Start-up network admins read this:
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Shog9 wrote:
way too many things with my job that i'm unhappy about but can't seem to change
Then clearly you should not be working in that company as you are harming you and the company. They need an employee that wants to work and shares their goals. You clearly want a change. So, if you did not have the option to waste their time, you might already have quit and done both you and the business good ;)
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: 20 Years to Web standards or a New Dream? Latest Tech Blog Post: Corel Lightning - what is the plan?
Rocky Moore wrote:
Then clearly you should not be working in that company as you are harming you and the company.
Really? Why, because of the poor quality of the work i'm doing? Or the attitude i take towards my co-workers? See, i'd think those would be deciding factors, not the handful of youTube videos that crawl across my screen each week.
Rocky Moore wrote:
They need an employee that wants to work and shares their goals.
If i didn't want to work, i could get away with it. Heck, i could probably drop to a tenth of my current output and still get by. I don't do that because that isn't my style - i use software, not other people, to take up slack. I didn't post this as a gripe-fest. My point is simply this: i was hired to solve problems. So let me solve problems. If i feel the need to stop typing and read some fluff, or throw darts, or bake bread... and still show up later with a solution in hand, well, don't hassle me. It's my mind, i know how to use it better than you do. ;)
----
It appears that everybody is under the impression that I approve of the documentation. You probably also blame Ken Burns for supporting slavery.
--Raymond Chen on MSDN
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JoeSox wrote:
Was it his own Newsweek or the hospitals? Who was slapping it, hospital staff or nonhospital staff?
The hospital's, of course. Beats me why, but there always seem to be plenty of Newsweeks in hospitals. And this'd be the hospital's network admin doing the slapping. Presumably he'd decided that those Newsweeks weren't there for the surgeons...
JoeSox wrote:
It was probably just another rerun of M.A.S.H. anyways.
Solid mindless entertainment, that. :)
----
It appears that everybody is under the impression that I approve of the documentation. You probably also blame Ken Burns for supporting slavery.
--Raymond Chen on MSDN
Shog9 wrote:
The hospital's, of course. Beats me why, but there always seem to be plenty of Newsweeks in hospitals.
Because all the Playboys are in the Doctors' offices in their desk, to hide from the hospital's network admin.
Shog9 wrote:
And this'd be the hospital's network admin doing the slapping. Presumably he'd decided that those Newsweeks weren't there for the surgeons
Maybe because he knows that even 'Doctor Newsweek' didn't read about dead Americans in Iraq and how America disapproves of the Bush Administration, and how people are starving all over the world, and how the elderly get abused in retirement homes, he will still go and perform an operation.
Later, JoeSox "Pleasure in the job puts perfection in the work." -Aristotle CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ Last.fm
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Rocky Moore wrote:
people doing what they do not want to do
I love to do what I'm doing and there are times that I do just have to keep working even when you don't want to. If I take a long break during the day I make up the time at night so that I work the time that I am paid for. I agree on contract that you can't charge for time that you don't work on the program. Are you saying that you time exactly when you are working or you just work it out to the closest hour?
Andymac4182 wrote:
Are you saying that you time exactly when you are working or you just work it out to the closest hour?
Better than a salary employee does! Yes, I track time within minutes of the actual time and at times, have to eat some when I get off on a tangent (may spend too much time trying to find the answer to a problem than justified or those days when I look for something). But there are many contract developers that can hose their clients, but that is client beware, not much that can be done. Just like it is employer beware and I believe they should be ;)
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: 20 Years to Web standards or a New Dream? Latest Tech Blog Post: Corel Lightning - what is the plan?
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I think it is real simple, if you are working for someone, you should be working for them, not checking your person email, not scanning for the new TV you want to buy, not keeping up with the latest ebay finds, you are there to work, it is best to be about it and not playing around. It is sad, but in today's world one of the biggest shopping days after Thanksgiving is on the following Monday when people get back to work. A business is just that a business, if people want to play or whatever, then they should do it in their off time. As for me, I work for myself, by myself. I just wish I could get my lazy employee to work and quite spending so much time on CP... Vista has a nice method of blocking sites, but unfortunately, I know the password and can always unblock them :)
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: 20 Years to Web standards or a New Dream? Latest Tech Blog Post: Corel Lightning - what is the plan?
Agreed, you are there to work. But I know how much work it can be to sit on a chair and code for hours and hours on end. You have to admit that every now and again you want to just take a tiny break. Here is something you can relate to, I have been to companies that block websites based on its popularity. This means that CP would have been blocked LONG ago. [COMPLETELY OT] I read your blog about web standards and you seem to have had exactly the same idea I had. I am considering writing a draft of a new standard and see what kind of interest it picks up. Would you be interested in helping out with it on a later date?
Brad Australian - unknown PHP Developer on "Job Prospect" Requirement: * Experience working with XML, XSL, XPath Comment: and other things starting with X.
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Shog9 wrote:
The hospital's, of course. Beats me why, but there always seem to be plenty of Newsweeks in hospitals.
Because all the Playboys are in the Doctors' offices in their desk, to hide from the hospital's network admin.
Shog9 wrote:
And this'd be the hospital's network admin doing the slapping. Presumably he'd decided that those Newsweeks weren't there for the surgeons
Maybe because he knows that even 'Doctor Newsweek' didn't read about dead Americans in Iraq and how America disapproves of the Bush Administration, and how people are starving all over the world, and how the elderly get abused in retirement homes, he will still go and perform an operation.
Later, JoeSox "Pleasure in the job puts perfection in the work." -Aristotle CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ Last.fm
JoeSox wrote:
Maybe because he knows that even 'Doctor Newsweek' didn't read about dead Americans in Iraq and how America disapproves of the Bush Administration, and how people are starving all over the world, and how the elderly get abused in retirement homes, he will still go and perform an operation.
Well, maybe he knows it, maybe he doesn't. But he was hired to manage the network, not give grief to others.
----
It appears that everybody is under the impression that I approve of the documentation. You probably also blame Ken Burns for supporting slavery.
--Raymond Chen on MSDN
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Rocky Moore wrote:
Then clearly you should not be working in that company as you are harming you and the company.
Really? Why, because of the poor quality of the work i'm doing? Or the attitude i take towards my co-workers? See, i'd think those would be deciding factors, not the handful of youTube videos that crawl across my screen each week.
Rocky Moore wrote:
They need an employee that wants to work and shares their goals.
If i didn't want to work, i could get away with it. Heck, i could probably drop to a tenth of my current output and still get by. I don't do that because that isn't my style - i use software, not other people, to take up slack. I didn't post this as a gripe-fest. My point is simply this: i was hired to solve problems. So let me solve problems. If i feel the need to stop typing and read some fluff, or throw darts, or bake bread... and still show up later with a solution in hand, well, don't hassle me. It's my mind, i know how to use it better than you do. ;)
----
It appears that everybody is under the impression that I approve of the documentation. You probably also blame Ken Burns for supporting slavery.
--Raymond Chen on MSDN
Shog9 wrote:
Really? Why, because of the poor quality of the work i'm doing?
It has nothing to do with quality, you say you are not happy there, so you should find a place were you are.
Shog9 wrote:
See, i'd think those would be deciding factors, not the handful of youTube videos that crawl across my screen each week.
So, do you tell your employer that you are just playing around for a while until you get back to work? If you employer is happy with that, it is one thing, but if it is done without their knowledge and they think you are working then it is plain theft!
Shog9 wrote:
I didn't post this as a gripe-fest.
Its not. Did not mean to step on your toes if I happened to do so. Just seems like you are not happy and that is a horrible what to spend a life.
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: 20 Years to Web standards or a New Dream? Latest Tech Blog Post: Corel Lightning - what is the plan?
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JoeSox wrote:
Well, it sounds like you may have the authority to ask your net admin yourself why your company is blocking sites. Who knows, maybe the bosses wife is on that site that just got blocked. :rolleyes:
I just happen to be the boss and I would certainly hope that never happens. Anyway I think that encouraging employees to bring in there own equipment that is completely non work related would have a negative effect on productivity. If they have a window open all the time for MySpace or whatever else they do then they are more likely to be distracted more often. If they just check up on things while they take a little breather then that is beneficial.
Brad Australian - Bradml on "MVP Status" If this was posted in a programming board please rate my answer
Bradml wrote:
I just happen to be the boss and I would certainly hope that never happens.
If you are the boss, then why don't you tell your network admin to stop being the FCC?
Bradml wrote:
Anyway I think that encouraging employees to bring in there own equipment that is completely non work related would have a negative effect on productivity.
It is not exactly "encouraging", it is simply leaving that as an option. But using the company's pc for non work related activities is better? This would be sending a mixed message that successful managers can not and do not practice. If you want to increase productivity then create an environment that makes it difficult but not entirely eliminate non work related activities. Why are office pools illegal but everyone participates in them for $. Because the law is there to enforce abuse. If someone is abusing then the team takes the hit. One bad apple can spoil the bunch. When I was in bootcamp if one person made a major mistake the entire company would have to pay the consequences. We were a team.
Later, JoeSox "Pleasure in the job puts perfection in the work." -Aristotle CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ Last.fm
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Shog9 wrote:
way too many things with my job that i'm unhappy about but can't seem to change
Then clearly you should not be working in that company as you are harming you and the company. They need an employee that wants to work and shares their goals. You clearly want a change. So, if you did not have the option to waste their time, you might already have quit and done both you and the business good ;)
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: 20 Years to Web standards or a New Dream? Latest Tech Blog Post: Corel Lightning - what is the plan?
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JoeSox wrote:
Maybe because he knows that even 'Doctor Newsweek' didn't read about dead Americans in Iraq and how America disapproves of the Bush Administration, and how people are starving all over the world, and how the elderly get abused in retirement homes, he will still go and perform an operation.
Well, maybe he knows it, maybe he doesn't. But he was hired to manage the network, not give grief to others.
----
It appears that everybody is under the impression that I approve of the documentation. You probably also blame Ken Burns for supporting slavery.
--Raymond Chen on MSDN
Shog9 wrote:
Well, maybe he knows it, maybe he doesn't. But he was hired to manage the network, not give grief to others.
I agree. But what is a net admin to do when Doctors start reading Newsweeks and are always late for operations forcing the scheduled operating rooms to get behind scheduled operating times? The net admin knew this for 6 months but the Head Doctor and Head of operating room staff person finally find out of the problem and talk to the net admin?? net admin hands are tied, the situation has grown into an abuse at this point. If there were cigarette admins perhaps we would all see the world differently but their isn't cigarette admins.
Later, JoeSox "Pleasure in the job puts perfection in the work." -Aristotle CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ Last.fm
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Shog9 wrote:
Really? Why, because of the poor quality of the work i'm doing?
It has nothing to do with quality, you say you are not happy there, so you should find a place were you are.
Shog9 wrote:
See, i'd think those would be deciding factors, not the handful of youTube videos that crawl across my screen each week.
So, do you tell your employer that you are just playing around for a while until you get back to work? If you employer is happy with that, it is one thing, but if it is done without their knowledge and they think you are working then it is plain theft!
Shog9 wrote:
I didn't post this as a gripe-fest.
Its not. Did not mean to step on your toes if I happened to do so. Just seems like you are not happy and that is a horrible what to spend a life.
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: 20 Years to Web standards or a New Dream? Latest Tech Blog Post: Corel Lightning - what is the plan?
Rocky Moore wrote:
It has nothing to do with quality, you say you are not happy there, so you should find a place were you are.
That's not strictly true. I said there are aspects of the job i'm not happy with and can't seem to change - that doesn't mean i'm done trying yet. At some point, i'll either figure out a way to change them or i'll scrap the job and find another - possibly not the best way of handling things, but that's how i work. I have great co-workers, excellent flexibility, and good insurance - these things are worth a lot to me.
Rocky Moore wrote:
So, do you tell your employer that you are just playing around for a while until you get back to work? If you employer is happy with that, it is one thing, but if it is done without their knowledge and they think you are working then it is plain theft!
If i'm needed for something, i'm always available - i make sure of that. As for theft... I'm salaried - some weeks i'll put in maybe 20 hours of solid effort, other weeks it's closer to 80. There are days i do little beyond replying to email, and days i don't sleep. I guarantee you they're getting their money's worth regardless.
----
It appears that everybody is under the impression that I approve of the documentation. You probably also blame Ken Burns for supporting slavery.
--Raymond Chen on MSDN
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Bradml wrote:
I just happen to be the boss and I would certainly hope that never happens.
If you are the boss, then why don't you tell your network admin to stop being the FCC?
Bradml wrote:
Anyway I think that encouraging employees to bring in there own equipment that is completely non work related would have a negative effect on productivity.
It is not exactly "encouraging", it is simply leaving that as an option. But using the company's pc for non work related activities is better? This would be sending a mixed message that successful managers can not and do not practice. If you want to increase productivity then create an environment that makes it difficult but not entirely eliminate non work related activities. Why are office pools illegal but everyone participates in them for $. Because the law is there to enforce abuse. If someone is abusing then the team takes the hit. One bad apple can spoil the bunch. When I was in bootcamp if one person made a major mistake the entire company would have to pay the consequences. We were a team.
Later, JoeSox "Pleasure in the job puts perfection in the work." -Aristotle CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ Last.fm
JoeSox wrote:
If you are the boss, then why don't you tell your network admin to stop being the FCC?
My networks are not filtered, but I do a lot of on site work for customers that do do it. Actually successful managers keep their employees motivated whilst still productive. A team is exactly what you achieve by not creating an "us and them" mentality between the admins and the developers. We are all part of a company and our roles are all critical.
Brad Australian - peterchen on "Who has the worst keyboard" Keyboard? Ha! I throw magnets over the RAM chips!
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Shog9 wrote:
Well, maybe he knows it, maybe he doesn't. But he was hired to manage the network, not give grief to others.
I agree. But what is a net admin to do when Doctors start reading Newsweeks and are always late for operations forcing the scheduled operating rooms to get behind scheduled operating times? The net admin knew this for 6 months but the Head Doctor and Head of operating room staff person finally find out of the problem and talk to the net admin?? net admin hands are tied, the situation has grown into an abuse at this point. If there were cigarette admins perhaps we would all see the world differently but their isn't cigarette admins.
Later, JoeSox "Pleasure in the job puts perfection in the work." -Aristotle CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ Last.fm
JoeSox wrote:
But what is a net admin to do when Doctors start reading Newsweeks and are always late for operations forcing the scheduled operating rooms to get behind scheduled operating times?
Well, if surgeons are late, that's a problem regardless of why. I'd say the first thing to do in that case is to bring the slow slicer in and ask, "what's up?" Maybe if you get Harry Seldon as your adviser you can keep things running smoothly by subtly tweaking things and never actually talking to individual people about what their problems are... but this is Real Life. ;)
----
It appears that everybody is under the impression that I approve of the documentation. You probably also blame Ken Burns for supporting slavery.
--Raymond Chen on MSDN
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JoeSox wrote:
If you are the boss, then why don't you tell your network admin to stop being the FCC?
My networks are not filtered, but I do a lot of on site work for customers that do do it. Actually successful managers keep their employees motivated whilst still productive. A team is exactly what you achieve by not creating an "us and them" mentality between the admins and the developers. We are all part of a company and our roles are all critical.
Brad Australian - peterchen on "Who has the worst keyboard" Keyboard? Ha! I throw magnets over the RAM chips!
Bradml wrote:
My networks are not filtered, but I do a lot of on site work for customers that do do it.
Right, these are not your employees you are talking about. Sorry, that wasn't clear or a detail that slipped by me.
Bradml wrote:
Actually successful managers keep their employees motivated whilst still productive.
They also get forced to stop abusive behavior or prevent abusive behavior from happening.
Later, JoeSox "Pleasure in the job puts perfection in the work." -Aristotle CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ Last.fm
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Bradml wrote:
My networks are not filtered, but I do a lot of on site work for customers that do do it.
Right, these are not your employees you are talking about. Sorry, that wasn't clear or a detail that slipped by me.
Bradml wrote:
Actually successful managers keep their employees motivated whilst still productive.
They also get forced to stop abusive behavior or prevent abusive behavior from happening.
Later, JoeSox "Pleasure in the job puts perfection in the work." -Aristotle CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ Last.fm
JoeSox wrote:
They also get forced to stop abusive behavior or prevent abusive behavior from happening.
I'm sorry, I don;t see how this is related.
Brad Australian - peterchen on "Who has the worst keyboard" Keyboard? Ha! I throw magnets over the RAM chips!
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JoeSox wrote:
But what is a net admin to do when Doctors start reading Newsweeks and are always late for operations forcing the scheduled operating rooms to get behind scheduled operating times?
Well, if surgeons are late, that's a problem regardless of why. I'd say the first thing to do in that case is to bring the slow slicer in and ask, "what's up?" Maybe if you get Harry Seldon as your adviser you can keep things running smoothly by subtly tweaking things and never actually talking to individual people about what their problems are... but this is Real Life. ;)
----
It appears that everybody is under the impression that I approve of the documentation. You probably also blame Ken Burns for supporting slavery.
--Raymond Chen on MSDN
Shog9 wrote:
Well, if surgeons are late, that's a problem regardless of why. I'd say the first thing to do in that case is to bring the slow slicer in and ask, "what's up?"
This person is the net admin, why would he care if doctors are late until someone forces him to do something. In all probablility, he is busy putting out other important network fires.
Shog9 wrote:
Maybe if you get Harry Seldon as your adviser you can keep things running smoothly by subtly tweaking things and never actually talking to individual people about what their problems are... but this is Real Life.
Oh, like a reality tv show?:)
Later, JoeSox "Pleasure in the job puts perfection in the work." -Aristotle CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ Last.fm
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Agreed, you are there to work. But I know how much work it can be to sit on a chair and code for hours and hours on end. You have to admit that every now and again you want to just take a tiny break. Here is something you can relate to, I have been to companies that block websites based on its popularity. This means that CP would have been blocked LONG ago. [COMPLETELY OT] I read your blog about web standards and you seem to have had exactly the same idea I had. I am considering writing a draft of a new standard and see what kind of interest it picks up. Would you be interested in helping out with it on a later date?
Brad Australian - unknown PHP Developer on "Job Prospect" Requirement: * Experience working with XML, XSL, XPath Comment: and other things starting with X.
Bradml wrote:
Here is something you can relate to, I have been to companies that block websites based on its popularity. This means that CP would have been blocked LONG ago.
Yeah, there are some businesses that take it too far or use the wrong tools. I know one place I worked at blocked DejaVu (been so long since Google bought them I don't remember the domain for sure). After a while they got their head out of their lower parts to allow access to it :)
Bradml wrote:
I read your blog about web standards and you seem to have had exactly the same idea I had. I am considering writing a draft of a new standard and see what kind of interest it picks up. Would you be interested in helping out with it on a later date?
Sure, just drop me a note. I plan to look more into WPF/E in a few months. I know WPF sure has a lot of nice features and their box model is pretty cool.
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: 20 Years to Web standards or a New Dream? Latest Tech Blog Post: Corel Lightning - what is the plan?
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Rocky Moore wrote:
It has nothing to do with quality, you say you are not happy there, so you should find a place were you are.
That's not strictly true. I said there are aspects of the job i'm not happy with and can't seem to change - that doesn't mean i'm done trying yet. At some point, i'll either figure out a way to change them or i'll scrap the job and find another - possibly not the best way of handling things, but that's how i work. I have great co-workers, excellent flexibility, and good insurance - these things are worth a lot to me.
Rocky Moore wrote:
So, do you tell your employer that you are just playing around for a while until you get back to work? If you employer is happy with that, it is one thing, but if it is done without their knowledge and they think you are working then it is plain theft!
If i'm needed for something, i'm always available - i make sure of that. As for theft... I'm salaried - some weeks i'll put in maybe 20 hours of solid effort, other weeks it's closer to 80. There are days i do little beyond replying to email, and days i don't sleep. I guarantee you they're getting their money's worth regardless.
----
It appears that everybody is under the impression that I approve of the documentation. You probably also blame Ken Burns for supporting slavery.
--Raymond Chen on MSDN
Shog9 wrote:
I have great co-workers, excellent flexibility, and good insurance - these things are worth a lot to me.
Yeah, to most people :)
Shog9 wrote:
I guarantee you they're getting their money's worth regardless.
Well, this is the point. As long as the business comes out ahead, that is great. There are those that do not though and only put in 30 hours of work for a 40 hour week then complain if asked to put in some extra time. From the sound of it, you are more like on flex time, take here give there.
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: 20 Years to Web standards or a New Dream? Latest Tech Blog Post: Corel Lightning - what is the plan?
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JoeSox wrote:
They also get forced to stop abusive behavior or prevent abusive behavior from happening.
I'm sorry, I don;t see how this is related.
Brad Australian - peterchen on "Who has the worst keyboard" Keyboard? Ha! I throw magnets over the RAM chips!
Bradml wrote:
I'm sorry, I don;t see how this is related.
Well that's obvious.:rolleyes: Here, check these[^] stats out. Its an older document but I bet todays numbers of even worse.
Later, JoeSox "Pleasure in the job puts perfection in the work." -Aristotle CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ Last.fm
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Bradml wrote:
I'm sorry, I don;t see how this is related.
Well that's obvious.:rolleyes: Here, check these[^] stats out. Its an older document but I bet todays numbers of even worse.
Later, JoeSox "Pleasure in the job puts perfection in the work." -Aristotle CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ Last.fm
Two things:
- That is not exactly the most credible source as they are trying to sell something through that document.
- I agree, sexual or abusive content is unacceptable in the workplace and should not ever be tolerated.
That being said that does not change the fact that employees should not have websites blocked (apart from pornographic ones)
Brad Australian - unknown PHP Developer on "Job Prospect" Requirement: * Experience working with XML, XSL, XPath Comment: and other things starting with X.
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Ok I have seen this in way too many companies in the last couple days: website blocking. Guys this is not right, it inspires distrust and a us and them mentality between management and workers. I am not saying that you cannot block anything, in fact i have a long list of what you can block:
- Pornography
After that there is nothing that truly justifies blocking. Buy I hear screaming.... "What about productivity".... well I will tell you how I handle this: I monitor the browsing habits of every employee. This means I can get the amount of time that is spent browsing certain websites and I graph it all. Then I spend a couple minutes every week looking through the graphs and look for the high browsing activity. If this happens to be MySpace then I look at which employees are using it the most and make a note of it. If this happens continually I just have a casual conversation with them and ask they don't visit the site as much. Now I have hardly had to do that because they know I will pick it up on it and also they are generally a great bunch anyway. One thing to be careful about here is that you may upset an employee if you come out of the blue and tell them to stop reading so many emails, so just use tact. Also it helps to do it in a group without specifying certain people. Does anyone have a strict network administrator?
Brad Australian - Christian Graus on "Best books for VBscript" A big thick one, so you can whack yourself on the head with it.
it inspires distrust and a us and them mentality between management and workers.
It sure does, and whats more important is that it does not work. At least a few employees will be able to bypass it without having *broken* any rules (unmoitored gateways, proxies, torr etc). - sajith m