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That's the gist of it all, isn't it? I find no other rational explanation for religiousness. It's got to be sheer laziness. :~
-- Torn from tomorrow's headlines
Joergen Sigvardsson wrote:
That's the gist of it all, isn't it? I find no other rational explanation for religiousness. It's got to be sheer laziness.
Probably more stupidity than laziness. "God did it" is probably the only explanation people like Gary Kirkham and Christian Graus are capable of understanding.
There is no heaven, there is no hell, except here on Earth. - Anton LaVey
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Joergen Sigvardsson wrote:
That's the gist of it all, isn't it? I find no other rational explanation for religiousness. It's got to be sheer laziness.
Probably more stupidity than laziness. "God did it" is probably the only explanation people like Gary Kirkham and Christian Graus are capable of understanding.
There is no heaven, there is no hell, except here on Earth. - Anton LaVey
Have you noticed that I am ignoring your trolling on these boards ? If only others could do the same.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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Nah.. we win because we don't have a message. :)
-- If not entertaining, write your congressman
*grin* well, I guess that makes your position easy to state.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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I think it's because they breed like rabbits. :) I have never seen a muslim family which wasn't really big!
-- Made From Meat By-Products
I guess it's also true that the survey in question wouldn't be able to tell conversion rates and rates of growth through breeding or through immigration.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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*grin* well, I guess that makes your position easy to state.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Actually, it's not always that easy. As an atheist, you're constantly under attack by theists. I'm not saying all theists are vicious, but some certainly are. That is the reason why there are atheists who are vocal (including myself). We refuse to be labeled as damned, evil, morally deficient, or whatever the popular religious concept is. The funny thing is that I cannot say "My position is X" - I have to say "My position is not A, O, Y, nor Z", due to the very nature of atheism. I make no claims, yet according to some, I do by not making claims.
-- Deciphered from crop circles
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Joergen Sigvardsson wrote:
That's the gist of it all, isn't it? I find no other rational explanation for religiousness. It's got to be sheer laziness.
Studies show a strong tendency for religious belief built into the human mind (a side effect of our ability to conceptualize, actually). A small percentage of the population don't possess that tendency; I think it is fairly common for those in that small percentage to be geeks.
Patrick Sears wrote:
Studies show a strong tendency for religious belief built into the human mind (a side effect of our ability to conceptualize, actually).
Surely, religion was probably a tool to survive/procreate some time ago in our history. Evolution is a clear path through a sea of randomness. Somewhere in that sea, religion was a good paddle. I fail to see its relevance now though.
Patrick Sears wrote:
A small percentage of the population don't possess that tendency; I think it is fairly common for those in that small percentage to be geeks.
I think geekness is a function of the logical part of the brain. I don't think religiousness has anything to do with geekness (I know there are religious geeks).
-- Presented in doublevision (where drunk)
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Have you noticed that I am ignoring your trolling on these boards ? If only others could do the same.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Quote: Have you noticed that I am ignoring your trolling on these boards ? If only others could do the same. :laugh: Obviously not. If you were ignoring me then how did you manage to post a reply to my post?
There is no heaven, there is no hell, except here on Earth. - Anton LaVey
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Actually, it's not always that easy. As an atheist, you're constantly under attack by theists. I'm not saying all theists are vicious, but some certainly are. That is the reason why there are atheists who are vocal (including myself). We refuse to be labeled as damned, evil, morally deficient, or whatever the popular religious concept is. The funny thing is that I cannot say "My position is X" - I have to say "My position is not A, O, Y, nor Z", due to the very nature of atheism. I make no claims, yet according to some, I do by not making claims.
-- Deciphered from crop circles
Yeah, one thing that really troubles me is the idea that !Christian == Evil. Or, even, that showingUpToAChurch == Good == Chrisitan. And, I think the people who are vicious, see in you an embodiment of their own doubts. Why else would it worry them ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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Quote: Have you noticed that I am ignoring your trolling on these boards ? If only others could do the same. :laugh: Obviously not. If you were ignoring me then how did you manage to post a reply to my post?
There is no heaven, there is no hell, except here on Earth. - Anton LaVey
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Christian is strange about religion, lol, He my be a Visual Basic MVP but he has no sense in the real world.
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Have you noticed that I am ignoring your trolling on these boards ? If only others could do the same.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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*SLAP* ;)
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It appears that everybody is under the impression that I approve of the documentation. You probably also blame Ken Burns for supporting slavery.
--Raymond Chen on MSDN
Thanks, I needed that.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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Hi all, I really appreciate participating in your forum and will start my posting with new information. After the tragic attack on 9/11 and the war on terrorism, Islam remain the fastest-growing religion in America and in the world although religion is no longer dominates everyday life in Western society. http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9704/14/egypt.islam/ http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Oct2001/n10042001\_200110043.html "Islam is the fastest-growing religion in America, a guide and pillar of stability for many of our people..." Hillary Rodman Clinton, Los Angeles Times,May 31,1996,p.3 http://www.themodernreligion.com/convert/am.htm
From what I've read from different people who have converted to Islam, there are a few main reasons for most conversions: 1. Muslims and Christians agree that God is self-existent. This means that He does not derive his existence from anyone. Also they believe in Jesus, love him, and honor him. In fact, no Muslim can be a Muslim unless he or she believes in Jesus, on whom be peace. The Quran teach that Jesus is prophet or messenger from Allah and not a God so Quran denies the divinity of Jesus. The Qur'an says that Jesus was born of a virgin, that he spoke while he was still only a baby, that he healed the blind and the leper by God's leave, and that he raised the dead by God's leave. 2. Islam is a religious lifestyle, not just a quick Sunday morning church visit and a label. Although some Christians do pray before each meal and spend much time with their Bible, etc.many don't in the USA. Islam is something that can't be shunted into a few spare hours. You pray five times a day. Your dress code is affected; even your food choices are explained in the Qur'an. Many converts like it because they feel actively involved and as if they are truly religious. Some people also studied Buddhism, flirted with Roman Catholicism or spent time with Quakers, but ultimately found them lacking. 3. For women, it is a big and welcome change from the "in your face" sexuality of western culture. Women are not required by the Qur'an to veil. They are required to dress modestly and it is *recommended* that they cover their hair. However, most do veil and some go farther with niquab (the face screen) or other traditional clothes. Women dressed like this consider themselves marked as religious women, not easy dates. They don't get hit on. No one gawks at their bodies. They are clearly off limits sexually and many that I personally know say it is liberating not to have to conform to western standards of sexy dress, makeup and spending so much time and money on appearance. You buy a five-dollar hijab, put your hair in a ponytail and cover, wear long skirt and a tunic shirt -you're set. 4. Islam is also growing because many people are not satisfied with Christianity. They feel it is too liberal, too fluid and changes for the culture. Islam on the other hand is more rigid and does not as a whole allow much for modern changes and the whims of society. Many like it because they feel other religions have loose standards. A person like me who is unfamiliar with Islamic teachings might be surprised to hear that Islam is not a “re
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From what I've read from different people who have converted to Islam, there are a few main reasons for most conversions: 1. Muslims and Christians agree that God is self-existent. This means that He does not derive his existence from anyone. Also they believe in Jesus, love him, and honor him. In fact, no Muslim can be a Muslim unless he or she believes in Jesus, on whom be peace. The Quran teach that Jesus is prophet or messenger from Allah and not a God so Quran denies the divinity of Jesus. The Qur'an says that Jesus was born of a virgin, that he spoke while he was still only a baby, that he healed the blind and the leper by God's leave, and that he raised the dead by God's leave. 2. Islam is a religious lifestyle, not just a quick Sunday morning church visit and a label. Although some Christians do pray before each meal and spend much time with their Bible, etc.many don't in the USA. Islam is something that can't be shunted into a few spare hours. You pray five times a day. Your dress code is affected; even your food choices are explained in the Qur'an. Many converts like it because they feel actively involved and as if they are truly religious. Some people also studied Buddhism, flirted with Roman Catholicism or spent time with Quakers, but ultimately found them lacking. 3. For women, it is a big and welcome change from the "in your face" sexuality of western culture. Women are not required by the Qur'an to veil. They are required to dress modestly and it is *recommended* that they cover their hair. However, most do veil and some go farther with niquab (the face screen) or other traditional clothes. Women dressed like this consider themselves marked as religious women, not easy dates. They don't get hit on. No one gawks at their bodies. They are clearly off limits sexually and many that I personally know say it is liberating not to have to conform to western standards of sexy dress, makeup and spending so much time and money on appearance. You buy a five-dollar hijab, put your hair in a ponytail and cover, wear long skirt and a tunic shirt -you're set. 4. Islam is also growing because many people are not satisfied with Christianity. They feel it is too liberal, too fluid and changes for the culture. Islam on the other hand is more rigid and does not as a whole allow much for modern changes and the whims of society. Many like it because they feel other religions have loose standards. A person like me who is unfamiliar with Islamic teachings might be surprised to hear that Islam is not a “re
dav25 wrote:
You pray five times a day. Your dress code is affected; even your food choices are explained in the Qur'an.
Funny thing is that when you live in a muslim country, you would see other things. Islam has many good points, so has christianity. As long as you don't go into extremes, it's all good for humanity I guess.
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From what I've read from different people who have converted to Islam, there are a few main reasons for most conversions: 1. Muslims and Christians agree that God is self-existent. This means that He does not derive his existence from anyone. Also they believe in Jesus, love him, and honor him. In fact, no Muslim can be a Muslim unless he or she believes in Jesus, on whom be peace. The Quran teach that Jesus is prophet or messenger from Allah and not a God so Quran denies the divinity of Jesus. The Qur'an says that Jesus was born of a virgin, that he spoke while he was still only a baby, that he healed the blind and the leper by God's leave, and that he raised the dead by God's leave. 2. Islam is a religious lifestyle, not just a quick Sunday morning church visit and a label. Although some Christians do pray before each meal and spend much time with their Bible, etc.many don't in the USA. Islam is something that can't be shunted into a few spare hours. You pray five times a day. Your dress code is affected; even your food choices are explained in the Qur'an. Many converts like it because they feel actively involved and as if they are truly religious. Some people also studied Buddhism, flirted with Roman Catholicism or spent time with Quakers, but ultimately found them lacking. 3. For women, it is a big and welcome change from the "in your face" sexuality of western culture. Women are not required by the Qur'an to veil. They are required to dress modestly and it is *recommended* that they cover their hair. However, most do veil and some go farther with niquab (the face screen) or other traditional clothes. Women dressed like this consider themselves marked as religious women, not easy dates. They don't get hit on. No one gawks at their bodies. They are clearly off limits sexually and many that I personally know say it is liberating not to have to conform to western standards of sexy dress, makeup and spending so much time and money on appearance. You buy a five-dollar hijab, put your hair in a ponytail and cover, wear long skirt and a tunic shirt -you're set. 4. Islam is also growing because many people are not satisfied with Christianity. They feel it is too liberal, too fluid and changes for the culture. Islam on the other hand is more rigid and does not as a whole allow much for modern changes and the whims of society. Many like it because they feel other religions have loose standards. A person like me who is unfamiliar with Islamic teachings might be surprised to hear that Islam is not a “re
1 - All Muslims who I have spoken to, reject Jesus almost entirely. That is to say, they reject the New Testament, almost entirely, and are left with a Jesus of whom no contempary written record exists. The Muslim position on Jesus is really quite fascinating. 2 - Yes, I can see how Islam would appeal to people who want their entire life to be dictated to them. This is another example of Islam's rejection of Christ. Islam is based more on Judaism than Christianity, more on the Law than on anything Christ said or did. 3 - Women are free to dress modestly ( in fact, to dress however they like ), in Western society. Women in the West enjoy a freedom that does not seem to exist under Islam, not by and large. Obviously, women who are Muslims, will hold to the points of view you espouse, or at least, claim to. That proves nothing. 4 - 'Islam is more rigid'. Yes, indeed. Like I said, strict laws appeal to those who want to be led.
dav25 wrote:
does not rely upon blind faith to make its case, but rather, encourages to use minds
You must be kidding. You just said it was rigid. Which is true ?
dav25 wrote:
For example, the Qur'an invites to ponder upon the wonders of creation, and challenges with intellectual arguments.
Yeah, that's copied straight out of the Christian Bible. So what ?
dav25 wrote:
Stats taken by many college groups say that women convert 4 times more often then men.
That's true anywhere, women tend to be more religious. It would be true of Catholics, Buddhists and Jehovah's Witnesses.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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LongHC wrote:
defiantly
At least he's not so stupid that he advocates boycotting Denmark over some cartoons, as you do in your 'about:islam' link. You and your religion are small minded bigots.
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Rob Graham wrote:
boycotting Denmark
That boycott made me laugh so hard. Muslim countries boycotting trade with Denmark. Denmark's most famous exports? Beer and bacon. Gee - bet they missed out on that hot market.
Mmm.... beer & bacon! Keep it coming!
-- My disbelief is not a belief.
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That's the gist of it all, isn't it? I find no other rational explanation for religiousness. It's got to be sheer laziness. :~
-- Torn from tomorrow's headlines
Nah... it takes quite a bit of work to be religious. Quite a bit of work. I'd say that those who state that since you can't prove it its pointless are taking the lazy approach. ;) Now, am I being facetious or sarcastic?
This statement was never false.
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Yeah, one thing that really troubles me is the idea that !Christian == Evil. Or, even, that showingUpToAChurch == Good == Chrisitan. And, I think the people who are vicious, see in you an embodiment of their own doubts. Why else would it worry them ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Christian Graus wrote:
And, I think the people who are vicious, see in you an embodiment of their own doubts. Why else would it worry them ?
I agree with you here 100%. I find myself defending atheists a bit because of that. Its a valid view point. And most of the attacks have nothing to do with logic. I enjoy the skepticism that gets me to reconfirm my own belief system. I embrace just about every dissenting position against religion because of the command: Seek the truth. But each time, my view is just reinforced. Albeit amended at times. Like with evolution, I've had to make room for that. It makes sense to me. And I can't disregard what my gut is telling me. The same that guides me religiously. And this is my biggest argument against the religious arguments. They are usually arguing for stale rigid old tired dusty moldy definitions, instead of allowing it to be vibrant and alive able to adapt to the times and changing knowledge. Absence of proof is not proof of absence. But I have some experience, whether its delusional and self-fulfilling, or whether is valid doesn't matter to me. I won't know til I die. So, for now, I enjoy it, and if its not true, then when I'm dead, I certainly won't be worrying about it.
This statement was never false.
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From what I've read from different people who have converted to Islam, there are a few main reasons for most conversions: 1. Muslims and Christians agree that God is self-existent. This means that He does not derive his existence from anyone. Also they believe in Jesus, love him, and honor him. In fact, no Muslim can be a Muslim unless he or she believes in Jesus, on whom be peace. The Quran teach that Jesus is prophet or messenger from Allah and not a God so Quran denies the divinity of Jesus. The Qur'an says that Jesus was born of a virgin, that he spoke while he was still only a baby, that he healed the blind and the leper by God's leave, and that he raised the dead by God's leave. 2. Islam is a religious lifestyle, not just a quick Sunday morning church visit and a label. Although some Christians do pray before each meal and spend much time with their Bible, etc.many don't in the USA. Islam is something that can't be shunted into a few spare hours. You pray five times a day. Your dress code is affected; even your food choices are explained in the Qur'an. Many converts like it because they feel actively involved and as if they are truly religious. Some people also studied Buddhism, flirted with Roman Catholicism or spent time with Quakers, but ultimately found them lacking. 3. For women, it is a big and welcome change from the "in your face" sexuality of western culture. Women are not required by the Qur'an to veil. They are required to dress modestly and it is *recommended* that they cover their hair. However, most do veil and some go farther with niquab (the face screen) or other traditional clothes. Women dressed like this consider themselves marked as religious women, not easy dates. They don't get hit on. No one gawks at their bodies. They are clearly off limits sexually and many that I personally know say it is liberating not to have to conform to western standards of sexy dress, makeup and spending so much time and money on appearance. You buy a five-dollar hijab, put your hair in a ponytail and cover, wear long skirt and a tunic shirt -you're set. 4. Islam is also growing because many people are not satisfied with Christianity. They feel it is too liberal, too fluid and changes for the culture. Islam on the other hand is more rigid and does not as a whole allow much for modern changes and the whims of society. Many like it because they feel other religions have loose standards. A person like me who is unfamiliar with Islamic teachings might be surprised to hear that Islam is not a “re
Most Islamic societies aren't theocratic. I find it interesting that the three largest Islamic countries have had women heads of state (Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh), while the same can't be said of the three largest Christian countries. [[ Violence against women : Husbands or boyfriends murder three women each day in the United States. And more than 700 women are raped or sexually assaulted every day ]] The so-called freedom of western women and child http://www.quietmountainessays.org/WHRB.html http://web.amnesty.org/actforwomen/scandal-index-eng MY BODY IS MY OWN BUSINESS http://www.jannah.org/sisters/naheed.html Women in Christianity and Islam (see the difference): http://www.jamiat.org.za/isinfo/wchristian.html