Vista: first thoughts
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Well, for one thing, I know I'd rather read this [^] than that [^]. The former looks exactly as the [guy who stole it from the] author intended, it is not surrounded by distractions, it is fully wysiwyg, it is printable in the exact same form, and it places the burden of formatting entirely on the author, not the CodeProject staff and software. But we've discussed this before. "Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupery Personally, I've always thought that quotation a bit wordy. ;)
The Grand Negus wrote:
"Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
You will die with options if you enter CodeG*r*.:omg: I dont understand why would someone need those bulk of options making it look like a professional chat service. :doh: I think it's targeting orkut ;P
Press: 1500 to 2,200 messages in just 6 days? How's that possible sir? **Dr.Brad :**Well,I just replied to everything Graus did and then argued with Negus for a bit.
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Simillar thoughts when i tried beta versions of vista but now i must say i like it . Some of the things i really love is 1. The Search 2. The preview handlers 3. Get old versions of the file / folder 4. And sidebar Gadgets ofcourse i think, any change even for better comes with a price and is painful
Omit Needless Words - Strunk, William, Jr.
Vista? VideoGadget here
In addition to the "search", I love the search on the start menu. I now have a ton of programs installed and I only have to type the first couple of letter to find the app intead of navigating the nested menus. Pretty cool to say the least!
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: Continuing frustration with web "standards" Latest Tech Blog Post: Corel Lightning - what is the plan?
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The Grand Negus wrote:
"Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
You will die with options if you enter CodeG*r*.:omg: I dont understand why would someone need those bulk of options making it look like a professional chat service. :doh: I think it's targeting orkut ;P
Press: 1500 to 2,200 messages in just 6 days? How's that possible sir? **Dr.Brad :**Well,I just replied to everything Graus did and then argued with Negus for a bit.
VuNic wrote:
I dont understand why would someone need those bulk of options making it look like a professional chat service.
I suppose they just kept adding one more little thing... death by a thousand cuts.
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VuNic wrote:
I dont understand why would someone need those bulk of options making it look like a professional chat service.
I suppose they just kept adding one more little thing... death by a thousand cuts.
---- Scripts i’ve known... CPhog 1.8.2 - make CP better. Forum Bookmark 0.2.5 - bookmark forum posts on Pensieve Print forum 0.1.2 - printer-friendly forums Expand all 1.0 - Expand all messages In-place Delete 1.0 - AJAX-style post delete Syntax 0.3 - Syntax highlighting for code blocks in the forums
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X| But I guess I should explain why I feel that way. It feels solid. There's plenty of security features, it updates drivers automatically (when it can find them) and the use of the GPU for screen display is certainly long overdue. But:
- Tasks seem to require even deeper dialog, page or menu digging than before. Also, tasks have now been reorganised so you have a window with tasks down the left hand side, looking like it all integrated with the current window. However, when you click a task a new window pops up instead of the current page simply being replaced with the UI of the new task. The maze of tasks and tabs and menus and windows and 54 items in the control panel is starting to freak me out. There is no way my parents will be able to do anything other than stick to basic default settings.
- Customising features such as the start menu is needlessly difficult. In fact the entire Start Menu has become a dog's breakfast.
- The new themes look horrible when compared to, say, MacOS. Black caption bar text on a transparent background is bad when the caption is over something that is itself dark.
- UAC is horrible. What an appallingly intrusive and klunky way to protect a computer.
- Everyone's already said it, but the inconsistency of the UI is really getting annoying. Back buttons in the top left instead of with the "Next". Menu options that either hard to decipher or don't reflect what the menu option actually leads to. Options that are sometimes 'Options' and sometimes 'Personalise'. Make up your mind.
- The reflections on all the UI elements seem cartoonish. I want my OS to sit there and let me be productive, not glitter and shine and have an overdone faux reflectivity that makes me bob my head trying to remove the "reflections" from the wording.
- Random programs now crash. Even something as innocuous as SyncToy died a horrible death.
I'm trying to give Vista a go but I just look at it and think "5 years??". The UI is just plain overdone. No subtlety or class at all, no unifying UI methodology or consistency. Lots of big pictures, pretty backgrounds and calming lists to make it look simple, but it all turns out to be a superficial cover to a needlessly convoluted system. Maybe I'm being harsh and will grow to enjoy it, but after using it for a day and feeling needlessly and continually frustrated I can't in good faith recommend it to friends and family. And that makes me sad.
cheers, Chris Maunder
I haven't tried it, but if the new IE7 interface is a sneak preview I'm willing to consider Linux. Unfortunately our prefered provider at work is Dell, and they refuse to install XP on new machines, so there's a limit to how long I can hold out. XP was bad enough - a huge step toward unusability from 2000, and what I see of screenshots and descriptions of Vista indicates that MS has continued the process of making their products less usable. Soon enough I'll know - one of our people just ordered a new Dell, and I'll be expected to support it. X|
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"
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X| But I guess I should explain why I feel that way. It feels solid. There's plenty of security features, it updates drivers automatically (when it can find them) and the use of the GPU for screen display is certainly long overdue. But:
- Tasks seem to require even deeper dialog, page or menu digging than before. Also, tasks have now been reorganised so you have a window with tasks down the left hand side, looking like it all integrated with the current window. However, when you click a task a new window pops up instead of the current page simply being replaced with the UI of the new task. The maze of tasks and tabs and menus and windows and 54 items in the control panel is starting to freak me out. There is no way my parents will be able to do anything other than stick to basic default settings.
- Customising features such as the start menu is needlessly difficult. In fact the entire Start Menu has become a dog's breakfast.
- The new themes look horrible when compared to, say, MacOS. Black caption bar text on a transparent background is bad when the caption is over something that is itself dark.
- UAC is horrible. What an appallingly intrusive and klunky way to protect a computer.
- Everyone's already said it, but the inconsistency of the UI is really getting annoying. Back buttons in the top left instead of with the "Next". Menu options that either hard to decipher or don't reflect what the menu option actually leads to. Options that are sometimes 'Options' and sometimes 'Personalise'. Make up your mind.
- The reflections on all the UI elements seem cartoonish. I want my OS to sit there and let me be productive, not glitter and shine and have an overdone faux reflectivity that makes me bob my head trying to remove the "reflections" from the wording.
- Random programs now crash. Even something as innocuous as SyncToy died a horrible death.
I'm trying to give Vista a go but I just look at it and think "5 years??". The UI is just plain overdone. No subtlety or class at all, no unifying UI methodology or consistency. Lots of big pictures, pretty backgrounds and calming lists to make it look simple, but it all turns out to be a superficial cover to a needlessly convoluted system. Maybe I'm being harsh and will grow to enjoy it, but after using it for a day and feeling needlessly and continually frustrated I can't in good faith recommend it to friends and family. And that makes me sad.
cheers, Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote:
UAC is horrible. What an appallingly intrusive and klunky way to protect a computer.
A few days ago, I rambled on about UAC in this post[^], and you'll be glad to know that there is a way to make it less clunky. There's a also a fairly good reason for its clunkiness, but I still prefer the less clunky version.
Sunrise Wallpaper Project | The StartPage Randomizer | A Random Web Page
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X| But I guess I should explain why I feel that way. It feels solid. There's plenty of security features, it updates drivers automatically (when it can find them) and the use of the GPU for screen display is certainly long overdue. But:
- Tasks seem to require even deeper dialog, page or menu digging than before. Also, tasks have now been reorganised so you have a window with tasks down the left hand side, looking like it all integrated with the current window. However, when you click a task a new window pops up instead of the current page simply being replaced with the UI of the new task. The maze of tasks and tabs and menus and windows and 54 items in the control panel is starting to freak me out. There is no way my parents will be able to do anything other than stick to basic default settings.
- Customising features such as the start menu is needlessly difficult. In fact the entire Start Menu has become a dog's breakfast.
- The new themes look horrible when compared to, say, MacOS. Black caption bar text on a transparent background is bad when the caption is over something that is itself dark.
- UAC is horrible. What an appallingly intrusive and klunky way to protect a computer.
- Everyone's already said it, but the inconsistency of the UI is really getting annoying. Back buttons in the top left instead of with the "Next". Menu options that either hard to decipher or don't reflect what the menu option actually leads to. Options that are sometimes 'Options' and sometimes 'Personalise'. Make up your mind.
- The reflections on all the UI elements seem cartoonish. I want my OS to sit there and let me be productive, not glitter and shine and have an overdone faux reflectivity that makes me bob my head trying to remove the "reflections" from the wording.
- Random programs now crash. Even something as innocuous as SyncToy died a horrible death.
I'm trying to give Vista a go but I just look at it and think "5 years??". The UI is just plain overdone. No subtlety or class at all, no unifying UI methodology or consistency. Lots of big pictures, pretty backgrounds and calming lists to make it look simple, but it all turns out to be a superficial cover to a needlessly convoluted system. Maybe I'm being harsh and will grow to enjoy it, but after using it for a day and feeling needlessly and continually frustrated I can't in good faith recommend it to friends and family. And that makes me sad.
cheers, Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote:
In fact the entire Start Menu has become a dog's breakfast.
Amen to that. I *hate* it.
Chris Maunder wrote:
UAC is horrible. What an appallingly intrusive and klunky way to protect a computer.
Yes, there are MVPs who claim it rocks and all the complaints are unfounded. I think they are on crack. UAC is a disaster, and the worst part, is that when I get a virus, MS will say 'UAC would have protected you, you turned it off, you're on your own'. It looks to me like an exercise in diminished liability. No-one will put up with it.
Chris Maunder wrote:
The reflections on all the UI elements seem cartoonish. I want my OS to sit there and let me be productive, not glitter and shine and have an overdone faux reflectivity that makes me bob my head trying to remove the "reflections" from the wording.
That 'prettiness' is supposed to distract you from how much you paid for an OS that does nothing new.
Chris Maunder wrote:
Random programs now crash. Even something as innocuous as SyncToy died a horrible death.
What gets me is how many MICROSOFT programs won't install without a fight. don't the different teams talk to each other ? Isn't a new OS something important enough to make sure it works with my MS products ? And why doesn't the installer explain to me while it installs about things like 'run as admin' ? I mean, isn't that important ? They used to have splash screens that told me all sorts of useless junk. Now, there's something important going on, and it's a secret ?
Chris Maunder wrote:
Maybe I'm being harsh and will grow to enjoy it
I admit to starting the same way with XP. I still hate the XP menu, I always change it to 'classic'. And 'classic' view of the control panel is all that's ever useful. But, Vista sure feels like I'm far less likely to ever 'love' it.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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In addition to the "search", I love the search on the start menu. I now have a ton of programs installed and I only have to type the first couple of letter to find the app intead of navigating the nested menus. Pretty cool to say the least!
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: Continuing frustration with web "standards" Latest Tech Blog Post: Corel Lightning - what is the plan?
That is the killer feature for me. I use it exclusively to launch programs, shortcuts, files and folders, etc. On the occasions I am forced to use XP again I keep catching myself trying to search on the start menu and subsequently launching all sorts of things by accident. :-O
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk -
I haven't spent much time playing with Vista, but I agree that the changes to the control panel and the like seem to have made things more difficult and more complicated. Microsoft does this all the time. It changes the UI just for the sake of it. I am sure that MS would claim that this is the result of testing and user feedback and all the rest, but the fact is that any substantial UI change means that users no longer know how to do things. Accordingly, the new design has to be pretty darn good to justify it. I am confident that a large majority of users would prefer to be able to continue doing things the old way. UI designers need to justify their positions, so they keep changing things. It is kind of ironic that the QWERTY keyboard is still with us for reasons of backward compatibility, yet the interface of our software changes so regularly. That said, I have to admit that my initial response to a new OS or new program isn't necessarily of major long term importance. Usually in the past I have gotten used to the new way of doing things. Probably that will happen with Vista too --- but it will waste a lot of my time in the meanwhile.
John Carson
I'm curious about the changes to the control panel making things more difficult and complicated for you. Do you use the new search box in Vista at all? I've found it reliable 100% of the time, even when you are not certain exactly what it is you are looking to find. (i.e. it works on tasks, not just commands.)
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk -
That is the killer feature for me. I use it exclusively to launch programs, shortcuts, files and folders, etc. On the occasions I am forced to use XP again I keep catching myself trying to search on the start menu and subsequently launching all sorts of things by accident. :-O
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk -
I'm curious about the changes to the control panel making things more difficult and complicated for you. Do you use the new search box in Vista at all? I've found it reliable 100% of the time, even when you are not certain exactly what it is you are looking to find. (i.e. it works on tasks, not just commands.)
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milkDavid Wulff wrote:
I'm curious about the changes to the control panel making things more difficult and complicated for you
It is principally just that so many things have changed. It is like someone comes into your kitchen and puts all your stuff in different cupboards and drawers. The actual organisation may be more or less logical than under XP. I don't know yet because I haven't figured out where enough things are to know. I also don't like the way it creates new windows all over the place.
David Wulff wrote:
Do you use the new search box in Vista at all? I've found it reliable 100% of the time, even when you are not certain exactly what it is you are looking to find. (i.e. it works on tasks, not just commands.)
I want to know where things are, not put myself at the mercy of some search engine that comes up with God knows what. I nevertheless tried it on your recommendation. I typed in Administrator privileges After searching for some time, it came up with exactly 0 results. This may possibly be because I can't connect to the Internet with Vista. It used to connect, but now it has stopped.
John Carson
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David Wulff wrote:
I'm curious about the changes to the control panel making things more difficult and complicated for you
It is principally just that so many things have changed. It is like someone comes into your kitchen and puts all your stuff in different cupboards and drawers. The actual organisation may be more or less logical than under XP. I don't know yet because I haven't figured out where enough things are to know. I also don't like the way it creates new windows all over the place.
David Wulff wrote:
Do you use the new search box in Vista at all? I've found it reliable 100% of the time, even when you are not certain exactly what it is you are looking to find. (i.e. it works on tasks, not just commands.)
I want to know where things are, not put myself at the mercy of some search engine that comes up with God knows what. I nevertheless tried it on your recommendation. I typed in Administrator privileges After searching for some time, it came up with exactly 0 results. This may possibly be because I can't connect to the Internet with Vista. It used to connect, but now it has stopped.
John Carson
John Carson wrote:
Administrator privileges
When I type in 'Administrator privileges' (in fact, as I type it in as well) it comes up with exactly one match: "Give administrative rights to a domain user". http://www.codeproject.com/script/profile/upload/1363/admincp.jpg[^] :rolleyes: I have no idea if an internet connection is required for that, but I wouldn't have thought so. Just to clarify, you are using the search box in the Control Panel, and not the general search box in Vista? The general one only works when you type in the actual name, not the task.
John Carson wrote:
It is like someone comes into your kitchen and puts all your stuff in different cupboards and drawers
After five years of putting things back in the wrong cupboards and drawers, I hardly notice now. Joking aside, once you get used to the new organisation you will find it a lot more intuative, especially considering there are a lot more options available to you now than with Windows XP.
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk
