Questions for those who know
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What I said was a massive simplification, and you're right: the gravitational forces would have battled against the expansion and won. The trick here is to then introduce an inflationary stage whereby the universe itself expands at a rate faster than light. It's not the bits that make up the universe that expand, but the underlying space-time itself. 'Honey, I shrunk the Universe' in reverse. Things quickly settle down and the universe now has a head start on gravity and away we go. The point here is that none of us have ever experienced anything vaguely like this in our everyday, intuitive lives. Throwing in an 'inflationary' stage may seem like a magical cop-out, but then again Quantum mechanics is totally non-inuitive too, and not only is the theory sound but so is the practice. Anyway, I can see another huge Cosmology thread happening here and unfortunately I've got a big, big day of work ahead, so I'm gonna have to walk away from this one. cheers, Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote: Anyway, I can see another huge Cosmology thread happening here and unfortunately I've got a big, big day of work ahead, so I'm gonna have to walk away from this one. What a shame :-( Yes your "inflationary stage" seems sensible to me. However where I see difficulty is light superceding the limits of the Universe (if we consider it finite and the etxterior not a vaccum) What I'm really trying to articulate though Chris is that I'm not going to be greatly surprised oneday if someone of authority states, "The Universe is 42 Billion years old", because I can easily imagine that some of the current thoughts are way off track. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
More about me :-)
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Christian Graus wrote: I don't think God created the world and set things in motion so that physical evidence would trick us. I'd actually kind of hate to live in a world created by a God who set out to fool and confuse people..... It isn't to say that God tried to trick us. But people have the knack of getting confused in most creative ways:)
Ignorant wrote: But people have the knack of getting confused in most creative ways So correct, God tells us something in scriptures and we try to read other interpretations into it. From Exodus: Thou shalt not steal ! Now how many ways can that be interpreted. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
More about me :-)
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Christian Graus wrote: I'd actually kind of hate to live in a world created by a God who set out to fool and confuse people..... But he does :-( Mathew 13 :: 10-14 13:10 Then the disciples came to him and said, "Why do you speak to them in parables?" 13:11 He replied, "You have been given the opportunity to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but they have not. 13:12 For whoever has will be given more, and will have an abundance. But whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 13:13 For this reason I speak to them in parables: although they see they do not see, and although they hear they do not hear nor do they understand. 13:14 And concerning them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says: 'You will listen carefully yet will never understand, you will look closely yet will never comprehend. :-) So can you understand Christian ? Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
More about me :-)
****Colin Davies wrote: So can you understand Christian ? Actually, the problem was not that God was hiding things, although they were hidden in parables, but that the things of God are 'Spiritually discerned'. ****Colin Davies wrote: For whoever has will be given more, and will have an abundance. But whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. Those who have a little ( they have read the Bible and tried to understand it ), will lose what they have, and those who have a lot ( who have obeyed the Gospel and have both recieved and walked in the Spirit ), will inherit all things. I read the Bible for years before I became a Christian, and only after recieving the Holy Spirit with evidence was I able to understand it. But just like the people who Jesus spoke to, the message always impressed me, even if I could not make sense of it. Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. And you don't spend much time with the opposite sex working day and night, unless the pizza delivery person happens to be young, cute, single and female. I can assure you, I've consumed more than a programmer's allotment of pizza, and these conditions have never aligned. - Christopher Duncan - 18/04/2002
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****Colin Davies wrote: So can you understand Christian ? Actually, the problem was not that God was hiding things, although they were hidden in parables, but that the things of God are 'Spiritually discerned'. ****Colin Davies wrote: For whoever has will be given more, and will have an abundance. But whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. Those who have a little ( they have read the Bible and tried to understand it ), will lose what they have, and those who have a lot ( who have obeyed the Gospel and have both recieved and walked in the Spirit ), will inherit all things. I read the Bible for years before I became a Christian, and only after recieving the Holy Spirit with evidence was I able to understand it. But just like the people who Jesus spoke to, the message always impressed me, even if I could not make sense of it. Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. And you don't spend much time with the opposite sex working day and night, unless the pizza delivery person happens to be young, cute, single and female. I can assure you, I've consumed more than a programmer's allotment of pizza, and these conditions have never aligned. - Christopher Duncan - 18/04/2002
Christian Graus wrote: Actually, the problem was not that God was hiding things, although they were hidden in parables, but that the things of God are 'Spiritually discerned'. I think it appears we disagree, I'm sure it shows that God doesn't wish to allow just anyone to have knowledge of the Truth, and wants to keep it exclusive to those who take the time to find out. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
More about me :-)
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Because a) the stuck their thumb outside and went 'hmm - the universe is slightly warm, and it's warm everywhere'. The universe is slowly cooling, so if it's X degrees now, then it was Y degrees such and such a time ago. b) The universe is expanding. If everything is expanding then it means at one point everything was closer together. c) scientists have really, really big telescopes. Light travels at a constant velocity so they can see back in time. 15 billion is as far as they can see back. Put '15 billion' in equations (a) and (b) and you get a very, very big bang. cheers, Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote: Because a) the stuck their thumb outside and went 'hmm - the universe is slightly warm, and it's warm everywhere'. The universe is slowly cooling, so if it's X degrees now, then it was Y degrees such and such a time ago. b) The universe is expanding. If everything is expanding then it means at one point everything was closer together. c) scientists have really, really big telescopes. Light travels at a constant velocity so they can see back in time. 15 billion is as far as they can see back. Put '15 billion' in equations (a) and (b) and you get a very, very big bang. BRILLIANT Chris, absolutely Brilliant!!! I never saw it put as simple and concise as that. Cool! :cool: :cool: :cool:
Regards, Nish Native CPian. Born and brought up on CP. With the CP blood in him.
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Ignorant wrote: Is this the right forum to ask these questions or should it be the operating systems/sys admin forum? LOL !!!! I believe in God, I don't believe in evolution. I also believe in the big bang, and that the earth is more than 6,000 years old. Reading the Bible without making assumptions does not contradict these things. I don't think God created the world and set things in motion so that physical evidence would trick us. I'd actually kind of hate to live in a world created by a God who set out to fool and confuse people..... Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. And you don't spend much time with the opposite sex working day and night, unless the pizza delivery person happens to be young, cute, single and female. I can assure you, I've consumed more than a programmer's allotment of pizza, and these conditions have never aligned. - Christopher Duncan - 18/04/2002
Christian Graus wrote: I don't think God created the world and set things in motion so that physical evidence would trick us. I'd actually kind of hate to live in a world created by a God who set out to fool and confuse people..... That's cool. *If* there was a god then it sure wouldn't be one that'd make the earth like it is now :-) Nish
Regards, Nish Native CPian. Born and brought up on CP. With the CP blood in him.
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Ignorant wrote: But people have the knack of getting confused in most creative ways So correct, God tells us something in scriptures and we try to read other interpretations into it. From Exodus: Thou shalt not steal ! Now how many ways can that be interpreted. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
More about me :-)
****Colin Davies wrote: From Exodus: What's that? Pre-Bible ??? Nish
Regards, Nish Native CPian. Born and brought up on CP. With the CP blood in him.
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Christian Graus wrote: Actually, the problem was not that God was hiding things, although they were hidden in parables, but that the things of God are 'Spiritually discerned'. I think it appears we disagree, I'm sure it shows that God doesn't wish to allow just anyone to have knowledge of the Truth, and wants to keep it exclusive to those who take the time to find out. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
More about me :-)
You think God is hiding from people ? :confused: Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. And you don't spend much time with the opposite sex working day and night, unless the pizza delivery person happens to be young, cute, single and female. I can assure you, I've consumed more than a programmer's allotment of pizza, and these conditions have never aligned. - Christopher Duncan - 18/04/2002
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****Colin Davies wrote: From Exodus: What's that? Pre-Bible ??? Nish
Regards, Nish Native CPian. Born and brought up on CP. With the CP blood in him.
The second book of the Old Testament, it principally tells of the Exodus out of Egypt and into the promised land. Or so I seem to recall :-) Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. And you don't spend much time with the opposite sex working day and night, unless the pizza delivery person happens to be young, cute, single and female. I can assure you, I've consumed more than a programmer's allotment of pizza, and these conditions have never aligned. - Christopher Duncan - 18/04/2002
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Christian Graus wrote: I don't think God created the world and set things in motion so that physical evidence would trick us. I'd actually kind of hate to live in a world created by a God who set out to fool and confuse people..... That's cool. *If* there was a god then it sure wouldn't be one that'd make the earth like it is now :-) Nish
Regards, Nish Native CPian. Born and brought up on CP. With the CP blood in him.
Well, Nish, you know plain well this is not what I was saying. I was saying the physical evidence IS evidence of what happened, and the world as we see it, and the evidence we see, does not disagree with the Bible, although humans often misinterpret both. Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. And you don't spend much time with the opposite sex working day and night, unless the pizza delivery person happens to be young, cute, single and female. I can assure you, I've consumed more than a programmer's allotment of pizza, and these conditions have never aligned. - Christopher Duncan - 18/04/2002
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You think God is hiding from people ? :confused: Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. And you don't spend much time with the opposite sex working day and night, unless the pizza delivery person happens to be young, cute, single and female. I can assure you, I've consumed more than a programmer's allotment of pizza, and these conditions have never aligned. - Christopher Duncan - 18/04/2002
Christian Graus wrote: You think God is hiding from people ? 2 Thessalonians 2 2:11 Consequently God sends on them a deluding influence that they may believe what is false. 2:12 And so they will all be judged who have not believed the truth but have delighted in evil :-) Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
More about me :-)
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Christian Graus wrote: You think God is hiding from people ? 2 Thessalonians 2 2:11 Consequently God sends on them a deluding influence that they may believe what is false. 2:12 And so they will all be judged who have not believed the truth but have delighted in evil :-) Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
More about me :-)
You've lost the context. I believe from memory the preceding verse indicates this is speaking of backsliders, which is whole different story. Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. And you don't spend much time with the opposite sex working day and night, unless the pizza delivery person happens to be young, cute, single and female. I can assure you, I've consumed more than a programmer's allotment of pizza, and these conditions have never aligned. - Christopher Duncan - 18/04/2002
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Well, Nish, you know plain well this is not what I was saying. I was saying the physical evidence IS evidence of what happened, and the world as we see it, and the evidence we see, does not disagree with the Bible, although humans often misinterpret both. Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. And you don't spend much time with the opposite sex working day and night, unless the pizza delivery person happens to be young, cute, single and female. I can assure you, I've consumed more than a programmer's allotment of pizza, and these conditions have never aligned. - Christopher Duncan - 18/04/2002
Christian Graus wrote: Well, Nish, you know plain well this is not what I was saying I know CG, I know ;-) Was just making a dig at you :-) Nish
Regards, Nish Native CPian. Born and brought up on CP. With the CP blood in him.
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Why do scientists believe the unvierse was created from a huge explosion about 15 billion years ago? What proof do they have? Why should we believe the scientists? Did anybody really see that explosion? Why can't it be that God created the Univ. first, set it in motion and then built the laws of physics into it so that it would appear everything originated from a big bang? Is this the right forum to ask these questions or should it be the operating systems/sys admin forum? :confused:
Well, consider that everything starts out on fire, and that's a pretty good indication that they're right. "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio.
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Why do scientists believe the unvierse was created from a huge explosion about 15 billion years ago? What proof do they have? Why should we believe the scientists? Did anybody really see that explosion? Why can't it be that God created the Univ. first, set it in motion and then built the laws of physics into it so that it would appear everything originated from a big bang? Is this the right forum to ask these questions or should it be the operating systems/sys admin forum? :confused:
The Big Bang is one of the many theories out there of the creation of the universe. It's fine if you want to beleive that there was a creator of some kind, but scientists are looking at evidence to base their theories. The Big Bang theory is based on the fact, as Chris says, that the universe is expanding, which was discovered early last century. Simon I need your clothes, your boots, and your copy of VS.NET. Sonork ID 100.10024
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Chris Maunder wrote: Light travels at a constant velocity mmm, Learn something new every day ! Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
More about me :-)
Yes, it is not long ago a danish scientist succeeded in slowing down a ray of light to under 100 km/h. Allthough it sounds pretty cool, i have no idea of what could possibly be the value of this. According to my little sister it should be: "Light in a vacuum travels at a constant velocity" "It could have been worse, it could have been ME!"
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Ignorant wrote: Is this the right forum to ask these questions or should it be the operating systems/sys admin forum? LOL !!!! I believe in God, I don't believe in evolution. I also believe in the big bang, and that the earth is more than 6,000 years old. Reading the Bible without making assumptions does not contradict these things. I don't think God created the world and set things in motion so that physical evidence would trick us. I'd actually kind of hate to live in a world created by a God who set out to fool and confuse people..... Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. And you don't spend much time with the opposite sex working day and night, unless the pizza delivery person happens to be young, cute, single and female. I can assure you, I've consumed more than a programmer's allotment of pizza, and these conditions have never aligned. - Christopher Duncan - 18/04/2002
Christian Graus wrote: I'd actually kind of hate to live in a world created by a God who set out to fool and confuse people..... But how else can you explain the Platypus? :rolleyes: ____________________ David Wulff hu·mour Pronunciation Key (hymr) n. & v. Chiefly British Dave's Code Project Screensaver and Wallpaper page.
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Christian Graus wrote: I'd actually kind of hate to live in a world created by a God who set out to fool and confuse people..... But how else can you explain the Platypus? :rolleyes: ____________________ David Wulff hu·mour Pronunciation Key (hymr) n. & v. Chiefly British Dave's Code Project Screensaver and Wallpaper page.
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Everyone needs to believe something. Many people just choose incorrectly. Ignorant wrote: Ignorant That's rather insulting, doncha think? ---Shog3---_**
From now on we can call C# and MC++ "The square wheel languages"
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-- Jack Handy, The Lounge
