Things an employer cannot ask during an interview...
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I know what you are saying and I want to agree but I've seen it in practice and unlike us rational folk there are nutters who filter based on the sex written down in a CV or the sex the name implies. Give people a chance, don't let them be excluded before they get through the door. Even the nutters will find themselves pleasently surprised when their preconcieved notion about a genders ability to do a job is shattered by a stunning interviewee. The law is meant to give the person a chance and eeks out a measure against bias.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
Paul Watson wrote:
there are nutters who filter based on the sex written down in a CV or the sex the name implies.
It won't stop the nutters, they'll just do it more sly, more secretly. They'll just won't hire you because you look to old, to young, to male, to female, to greasy. (Oh wait, "greasy" isn't on the list.) It gives you a tool against the double-nutters, though, that discriminate and brag about it. But assuming that it doesn't help a lot to really even out things, the potential hazard of lawsuits, the additional minefield in an already very tense situation aren't worth it IMO.
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
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MrBic wrote:
I'm not saying they're the best roll-model employers, but when you look at it: A business exists to make money, not to employ people. If employing someone will lose them money they will not employ them.
Here in Brazil the companies receive government incentives if one small percentage of employers have some kind of disability.
Engaged in the learning of English grammar. ;)
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.(John 3:16) :badger:Here in Canada there are many things like this: -Fresh out of University. Government will subisidize 80% of their salary -Research Fund. Hiring someone to do research in a field not yet explored in Canada. Government will subsidize a lot of the funding/salaries -Hiring Disabled people etc.
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I wouldn't care about an interviewee's sex, unless I was hiring prostitutes, but age can be important. If you are looking to hire someone for a five year project, and they are two years away from retirement, I would want to know. Likewise, if I was starting up a firm and needed experience onboard to gain investment, it would be an important factor. Don't hate the player. Peterchen has also listed some good reasons why. None of the restrictions prevent bias. Now it is simply the case that if an interviewer cannot determine the answer to an illegal question on their own then they will just not consider the candidate at all. It is just not worth the risk of getting it wrong. These laws are all made in good faith by people with no idea of the real world. It is PC gone insane. For example, some big UK recruitment companies are 'highly recommending' CV authors not to specify the year they left school, obtained a degree, or dates for anything prior to their most recent job, because that would accidentally expose the hiring managers to information about canditate ages, and open employers up to future lawsuits for discrimination. Now tell me that is to prevent bias and not utter madness. I challege anyone to. How long until you cannot ask a candiate their work experience, because it could be used to determine their relative ages? Or, even worse, it could be used to discriminate against the less-skilled candidates! My god, that could be straight out of a New Labour manifesto! Am I joking? I thought they were joking when they told us not to put our ages on our CVs. Personally, my age is a big asset to me when seeking work because coupled with my work experience it shows my strong commitment to my career and my work ethic (sadly both rarities today), and it allows me to filter out the employers I want to avoid without wasting the time to walk out of an interview. It works both ways, and now both sides are losing out.
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milkDavid Wulff wrote:
I wouldn't care about an interviewee's sex, unless I was hiring prostitutes
I believe the term is working-girls. You sir are a true humanitarian for employing these women.
"There are II kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who understand Roman numerals." - Bassam Abdul-Baki Web - Blog - RSS - Math - LinkedIn - BM
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Yea, I've seen that too. My boss and I actually google people he interviews to see where they pop up in the newspapers as far as weddings & children go so we don't need to ask them... I wonder if that's illegal too :D
MrBic wrote:
to see where they pop up in the newspapers as far as weddings & children go so we don't need to ask them... I wonder if that's illegal too
If you are caught, yes. why should it matter? I have heard the stability bit before, but it rarely is true. They either are, or are not a stable investment, they either want to work for you or not, questions related to desire to stay, or desire to work for the company are better alternatives. I am divorced, no kids. If you were looking at me as an interviewee, does that mean I am a better or worse employee? Google shows ancient horrible raytrace images, bad poetry (a teeny good poetry), some workshop fliers where I spoke (but no trace of the actual presentations hehehehehe).
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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MrBic wrote:
we then started talking about what you "cannot" ask during an interview. Which include: ... -Persons Sex
You know it's scary when you'd have to ask a person what sex they are...
Sometimes, it's a legitimate question.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
You also cannot ask.... (at least in the US) marital status if they have kids sexual preference if they plan to have kids soon (esp for a woman) I had to take a small class from a corporate lawyer before we started interviewing people at Texas Instruments. The interviewee can bring any of those things up but you had to steer clear from it if they did.
Steve Maier
Steve Maier wrote:
if they plan to have kids soon (esp for a woman)
That is absurd, and sadly it is the same here. Here's the extreme: I run a small business with a few fulltime employees. I hired them all based on experience, and (more important to me) future potential. If they want to start a family then they will have my full support, and if their position is still commercially viable when they want to return then they are welcome to come back again (their skill and potential is still going to be there). FWIW, I have offered very good contracts, better than most would find in the public sector, because I recognise that life needs to fit naturally with work for a happy employee. However, under UK law, I will have to pay them their full salary and benefits, and hire another person to do their job for anywhere from 6 months to 18 months. That is a temp at £30k + the original salary of £35k + the costs of training and about a month of downtime. In return the government gives me the equivalent of 5% of their salary back for my efforts. Taxed, naturally. I am required to find the additional £60k odd a year out of thin air. I wish my mortgage was that good a deal. I could just phone up and have the lender pay it off for two years while I had a new baby. Having children is a lifestyle choice. Employers should not be allowed to prevent it for any reason whatsoever but if the government wants the already struggling small businesses in this country to act as their social security blanket then they will need compensation. Anything less than 90% is an utter disgrace. If two of my employees left to start a family then I wouldn't even bother to look for a temp replacement. I would go straight to the bank, draw out all the money in cash to give to them then file for personal and business bankrupcy. At least that way cuts out the hassle of all the government forms for the same net result. Afterall, what is my life and the lives of my other employees worth compared to the social security of the few? I already pay for their social security -- before tax every £1 of their salary costs me £1.40 with 20p going into private pension funds for their retirement and at least 60p going to the treasury. 20p is in national insurance to subsidse future social benefits. After taxes the state is on a higher salary than my highest paid employee and they give small businesses fuck all in return. I'm sorry for the rant, but after yet more public
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David Wulff wrote:
I wouldn't care about an interviewee's sex, unless I was hiring prostitutes
I believe the term is working-girls. You sir are a true humanitarian for employing these women.
"There are II kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who understand Roman numerals." - Bassam Abdul-Baki Web - Blog - RSS - Math - LinkedIn - BM
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
I believe the term is working-girls.
I believe you mean "short-term contractors".
Sunrise Wallpaper Project | The StartPage Randomizer | A Random Web Page
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Steve Maier wrote:
if they plan to have kids soon (esp for a woman)
That is absurd, and sadly it is the same here. Here's the extreme: I run a small business with a few fulltime employees. I hired them all based on experience, and (more important to me) future potential. If they want to start a family then they will have my full support, and if their position is still commercially viable when they want to return then they are welcome to come back again (their skill and potential is still going to be there). FWIW, I have offered very good contracts, better than most would find in the public sector, because I recognise that life needs to fit naturally with work for a happy employee. However, under UK law, I will have to pay them their full salary and benefits, and hire another person to do their job for anywhere from 6 months to 18 months. That is a temp at £30k + the original salary of £35k + the costs of training and about a month of downtime. In return the government gives me the equivalent of 5% of their salary back for my efforts. Taxed, naturally. I am required to find the additional £60k odd a year out of thin air. I wish my mortgage was that good a deal. I could just phone up and have the lender pay it off for two years while I had a new baby. Having children is a lifestyle choice. Employers should not be allowed to prevent it for any reason whatsoever but if the government wants the already struggling small businesses in this country to act as their social security blanket then they will need compensation. Anything less than 90% is an utter disgrace. If two of my employees left to start a family then I wouldn't even bother to look for a temp replacement. I would go straight to the bank, draw out all the money in cash to give to them then file for personal and business bankrupcy. At least that way cuts out the hassle of all the government forms for the same net result. Afterall, what is my life and the lives of my other employees worth compared to the social security of the few? I already pay for their social security -- before tax every £1 of their salary costs me £1.40 with 20p going into private pension funds for their retirement and at least 60p going to the treasury. 20p is in national insurance to subsidse future social benefits. After taxes the state is on a higher salary than my highest paid employee and they give small businesses fuck all in return. I'm sorry for the rant, but after yet more public
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I wouldn't care about an interviewee's sex, unless I was hiring prostitutes, but age can be important. If you are looking to hire someone for a five year project, and they are two years away from retirement, I would want to know. Likewise, if I was starting up a firm and needed experience onboard to gain investment, it would be an important factor. Don't hate the player. Peterchen has also listed some good reasons why. None of the restrictions prevent bias. Now it is simply the case that if an interviewer cannot determine the answer to an illegal question on their own then they will just not consider the candidate at all. It is just not worth the risk of getting it wrong. These laws are all made in good faith by people with no idea of the real world. It is PC gone insane. For example, some big UK recruitment companies are 'highly recommending' CV authors not to specify the year they left school, obtained a degree, or dates for anything prior to their most recent job, because that would accidentally expose the hiring managers to information about canditate ages, and open employers up to future lawsuits for discrimination. Now tell me that is to prevent bias and not utter madness. I challege anyone to. How long until you cannot ask a candiate their work experience, because it could be used to determine their relative ages? Or, even worse, it could be used to discriminate against the less-skilled candidates! My god, that could be straight out of a New Labour manifesto! Am I joking? I thought they were joking when they told us not to put our ages on our CVs. Personally, my age is a big asset to me when seeking work because coupled with my work experience it shows my strong commitment to my career and my work ethic (sadly both rarities today), and it allows me to filter out the employers I want to avoid without wasting the time to walk out of an interview. It works both ways, and now both sides are losing out.
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milkDavid Wulff wrote:
but age can be important. If you are looking to hire someone for a five year project, and they are two years away from retirement, I would want to know. Likewise, if I was starting up a firm and needed experience onboard to gain investment, it would be an important factor. Don't hate the player. Peterchen has also listed some good reasons why.
Peterchen didn't have any reasons why. Nor did you. If the person says he is going to stay the 5 years, you don't need to know otherwise. A young person can leave in the middle of the project the same as an older person. A young person can die. Heck, I almost died in 2001! Right in the MIDDLE of a project. That can happen to any employer. You aren't protecting yourself by asking the wrong questions for the right reasons, you are fooling yourself into thinking they are the right questions. Regardless of the PC laws, I have never heard a justification for asking those questions, and I still have not. IF they can do the work, they can do the work. IF they cannot, they cannot. There are many factors that can go into doing the work AND lasting the contract. The interview process should be focused on doing the work and lasting the contract. If the job requires a Q-Clearance obviously that will restrict some applicants. If it requires lifting 100lbs, that too will restrict the applicants. But other questions outside of accomplishing the work and staying the distance are irrelevant. But again, I would simply avoid the company who asked rather than sue. I don't do that, only once have I had to come close to that, and it wasn't an employer even though my last one was a real prize. :rolleyes: Still, if you aren't intending bias, you don't need to ask. I still haven't heard a justification that could not be legally asked in a much more company positive way.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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That isn't hiring based on age. That is hiring based on diversity, which the law allows. So if an old guy comes in and you want fresh new ideas you find out if he has any and if he doesn't then you don't hire him. Not because he is old.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
I'm sorry Paul, the lawyers disagree with you. It's called positive age discrimination. If you don't meet the quotas, you'd better have damned good sworn evidence as to why not. How many gay, black and ex-convict friends do you have? If it is not more than 50% then you'd better have a damned good lawyer...
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk -
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
If you office building does not have a separate ladies restroom, and law requires that there be a separate one if you have women employees, you may want to hire men only (and vice-versa).
Surely the law requires there are separate toilets for men and women (plus extra, accesible toilets for the disabled) irrespective of whether there are men and women working in an office? What kind of office building only has one sex in it? I can only think of army barracks. Or is this a legacy situation in India from when women weren't allowed to work? (Did that happen in India?) And this post doesn't cover unisex toilet facilities as some countries may allow.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
Paul Watson wrote:
I can only think of army barracks.
after hearing of their offices, you would honestly prefer an army barracks!
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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peterchen wrote:
Hiring Gender B would allow the new employee to demand separate restrooms, which requires major changes to the plumbing, or for which you would need to move to a new office.
I am flabbergasted you and Nish seem to live in countries that don't already demand separate facilities irrespective of employee makeup. Here in Ireland a building has to have facilities for both genders and for the disabled. Same back home in South Africa. Do these companies that only have male toilets only have male clients that visit? What happens when a female client visits?
peterchen wrote:
Your area of business benefits from long-term / lifelong employment, but the place already looks like a geriatric ward. To give your company a future, you decide to hire young people.
Weak argument.
peterchen wrote:
You run a bar catering to 25-35 year old male singles.
You'll find this sorts itself out without recourse to filtering CVs.
peterchen wrote:
You are hiring pilots.
Eh? Which gender is incapable of piloting a vehicle?
peterchen wrote:
Your best clients are men-hating lesbians.
:rolleyes: Come on peterchen.
peterchen wrote:
Your company, parent company or your contry has regulations that give older people better benefits, or limits your ability to fire them.
So hire young people and fire them before they get too old? :laugh:
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
The examples were just ideas that came to my mind, trying to illustrate my two points: first, there are so many factors that influence a hiring desicion, that are much more weakly defined than sex or age. Second, there might be particular business reasons.
Paul Watson wrote:
I am flabbergasted you and Nish seem to live in countries that don't already demand separate facilities irrespective of employee makeup.
I read your reply to Nish :) A unisex toilet wouldn't be a problem in Germany. But many startups (in the old sense) have their office in cramped places - so together with a law for a separate toilet, there might be trouble
You'll find this sorts itself out without recourse to filtering CVs.
exactly. So what does the law help here?
Eh? Which gender is incapable of piloting a vehicle?
:rolleyes: Airline. True, they have to pass regular tests, so age doesn't need to be a filter. But it's a weak, ok. man-hating lesbians: Just exaggerating a little bit. But if your best clients that make your company float are homophobe, or think women belong in the home, or are generally nuts, the employer will find a way to get someone else. Regulations & Geriatric ward: I don't think that's particulary weak. Germany has strict regulations making it hard to "get rid off" older employees. With the effect that, when times are tight, the young people have to go, and the old ones remain. (And the side effect that, at a certain age, you almost never get hired at all). If the employer thinks a balanced age mix would be suitable, should he not? A woman, while technically slightly less qualified than a man, might improve the social climate in the office immensely, should this be banned?
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|FoldWithUs! | sighist -
I'm sorry Paul, the lawyers disagree with you. It's called positive age discrimination. If you don't meet the quotas, you'd better have damned good sworn evidence as to why not. How many gay, black and ex-convict friends do you have? If it is not more than 50% then you'd better have a damned good lawyer...
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milkDavid Wulff wrote:
How many gay, black and ex-convict friends do you have? If it is not more than 50% then you'd better have a damned good lawyer...
Man! Soon they will obligate you to contract java programmers!
Engaged in the learning of English grammar. ;)
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.(John 3:16) :badger: -
David Wulff wrote:
but age can be important. If you are looking to hire someone for a five year project, and they are two years away from retirement, I would want to know. Likewise, if I was starting up a firm and needed experience onboard to gain investment, it would be an important factor. Don't hate the player. Peterchen has also listed some good reasons why.
Peterchen didn't have any reasons why. Nor did you. If the person says he is going to stay the 5 years, you don't need to know otherwise. A young person can leave in the middle of the project the same as an older person. A young person can die. Heck, I almost died in 2001! Right in the MIDDLE of a project. That can happen to any employer. You aren't protecting yourself by asking the wrong questions for the right reasons, you are fooling yourself into thinking they are the right questions. Regardless of the PC laws, I have never heard a justification for asking those questions, and I still have not. IF they can do the work, they can do the work. IF they cannot, they cannot. There are many factors that can go into doing the work AND lasting the contract. The interview process should be focused on doing the work and lasting the contract. If the job requires a Q-Clearance obviously that will restrict some applicants. If it requires lifting 100lbs, that too will restrict the applicants. But other questions outside of accomplishing the work and staying the distance are irrelevant. But again, I would simply avoid the company who asked rather than sue. I don't do that, only once have I had to come close to that, and it wasn't an employer even though my last one was a real prize. :rolleyes: Still, if you aren't intending bias, you don't need to ask. I still haven't heard a justification that could not be legally asked in a much more company positive way.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
A young person can leave in the middle of the project the same as an older person
We are quite clearly talking about different things here: I am not talking about voluntary leaving, any employee should have that right with sufficient notice. However I am referring to mandatory retirement ages, either through legislation or insurance restrictions. Those completely remove the element of choice from the equation.
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
Regardless of the PC laws, I have never heard a justification for asking those questions, and I still have not
Questions such as: "When did you study for your PhD in Computing?" or "Why do you have a ten year gap in your work experience?" Both are very important questions IMO, expecially in our fast changing industry.
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk -
David Wulff wrote:
How many gay, black and ex-convict friends do you have? If it is not more than 50% then you'd better have a damned good lawyer...
Man! Soon they will obligate you to contract java programmers!
Engaged in the learning of English grammar. ;)
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.(John 3:16) :badger:Nah, luckily the public sector absorb most of those. It's the same with PHP and Ruby. * ducks *
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk -
So my boss is doing an interview for a few coop students (coop is like internship in the USA). I gave him a question and said he should ask it, this question was: Give the intervewee a Tank, Lava Lamp, Cake and a Balloon. And then ask the person what they'd do with it. To test it out my boss asked us developers what we'd do, and instantly one person said: "Run the Customers over with the tank and then go back to work and celebrate by eating cake, and decorate your desk with baloons and lavalamps". Another said "Shoot the customers with the tank, use the cake as a diversion so management doesn't find out, scare the secrataryoffice administrator with the baloon and then use the lava lamp to make your desk look cool." We had a good laugh... we then started talking about what you "cannot" ask during an interview. Which include: -Person Age -Persons Religion -Persons Political Standing -Persons Sex The 1st and the last bugged me as I believe an employer should have total control over who they hire, and why they hire them. But asking someone their "Sex"... in Canada, if you ask someone their "Sex" and you do NOT hire them, you can be: Sued, taken to a tribunal, arrested and many other dumb things. Stupid laws. No wonder so many people are confused, no one ever asked them what sex they were :laugh:
Age: Look at graduation dates on education, total years of experience from CV Religion: Mention that you like to see hobbies and interests on CV Political Standing: Place political satire jokes around the office before interview and await comments Sex: Duh, have a look. Marital Status: Ring? No Ring Kids: Mention that you are considering providing daycare as a perk and ask if that would be a perk that would interest the candidate. All illegal questions have legal counterpart questions to reveal the answer.
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David Wulff wrote:
I wouldn't care about an interviewee's sex, unless I was hiring prostitutes
I believe the term is working-girls. You sir are a true humanitarian for employing these women.
"There are II kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who understand Roman numerals." - Bassam Abdul-Baki Web - Blog - RSS - Math - LinkedIn - BM
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
I believe the term is working-girls.
"Sexoservidoras", or "Sexservers", here. If you call 'em otherwise, you can be fined by the government. :~
A polar bear is a bear whose coordinates has been changed in terms of sine and cosine. Personal Site
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peterchen wrote:
Purely by chance, you are currently employing only Gender A. Hiring Gender B would allow the new employee to demand separate restrooms, which requires major changes to the plumbing, or for which you would need to move to a new office.
I work in a hanger built in the early 50's. We have men and women's restrooms.
peterchen wrote:
Your area of business benefits from long-term / lifelong employment, but the place already looks like a geriatric ward. To give your company a future, you decide to hire young people.
hire co-op through the university, although age may be higher than 20's the vast majority of applicants will be in their 20's and 30's no need to ask.
peterchen wrote:
You run a bar catering to 25-35 year old male singles. Your best clients are men-hating lesbians.
hire on looks, not age, if you can't tell he/she is over 40, it's not worth asking, so don't ask it. I wasn't hired for wearing a tie to an interview, all the interviewers were in t-shirts and hawaiian shirts. If they don't fit in, they don't fit in, but if you have to ask, then no one else will know either.
peterchen wrote:
You are hiring pilots.
If they pass the physical, again, you don't care, don't ask. I am not sure if you are saying pilots can't be women, young or old here, but none are the case. Most commercial pilots are older because of the required flight hours before hire. It takes a long time to get those hours.
peterchen wrote:
Your company, parent company or your contry has regulations that give older people better benefits, or limits your ability to fire them.
never heard of such a situation. But again, if you have to ask, that's an HR issue. The primary interview should be on "doing the work." HR and security can still "not hire" an employee even if they pass the interview for a variety of reasons, just as the employee does not have to accept the job, the company doesn't have to accept the applicant. Age is on the application, but the application is not usually part of the interview process here unless it is a transfer within the company. HR has to know, but I do not.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and t
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
I work in a hanger built in the early 50's. We have men and women's restrooms.
Probably it was meant for blacks and whites back then :rolleyes: (ok, a bit tasteless nowadays...) P.S. see my reply to Paul above
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|FoldWithUs! | sighist -
I guess the saying is true: You cannot have your cake and eat it. What upsets me is how it is all so unnecessary. There are funds to pay for all of this being wasted every day by the government on dead-end projects and useless departments country-wide. Give the national savings budget to a private company and let them invest it for profits -- we'll all get a better return on it, and everyone benefits.
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk -
Here in Canada there are many things like this: -Fresh out of University. Government will subisidize 80% of their salary -Research Fund. Hiring someone to do research in a field not yet explored in Canada. Government will subsidize a lot of the funding/salaries -Hiring Disabled people etc.
