going to die shortly, as will I, and that's the end of it. And shortly after that, the entire human species will die. And not too long after that, the sun will vaporize the earth and there won't even be any evidence left. As though there would be anyone to care even if there were any evidence left. If reality were really as you claim it is, then there is no point to anything. And here you are trying to act all superior because you "know" the stupid, pointless truth about pointless, futile existence. It would seem to me that either you don't really know the truth about reality or you don't have the courage of your convictions.

Ilion

Ah, I see that the children don't like reality as it really is. Shame on me for telling someone he's ignorant when he's ignorant (in this case about the Catholic doctrine a 'papal infallibility'). Why, next thing you know, I might tell some who is ignorant about Galileo that he's ignorant about Galileo. Goodness, you never know, I might clue someone in that he's ignorant about that silly little ol' "But we'll sail off the edge of the world" tall tale (which is exactly what it was). Or the Crusades. Or the "suppression of 'science'" myth. Or ... on and on. But, in the Church of Invincible Ignorance, it is considered such bad form to make the votaries aware of their stunning and willing ignorance.

Lost User

Joergen Sigvardsson wrote:

I don't need your sympathies. I am not the one deluded by fairy tales. WTF man? Do you comprehend what you are saying? Charles Manson makes more sense...

Mate, we all need to hold hands and pray for understanding ;)

System.IO.Path.IsPathRooted() does not behave as I would expect

Al Beback

Ilíon wrote:

Haven't you noticed that, as Europe is so clearly demonstrating, 'atheism' is a one-way ticket to national/cultural suicide.

Is this your opinion? Please enlighten me on the ways people who don't live their lives according to superstitious nonsense are hurting Europe. Also, do you miss the tooth fairy? Do you think you'd be better off continuing to believe in the tooth fairy, or do you prefer knowing the truth?

Lost User

Ilíon wrote:

You have no idea what you're talking about.

That is what the Muslims tell me, when I point out the religion-sanctioned gender discrimination. In this case, I must really have no idea. I have been a Catholic for only 34 years now. Even during my short life-span, I have seen the Church organization descend to new lows. The church does not seem to care about Jesus's messages unless it is sermon-time. The problem with all religions today is that they cannot live up to the high standards that they have set for their followers. When an error is made, it takes a great deal of time to accept it -- after several efforts to cover them up. (For example: the child molestation scandal in the USA. The bigger problem than the child molestation was the effort to cover it up with the blessings from Rome. The church was more concerned about its priests than the children who may come in their contact later on.) Coming back to the point: Papal infallibility is a dogma that I summarize as follows. It says that even though the *holy spirit* works all the time to guide the Pope, he will still make mistakes (i.e., commit sins). But, since the mistake was made under the guidance of the *holy spirit*, he is not liable for the sin committed. What does this mean? God will not hold the Pope accountable for his actions because God himself did those? All these arguments have nothing to do with what Jesus did or said. I believe that Jesus existed. I have experienced that his messages about how to lead life gives anyone a better enriching life experience. I don't think that the Church organizations have a monopoly on the message of Christ, or that his message derives its value from the miracles he performed, his bachelor status or his rising from the dead. Due to that reason, I don't have any interest in Mr. Cameroon's work. Thomas

-------- Micrologic Networks, India

Judah Gabriel Himango

Weird, my name just changed to Swamii? CodeProject is acting weird...

Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: 4 Exorcism Psalms from the Dead Sea Scrolls The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango

Ilion

I'm not a Catholic, and even I know you don't know what you're talking about. Why don't you try Googling the phrase "papal infallibility" and pay attention to more "official" sites, such as NewAdvent.

Tim Craig

Christian Graus wrote:

The statements in the original post are good for a laugh, but most have no basis in reality.

I guess I could say the same thing about christianity.

The evolution of the human genome is too important to be left to chance idiots like CSS.