Lean Software Development
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Hi All, I got a chance to participate (here in NC\Charlotte) to a discussion on the above topic yesterday mainly driven by Tom and Mary.. and Lean is what Toyota use too, and some leading software companies already looking into this concept.. It is likely to override Agile.. Anyone who has already implemented this?..
L.W.C. Nirosh. Colombo, Sri Lanka.
Sounds like an opportunity to jump on a new fad before it's been completely discredited. I think I'll pass.
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Hi All, I got a chance to participate (here in NC\Charlotte) to a discussion on the above topic yesterday mainly driven by Tom and Mary.. and Lean is what Toyota use too, and some leading software companies already looking into this concept.. It is likely to override Agile.. Anyone who has already implemented this?..
L.W.C. Nirosh. Colombo, Sri Lanka.
LSD is from the same cadre that brought us Six Sigma. Likely it suffers from the same problem: trying to apply control theory intended for controllable processes to the fundamentally uncontrollable process of software development. Agile wrapped in Six Sigma mindset. What a downer.
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Nirosh wrote:
Anyone who has already implemented this?..
I am only looking into it. Mostly because I think I can get management behind lean support since we have a lean working group trying to make the production process of everything lean. Agile people just roll their eyes at, but lean, their eyes grow wide with, "we want lean, tell me more." Any input would be welcome on this end as well.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
"Lean" would be the absense of arbitrary / contrived / artifical design or implementation paradigms developed by PhDs for the sole purpose of generating consulting fees or book sales. :)
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
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"Lean" would be the absense of arbitrary / contrived / artifical design or implementation paradigms developed by PhDs for the sole purpose of generating consulting fees or book sales. :)
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
Christopher Duncan wrote:
"Lean" would be the absense of arbitrary / contrived / artifical design or implementation paradigms developed by PhDs for the sole purpose of generating consulting fees or book sales.
well, actually, Lean is a business practice that has been around a while. The defense has already had Lean mandates, so for me it is just easier to get Management to listen if I call it Lean than if I call it Agile. Beyond a few business buzz-words, a good deal of it is common sense, just a rigid methodology for attempting to recognize common sense. After all, you have to include "Sales and Marketing" in the list of people who have to understand it. ;) http://www.defenselink.mil/transformation/articles/2004-11/ta111904e.html[^]
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Hi All, I got a chance to participate (here in NC\Charlotte) to a discussion on the above topic yesterday mainly driven by Tom and Mary.. and Lean is what Toyota use too, and some leading software companies already looking into this concept.. It is likely to override Agile.. Anyone who has already implemented this?..
L.W.C. Nirosh. Colombo, Sri Lanka.
Personally I'm more curious about software product lines.
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Hi All, I got a chance to participate (here in NC\Charlotte) to a discussion on the above topic yesterday mainly driven by Tom and Mary.. and Lean is what Toyota use too, and some leading software companies already looking into this concept.. It is likely to override Agile.. Anyone who has already implemented this?..
L.W.C. Nirosh. Colombo, Sri Lanka.
Nirosh wrote:
It is likely to override Agile..
Lean is a type of Agile, just as eXtreme Programming is a type of Agile.
Nirosh wrote:
Anyone who has already implemented this?..
No. On the grounds that Tom and Mary contradticted themselves in their book, so I'm looking for independent verification. In one part they said not to follow what other industries do becuase the analogies don't fit. Then they said to follow what Toyota did in the car manufacturing industry because of some list of analogies. It was a couple of years ago since I read the book so I don't recall the details, just that they shot themselves in the foot. -- modified at 2:47 Friday 11th May, 2007 I just found something on my blog that I wrote about their book. At the time I must have been more convinced of their ideas than I am now. Even the contradition I mentioned above seems to have a qualifier that gives it merit. Here's the synopsis that I wrote[^]
Upcoming events: * Glasgow: SQL Server 2005 - XML and XML Query Plans, Mock Objects, SQL Server Reporting Services... Never write for other people. Write for yourself, because you have a passion for it. -- Marc Clifton My website
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I'm sorry if it sounded like I'm implying that you are not using common sense. I did not mean that. :) What I meant was that you should use common sense rather than the current buzzwords. Whenever a new methodology comes around, most of it is old ideas with new names. It has just been formalized and ready to create book sales.
-- Fun for the whole family - except grandma and grandpa
Joergen Sigvardsson wrote:
ready to create book sales
:-D ...and talks at conferences.
Best wishes, Hans
[CodeProject Forum Guidelines] [How To Ask A Question] [My Articles]
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Nirosh wrote:
Anyone who has already implemented this?
Been doin' it for years. Take a class written by some other developer, cut out about half the code, fix the bugs in the remaining code, and check it back in. Lean. Also, if you care about comments, Mean. But that's really old hat. Wanna know what's really kewl? :suss: Anorexic Software Development. It's like "lean", but better. You start out with a broken program, and just keep removing bits 'till it works. However (and this is the real good bit), you never write new code. Also, you never accept that it's "good enough" - in fact, the ASD mantra is, "it's never good enough, it's never small enough". Other important rules of ASD:
- You're never done for the day. How can you bear to sleep, with that massive program just sitting there, all bloated and grotesque...
- You never build in DEBUG. Symbols and checking code doubling the size? You must be insane! You sloppy beast.
- You never complement another developers work. If he'd actually done a good job, there'd be nothing to complement. Anyway, shouldn't you be busy removing code? Stop jawing and get to it!
So yeah, i'm giving discounts on in-house training for ASD - limited time only. So order already, you sloppy beasts... :rolleyes:
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i hope you are feeling sleepy for people not calling you by the same.
--BarnaKol on abusive words
Shog9 wrote:
Anorexic Software Development
:-D Awesome! I nearly choked on my coffee.
Best wishes, Hans
[CodeProject Forum Guidelines] [How To Ask A Question] [My Articles]
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Hi All, I got a chance to participate (here in NC\Charlotte) to a discussion on the above topic yesterday mainly driven by Tom and Mary.. and Lean is what Toyota use too, and some leading software companies already looking into this concept.. It is likely to override Agile.. Anyone who has already implemented this?..
L.W.C. Nirosh. Colombo, Sri Lanka.
Like Agile and XP, there are parts of LSD that make a lot of sense. Does anyone know of any real software projects that have used LSD? Any articles about them on the web?
Best wishes, Hans
[CodeProject Forum Guidelines] [How To Ask A Question] [My Articles]
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Because whatever you're smoking, those links are, well, seeming nothing to do with any software development paradigm. That last one qualifies as lean though. There's not a single comment in hundreds of pages of source code. Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smith -
Like Agile and XP, there are parts of LSD that make a lot of sense. Does anyone know of any real software projects that have used LSD? Any articles about them on the web?
Best wishes, Hans
[CodeProject Forum Guidelines] [How To Ask A Question] [My Articles]
Hans Dietrich wrote:
Does anyone know of any real software projects that have used LSD?
Free BSD? That was written at Berkely wasn't it? That's where they used LSD a lot.
Upcoming events: * Glasgow: SQL Server 2005 - XML and XML Query Plans, Mock Objects, SQL Server Reporting Services... Never write for other people. Write for yourself, because you have a passion for it. -- Marc Clifton My website
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I don't understand your post. There's no such thing as "Lean Software." As mentioned in the original post, Lean is a set of manufacturing practices emphasizing reduction of waste and just-in-time production. For example, one of this month's featured articles entitled "Is a featureless product in your future?" exemplifies Lean design. It describes the benefit and importance of waiting until a specification is obtained from the customer, and only once the customer's needs are fully understood, before creating anything.
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
"Lean" would be the absense of arbitrary / contrived / artifical design or implementation paradigms developed by PhDs for the sole purpose of generating consulting fees or book sales.
well, actually, Lean is a business practice that has been around a while. The defense has already had Lean mandates, so for me it is just easier to get Management to listen if I call it Lean than if I call it Agile. Beyond a few business buzz-words, a good deal of it is common sense, just a rigid methodology for attempting to recognize common sense. After all, you have to include "Sales and Marketing" in the list of people who have to understand it. ;) http://www.defenselink.mil/transformation/articles/2004-11/ta111904e.html[^]
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
El Corazon wrote:
a rigid methodology for attempting to recognize common sense
In this business? Oh, that'll never sell... :-D
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
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Nirosh wrote:
Anyone who has already implemented this?
Been doin' it for years. Take a class written by some other developer, cut out about half the code, fix the bugs in the remaining code, and check it back in. Lean. Also, if you care about comments, Mean. But that's really old hat. Wanna know what's really kewl? :suss: Anorexic Software Development. It's like "lean", but better. You start out with a broken program, and just keep removing bits 'till it works. However (and this is the real good bit), you never write new code. Also, you never accept that it's "good enough" - in fact, the ASD mantra is, "it's never good enough, it's never small enough". Other important rules of ASD:
- You're never done for the day. How can you bear to sleep, with that massive program just sitting there, all bloated and grotesque...
- You never build in DEBUG. Symbols and checking code doubling the size? You must be insane! You sloppy beast.
- You never complement another developers work. If he'd actually done a good job, there'd be nothing to complement. Anyway, shouldn't you be busy removing code? Stop jawing and get to it!
So yeah, i'm giving discounts on in-house training for ASD - limited time only. So order already, you sloppy beasts... :rolleyes:
----
i hope you are feeling sleepy for people not calling you by the same.
--BarnaKol on abusive words
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Hi All, I got a chance to participate (here in NC\Charlotte) to a discussion on the above topic yesterday mainly driven by Tom and Mary.. and Lean is what Toyota use too, and some leading software companies already looking into this concept.. It is likely to override Agile.. Anyone who has already implemented this?..
L.W.C. Nirosh. Colombo, Sri Lanka.
I don't have a clue what LEAN is but.... I think a lot of people that are successful in this business are for different reasons. Some are because of the bugs and trash they leave behind in the code. Remember loops of NOPs (see ASM time waster not used for timing)? This way they get to go back and charge again for fixing the code. Some are for good reasons like taking the time to find out what the customer wants, what he actually needs, talking to everyone that is involved with input or output, documenting the current process, and how the proposed changes will effect things down stream and up stream. Things like a Signed Scope of Work are critical to getting the job done. Without it you get project creep and a customer that keeps wanting to change things and not pay for the changes, because "That's what I meant I wanted." How some people make a living without it is beyond me. Could someone actually explain what Agile, Lean and the other types are for those of use that don't know? Or links to sites that explain it from a programming point of view?
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Hi All, I got a chance to participate (here in NC\Charlotte) to a discussion on the above topic yesterday mainly driven by Tom and Mary.. and Lean is what Toyota use too, and some leading software companies already looking into this concept.. It is likely to override Agile.. Anyone who has already implemented this?..
L.W.C. Nirosh. Colombo, Sri Lanka.
Lean Software, lean manufacturing, lean anything is yet another recycled business process, like the quality assurance programs of the past. They are promoted by self-proclaimed guru's ("black belts" in this case) like a really bad business disease. Every 5 years or so, some empty-head consultant comes up with a "program" to sell like Elmer Gantry (re: the film), and businesses get duped into spending valuable resources to reinvent something that isn't broken or should be eliminated entirely anyway. Apparently the "management" is either incompetent and ineffective, or just too naive to acknowledge "Lean" anything is just the next bad business disease to hit their industry. Ignore it, and these consultants won't be able to con you. :doh:
David
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
"Lean" would be the absense of arbitrary / contrived / artifical design or implementation paradigms developed by PhDs for the sole purpose of generating consulting fees or book sales.
well, actually, Lean is a business practice that has been around a while. The defense has already had Lean mandates, so for me it is just easier to get Management to listen if I call it Lean than if I call it Agile. Beyond a few business buzz-words, a good deal of it is common sense, just a rigid methodology for attempting to recognize common sense. After all, you have to include "Sales and Marketing" in the list of people who have to understand it. ;) http://www.defenselink.mil/transformation/articles/2004-11/ta111904e.html[^]
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
El Corazon wrote:
for me it is just easier to get Management to listen if I call it Lean than if I call it Agile.
I tend to use words completely out of context, for this. Name one idiot wannabe with a brain full of buzzwords (and precious little else) who wouldn't respond favourably to suggestions of using "polymorphic staffing control interfaces" or "dual core, multi-tasking teams". I've used both of those impropmtu in meetings, largely to shut people up who were talking similar bullshit (but meaning it!) -- and they got great responses, even though no-one (including me) had a clue what they were supposed to mean.
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Lean Software, lean manufacturing, lean anything is yet another recycled business process, like the quality assurance programs of the past. They are promoted by self-proclaimed guru's ("black belts" in this case) like a really bad business disease. Every 5 years or so, some empty-head consultant comes up with a "program" to sell like Elmer Gantry (re: the film), and businesses get duped into spending valuable resources to reinvent something that isn't broken or should be eliminated entirely anyway. Apparently the "management" is either incompetent and ineffective, or just too naive to acknowledge "Lean" anything is just the next bad business disease to hit their industry. Ignore it, and these consultants won't be able to con you. :doh:
David