Who's the Greater? The Developer, The SysAdmin, The NetAdmin or some other I.T. Guy?
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This is inspired by John Simmons' Message on Admin Rights. It is time to communicate something. I thought the developers wrote the apps on any OS that sysadmins and netadmins configure.:cool::cool: I thought they are even taught by developers, how to go around those stuff as how to configure, install and administer their various server apps, but from the article by John subjected Admin Rights?, developers are walking on fallowed grounds, begging to have access to the OS features developed by developers, how strange.:confused: Remember, the programmer cum developer are creators as in creative, sysadmins, netadmins are administrators, they use what has been created to achieve a general purpose. So who on your pick is the greater? I go for the developer cos development (i mean software) allows you to know all the stuff about database admin, sys admin, net admin, and even electrical engineering as in programming circuits (remember the machine language on some strange processor). So who on your pick is the greater?
AlbertDadze
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This is inspired by John Simmons' Message on Admin Rights. It is time to communicate something. I thought the developers wrote the apps on any OS that sysadmins and netadmins configure.:cool::cool: I thought they are even taught by developers, how to go around those stuff as how to configure, install and administer their various server apps, but from the article by John subjected Admin Rights?, developers are walking on fallowed grounds, begging to have access to the OS features developed by developers, how strange.:confused: Remember, the programmer cum developer are creators as in creative, sysadmins, netadmins are administrators, they use what has been created to achieve a general purpose. So who on your pick is the greater? I go for the developer cos development (i mean software) allows you to know all the stuff about database admin, sys admin, net admin, and even electrical engineering as in programming circuits (remember the machine language on some strange processor). So who on your pick is the greater?
AlbertDadze
If we're going to compare things that way, I'll throw the manufacturer in the mix, and say they are greatest. Without computers to code on, developers couldn't gloat their superiority over sys admins. ;P
BW
Quick to judge, quick to anger, slow to understand.
Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand.
-- Neil Peart -
If we're going to compare things that way, I'll throw the manufacturer in the mix, and say they are greatest. Without computers to code on, developers couldn't gloat their superiority over sys admins. ;P
BW
Quick to judge, quick to anger, slow to understand.
Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand.
-- Neil PeartWhat about the minimum wage worker who does all of the production and preproduction work.
God Bless, Jason
DavidCrow wrote:
It would not affect me or my family one iota. My wife and I are in charge of when the tv is on, and what it displays. I do not need any external input for that.
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This is inspired by John Simmons' Message on Admin Rights. It is time to communicate something. I thought the developers wrote the apps on any OS that sysadmins and netadmins configure.:cool::cool: I thought they are even taught by developers, how to go around those stuff as how to configure, install and administer their various server apps, but from the article by John subjected Admin Rights?, developers are walking on fallowed grounds, begging to have access to the OS features developed by developers, how strange.:confused: Remember, the programmer cum developer are creators as in creative, sysadmins, netadmins are administrators, they use what has been created to achieve a general purpose. So who on your pick is the greater? I go for the developer cos development (i mean software) allows you to know all the stuff about database admin, sys admin, net admin, and even electrical engineering as in programming circuits (remember the machine language on some strange processor). So who on your pick is the greater?
AlbertDadze
Coder - the guy who shouldn't even be touching a computer Programmer - the guy who shouldn't be writing code Developer - the guy who thinks he's a programmer but isn't Guru - the guy who invented admin rights to control the top three sysadmin - a manager position, created by a manager, to control the guru netadmin - a manager position, created by a manager, to control everyone else Ultimately, the whole system fails and is replaced by the sneakernet. Or, nowadays, USB memory sticks. Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smith -
This is inspired by John Simmons' Message on Admin Rights. It is time to communicate something. I thought the developers wrote the apps on any OS that sysadmins and netadmins configure.:cool::cool: I thought they are even taught by developers, how to go around those stuff as how to configure, install and administer their various server apps, but from the article by John subjected Admin Rights?, developers are walking on fallowed grounds, begging to have access to the OS features developed by developers, how strange.:confused: Remember, the programmer cum developer are creators as in creative, sysadmins, netadmins are administrators, they use what has been created to achieve a general purpose. So who on your pick is the greater? I go for the developer cos development (i mean software) allows you to know all the stuff about database admin, sys admin, net admin, and even electrical engineering as in programming circuits (remember the machine language on some strange processor). So who on your pick is the greater?
AlbertDadze
chuck norris duh!!
"there is no spoon" {me}
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What about the minimum wage worker who does all of the production and preproduction work.
God Bless, Jason
DavidCrow wrote:
It would not affect me or my family one iota. My wife and I are in charge of when the tv is on, and what it displays. I do not need any external input for that.
Now you're talking! We can't forget those folks, or the people that build their tools, etc...
BW
Quick to judge, quick to anger, slow to understand.
Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand.
-- Neil Peart -
chuck norris duh!!
"there is no spoon" {me}
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This is inspired by John Simmons' Message on Admin Rights. It is time to communicate something. I thought the developers wrote the apps on any OS that sysadmins and netadmins configure.:cool::cool: I thought they are even taught by developers, how to go around those stuff as how to configure, install and administer their various server apps, but from the article by John subjected Admin Rights?, developers are walking on fallowed grounds, begging to have access to the OS features developed by developers, how strange.:confused: Remember, the programmer cum developer are creators as in creative, sysadmins, netadmins are administrators, they use what has been created to achieve a general purpose. So who on your pick is the greater? I go for the developer cos development (i mean software) allows you to know all the stuff about database admin, sys admin, net admin, and even electrical engineering as in programming circuits (remember the machine language on some strange processor). So who on your pick is the greater?
AlbertDadze
In my experience if you care one iota for a stable network, you keep the developers as far away from server and network administration as you can. Furthermore, at any given site, a company's developers create a tiny fraction of the software that has to run on the network. Why are developers so arrogant as a group that they believe they understand the full complexity of the network they are dealing with (and understand ALL the other projects going on as well)?
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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chuck norris duh!!
"there is no spoon" {me}
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Man! man!! man!!! I never mean you become an all-rounder of an I.T. guy, I mean you gain colorful insight into other areas of I.T. I am beginning to wonder, if u ever written a database app, or ever used Active Directory as a security model or ever a linux system app. Get some books Man, it is important as a developer to have fundamental knowledge of every other IT concerns.
AlbertDadze
Albert Dadze wrote:
I am beginning to wonder
you really do NOT want my resume. :) Honest. :)
Albert Dadze wrote:
Get some books Man, it is important as a developer to have fundamental knowledge of every other IT concerns
I do, and I have. However, regardless of my prior experience before here, I was actually referring to another member here who is an independant contractor. I was a one-man shop for a small-company, never independant contracting unless you count about a handful of forays into that realm, but who knows what the future holds. Anyhow, he and other independants here give me hope I could make the break again. I think my direction would still be R&D though, I would miss the quest for new software technologies too much. :)
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Coder - the guy who shouldn't even be touching a computer Programmer - the guy who shouldn't be writing code Developer - the guy who thinks he's a programmer but isn't Guru - the guy who invented admin rights to control the top three sysadmin - a manager position, created by a manager, to control the guru netadmin - a manager position, created by a manager, to control everyone else Ultimately, the whole system fails and is replaced by the sneakernet. Or, nowadays, USB memory sticks. Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithMarc Clifton wrote:
Or, nowadays, USB memory sticks.
about to be blocked here. :) CD sneakernet will remain though.... ironically. :laugh:
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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This is inspired by John Simmons' Message on Admin Rights. It is time to communicate something. I thought the developers wrote the apps on any OS that sysadmins and netadmins configure.:cool::cool: I thought they are even taught by developers, how to go around those stuff as how to configure, install and administer their various server apps, but from the article by John subjected Admin Rights?, developers are walking on fallowed grounds, begging to have access to the OS features developed by developers, how strange.:confused: Remember, the programmer cum developer are creators as in creative, sysadmins, netadmins are administrators, they use what has been created to achieve a general purpose. So who on your pick is the greater? I go for the developer cos development (i mean software) allows you to know all the stuff about database admin, sys admin, net admin, and even electrical engineering as in programming circuits (remember the machine language on some strange processor). So who on your pick is the greater?
AlbertDadze
Since I perform all the duties of all of the above I am not sure what to say.
John
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Marc Clifton wrote:
Or, nowadays, USB memory sticks.
about to be blocked here. :) CD sneakernet will remain though.... ironically. :laugh:
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Lemmie guess. Someone's having a conniption over the fact that you can't write protect a USB stick.
-- You have to explain to them [VB coders] what you mean by "typed". their first response is likely to be something like, "Of course my code is typed. Do you think i magically project it onto the screen with the power of my mind?" --- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
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This is inspired by John Simmons' Message on Admin Rights. It is time to communicate something. I thought the developers wrote the apps on any OS that sysadmins and netadmins configure.:cool::cool: I thought they are even taught by developers, how to go around those stuff as how to configure, install and administer their various server apps, but from the article by John subjected Admin Rights?, developers are walking on fallowed grounds, begging to have access to the OS features developed by developers, how strange.:confused: Remember, the programmer cum developer are creators as in creative, sysadmins, netadmins are administrators, they use what has been created to achieve a general purpose. So who on your pick is the greater? I go for the developer cos development (i mean software) allows you to know all the stuff about database admin, sys admin, net admin, and even electrical engineering as in programming circuits (remember the machine language on some strange processor). So who on your pick is the greater?
AlbertDadze
Apologies for the analogy, but .... Letting your developers have Admin rights is akin to letting the brick layers inpsect and signoff on the electrical for a house that's going up. Not a good idea. :)
Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar]
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Lemmie guess. Someone's having a conniption over the fact that you can't write protect a USB stick.
-- You have to explain to them [VB coders] what you mean by "typed". their first response is likely to be something like, "Of course my code is typed. Do you think i magically project it onto the screen with the power of my mind?" --- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
dan neely wrote:
Someone's having a conniption over the fact that you can't write protect a USB stick.
nope, strictly form a bring software/data in/out. I asked about the CD issue, they honestly hadn't even thought about that, especially based the expressions. I am sure CDs and floppies will follow, we'll all have thin-station machines with no read-write capability shortly there-after. Silly me. Then they can replace my network computer with a internet appliance picture frame and I'd probably gain some processing power. ;)
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Albert Dadze wrote:
I am beginning to wonder
you really do NOT want my resume. :) Honest. :)
Albert Dadze wrote:
Get some books Man, it is important as a developer to have fundamental knowledge of every other IT concerns
I do, and I have. However, regardless of my prior experience before here, I was actually referring to another member here who is an independant contractor. I was a one-man shop for a small-company, never independant contracting unless you count about a handful of forays into that realm, but who knows what the future holds. Anyhow, he and other independants here give me hope I could make the break again. I think my direction would still be R&D though, I would miss the quest for new software technologies too much. :)
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
El Corazon wrote:
you really do NOT want my resume. Honest.
Alright Man, to be honest, I hope you don't consider my statement as an insult, just trying to express some points.
AlbertDadze
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Now you're talking! We can't forget those folks, or the people that build their tools, etc...
BW
Quick to judge, quick to anger, slow to understand.
Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand.
-- Neil PeartWhat about the truck drivers, driving down the road or the steel worker in Detroit or the coal miner in the holes.:laugh: I feel an old Alabama song coming on.;)
God Bless, Jason
DavidCrow wrote:
It would not affect me or my family one iota. My wife and I are in charge of when the tv is on, and what it displays. I do not need any external input for that.
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El Corazon wrote:
you really do NOT want my resume. Honest.
Alright Man, to be honest, I hope you don't consider my statement as an insult, just trying to express some points.
AlbertDadze
Albert Dadze wrote:
just trying to express some points
As I was. I have a great deal of respect for the one-man shop, he's got to sell, develop and maintain everything. And make a living at it! (hopefully) I specialize nowadays, but I have a very strong respect for those individuals who go independant contractors and survive doing it. :)
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Albert Dadze wrote:
So who on your pick is the greater?
The one man shop. He is developer, sys admin, net admin and all other IT guys. Go Rex go! :-D
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Ed.Poore wrote:
I'm one of them
Your wish M'Lord? :laugh: seriously though, I may join you folks soon. Just not wanting to make the jump blind. I am officially registered and ready though. :)
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)