DVD DRM row sparks user rebellion
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No, I've just exposed the double standard of some people who make their livings via intellectual property, yet who disrespect the IP rights of others.
-------------------------------- "All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke
Richie308 wrote:
No, I've just exposed the double standard of some people who make their livings via intellectual property, yet who disrespect the IP rights of others.
What double standard? I purchased $20 worth of music last night on iTunes. The first thing I did was remove the DRM (using iTunes itself) and then placed DRM free copies on my MP3 server so that my networked player in my living room can play the music that I bought. Now I can also listen to them on any MP3 player that I choose, not just my iPod. I have no intention of distributing the songs to anyone other than me. The whole process would have taken 10 seconds instead of a half hour if they had just sold me DRM free music in the first place, and the result would be the same. I hate piracy of IP. I get into arguments with people over it all the time, and I have no pirated movies, music or software (and I have a lot of all that stuff). But DRM is counterproductive and actually harmful to everyone, even the people who think they want it.
Faith is a fine invention For gentlemen who see; But microscopes are prudent In an emergency! -Emily Dickinson
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Vega02 wrote:
So, using this logic in the argument that you gave, you'd be free to use PimpFish however you want provided you pay for it.
This is where you are wrong. Because once I do pay for PimpFish, I am still bound by the license agreement. And if the license agreement states that I am not to remove any technical limitations, then I would be wrong to do so. I think some people grasp at straws to find any rationale they can in order to make it OK to dishonor the IP rights of others.
-------------------------------- "All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke
Richie308 wrote:
This is where you are wrong. Because once I do pay for PimpFish, I am still bound by the license agreement. And if the license agreement states that I am not to remove any technical limitations, then I would be wrong to do so.
There is no license agreement when buying music. I buy MY copy of the music to do with what I wish, within the limitations of the law, meaning I don't get to give it away to others. It is and always has been your fair use right to format-shift and time-shift media. Think recording stuff on your VCR, which the Supreme Court ruled legal. What the DMCA did is remove that right by making it illegal to use the technical means to do so - that is, removing DRM so that you can play, for example, a DVD on your computer instead of the DVD player. Oh, you still have your fair use rights, they say - it's just illegal for you to exercise them.
Richie308 wrote:
I think some people grasp at straws to find any rationale they can in order to make it OK to dishonor the IP rights of others.
I think it's sad when someone has bought the corporate line hook, line and sinker without regard to their own rights.
Cheers, Patrick
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Richie308 wrote:
You characterize my posts as "rant" and "tirade"
Just the one (the sarcastic tirade). The ranting about illegals frankly made no sense to me, so i'm gonna just continue to ignore it.
Richie308 wrote:
it is obvious that you are the one who is getting too hot under the collar.
Ah... no. Little do you realize, i'm not wearing a collar... ;P
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It appears that everybody is under the impression that I approve of the documentation. You probably also blame Ken Burns for supporting slavery.
--Raymond Chen on MSDN
Shog9 wrote:
i'm not wearing a collar
And let's just stop there. God only knows where this could go from here, illegal immigrants, HD video, IP infringement, Mike's PimpFish software...it's enough to make my entire moral world view quake on it's foundation! Oh the sordid web we weave...
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
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Shog9 wrote:
i'm not wearing a collar
And let's just stop there. God only knows where this could go from here, illegal immigrants, HD video, IP infringement, Mike's PimpFish software...it's enough to make my entire moral world view quake on it's foundation! Oh the sordid web we weave...
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
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Maybe both sides are wrong here?
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So now stealing == "anything you don't want to happen"? Fantastic! :rolleyes:
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It appears that everybody is under the impression that I approve of the documentation. You probably also blame Ken Burns for supporting slavery.
--Raymond Chen on MSDN
If that's the case, I'm sitting here naked. They took everything including my clothes! :shiver:
-- Raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
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Once I got to "Attempts to gag the blogosphere", and finished pumping the remains of my stomach, I promptly moved on. The blogosphere. A dumber name I can't think of.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
Jim Crafton wrote:
The blogosphere. A dumber name I can't think of.
Never heard it before? Lucky you - under which rock did you hide, and is there still room for me? ;)
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|FoldWithUs! | sighist -
Michael Dunn wrote:
That's what RIAA and MPAA want you to think. Removing DRM != stealing
So I guess you won't mind at all if I remove any and all limitations from PimpFish, and freely distribute it to whomever I please for no charge and with no compensation to you. Plus, I'll have your complete blessing to reverse engineer it, and include its functionality in MY application, also with no compensation to you.
-------------------------------- "All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke
Thats a different situation. DRM for the sake of protecting an artist or creator of the content isn't bad itself. DRM forcing you to But HARDWARE you dont want is disgusting. If I have an HD-DVD setup with a sweet monitor that I love, I don't wantt o pay however much it is for a movie only to find that I cant play it because I'm not using the Monitorthat this particular manufacturer wants me to. Many VCR Tapes have protection on them, but that protection doesn't stop you from watching the movie in ANY VCR player.DVD's can be played on ANY Dvd player, yet most hve protection on them, so what the industries problem with creating a DRM that isn't hardware specific?
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Jim Crafton wrote:
The blogosphere. A dumber name I can't think of.
Never heard it before? Lucky you - under which rock did you hide, and is there still room for me? ;)
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|FoldWithUs! | sighistOh, I'd heard of it before (sadly), I just can't get over what an idiotic name it is.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
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If that's the case, I'm sitting here naked. They took everything including my clothes! :shiver:
-- Raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
Oh you dirty little tease - that's not fair to do in the Lounge!
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
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Michael Dunn wrote:
That's what RIAA and MPAA want you to think. Removing DRM != stealing
So I guess you won't mind at all if I remove any and all limitations from PimpFish, and freely distribute it to whomever I please for no charge and with no compensation to you. Plus, I'll have your complete blessing to reverse engineer it, and include its functionality in MY application, also with no compensation to you.
-------------------------------- "All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke
Richie308 wrote:
freely distribute it to whomever I please for no charge and with no compensation to you
No, that would be trafficing in stolen goods. DRM and hardware lock-in is a Bad Thing. Distributing softwre, music, videos etc to others without them paying for it is an Illegal Thing. Yes, one makes the other easier, but they aren't the same.
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
The 9 things Microsoft should be announcing at MIX07 (but won't)
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Oh you dirty little tease - that's not fair to do in the Lounge!
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
Hey... Richie308 has the IP rights for that one. Blame him!!!
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Playing Devils advocate here but DRM has no little or no effect on piracy, in a sense they are trying to lock the door after the horse has bolted - Go onto any torrent network and see the millions of people online to prove it. In the end DRM just impacts on legitimate consumers (as in the article), without raising a sweat on the illegitimate ISO buffs. Corps like the RIAA just promote bad feeling, scare tactics and confusion.
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Michael Dunn wrote:
That's what RIAA and MPAA want you to think. Removing DRM != stealing
So I guess you won't mind at all if I remove any and all limitations from PimpFish, and freely distribute it to whomever I please for no charge and with no compensation to you. Plus, I'll have your complete blessing to reverse engineer it, and include its functionality in MY application, also with no compensation to you.
-------------------------------- "All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke
Richie308 wrote:
So I guess you won't mind at all if I remove any and all limitations from PimpFish, and freely distribute it to whomever I please for no charge and with no compensation to you.
Which is all well and good, but that's not what we're talking about. I want to be able to watch the movies on linux, or to rip them to xvid to watch on my standalone player. I've no interest in distributing them with no charge or compensation to the movie makers, I just want to be able to use the movie that I purchased as I see fit. DRM doesn't let me do so, removal of it does.
David Parrott
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Michael Dunn wrote:
That's what RIAA and MPAA want you to think. Removing DRM != stealing
So I guess you won't mind at all if I remove any and all limitations from PimpFish, and freely distribute it to whomever I please for no charge and with no compensation to you. Plus, I'll have your complete blessing to reverse engineer it, and include its functionality in MY application, also with no compensation to you.
-------------------------------- "All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke
Guess again - THAT would be stealing...
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Richie308 wrote:
The nerve of people who think that they are entitled to have HD movies for free is very much like the illegal aliens who think they are entitled to U.S. citizenship simply because they made it across the border.
The issue over the DRM key has nothing to do with wanting the disc for free - it has to do with wanting to watch the movie YOU BOUGHT on a device other than the DVD player the content producers tell you you can play it on. Thus, the big row over iTunes and iPod lockin and why Steve Jobs is pushing the music industry to sell music online without DRM.
Cheers, Patrick
GJ Patrick, < The issue over the DRM key has nothing to do with wanting the disc for free - it has to do with wanting to watch the movie YOU BOUGHT on a device other than the DVD player the content producers tell you you can play it on. > It also has to do with playing the Music and movies You Bought on your network in your home that you expect to work with 'Whole House' Media Systems It also has to do with 'the legal endeavor' of making a personal backup copy.
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Hey... Richie308 has the IP rights for that one. Blame him!!!
I'm afraid he'll Copy and Paste me to death! That or expose the deadly double entendre that we've all come to grasp! Either way he makes me 'ascared! :)
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
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Michael Dunn wrote:
That's what RIAA and MPAA want you to think. Removing DRM != stealing
So I guess you won't mind at all if I remove any and all limitations from PimpFish, and freely distribute it to whomever I please for no charge and with no compensation to you. Plus, I'll have your complete blessing to reverse engineer it, and include its functionality in MY application, also with no compensation to you.
-------------------------------- "All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke
You're f***n dumb to think RIAA and MPAA puts drm to avoid pirating movies and stuff. From the beginning of computing people stole code, programs and data everywhere. That is not new. But manufacturer are always trying to boost their profits because a company that does not grow, is shrinking. So, if you don't find ways for making your customer buying your stuff, you'll be constrained to bankruptcy. Media giants are selling a whole lot of music, movies and other contents, but the offer is always very high and the demand tend to diminish due to all the free media content on the net, so they are trying to sue everybody that is posting media content under copyright to the www and obligate people to buy their stuff instead of sharing it with each other. That a reaction of the industry to boost their sales. For sure, that is not to protect artists and movie makers. They are all very rich and they don't care about people who buy their disc. If they did care, they'll sell them at much lower prices so we'll prefer to buy a real genuine version for 10$ of quality instead of a crappy, poorly compressed version that we download and delete after viewing it. I'm sure that a dvd doesn't cost 30$ to make, I can buy a pack of 50 dvds for 16$... so stop trying to make us pay too much, sell at the real price and we'll buy it. Until then, happy downloading for every one.
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Richie308 wrote:
This is where you are wrong. Because once I do pay for PimpFish, I am still bound by the license agreement. And if the license agreement states that I am not to remove any technical limitations, then I would be wrong to do so.
There is no license agreement when buying music. I buy MY copy of the music to do with what I wish, within the limitations of the law, meaning I don't get to give it away to others. It is and always has been your fair use right to format-shift and time-shift media. Think recording stuff on your VCR, which the Supreme Court ruled legal. What the DMCA did is remove that right by making it illegal to use the technical means to do so - that is, removing DRM so that you can play, for example, a DVD on your computer instead of the DVD player. Oh, you still have your fair use rights, they say - it's just illegal for you to exercise them.
Richie308 wrote:
I think some people grasp at straws to find any rationale they can in order to make it OK to dishonor the IP rights of others.
I think it's sad when someone has bought the corporate line hook, line and sinker without regard to their own rights.
Cheers, Patrick
This ultra-pro-business will hopefully begin to reverse after the 2008 elections. So much media protection has been lost for 'the people': former regulations that prevented a single media corporation from dominating the media in a single market (multiple TV stations, for example) are gone. I'll cut short my desire to launch a tirade of how much damage has been done through buyouts, mergers, and acquisitions from regulatory agencies that don't regulate anything if you have enough PAC money. The issue here would seem to be that if a new DRM scheme comes out, and requires any sort of new equipment, then that should be clearly stated on the packaging (in a legable font). After that, it's the same as buying any media: if you buy a DVD and all you have to play it on is a VCR, then you need to consider purchasing the player or returning the disk. BUT, by the same token, it should be illegal for a piece of media to modify the operation of your PC (etc.), and the corporations that do so should be subject to severe criminal and civil fines. It's not their right to modify YOUR equipment. Period. To do so MUST be at their risk in every sense of the word. The scenario becomes, more and more, one of laws preempting rights in order to prevent 'crimes' that didn't occur, and might never occur. Damn - outlaw matches - just in case you might use them to commit arson.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
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Michael Dunn wrote:
That's what RIAA and MPAA want you to think. Removing DRM != stealing
So I guess you won't mind at all if I remove any and all limitations from PimpFish, and freely distribute it to whomever I please for no charge and with no compensation to you. Plus, I'll have your complete blessing to reverse engineer it, and include its functionality in MY application, also with no compensation to you.
-------------------------------- "All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke
