Killing out of curiosity
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6639027.stm[^]
wrote:
They told police they knew it was wrong to kill but it "felt right", and they did not regret Davis's death.
:| How could they not feel bad even after committing a crime like this.
Statements like this bother me: Two teenage girls in Western Australia have been sentenced to life in prison for killing a friend to see whether they would feel remorse at the deed. Is that really why they were sentenced to life in prison? :rolleyes:
Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliot Me blog, You read
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Statements like this bother me: Two teenage girls in Western Australia have been sentenced to life in prison for killing a friend to see whether they would feel remorse at the deed. Is that really why they were sentenced to life in prison? :rolleyes:
Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliot Me blog, You read
Gary Kirkham wrote:
Is that really why they were sentenced to life in prison? :rolleyes:
Indeed! I always get puzzled when people are exmained for mental insanity after they've killed someone. Aren't overyone that kills another person, other than in self defense, mentally ill in some way and how can anyone claim otherwise? :~ The idea that a murderer is considered mentally healthy is somewhat foreign to me.
"It's supposed to be hard, otherwise anybody could do it!" - selfquote
"High speed never compensates for wrong direction!" - unknown -
Gary Kirkham wrote:
Is that really why they were sentenced to life in prison? :rolleyes:
Indeed! I always get puzzled when people are exmained for mental insanity after they've killed someone. Aren't overyone that kills another person, other than in self defense, mentally ill in some way and how can anyone claim otherwise? :~ The idea that a murderer is considered mentally healthy is somewhat foreign to me.
"It's supposed to be hard, otherwise anybody could do it!" - selfquote
"High speed never compensates for wrong direction!" - unknownI have seen interviews with convicted murderers on talk shows. It seemed to me that most of the people in the studio audience were more upset with the fact that he felt no remorse than they were at the actual crime. That seems all ot of whack to me. If you commit a crime then you receive punishment that fits that crime. What difference does it make how the criminal feels?
Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliot Me blog, You read
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6639027.stm[^]
wrote:
They told police they knew it was wrong to kill but it "felt right", and they did not regret Davis's death.
:| How could they not feel bad even after committing a crime like this.
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From the article:
The girls were jailed for life, with a minimum sentence of 15 years.
I'll never understand this kind of sentencing... :|
"I'm a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work the more I have of it." - Thomas Jefferson
The life sentence in India is 18 years. They consider that term good enough for a person to change. I think they can get multiple life sentence and end up serving two or more terms.
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From the article:
The girls were jailed for life, with a minimum sentence of 15 years.
I'll never understand this kind of sentencing... :|
"I'm a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work the more I have of it." - Thomas Jefferson
My guess would be bad writing and a sentence of 15years to life, as opposed to life without the possibility of parole.
-- You have to explain to them [VB coders] what you mean by "typed". their first response is likely to be something like, "Of course my code is typed. Do you think i magically project it onto the screen with the power of my mind?" --- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6639027.stm[^]
wrote:
They told police they knew it was wrong to kill but it "felt right", and they did not regret Davis's death.
:| How could they not feel bad even after committing a crime like this.
Makes me sick to my stomach.
God Bless, Jason
DavidCrow wrote:
It would not affect me or my family one iota. My wife and I are in charge of when the tv is on, and what it displays. I do not need any external input for that.
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Statements like this bother me: Two teenage girls in Western Australia have been sentenced to life in prison for killing a friend to see whether they would feel remorse at the deed. Is that really why they were sentenced to life in prison? :rolleyes:
Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliot Me blog, You read
Gary Kirkham wrote:
Two teenage girls in Western Australia have been sentenced to life in prison for killing a friend to see whether they would feel remorse at the deed. Is that really why they were sentenced to life in prison? :rolleyes:
I think you are either jesting or reading it wrong - the motive for the killing was "to see whether they would feel remorse at the deed" The reason for the sentence was that they committed murder, regardless of their motive...
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My guess would be bad writing and a sentence of 15years to life, as opposed to life without the possibility of parole.
-- You have to explain to them [VB coders] what you mean by "typed". their first response is likely to be something like, "Of course my code is typed. Do you think i magically project it onto the screen with the power of my mind?" --- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
dan neely wrote:
a sentence of 15 years to life, as opposed to life without the possibility of parole.
I understand the legality of the sentence, I don't agree with the concept. For a teenager, the difference between 15 years and a life sentence is huge.
"I'm a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work the more I have of it." - Thomas Jefferson
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From the article:
The girls were jailed for life, with a minimum sentence of 15 years.
I'll never understand this kind of sentencing... :|
"I'm a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work the more I have of it." - Thomas Jefferson
Mike Mullikin wrote:
I'll never understand this kind of sentencing...
Maximum sentence is life (I always love when they use 10 consecutive life sentences myself) with first parole review at 15 years. As mentioned there are other alternative sentences like "life without parole" (meaning there is no doubt that this person can never rehabilitate and convincing evidence that the crime would be repeated [no remorse, no understanding or caring for laws, other anti-social concepts]).
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
I'll never understand this kind of sentencing...
Maximum sentence is life (I always love when they use 10 consecutive life sentences myself) with first parole review at 15 years. As mentioned there are other alternative sentences like "life without parole" (meaning there is no doubt that this person can never rehabilitate and convincing evidence that the crime would be repeated [no remorse, no understanding or caring for laws, other anti-social concepts]).
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Poor choice of words on my part. I "understand" the sentence, I just don't agree with such a broad range of time. For a teenager the difference between 15 years and life is huge.
"I'm a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work the more I have of it." - Thomas Jefferson
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I have seen interviews with convicted murderers on talk shows. It seemed to me that most of the people in the studio audience were more upset with the fact that he felt no remorse than they were at the actual crime. That seems all ot of whack to me. If you commit a crime then you receive punishment that fits that crime. What difference does it make how the criminal feels?
Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliot Me blog, You read
The point is that people have a(n understandable) fascination to know what kind of mind murderers have... they then get "upset" if s/he shows no remorse, because it places them outside of their intuitive understanding of human nature (which naturally enough is based on their own nature)... and if there's one thing guaranteed to upset most people, it's other people they can't understand.... Fred
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I have seen interviews with convicted murderers on talk shows. It seemed to me that most of the people in the studio audience were more upset with the fact that he felt no remorse than they were at the actual crime. That seems all ot of whack to me. If you commit a crime then you receive punishment that fits that crime. What difference does it make how the criminal feels?
Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliot Me blog, You read
Ofcourse it matters, motivation is a big part of the punishment determination. If the person is likely to commit the crime again he should be put away forever. If there were special circumstances then, this can be reason for less punishment.
Wout
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6639027.stm[^]
wrote:
They told police they knew it was wrong to kill but it "felt right", and they did not regret Davis's death.
:| How could they not feel bad even after committing a crime like this.
A moral vacuum.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6639027.stm[^]
wrote:
They told police they knew it was wrong to kill but it "felt right", and they did not regret Davis's death.
:| How could they not feel bad even after committing a crime like this.
Ever see the Hitchcock classic "Rope?" Outstanding movie, one of my favorites. A crime like this is the premise of the film, and where I got my name from :)
Faith is a fine invention For gentlemen who see; But microscopes are prudent In an emergency! -Emily Dickinson
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6639027.stm[^]
wrote:
They told police they knew it was wrong to kill but it "felt right", and they did not regret Davis's death.
:| How could they not feel bad even after committing a crime like this.
Tarakeshwar Reddy wrote:
How could they not feel bad even after committing a crime like this.
Any number of reasons: A) Anti-social issues (these would fall in mental illness category, including narcissism which is the ultimate of anti-social issues, since only the person matters all other people in the world are irrelevant, therefore anything can be done to anyone else) B) argumentum ad consequentiam (appeal to consequences): because this was the only way to solve the "unknown", therefore it was right to do it. C) suppressed correlative: everyone is of no consequence to somebody, therefore everyone is of no consequence and may be disposed of at will D) Reductio ad absurdum: because person Y said this was bad, we hate person Y, therefore this must be good and justifiable. (depending how phrased this is also a form of argumentum ad hominem in either positive or negative form, x is bad because y supports x and we y is bad) E) argumentum ad antiquitatem (in reverse) because this is a rule that has always been, therefore it must be ignored. All in all, anyone can justify anything for any reason quite easily. The human mind is quite capable of helping cope with such issues by suppressing the required responses.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Poor choice of words on my part. I "understand" the sentence, I just don't agree with such a broad range of time. For a teenager the difference between 15 years and life is huge.
"I'm a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work the more I have of it." - Thomas Jefferson
Mike Mullikin wrote:
For a teenager the difference between 15 years and life is huge.
This is the primary reason for parole, and regular parole hearings. The minimum sentence is just that, the minimum. At each parole hearing there is evidence given as to why the person should be kept in prison, and why the person should be released, the evidence is weighed every parole hearing independently (theoretically, but it is usually the same board with minor changes now and then). Once the evidence is weighed, the person is released or kept, and if kept another parole hearing is scheduled. This will continue indefinately as long as the person does not show the proper changes to be released. What those changes are, can be and often are debatable. 15 years to a teenager is a long time too. After that it is up to the person to change, or accept the consequences of not changing. There is personal choice in there too.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Ofcourse it matters, motivation is a big part of the punishment determination. If the person is likely to commit the crime again he should be put away forever. If there were special circumstances then, this can be reason for less punishment.
Wout
We were discussing remorse,which is different than motivation. If intense hate motivated me to kill someone, should I receive less punishment because I somehow felt remorse afterward?
Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliot Me blog, You read
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
For a teenager the difference between 15 years and life is huge.
This is the primary reason for parole, and regular parole hearings. The minimum sentence is just that, the minimum. At each parole hearing there is evidence given as to why the person should be kept in prison, and why the person should be released, the evidence is weighed every parole hearing independently (theoretically, but it is usually the same board with minor changes now and then). Once the evidence is weighed, the person is released or kept, and if kept another parole hearing is scheduled. This will continue indefinately as long as the person does not show the proper changes to be released. What those changes are, can be and often are debatable. 15 years to a teenager is a long time too. After that it is up to the person to change, or accept the consequences of not changing. There is personal choice in there too.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
El Corazon wrote:
This is the primary reason for...
Of course, but when it comes to murder I like my punishments a little more "cut and dried" than "15 to life". Rehabilitation is a joke. IMO its all about punishment and keeping another fiend off the streets.
"I'm a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work the more I have of it." - Thomas Jefferson
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Gary Kirkham wrote:
Two teenage girls in Western Australia have been sentenced to life in prison for killing a friend to see whether they would feel remorse at the deed. Is that really why they were sentenced to life in prison? :rolleyes:
I think you are either jesting or reading it wrong - the motive for the killing was "to see whether they would feel remorse at the deed" The reason for the sentence was that they committed murder, regardless of their motive...
I see how you can read it that way, but the piece didn't say what the motive was, in fact here is a cite from the article: "Their lawyers said experts were baffled as to the motivation behind the attack." I could read the following as saying, "We decided to kill her and discussed whether or not we would feel remorse afterward." They had been discussing how neither would feel bad about committing murder when they decided to kill Davis, who was sleeping in another room, a court heard in April.
Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliot Me blog, You read