A survey about the programmer! Need your help! Thanks.
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Christian Graus wrote:
Which bit didn't you like ? What's made you think that someone can be too old to write code ? Or, what makes you think that everyone should feel the need to be a manager by a certain age ?
In our country, some recruitment information limit the age. I known that's not right.
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天气常如二三月，花技不断四时春。Well, that's their problem. I mean, if the recruitment agency won't talk to you, go to the employers direct. That's what I've always done.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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Chris Austin wrote:
guiqul163 wrote: 1. Do you think people cann't do this job(Programmer) after 30 or 35 years old? No.
I notice his first question is a double negative. It would be clearer if he asked 'can people do this after 30 or 35'. I'm 38 BTW, and I'm sure I'm far from the oldest here. Damn, I hope so....
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Christian Graus wrote:
I notice his first question is a double negative.
I caught that also. In the past I spent a lot of time in S.E. Asia and the Pacific Rim and got pretty used to the double negative use. When I run into it now and again, I tent to read it as native english speakers had written it.
Christian Graus wrote:
I'm 38 BTW, and I'm sure I'm far from the oldest here. Damn, I hope so....
I'm pushing 35 myself so I must be on the bubble of usefulness :) Time to go turn myself into solyent green.
My Blog A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
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thanks very much.
========================================= Make friends with you all. My Blog, welcome
天气常如二三月，花技不断四时春。You are welcome.
My Blog A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
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Christian Graus wrote:
Which bit didn't you like ? What's made you think that someone can be too old to write code ? Or, what makes you think that everyone should feel the need to be a manager by a certain age ?
In our country, some recruitment information limit the age. I known that's not right.
========================================= Make friends with you all. My Blog, welcome
天气常如二三月，花技不断四时春。guiqul163 wrote:
In our country, some recruitment information limit the age.
Wow, thats pretty depressing to me. I couldn't imagine being told that I can't code anymore now that I am really hitting my prime.
My Blog A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
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Well, that's their problem. I mean, if the recruitment agency won't talk to you, go to the employers direct. That's what I've always done.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Good idea! I'll have a try if I need. Lunchtime come, see you later.
========================================= Make friends with you all. My Blog, welcome
天气常如二三月，花技不断四时春。 -
1. Do you think people cann't do this job(Programmer) after 30 or 35 years old? 2. Have you found this condition that the company limit the age in its recruitment information? 3. Do you think that's lose face if someone is still a programmer(just a programmer, not a manager) after 35 years old?
========================================= Make friends with you all. My Blog, welcome
天气常如二三月，花技不断四时春。guiqul163 wrote:
1. Do you think people cann't do this job(Programmer) after 30 or 35 years old?
Gee I dunno... I wonder how old Charles Petzold is. Or Tim Berners-Lee. Or Marvin Minsky. Or... :)
guiqul163 wrote:
2. Have you found this condition that the company limit the age in its recruitment information?
I've never encountered this, but I'm sure it happens.
guiqul163 wrote:
Do you think that's lose face if someone is still a programmer(just a programmer, not a manager) after 35 years old?
See (1). /ravi
This is your brain on Celcius Home | Music | Articles | Freeware | Trips ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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guiqul163 wrote:
In our country, some recruitment information limit the age.
Wow, thats pretty depressing to me. I couldn't imagine being told that I can't code anymore now that I am really hitting my prime.
My Blog A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
Am I the only one who has as a starting point the opinion that recruitment agencies are run by morons ? I've dealt with them, and it's never been positive. The only job I've ever applied for and not got, in software, was through an agency ( although, the problem was that they wanted someone in Sydney, not Hobart, but that's my point, they just threw me at the job, even though I was in a completely different part of the country to what was needed, and was not offering to move ).
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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Christian Graus wrote:
I notice his first question is a double negative.
I caught that also. In the past I spent a lot of time in S.E. Asia and the Pacific Rim and got pretty used to the double negative use. When I run into it now and again, I tent to read it as native english speakers had written it.
Christian Graus wrote:
I'm 38 BTW, and I'm sure I'm far from the oldest here. Damn, I hope so....
I'm pushing 35 myself so I must be on the bubble of usefulness :) Time to go turn myself into solyent green.
My Blog A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
Chris Austin wrote:
Time to go turn myself into solyent green.
LOL You know, I get the reference, but I've actually not read the book/seen the film at all.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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Am I the only one who has as a starting point the opinion that recruitment agencies are run by morons ? I've dealt with them, and it's never been positive. The only job I've ever applied for and not got, in software, was through an agency ( although, the problem was that they wanted someone in Sydney, not Hobart, but that's my point, they just threw me at the job, even though I was in a completely different part of the country to what was needed, and was not offering to move ).
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Nope, I share the same feeling. When I was first getting into this field I tried using one. So many times it seems I was just a warm body to fill an interview spot. Once, they sent me to interview for what they had told me was a C++ position; I get there and I am asked to write Cobol code in the interview.
My Blog A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
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Nope, I share the same feeling. When I was first getting into this field I tried using one. So many times it seems I was just a warm body to fill an interview spot. Once, they sent me to interview for what they had told me was a C++ position; I get there and I am asked to write Cobol code in the interview.
My Blog A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
ROTFL - that's way worse than what happened to me...
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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1. Do you think people cann't do this job(Programmer) after 30 or 35 years old? 2. Have you found this condition that the company limit the age in its recruitment information? 3. Do you think that's lose face if someone is still a programmer(just a programmer, not a manager) after 35 years old?
========================================= Make friends with you all. My Blog, welcome
天气常如二三月，花技不断四时春。1. Of course they can...its all about drive and creativity 2. No. 3. I am 30. I used to be a programmer, worked my way "up" to manager, quit and went back to being a programmer. I think there is a certain mentality and ownership / maturity that makes it OK to be the one doing the work and not the one "managing" the work. If you are a good carpenter and enjoy your work do you want to be "promoted" to manager and just oversee other's work, not getting to do it yourself?
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ROTFL - that's way worse than what happened to me...
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
It's hard to describe....I was so angry and embarrassed at the same time.
My Blog A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
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1. Of course they can...its all about drive and creativity 2. No. 3. I am 30. I used to be a programmer, worked my way "up" to manager, quit and went back to being a programmer. I think there is a certain mentality and ownership / maturity that makes it OK to be the one doing the work and not the one "managing" the work. If you are a good carpenter and enjoy your work do you want to be "promoted" to manager and just oversee other's work, not getting to do it yourself?
Thanks very much
========================================= Make friends with you all. My Blog, welcome
天气常如二三月，花技不断四时春。 -
1. Do you think people cann't do this job(Programmer) after 30 or 35 years old? 2. Have you found this condition that the company limit the age in its recruitment information? 3. Do you think that's lose face if someone is still a programmer(just a programmer, not a manager) after 35 years old?
========================================= Make friends with you all. My Blog, welcome
天气常如二三月，花技不断四时春。I think you need to define what you mean. I think everyone is misunderstanding you a little bit. There's nothing wrong with *programming* as your primary role at 35+. But if your job title is *programmer* at 35, yes I think something is wrong. By that age you should be project lead, senior programmer, architect etc. But if you're still taking specs and just churning out code pretty much exactly like you were when you were 25, IMO you're not advancing yourself. But yeah if that truly is your passion and all you care to do, and you're happy with your pay, why not - nothing strictly *wrong* with it I guess. So my answers to your questions: 1) If you want to remain ordinary programmer through your career, and don't mind reporting to someone who "overtakes" you - e.g someone a few years your junior - then go ahead and do it. 2) i think there is sometimes a perception that younger programmers are more up to date with newer technology than dinosaurs who started their career 20 years ago :) 3) if you're still a regular programmer at 35 years old, and have not attained a more senior role, yes I think you do need to advance yourself in some way - urgently ;) You asked for an opinion, you got one :)
"For fifty bucks I'd put my face in their soup and blow." - George Costanza
CP article: SmartPager - a Flickr-style pager control with go-to-page popup layer.
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I think you need to define what you mean. I think everyone is misunderstanding you a little bit. There's nothing wrong with *programming* as your primary role at 35+. But if your job title is *programmer* at 35, yes I think something is wrong. By that age you should be project lead, senior programmer, architect etc. But if you're still taking specs and just churning out code pretty much exactly like you were when you were 25, IMO you're not advancing yourself. But yeah if that truly is your passion and all you care to do, and you're happy with your pay, why not - nothing strictly *wrong* with it I guess. So my answers to your questions: 1) If you want to remain ordinary programmer through your career, and don't mind reporting to someone who "overtakes" you - e.g someone a few years your junior - then go ahead and do it. 2) i think there is sometimes a perception that younger programmers are more up to date with newer technology than dinosaurs who started their career 20 years ago :) 3) if you're still a regular programmer at 35 years old, and have not attained a more senior role, yes I think you do need to advance yourself in some way - urgently ;) You asked for an opinion, you got one :)
"For fifty bucks I'd put my face in their soup and blow." - George Costanza
CP article: SmartPager - a Flickr-style pager control with go-to-page popup layer.
:((:((:((:((:(( It's to difficult to express my meaning explicitly. My English is to poor.
========================================= Make friends with you all. My Blog, welcome
天气常如二三月，花技不断四时春。 -
1. Do you think people cann't do this job(Programmer) after 30 or 35 years old? 2. Have you found this condition that the company limit the age in its recruitment information? 3. Do you think that's lose face if someone is still a programmer(just a programmer, not a manager) after 35 years old?
========================================= Make friends with you all. My Blog, welcome
天气常如二三月，花技不断四时春。guiqul163 wrote:
2. Have you found this condition that the company limit the age in its recruitment information?
Not in the US, that would be illegal.
--Mike-- Visual C++ MVP :cool: LINKS~! Ericahist | PimpFish | CP SearchBar v3.0 | C++ Forum FAQ Ford, what's this fish doing in my ear?
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1. Do you think people cann't do this job(Programmer) after 30 or 35 years old? 2. Have you found this condition that the company limit the age in its recruitment information? 3. Do you think that's lose face if someone is still a programmer(just a programmer, not a manager) after 35 years old?
========================================= Make friends with you all. My Blog, welcome
天气常如二三月，花技不断四时春。1. I personally think that it's a good thing to have people that age or older in the company. It means that the company has got experience doing various projects. 2. The company I work for even recruits people with the age of 30+. They need them because otherwise the younger employees don't get coached and they loose customers because of poor results. 3. Nah, I think it's perfectly fine to be programmer at that age. But I sure hope he's senior by then.
WM. What about weapons of mass-construction? "What? Its an Apple MacBook Pro. They are sexy!" - Paul Watson
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1. I personally think that it's a good thing to have people that age or older in the company. It means that the company has got experience doing various projects. 2. The company I work for even recruits people with the age of 30+. They need them because otherwise the younger employees don't get coached and they loose customers because of poor results. 3. Nah, I think it's perfectly fine to be programmer at that age. But I sure hope he's senior by then.
WM. What about weapons of mass-construction? "What? Its an Apple MacBook Pro. They are sexy!" - Paul Watson
Thanks very much.
========================================= Make friends with you all. My Blog, welcome
天气常如二三月，花技不断四时春。 -
1. I personally think that it's a good thing to have people that age or older in the company. It means that the company has got experience doing various projects. 2. The company I work for even recruits people with the age of 30+. They need them because otherwise the younger employees don't get coached and they loose customers because of poor results. 3. Nah, I think it's perfectly fine to be programmer at that age. But I sure hope he's senior by then.
WM. What about weapons of mass-construction? "What? Its an Apple MacBook Pro. They are sexy!" - Paul Watson
WillemM wrote:
But I sure hope he's senior by then
Exactly.. and a senior programmer is not "just a programmer" as he puts it. You should grow & move up in some way or another.
"For fifty bucks I'd put my face in their soup and blow." - George Costanza
CP article: SmartPager - a Flickr-style pager control with go-to-page popup layer.
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1. Do you think people cann't do this job(Programmer) after 30 or 35 years old? 2. Have you found this condition that the company limit the age in its recruitment information? 3. Do you think that's lose face if someone is still a programmer(just a programmer, not a manager) after 35 years old?
========================================= Make friends with you all. My Blog, welcome
天气常如二三月，花技不断四时春。I think there is a case of ageism where certain companies prefer younger people. This seems to be primarily down to cost rather than anything else, because an older person has more experience and would generally want more pay than some 20 year old. I don't think that you lose face if you're a programmer after 35 years old. Why should you? If you want to stay coding, then you should be paid comensurate with your experience rather than job title. I'm over 35, and while my job title is actually Managing Director, I still prefer to think of myself as a developer. I spend about 20% of my working life managing my company, and the rest of the time I spend coding. I don't look down on the other developers - I started the company which is why I get the job title, but I'm just another developer in the company.
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.