Time to revert back to XP.
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LOL - the post before this one was called 'Vista istallation' and I thought 'that was quick'.... Vista is OK, but I still use XP as my main software. I am setting up dual boot and using Vista mostly to test for Vista compatibility.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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After using Vista for a while I have decided to go back to XP. I miss the pretty blue theme and well designed interface that I know so well. Oh and the rock solid drivers and great resource conservation. Perhaps I will go back to Vista when service pack one comes out. I am having numerouse problems with Vista, its just unacceptable. How has your Vista experience been for all you Vista users out here?
█▒▒▒▒▒██▒█▒██ █▒█████▒▒▒▒▒█ █▒██████▒█▒██ █▒█████▒▒▒▒▒█ █▒▒▒▒▒██▒█▒██
Captain See Sharp wrote:
How has your Vista experience been for all you Vista users out here?
Applications should be independent of the operating system. Our Plain English development system, for example, and any applications developed with it, look and behave exactly the same on both XP and Vista. And our general-purpose pagebase application (developed earlier) hasn't changed since Windows 95. Microsoft should not be deciding what kind of new stuff we need and telling us when and how to change; the operating system should be transparent to the end user. ---
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Captain See Sharp wrote:
How has your Vista experience been for all you Vista users out here?
Applications should be independent of the operating system. Our Plain English development system, for example, and any applications developed with it, look and behave exactly the same on both XP and Vista. And our general-purpose pagebase application (developed earlier) hasn't changed since Windows 95. Microsoft should not be deciding what kind of new stuff we need and telling us when and how to change; the operating system should be transparent to the end user. ---
*NOTE* This is NOT against you or anything, just thinking out loud. It'd be fun to see a real-life, commercialmaybe) application developed in Plain English. What would be even _more_ fun, is if someone made an extension for it to support WCF, WPF, etc. .... "transform the listbox by 31.415926 units to the right, set alpha-transparence to 42%, rotate it on X and Y axises by 2.71828 degrees. Then, for every item in the listbox, invoke the SaveData method of the http://sometime.net/blahblah.asmx webservice, passing it the name and id of the items casted to CSomeDataClass" *ahem* yeah.
:badger:
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Captain See Sharp wrote:
Oh and firefox jitters up and down real quick constantly
That's standard behaviour. ;)
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milkDavid Wulff wrote:
That's standard behaviour.
:doh: In that case my Firefox is broken cause it's never done that..
Cheers, Patrick
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After using Vista for a while I have decided to go back to XP. I miss the pretty blue theme and well designed interface that I know so well. Oh and the rock solid drivers and great resource conservation. Perhaps I will go back to Vista when service pack one comes out. I am having numerouse problems with Vista, its just unacceptable. How has your Vista experience been for all you Vista users out here?
█▒▒▒▒▒██▒█▒██ █▒█████▒▒▒▒▒█ █▒██████▒█▒██ █▒█████▒▒▒▒▒█ █▒▒▒▒▒██▒█▒██
I'd like to try Vista, but i can't get it to install on my desktop. It seems the nForce drivers are still too buggy (RAID drivers). There is an x86 beta driver that is supposed to work, but no x64 one. I was able to install it on my old laptop, but there are no drivers for the radeon 7500 so i ended up putting XP Pro back on it.
...cmk Save the whales - collect the whole set
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After using Vista for a while I have decided to go back to XP. I miss the pretty blue theme and well designed interface that I know so well. Oh and the rock solid drivers and great resource conservation. Perhaps I will go back to Vista when service pack one comes out. I am having numerouse problems with Vista, its just unacceptable. How has your Vista experience been for all you Vista users out here?
█▒▒▒▒▒██▒█▒██ █▒█████▒▒▒▒▒█ █▒██████▒█▒██ █▒█████▒▒▒▒▒█ █▒▒▒▒▒██▒█▒██
I'm seriously considering following you. I am just not sure how XP would handle my Core2 Duo would like XP. I had a lot of problems moving my file from my previous notebook to this one and I don't really see what its bought me in advanced features. Let us know how you progress in your efforts.
Steven S. Ashley
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After using Vista for a while I have decided to go back to XP. I miss the pretty blue theme and well designed interface that I know so well. Oh and the rock solid drivers and great resource conservation. Perhaps I will go back to Vista when service pack one comes out. I am having numerouse problems with Vista, its just unacceptable. How has your Vista experience been for all you Vista users out here?
█▒▒▒▒▒██▒█▒██ █▒█████▒▒▒▒▒█ █▒██████▒█▒██ █▒█████▒▒▒▒▒█ █▒▒▒▒▒██▒█▒██
Already blue screened (actually it's a black then blue then power cycle) a few times randomly and while testing "The Ultimate Toolkit". Explorer went "boom" quite a few times but it recycles itself and all is well? Programs are slower and get even worse with aero turned on. Applications that use GDI+ extensively have a horrible lagging effect when resized. Since our software will need to work/install on boxes with UAC enabled, I've been testing software with UAC enabled and nothing loads or works as expected. Some of the standard stuff(manifest files) appears to help but there have been many false positives because of virtualization. (Anyone here who has no problems with Vista probably has UAC turned off) Some programming techniques that worked on previous OS's do not work as well, or at all. A good example is "The Ultimate Toolkit" as it has numerous refresh problems that did not exist on previous OS's. Looking at the source code, they are using what appear to be standard techniques that we would have thought "tried and true" but Microsoft had to muck it all up for the programmer. I'm so sick of change for the sake of change. I ain't got time to keep relearning how to tie my shoes.
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I'd like to try Vista, but i can't get it to install on my desktop. It seems the nForce drivers are still too buggy (RAID drivers). There is an x86 beta driver that is supposed to work, but no x64 one. I was able to install it on my old laptop, but there are no drivers for the radeon 7500 so i ended up putting XP Pro back on it.
...cmk Save the whales - collect the whole set
cmk wrote:
I'd like to try Vista, but i can't get it to install on my desktop. It seems the nForce drivers are still too buggy (RAID drivers). There is an x86 beta driver that is supposed to work, but no x64 one.
I installed Vista 64-bit in a RAID0 array, which uses the controller integrated in the nForce4 chipset (the motherboard is ASUS A8N-SLI Premium). It works just fine, and Vista used its own drivers without any problem.
If you truly believe you need to pick a mobile phone that "says something" about your personality, don't bother. You don't have a personality. A mental illness, maybe - but not a personality. - Charlie Brooker My Blog - My Photos - ScrewTurn Wiki
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LOL - the post before this one was called 'Vista istallation' and I thought 'that was quick'.... Vista is OK, but I still use XP as my main software. I am setting up dual boot and using Vista mostly to test for Vista compatibility.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Just curious - why set up dual boot instead of using Vista in a VM?
Best wishes, Hans
[CodeProject Forum Guidelines] [How To Ask A Question] [My Articles]
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Already blue screened (actually it's a black then blue then power cycle) a few times randomly and while testing "The Ultimate Toolkit". Explorer went "boom" quite a few times but it recycles itself and all is well? Programs are slower and get even worse with aero turned on. Applications that use GDI+ extensively have a horrible lagging effect when resized. Since our software will need to work/install on boxes with UAC enabled, I've been testing software with UAC enabled and nothing loads or works as expected. Some of the standard stuff(manifest files) appears to help but there have been many false positives because of virtualization. (Anyone here who has no problems with Vista probably has UAC turned off) Some programming techniques that worked on previous OS's do not work as well, or at all. A good example is "The Ultimate Toolkit" as it has numerous refresh problems that did not exist on previous OS's. Looking at the source code, they are using what appear to be standard techniques that we would have thought "tried and true" but Microsoft had to muck it all up for the programmer. I'm so sick of change for the sake of change. I ain't got time to keep relearning how to tie my shoes.
bob16972 wrote:
Programs are slower and get even worse with aero turned on.
Programs are just a little slower (because of the new features in the kernel, for example), and Aero increases performance. Just try to move a window: when Aero is turned on, the movements are smoother than without Aero. Moreover, Aero works with the GPU, so this reduces the load to the CPU even in 2D.
bob16972 wrote:
Since our software will need to work/install on boxes with UAC enabled, I've been testing software with UAC enabled and nothing loads or works as expected. Some of the standard stuff(manifest files) appears to help but there have been many false positives because of virtualization.
Probably your software used to require admin permissions even on XP, maybe? Anyway, installers always display an elevation prompt, so it's fine.
bob16972 wrote:
(Anyone here who has no problems with Vista probably has UAC turned off)
I don't have "problems" (quite a generic word) and I have UAC turned on.
bob16972 wrote:
I ain't got time to keep relearning how to tie my shoes.
Yes, I can see what you mean. The problem is that if you don't have time to keep up with new things, you'll probably lose your job or something. If Microsoft really stopped to modify things, we'd still have Windows 1.0.
If you truly believe you need to pick a mobile phone that "says something" about your personality, don't bother. You don't have a personality. A mental illness, maybe - but not a personality. - Charlie Brooker My Blog - My Photos - ScrewTurn Wiki
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Just curious - why set up dual boot instead of using Vista in a VM?
Best wishes, Hans
[CodeProject Forum Guidelines] [How To Ask A Question] [My Articles]
Well, I dont know about Christian Graus' reasons, but I would prefer dual booting to acoid potential problems with Vista running in a VM. Plus, if one dislikes VPC, VMWare did not support Vista until the latest version(well, not completely anyway). Plus VMWare isnt free, though I doubt thats much of an issue.
:badger:
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It has been great for me, no problems at all. On the other hand a friend has had all sorts of problems with it. I'm a software guy so I mess with a lot of software, and Vista has handled it graciously. My friend is a hardware geek and Vista seems to have an allergic reaction when he turns his machine on. Then again... he always had problems with XP too. The only issue I can think of with Vista is that I cannot print in duplex from within Word 2007 on Vista. It works from other apps, just not Word. It is a driver issue, and catches me out once or twice a week. Hardly a show-stopper. I could never go back to XP for one reason alone: In Vista I can hit the start button on my keyboard and type what I want to do and it does it. It is the killer feature of Vista IMO, and I cannot go back from that.
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milkDavid Wulff wrote:
In Vista I can hit the start button on my keyboard and type what I want to do and it does it. It is the killer feature of Vista IMO, and I cannot go back from that.
On my Windows 2000 box at work, I can hit Win+SPACE and do the same thing - I use Launchy[^]. But the only reason I installed Launchy at work was because I'd used QuickSilver[^] and Spotlight on my iBook. It *is* a killer feature - but there are non-Vista alternatives...thankfully, 'cause I don't think we'll be using Vista at work in the next five years :rolleyes:
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bob16972 wrote:
Programs are slower and get even worse with aero turned on.
Programs are just a little slower (because of the new features in the kernel, for example), and Aero increases performance. Just try to move a window: when Aero is turned on, the movements are smoother than without Aero. Moreover, Aero works with the GPU, so this reduces the load to the CPU even in 2D.
bob16972 wrote:
Since our software will need to work/install on boxes with UAC enabled, I've been testing software with UAC enabled and nothing loads or works as expected. Some of the standard stuff(manifest files) appears to help but there have been many false positives because of virtualization.
Probably your software used to require admin permissions even on XP, maybe? Anyway, installers always display an elevation prompt, so it's fine.
bob16972 wrote:
(Anyone here who has no problems with Vista probably has UAC turned off)
I don't have "problems" (quite a generic word) and I have UAC turned on.
bob16972 wrote:
I ain't got time to keep relearning how to tie my shoes.
Yes, I can see what you mean. The problem is that if you don't have time to keep up with new things, you'll probably lose your job or something. If Microsoft really stopped to modify things, we'd still have Windows 1.0.
If you truly believe you need to pick a mobile phone that "says something" about your personality, don't bother. You don't have a personality. A mental illness, maybe - but not a personality. - Charlie Brooker My Blog - My Photos - ScrewTurn Wiki
Dario Solera wrote:
If Microsoft really stopped to modify things, we'd still have Windows 1.0.
But there's a difference between things changing because they're getting significantly better and change for change's sake. For everything's that's breaking in Vista, are we getting something that's worth the hassle?
I enjoy occasionally wandering around randomly, and often find that when I do so, I get to where I wanted to be [^]. Awasu 2.3 [^]: A free RSS/Atom feed reader with support for Code Project. 50% discount on the paid editions for CP members!
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Dario Solera wrote:
If Microsoft really stopped to modify things, we'd still have Windows 1.0.
But there's a difference between things changing because they're getting significantly better and change for change's sake. For everything's that's breaking in Vista, are we getting something that's worth the hassle?
I enjoy occasionally wandering around randomly, and often find that when I do so, I get to where I wanted to be [^]. Awasu 2.3 [^]: A free RSS/Atom feed reader with support for Code Project. 50% discount on the paid editions for CP members!
Taka Muraoka wrote:
For everything's that's breaking in Vista, are we getting something that's worth the hassle?
I think so. There are many improvements.
If you truly believe you need to pick a mobile phone that "says something" about your personality, don't bother. You don't have a personality. A mental illness, maybe - but not a personality. - Charlie Brooker My Blog - My Photos - ScrewTurn Wiki
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Taka Muraoka wrote:
For everything's that's breaking in Vista, are we getting something that's worth the hassle?
I think so. There are many improvements.
If you truly believe you need to pick a mobile phone that "says something" about your personality, don't bother. You don't have a personality. A mental illness, maybe - but not a personality. - Charlie Brooker My Blog - My Photos - ScrewTurn Wiki
Dario Solera wrote:
I think so. There are many improvements.
Maybe. The difference between 1.0 and 3.1 and then XP are obviously siginificant and worth the headaches but while I've only had a bit of a play with Vista, there doesn't seem to be anything there that makes it worth my while transferring everything over and have half my apps not work properly (or at all). Maybe later when all the devs catch up and everything works but right now, I've got other things I need to be butting heads with :rolleyes: I've got everything in VM's now so it'd be much easier than it would've been otherwise but to be honest, I'll probably keep them all on XP anyway.
I enjoy occasionally wandering around randomly, and often find that when I do so, I get to where I wanted to be [^]. Awasu 2.3 [^]: A free RSS/Atom feed reader with support for Code Project. 50% discount on the paid editions for CP members!
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It has been great for me, no problems at all. On the other hand a friend has had all sorts of problems with it. I'm a software guy so I mess with a lot of software, and Vista has handled it graciously. My friend is a hardware geek and Vista seems to have an allergic reaction when he turns his machine on. Then again... he always had problems with XP too. The only issue I can think of with Vista is that I cannot print in duplex from within Word 2007 on Vista. It works from other apps, just not Word. It is a driver issue, and catches me out once or twice a week. Hardly a show-stopper. I could never go back to XP for one reason alone: In Vista I can hit the start button on my keyboard and type what I want to do and it does it. It is the killer feature of Vista IMO, and I cannot go back from that.
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milkDavid Wulff wrote:
In Vista I can hit the start button on my keyboard and type what I want to do and it does it
Heh, I can do that in XP, although not the Start button but Start+R ;P I just wrote a simple command-line program which I can use to define aliases so I just type
run aliasinto the Run box and it goes. Of course it could be expanded more but it works well for a program that took 5 minutes to write and debug. -
Just curious - why set up dual boot instead of using Vista in a VM?
Best wishes, Hans
[CodeProject Forum Guidelines] [How To Ask A Question] [My Articles]
The various VM solutions don't offer an emulated 3D-accelerated graphics controller. Without 3D acceleration (specifically DirectX 9.0-compatible with Shader Model 2.0 and a bunch of video RAM) the Aero Glass interface doesn't work. This could be a problem if you're trying to do something 'cool' with Glass. You also don't get window thumbnails when hovering over the taskbar, and you don't get Flip3D.
Stability. What an interesting concept. -- Chris Maunder
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bob16972 wrote:
Programs are slower and get even worse with aero turned on.
Programs are just a little slower (because of the new features in the kernel, for example), and Aero increases performance. Just try to move a window: when Aero is turned on, the movements are smoother than without Aero. Moreover, Aero works with the GPU, so this reduces the load to the CPU even in 2D.
bob16972 wrote:
Since our software will need to work/install on boxes with UAC enabled, I've been testing software with UAC enabled and nothing loads or works as expected. Some of the standard stuff(manifest files) appears to help but there have been many false positives because of virtualization.
Probably your software used to require admin permissions even on XP, maybe? Anyway, installers always display an elevation prompt, so it's fine.
bob16972 wrote:
(Anyone here who has no problems with Vista probably has UAC turned off)
I don't have "problems" (quite a generic word) and I have UAC turned on.
bob16972 wrote:
I ain't got time to keep relearning how to tie my shoes.
Yes, I can see what you mean. The problem is that if you don't have time to keep up with new things, you'll probably lose your job or something. If Microsoft really stopped to modify things, we'd still have Windows 1.0.
If you truly believe you need to pick a mobile phone that "says something" about your personality, don't bother. You don't have a personality. A mental illness, maybe - but not a personality. - Charlie Brooker My Blog - My Photos - ScrewTurn Wiki
Dario Solera wrote:
Just try to move a window: when Aero is turned on, the movements are smoother than without Aero.
Just try to resize a window: when Aero is turned on, the movements are clunkier than without Aero.
Dario Solera wrote:
Aero works with the GPU, so this reduces the load to the CPU even in 2D
This begs the question, then why is Aero slower during a resize/repaint. If you think Vista draws GDI or GDI+ graphics faster than on XP or 2000, then you have not done a thorough analysis yet.
Dario Solera wrote:
Probably your software used to require admin permissions even on XP, maybe? Anyway, installers always display an elevation prompt, so it's fine.
Per Machine Installations need administrative rights. Sorry I can't get around that. For programs, only the administrative configuration tools needed admin rights. The app was setup to run as "user". Administrative tools would "silent fail" on Vista with UAC enabled. The administrative tools would ask for an administrative REG_SAM and expect if the user only had "user" credentials, it could tell them they needed administrative rights to write to HKLM. Not so with UAC and virtualization. Manifest files to the rescue? Not quite since running the application once the first time expects to be able to register itself, it's COM junk, etc... The administrator would run the app once to "register" all the built in registration stuff but since the manifest now is set to "AsInvoker" it doesn't work unless the user goes to the executable, right clicks on it and chooses "run as administrator" since the MSI shortcuts don't have this option in the context menu. Pretty silly.
Dario Solera wrote:
I don't have "problems" (quite a generic word) and I have UAC turned on.
Problems meaning, "Do this", "Are you sure you want to do this? This requires administrative rights", "Yes, do that", "This will be run with administrative rights, are you positively sure you want to do this?", "Yes!!!", 5 seconds into MSI installation, a blinking item appears in the taskbar but no window on the desktop, click on the little blinking item, window appears, "some component a needs administrative rights, do you want to give it rights?", "Yes, it's a custom action that is part of the frickin' MSI I just told you to run", repeat next blinking it
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Dario Solera wrote:
Just try to move a window: when Aero is turned on, the movements are smoother than without Aero.
Just try to resize a window: when Aero is turned on, the movements are clunkier than without Aero.
Dario Solera wrote:
Aero works with the GPU, so this reduces the load to the CPU even in 2D
This begs the question, then why is Aero slower during a resize/repaint. If you think Vista draws GDI or GDI+ graphics faster than on XP or 2000, then you have not done a thorough analysis yet.
Dario Solera wrote:
Probably your software used to require admin permissions even on XP, maybe? Anyway, installers always display an elevation prompt, so it's fine.
Per Machine Installations need administrative rights. Sorry I can't get around that. For programs, only the administrative configuration tools needed admin rights. The app was setup to run as "user". Administrative tools would "silent fail" on Vista with UAC enabled. The administrative tools would ask for an administrative REG_SAM and expect if the user only had "user" credentials, it could tell them they needed administrative rights to write to HKLM. Not so with UAC and virtualization. Manifest files to the rescue? Not quite since running the application once the first time expects to be able to register itself, it's COM junk, etc... The administrator would run the app once to "register" all the built in registration stuff but since the manifest now is set to "AsInvoker" it doesn't work unless the user goes to the executable, right clicks on it and chooses "run as administrator" since the MSI shortcuts don't have this option in the context menu. Pretty silly.
Dario Solera wrote:
I don't have "problems" (quite a generic word) and I have UAC turned on.
Problems meaning, "Do this", "Are you sure you want to do this? This requires administrative rights", "Yes, do that", "This will be run with administrative rights, are you positively sure you want to do this?", "Yes!!!", 5 seconds into MSI installation, a blinking item appears in the taskbar but no window on the desktop, click on the little blinking item, window appears, "some component a needs administrative rights, do you want to give it rights?", "Yes, it's a custom action that is part of the frickin' MSI I just told you to run", repeat next blinking it
bob16972 wrote:
Just try to resize a window: when Aero is turned on, the movements are clunkier than without Aero.
That's true. I didn't notice. :-O
bob16972 wrote:
Did you enable your forbidden "administrator" account and run as it, or are you running as a user part of the administrators group? Do you test your software as a standard user? With the original UAC security policy settings as they were after a fresh Vista install since this is the likely configuration of a user of your software?
I run as administrator, but I always developed client software to work with non-admin accounts even on XP, and tested for it. Of course, installers need to run as admin. Anyway, I have to say that I develop mainly custom ASP.NET applications... which resolve all of these problems. :)
bob16972 wrote:
.NET is already on version 3.0 and I've hardly touched it. Why? Because I wouldn't doubt it'll be deprecated soon. They struggled to name it .NET 3.0 if I remember correctly as if they were ready to can it and develop the newer technolgies under a different name. Change is good when in small doses and it fulfills a need and eliminates a void.
.NET did that, in my opinion. Again, if everyone thought like that, we'd still live in caverns because just anything is deprecated soon or later. Anyway, you should be used to the fact that every new version of Windows causes some compatibility problems, and I think it's inevitable.
bob16972 wrote:
Mr. Solera, if you think corporate software will just have to be rewritten and that's that, you've grossly underestimated the time and effort involved.
I didn't say that. I just said that if you want (or need) to support Vista, you have to learn new things. I completely agree that in the corporate environment applications don't (and don't need to) change very often, but again, if you have to support Vista clients, prepare to learn how it works, and repeat the process for the next Windows, and so on. Or switch to another platform, which is probably the same. I think Aero should be disabled in companies if it creates problems with applications. It's just useless eyecandy (although I really like it). I don't know what software are you working with, but I barely had problems with any of the software I use and I think Vista is a good OS, worth upgrading bo
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The various VM solutions don't offer an emulated 3D-accelerated graphics controller. Without 3D acceleration (specifically DirectX 9.0-compatible with Shader Model 2.0 and a bunch of video RAM) the Aero Glass interface doesn't work. This could be a problem if you're trying to do something 'cool' with Glass. You also don't get window thumbnails when hovering over the taskbar, and you don't get Flip3D.
Stability. What an interesting concept. -- Chris Maunder
Mike Dimmick wrote:
The various VM solutions don't offer an emulated 3D-accelerated graphics controller.
hmmm... I thought VMware 6 did support that (can't find a link right now)? Anyway, there is a hack for VMware 5 here.
Best wishes, Hans
[CodeProject Forum Guidelines] [How To Ask A Question] [My Articles]