Dell Polls PC Users on Favorite Linux Varieties
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http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,129809-page,1/article.html#[^] This may be a harbinger of good things - like real competition! Personally, I believe that the Linux desktop is no where near as polished as Windows, but now maybe the marketplace will finally be able to put some healthy pressure on Microsoft, the way it should.
-------------------------------- "All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke
Richie308 wrote:
Personally, I believe that the Linux desktop is no where near as polished as Windows
It's not really but a recent comparison in PCPlus comparing Vista against Linux for what the experiences that the user has concluded that Linux has all the graphical effects etc that Vista does, it can do everything that Vista can and in some cases better, the problem is that these features don't come in a nice package.
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How so?
-------------------------------- "All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke
I've seen many Linux aficionados agree that Linux is better. But I've yet to see them agree on a distro. Like with many, the the marginally separate is flamed worse than total heathens (like catholics vs. protestants). This assumes of course that the votes for "Linux on Dell" are from people that actually do want Dells with Linux preinstalled. If they are just perfectly ok with not paying for Windows - because they want to install their OS / licence type of choice.
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Funding isn't really an issue I don't believe. I mean you have Novell and IBM involved (talk about funding). The problem with Linux is in a buzzword that actually pertains/applies quite well "unified". Linux is not a unified effort. Somehow, somewhere, someway all the Linux development talent needs to converge on cranking out one killer distribution. They need to pick a single FTP, HTTP, SMTP, Media, Etc product and integrate it tightly in. They need to work out the little things (and really Linux is far enough now where it's just the little things that really get people) and get it smooth. They need to pick one Window Manager (maybe 2 but I think trying to integrate both KDE and Gnome is too big a bite to chew). Linux has 1000 forks but no real food on the table. There are all these half-baked distributions out there with no clear "Cadillac" contender. It's the biggest problem in Open Source ... Oh! Speaking of Open Source that little mess needs to get resolved to. If you are going to produce a gold distribution fully polished for RTM at least charge $25 for it and remove the pansy licensing restrictions. Linux will never be a contender until they unify the product and fix the goofy licensing issues including the IP crap with Microsoft and all the other Linux-Fear-Factor companies out there...
My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, Commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered process, husband to a murdered thread. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next. - Gladiator I work to live. I do not live to work. My clients do not seem capable of grasping this fact.
Very good argument about unification. I agree.
-------------------------------- "All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke
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How so?
-------------------------------- "All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke
I think it's a spoof, which is to say more bark than true bite. I think it's a lashback against Microsoft and Vista pricing/licensing issues. I think Linux is being used in manipulative fashion to try and put pressure on Microsoft to improve/lower pricing on Vista and to fix current licensing constraints then general population isn't happy with. Frankly if Dell could accurately get the median age of those wanting a Vista alternative named "{Distro} Linux" they would find "...these aren't the droids you are looking for..." and Dell knows it. This is a publicity stunt to get Microsoft to enter a reduced pricing relationship with just Dell (Dell hopes) or everyone (still good but not as good as just Dell) then Dell can charge the same but keep more in the vaults for themselves or they can restructure pricing a touch and still make more money but also keep more in the coffers. I'm blowing my whistle and calling this a publicity/media stunt with one goal in mind... Getting Microsoft to wiggle on a few "terms" to give Dell a market advantage and honestly I think it's going to work.
My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, Commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered process, husband to a murdered thread. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next. - Gladiator I work to live. I do not live to work. My clients do not seem capable of grasping this fact.
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I think it's a spoof, which is to say more bark than true bite. I think it's a lashback against Microsoft and Vista pricing/licensing issues. I think Linux is being used in manipulative fashion to try and put pressure on Microsoft to improve/lower pricing on Vista and to fix current licensing constraints then general population isn't happy with. Frankly if Dell could accurately get the median age of those wanting a Vista alternative named "{Distro} Linux" they would find "...these aren't the droids you are looking for..." and Dell knows it. This is a publicity stunt to get Microsoft to enter a reduced pricing relationship with just Dell (Dell hopes) or everyone (still good but not as good as just Dell) then Dell can charge the same but keep more in the vaults for themselves or they can restructure pricing a touch and still make more money but also keep more in the coffers. I'm blowing my whistle and calling this a publicity/media stunt with one goal in mind... Getting Microsoft to wiggle on a few "terms" to give Dell a market advantage and honestly I think it's going to work.
My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, Commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered process, husband to a murdered thread. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next. - Gladiator I work to live. I do not live to work. My clients do not seem capable of grasping this fact.
naaaaaaaa some people actually like linux ur too cynical
"there is no spoon" {me}
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naaaaaaaa some people actually like linux ur too cynical
"there is no spoon" {me}
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naaaaaaaa some people actually like linux ur too cynical
"there is no spoon" {me}
That's got nothing really to do with the point I'm making. I didn't say some people didn't like Linux. I think Dell courting Linux in the mainstream-to-the-masses is a ploy on their part to put pressure on Microsoft. Vista pricing is hurting sales because it's a lot more money and people are leary to move to it based upon the mixed reception it's had so far. Dell has a few choices... Make Vista sexier so that people want to pay for it or reduce the price and thereby lower people inhibitions towards purchasing it. If Dell can lower the price they can increase their volume and historically Dell has killed/crucified their competition purely on sales volume which came from a lower price. I'm not saying people don't want Linux but those people wanting Linux already know Dell will ship Linux (I mean Dell has been shipping Linux by request for what... 3 to 5 years now right?) and they've been getting Dell Linux for a while. Those people who want Linux fall into two camps (Hard core Linux users who know exactly what they want and where to get it (95%).; Ignorant people believing the Linux hype(5%)) and those two camps have been around a bit. Dell is publicizing the whole thing in order to bring pressure to Microsoft. Vista price and the new licensing has really caused a lot of concern for OEM's and end users. True Linux die hards don't need some poll to get Linux. Odds are the box they get from Dell with Linux on it will be formatted and rebuilt by hand and with all the love and care those used to running Linux provide and true Linux users are a meticulously picky lot that want just the right configuration in just the right concentration. This is purely a stunt by Dell to get Microsoft's attention because Dell didn't have market share problems until Vista hit RC1.
My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, Commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered process, husband to a murdered thread. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next. - Gladiator I work to live. I do not live to work. My clients do not seem capable of grasping this fact.
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That's got nothing really to do with the point I'm making. I didn't say some people didn't like Linux. I think Dell courting Linux in the mainstream-to-the-masses is a ploy on their part to put pressure on Microsoft. Vista pricing is hurting sales because it's a lot more money and people are leary to move to it based upon the mixed reception it's had so far. Dell has a few choices... Make Vista sexier so that people want to pay for it or reduce the price and thereby lower people inhibitions towards purchasing it. If Dell can lower the price they can increase their volume and historically Dell has killed/crucified their competition purely on sales volume which came from a lower price. I'm not saying people don't want Linux but those people wanting Linux already know Dell will ship Linux (I mean Dell has been shipping Linux by request for what... 3 to 5 years now right?) and they've been getting Dell Linux for a while. Those people who want Linux fall into two camps (Hard core Linux users who know exactly what they want and where to get it (95%).; Ignorant people believing the Linux hype(5%)) and those two camps have been around a bit. Dell is publicizing the whole thing in order to bring pressure to Microsoft. Vista price and the new licensing has really caused a lot of concern for OEM's and end users. True Linux die hards don't need some poll to get Linux. Odds are the box they get from Dell with Linux on it will be formatted and rebuilt by hand and with all the love and care those used to running Linux provide and true Linux users are a meticulously picky lot that want just the right configuration in just the right concentration. This is purely a stunt by Dell to get Microsoft's attention because Dell didn't have market share problems until Vista hit RC1.
My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, Commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered process, husband to a murdered thread. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next. - Gladiator I work to live. I do not live to work. My clients do not seem capable of grasping this fact.
i think you see the world too much related to windows
"there is no spoon" {me}
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l a u r e n wrote:
ur too cynical
...said Ms. Bright-Eyed Idealist... :rolleyes:
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...the wind blows over it and it is gone, and its place remembers it no more...
awwwwwwwwwwwww shucks :rolleyes:
"there is no spoon" {me}
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i think you see the world too much related to windows
"there is no spoon" {me}
Not really. I spend about 60% of each day on Windows and divide the rest of my time between Linux and a Mac. What I see is that Dell is hurting from lack of money, that's attributed to lack of sales. Lack of sales makes it harder to profit. Dell is sending a message to Microsoft that says, "Your stuff is to expensive and it's hurting our business. While you contemplate that problem we are going to increase our efforts towards mainstream adaptation of Linux and that's going to put more cash in our coffers because Linux is priced just right for our business model and we think there's enough demand for it for us to shift our business paradigm in that direction." If you don't think Dell isn't serving two purposes in this then nothing I can say really matters. But let me conclude with this. Balmer is an insane, unstable nut and his top is going to blow right through Redmond and keep on going as more companies start moving the Dell direction to get their profit back. If you don't believe me let's just watch the press for a bit and see what happens. You can see signs of it already, "Vista sales lower than expected." is something I've seen a few times now. This is the great game of business and it's going to be a show that allows the customer to win. Market fluctuation is largely caused by vendors and suppliers working out the details. It's not that I'm seeing too much of Windows it's that I'm seeing economics and economics drive business.
My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, Commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered process, husband to a murdered thread. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next. - Gladiator I work to live. I do not live to work. My clients do not seem capable of grasping this fact.
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Not really. I spend about 60% of each day on Windows and divide the rest of my time between Linux and a Mac. What I see is that Dell is hurting from lack of money, that's attributed to lack of sales. Lack of sales makes it harder to profit. Dell is sending a message to Microsoft that says, "Your stuff is to expensive and it's hurting our business. While you contemplate that problem we are going to increase our efforts towards mainstream adaptation of Linux and that's going to put more cash in our coffers because Linux is priced just right for our business model and we think there's enough demand for it for us to shift our business paradigm in that direction." If you don't think Dell isn't serving two purposes in this then nothing I can say really matters. But let me conclude with this. Balmer is an insane, unstable nut and his top is going to blow right through Redmond and keep on going as more companies start moving the Dell direction to get their profit back. If you don't believe me let's just watch the press for a bit and see what happens. You can see signs of it already, "Vista sales lower than expected." is something I've seen a few times now. This is the great game of business and it's going to be a show that allows the customer to win. Market fluctuation is largely caused by vendors and suppliers working out the details. It's not that I'm seeing too much of Windows it's that I'm seeing economics and economics drive business.
My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, Commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered process, husband to a murdered thread. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next. - Gladiator I work to live. I do not live to work. My clients do not seem capable of grasping this fact.
ummmmmm i think you dont understand but its ok :)
"there is no spoon" {me}
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i think you see the world too much related to windows
"there is no spoon" {me}
Well, i do think he underestimates the "bought the hype" camp - there sure seem to be more "my hacker bf says Linux is kewl" chicks around than would fit into 5%. But keep in mind, this is Dell we're talking about - "complex kickback schemes on CPUs" Dell. The Dell that's refused to sell Linux or clean systems for years, just because they lose out on hidden promotional $$$ that way. Why wouldn't they have a game going now...
----
...the wind blows over it and it is gone, and its place remembers it no more...
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ummmmmm i think you dont understand but its ok :)
"there is no spoon" {me}
l a u r e n wrote:
naaaaaaaa some people actually like linux i think you see the world too much related to windows ummmmmm i think you dont understand
So far this (above) is all you've said. When it comes to understanding something there's not much to understand. I agreed that some people like Linux. I disagreed that I see the world too much related to Windows. I don't. I use 4 different Linux operating systems, 2 different Mac operating systems and Windows. (But as Microsoft has greater than 80% of the desktop market share I'd guess there's a lot to see from the Windows angle and Dell would like there slice of that 80% I'd guess...) I'd say that makes me very well rounded. I used Linux all through college and enjoyed it. I have a $4000 laptop that is only running Linux. I'm also a business owner and I understand things that motivate businesses to make decisions. If I'm not understanding something it's because you haven't really expressed anything other than opinion and opinions by nature do not need to be understood. It's your opinion. If you want me to understand something then please use tangible concepts and ideas not opinions and bias's largely directed at me. I've been using Linux since 1993 when I first entered school and I've used it constantly since Red Hat 6.0 (circa 1997/1998). I've scripted the shell, I've built $8000 kiosks running Linux and some of the most sophisticated wireless gear I've ever seen. Please help me to understand.;)
My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, Commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered process, husband to a murdered thread. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next. - Gladiator I work to live. I do not live to work. My clients do not seem capable of grasping this fact.
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l a u r e n wrote:
naaaaaaaa some people actually like linux i think you see the world too much related to windows ummmmmm i think you dont understand
So far this (above) is all you've said. When it comes to understanding something there's not much to understand. I agreed that some people like Linux. I disagreed that I see the world too much related to Windows. I don't. I use 4 different Linux operating systems, 2 different Mac operating systems and Windows. (But as Microsoft has greater than 80% of the desktop market share I'd guess there's a lot to see from the Windows angle and Dell would like there slice of that 80% I'd guess...) I'd say that makes me very well rounded. I used Linux all through college and enjoyed it. I have a $4000 laptop that is only running Linux. I'm also a business owner and I understand things that motivate businesses to make decisions. If I'm not understanding something it's because you haven't really expressed anything other than opinion and opinions by nature do not need to be understood. It's your opinion. If you want me to understand something then please use tangible concepts and ideas not opinions and bias's largely directed at me. I've been using Linux since 1993 when I first entered school and I've used it constantly since Red Hat 6.0 (circa 1997/1998). I've scripted the shell, I've built $8000 kiosks running Linux and some of the most sophisticated wireless gear I've ever seen. Please help me to understand.;)
My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, Commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered process, husband to a murdered thread. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next. - Gladiator I work to live. I do not live to work. My clients do not seem capable of grasping this fact.
you see it all as a ploy to get pricing on windows down maybe its because enough people are asking for linux on their machines ever thought about that?
"there is no spoon" {me}
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Well, i do think he underestimates the "bought the hype" camp - there sure seem to be more "my hacker bf says Linux is kewl" chicks around than would fit into 5%. But keep in mind, this is Dell we're talking about - "complex kickback schemes on CPUs" Dell. The Dell that's refused to sell Linux or clean systems for years, just because they lose out on hidden promotional $$$ that way. Why wouldn't they have a game going now...
----
...the wind blows over it and it is gone, and its place remembers it no more...
bacause maybe its good for them to have a loss leader (if it is) so they get a foot in the linux camp just in case it comes to anything ... and because a lot of businesses are running hetrogenous stuff now and want a rounded supplier prolly many other reasons too i just was saying i think he is too cynical and sees the world too much as windows from whichever way it comes
"there is no spoon" {me}
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you see it all as a ploy to get pricing on windows down maybe its because enough people are asking for linux on their machines ever thought about that?
"there is no spoon" {me}
Ah! We've been talking about two different things. I've just been talking about the Poll as a stunt. No I do think people want Linux on their machines. But I've been on the Dell website several times a year for 3 years and every time I've ordered getting Linux has always been an option. That's the point I'm making. It's not like Dell is just *now* listening to the customer and adding Linux. Dell has been listening to the customer for years. Linux has been an option and so have the XP refunds from Dell for quite a while and I believe that's due to Linux demand. I think this latest poll and the press around it is a multi-faceted ploy. I do believe that Dell is reaching out more proactively to a userbase that wants Linux for sure. I also think the are sending a message to Redmond. I don't see this purely as an open gesture of friendship to Linux users. I also see it as a political/economic strategy on their part. But yes, absolutely! Demand for Linux is definitely on the rise and Vista is bolstering that demand. Even without the mixed reception of Vista, Linux demand is going to increase. Linux just makes too much sense for businesses not to embrace it if it suits their business model and more and more businesses are changing their model to make Linux adoption easier. So yeah, I agree with that.
My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, Commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered process, husband to a murdered thread. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next. - Gladiator I work to live. I do not live to work. My clients do not seem capable of grasping this fact.
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bacause maybe its good for them to have a loss leader (if it is) so they get a foot in the linux camp just in case it comes to anything ... and because a lot of businesses are running hetrogenous stuff now and want a rounded supplier prolly many other reasons too i just was saying i think he is too cynical and sees the world too much as windows from whichever way it comes
"there is no spoon" {me}
l a u r e n wrote:
bacause maybe its good for them to have a loss leader (if it is) so they get a foot in the linux camp just in case it comes to anything ... and because a lot of businesses are running hetrogenous stuff now and want a rounded supplier
Well, see... that's probably all true. But, IMHO, it's been true for years now, and Dell hasn't been interested, except on the server side of things (which kinda fits in with the hetrogenous supplier draw). So long story short, you're both cynics. Rex is cynical about Dell, and you're cynical about his cynicism. Meanwhile, I think Dell has ulterior motives and we're all gonna benefit from them. See? Optimism!
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...the wind blows over it and it is gone, and its place remembers it no more...
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Ah! We've been talking about two different things. I've just been talking about the Poll as a stunt. No I do think people want Linux on their machines. But I've been on the Dell website several times a year for 3 years and every time I've ordered getting Linux has always been an option. That's the point I'm making. It's not like Dell is just *now* listening to the customer and adding Linux. Dell has been listening to the customer for years. Linux has been an option and so have the XP refunds from Dell for quite a while and I believe that's due to Linux demand. I think this latest poll and the press around it is a multi-faceted ploy. I do believe that Dell is reaching out more proactively to a userbase that wants Linux for sure. I also think the are sending a message to Redmond. I don't see this purely as an open gesture of friendship to Linux users. I also see it as a political/economic strategy on their part. But yes, absolutely! Demand for Linux is definitely on the rise and Vista is bolstering that demand. Even without the mixed reception of Vista, Linux demand is going to increase. Linux just makes too much sense for businesses not to embrace it if it suits their business model and more and more businesses are changing their model to make Linux adoption easier. So yeah, I agree with that.
My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, Commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered process, husband to a murdered thread. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next. - Gladiator I work to live. I do not live to work. My clients do not seem capable of grasping this fact.
ok ok ... miscommunication ... my bad the poll is exactly a waste of time like you say ... linux users already know what they want and will install it anyways ... they just want hardware that works with linux :cool:
"there is no spoon" {me}
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ok ok ... miscommunication ... my bad the poll is exactly a waste of time like you say ... linux users already know what they want and will install it anyways ... they just want hardware that works with linux :cool:
"there is no spoon" {me}
l a u r e n wrote:
linux users already know what they want and will install it anyways ... they just want hardware that works with linux
Yup! I couldn't agree more with that.:rose::cool:
My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, Commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered process, husband to a murdered thread. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next. - Gladiator I work to live. I do not live to work. My clients do not seem capable of grasping this fact.
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l a u r e n wrote:
bacause maybe its good for them to have a loss leader (if it is) so they get a foot in the linux camp just in case it comes to anything ... and because a lot of businesses are running hetrogenous stuff now and want a rounded supplier
Well, see... that's probably all true. But, IMHO, it's been true for years now, and Dell hasn't been interested, except on the server side of things (which kinda fits in with the hetrogenous supplier draw). So long story short, you're both cynics. Rex is cynical about Dell, and you're cynical about his cynicism. Meanwhile, I think Dell has ulterior motives and we're all gonna benefit from them. See? Optimism!
----
...the wind blows over it and it is gone, and its place remembers it no more...
I'm cynical towards anything wanting my money... which includes my children.:laugh:
My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, Commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered process, husband to a murdered thread. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next. - Gladiator I work to live. I do not live to work. My clients do not seem capable of grasping this fact.
