India and Pakistan
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Over the last couple of days things have been getting worse. Pakistan has tested 3 nuclear capable missles at India. MSNBC says that if this war happened 12 million would die instantly and up as high as 100 million total afterwards. How do people feel about this latest escalation. Does everyone still think nothing will come of it? Mark A
Here is a news extract from Times of India for my city Calcutts: Kolkata: India does not have an anti-ballistic system (ABS) to counter a Pakistani missile threat, defence and nuclear experts state. In layman’s language, it means that if Pakistan targets any of its missiles against this country, there is no system to destroy them. Citing the nuclear-capable Ghauri, defence analyst Bharat Karnad said on Monday that after its launch, it will zoom towards its Indian target at over seven miles per second. He said once detected on the radar, the Indian military will have barely a minute to respond to the threat. “This makes it absolutely impossible to destroy it,” he added. Incidentally, Pakistan too does not have an anti-missile system. Karnad said if the missile’s flying time from its launch pad to India was about 30 minutes, there would have been some chance of stopping its flight. But it is capable of striking places far away from Pakistan like Kolkata and Chennai within a few minutes after its launch. He said India had acquired a few units of S-300 anti-aircraft and missile system from Russia. He, however, doubted their effectiveness because they can be used only for small distances around Delhi. According to him, the only effective anti-ballistic unit is the Israeli Arrow-2 system, which India has been trying to acquire. However, the deal is being blocked by the US since they have collaborated with the Israelis in making the system. The Arrow-2 anti-missile system can detect missiles as far as 500 km away and intercept them a distance of 50 to 90 km. “The Patriot, used by the US in the Gulf War, was a failure as it could not prevent Iraqi Scuds from landing close to Tel Aviv,” said. The Arrow-2 system was not ready during the Gulf war.
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Konstantin Vasserman wrote: What are the relations between India and Russia these days? Pretty good I guess! I am not sure of Russia-Pak relations though! Nish
Regards, Nish Native CPian. Born and brought up on CP. With the CP blood in him.
Nish - Native CPian wrote: Pretty good I guess! I am not sure of Russia-Pak relations though! Putin can help you guys take over Kashmir, because they helped fight the soviets in Afghanistan, although I don't see why you guys want it so badly. :confused: After a poor performance in London in 1899, Steinitz went insane and died a year later on August 12, 1900 at Wards Island, N.Y.
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Here is a news extract from Times of India for my city Calcutts: Kolkata: India does not have an anti-ballistic system (ABS) to counter a Pakistani missile threat, defence and nuclear experts state. In layman’s language, it means that if Pakistan targets any of its missiles against this country, there is no system to destroy them. Citing the nuclear-capable Ghauri, defence analyst Bharat Karnad said on Monday that after its launch, it will zoom towards its Indian target at over seven miles per second. He said once detected on the radar, the Indian military will have barely a minute to respond to the threat. “This makes it absolutely impossible to destroy it,” he added. Incidentally, Pakistan too does not have an anti-missile system. Karnad said if the missile’s flying time from its launch pad to India was about 30 minutes, there would have been some chance of stopping its flight. But it is capable of striking places far away from Pakistan like Kolkata and Chennai within a few minutes after its launch. He said India had acquired a few units of S-300 anti-aircraft and missile system from Russia. He, however, doubted their effectiveness because they can be used only for small distances around Delhi. According to him, the only effective anti-ballistic unit is the Israeli Arrow-2 system, which India has been trying to acquire. However, the deal is being blocked by the US since they have collaborated with the Israelis in making the system. The Arrow-2 anti-missile system can detect missiles as far as 500 km away and intercept them a distance of 50 to 90 km. “The Patriot, used by the US in the Gulf War, was a failure as it could not prevent Iraqi Scuds from landing close to Tel Aviv,” said. The Arrow-2 system was not ready during the Gulf war.
This is absolutely the scariest part of the whole scenario. India and Pakistan have been at war over Kashmir before, involved in active fighting. However, the existence of a missile that can get to its target so rapidly means that there is a frightenly small amount of time for either side to respond to a launch. I understand there were several instances during the cold war between the US and USSR, where the early warning system detected a missile launch, but was mistaken. Possibly the only thing that stopped a counterstrike was the amount of time available to verify the launch. In the case of India and Pakistan, there is no time to verify. If one side detects a launch and has a policy of counterattack, then it has to push the button almost immediately. I fear that if Pakistan conduct another 'test' after hostilities have commenced, India will not see it as a test and launch.
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If India or Pak attack each other, there will be war, for sure. So this is an alternate suggestion I have. The US and UK can get their men into Kashmir and try and hunt dowen and attack the damned terrorist groups there. Just fry their asses. Since both India and Pakistan are against terrorism, both countries won't have a problem with this. Now I am wondering how I can get this idea across to Bush. It may not be possible :-( Nish
Regards, Nish Native CPian. Born and brought up on CP. With the CP blood in him.
I wish it was that simple Nish. One of the problems is that the Indian government believes (or is simply suggesting) that this is state sponsored terrorism. Pakistan has made similar accusations in the past I believe. As with most things like this, there is a whole lot more going on behind the scenes than the ordinary folk are aware of. Such is the way with politics. As for US and UK peacekeepers (they wont go in with any other mandate), I suggest that the governments of those two countries wouldnt want to touch this with a forty kilometer pole. Both countries run on public opinion, and only really ever do anything if there is something they have to lose. There is also a lot to lose going in. Can you imagine the public outcry if something happened to their soldiers? Especially if it fell into the nuclear category.
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Nish - Native CPian wrote: Pretty good I guess! I am not sure of Russia-Pak relations though! Putin can help you guys take over Kashmir, because they helped fight the soviets in Afghanistan, although I don't see why you guys want it so badly. :confused: After a poor performance in London in 1899, Steinitz went insane and died a year later on August 12, 1900 at Wards Island, N.Y.
I think its a geographically stategic buffer. Or the High ground. :-) Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
More about me :-)
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Here is a news extract from Times of India for my city Calcutts: Kolkata: India does not have an anti-ballistic system (ABS) to counter a Pakistani missile threat, defence and nuclear experts state. In layman’s language, it means that if Pakistan targets any of its missiles against this country, there is no system to destroy them. Citing the nuclear-capable Ghauri, defence analyst Bharat Karnad said on Monday that after its launch, it will zoom towards its Indian target at over seven miles per second. He said once detected on the radar, the Indian military will have barely a minute to respond to the threat. “This makes it absolutely impossible to destroy it,” he added. Incidentally, Pakistan too does not have an anti-missile system. Karnad said if the missile’s flying time from its launch pad to India was about 30 minutes, there would have been some chance of stopping its flight. But it is capable of striking places far away from Pakistan like Kolkata and Chennai within a few minutes after its launch. He said India had acquired a few units of S-300 anti-aircraft and missile system from Russia. He, however, doubted their effectiveness because they can be used only for small distances around Delhi. According to him, the only effective anti-ballistic unit is the Israeli Arrow-2 system, which India has been trying to acquire. However, the deal is being blocked by the US since they have collaborated with the Israelis in making the system. The Arrow-2 anti-missile system can detect missiles as far as 500 km away and intercept them a distance of 50 to 90 km. “The Patriot, used by the US in the Gulf War, was a failure as it could not prevent Iraqi Scuds from landing close to Tel Aviv,” said. The Arrow-2 system was not ready during the Gulf war.
bakhtawar wrote: The Arrow-2 anti-missile system can detect missiles as far as 500 km away and intercept them a distance of 50 to 90 km. From some publications here (Israel) it appears India bought the detecting radar, which is pure Israeli. Also the detection range is twice as large. bakhtawar wrote: “The Patriot, used by the US in the Gulf War, was a failure as it could not prevent Iraqi Scuds from landing close to Tel Aviv,” As some one which got a scud 200 meters from his house I can testify for this :) The patriots only made more damage when missing scuds.
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Rama Krishna wrote: There is bound to be a war sometime or other But why? We cannot allow a stupid terrorist minority to bring two countries into war! Nish
Regards, Nish Native CPian. Born and brought up on CP. With the CP blood in him.
Do you really think this is about terrorism , as an outsider it looks like the ancient clash between Hindus and Muslims , terrorism seems to be just this years excuse ? Ain't nobody ever told you : There ain't no sanity clause .Groucho Marks
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If India or Pak attack each other, there will be war, for sure. So this is an alternate suggestion I have. The US and UK can get their men into Kashmir and try and hunt dowen and attack the damned terrorist groups there. Just fry their asses. Since both India and Pakistan are against terrorism, both countries won't have a problem with this. Now I am wondering how I can get this idea across to Bush. It may not be possible :-( Nish
Regards, Nish Native CPian. Born and brought up on CP. With the CP blood in him.
I'm not sure how against terrorism Pakistan really is. Whilst the government may talk the talk, the people on the ground are too easily corruptable. The fact that so many terrorists escaped from Afghanistan is proof of that. Michael :-)
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I wish it was that simple Nish. One of the problems is that the Indian government believes (or is simply suggesting) that this is state sponsored terrorism. Pakistan has made similar accusations in the past I believe. As with most things like this, there is a whole lot more going on behind the scenes than the ordinary folk are aware of. Such is the way with politics. As for US and UK peacekeepers (they wont go in with any other mandate), I suggest that the governments of those two countries wouldnt want to touch this with a forty kilometer pole. Both countries run on public opinion, and only really ever do anything if there is something they have to lose. There is also a lot to lose going in. Can you imagine the public outcry if something happened to their soldiers? Especially if it fell into the nuclear category.
Mr Morden wrote: As for US and UK peacekeepers (they wont go in with any other mandate), I suggest that the governments of those two countries wouldnt want to touch this with a forty kilometer pole. Correct. Peace talks are one thing, but military involment is another. I think everyone else is better off out of this one. Simon I need your clothes, your boots, and your copy of VS.NET. Sonork ID 100.10024
Recent bug fixes to Walton's pr0n organiser v1.2b - fixed a bug where the FAT table would be wiped for no reason - fixed a bug where the user's computer would explode, killing everyone within a 5 foot radius
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If India or Pak attack each other, there will be war, for sure. So this is an alternate suggestion I have. The US and UK can get their men into Kashmir and try and hunt dowen and attack the damned terrorist groups there. Just fry their asses. Since both India and Pakistan are against terrorism, both countries won't have a problem with this. Now I am wondering how I can get this idea across to Bush. It may not be possible :-( Nish
Regards, Nish Native CPian. Born and brought up on CP. With the CP blood in him.
Nish - Native CPian wrote: Since both India and Pakistan are against terrorism, both countries won't have a problem with this The problem is that India say that Pakistan supports terrorism :( Best regards, Alexandru Savescu
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Nish - Native CPian wrote: Pretty good I guess! I am not sure of Russia-Pak relations though! Putin can help you guys take over Kashmir, because they helped fight the soviets in Afghanistan, although I don't see why you guys want it so badly. :confused: After a poor performance in London in 1899, Steinitz went insane and died a year later on August 12, 1900 at Wards Island, N.Y.
It's the only state in India that has snow and ice :-) Maybe that's why India wants to retain it
Regards, Nish Native CPian. Born and brought up on CP. With the CP blood in him.
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I wish it was that simple Nish. One of the problems is that the Indian government believes (or is simply suggesting) that this is state sponsored terrorism. Pakistan has made similar accusations in the past I believe. As with most things like this, there is a whole lot more going on behind the scenes than the ordinary folk are aware of. Such is the way with politics. As for US and UK peacekeepers (they wont go in with any other mandate), I suggest that the governments of those two countries wouldnt want to touch this with a forty kilometer pole. Both countries run on public opinion, and only really ever do anything if there is something they have to lose. There is also a lot to lose going in. Can you imagine the public outcry if something happened to their soldiers? Especially if it fell into the nuclear category.
Mr Morden wrote: One of the problems is that the Indian government believes (or is simply suggesting) that this is state sponsored terrorism I donno about that, but there are terrorists there and they should all be killed. Both India and Pak should work together to get rid of all those cruel man-killers. Nish
Regards, Nish Native CPian. Born and brought up on CP. With the CP blood in him.
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Nish - Native CPian wrote: Since both India and Pakistan are against terrorism, both countries won't have a problem with this The problem is that India say that Pakistan supports terrorism :( Best regards, Alexandru Savescu
****Alexpro wrote: The problem is that India say that Pakistan supports terrorism Pakistan should disprove it by joining hands with India to wipe out terrorism. Together they can be a force, a very powerful force. Nish
Regards, Nish Native CPian. Born and brought up on CP. With the CP blood in him.
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I'm not sure how against terrorism Pakistan really is. Whilst the government may talk the talk, the people on the ground are too easily corruptable. The fact that so many terrorists escaped from Afghanistan is proof of that. Michael :-)
Michael P Butler wrote: I'm not sure how against terrorism Pakistan really is. Whilst the government may talk the talk, the people on the ground are too easily corruptable. The fact that so many terrorists escaped from Afghanistan is proof of that. Problem is that the lower middle class is not educated and are easily swayed by fanatic thoughts :-( I've seen the reverse here in India too. Nish
Regards, Nish Native CPian. Born and brought up on CP. With the CP blood in him.
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Do you really think this is about terrorism , as an outsider it looks like the ancient clash between Hindus and Muslims , terrorism seems to be just this years excuse ? Ain't nobody ever told you : There ain't no sanity clause .Groucho Marks
Andrew Torrance wrote: Do you really think this is about terrorism , as an outsider it looks like the ancient clash between Hindus and Muslims , terrorism seems to be just this years excuse ? To an outsider it might look like a crazy religious clash. It's a lot more than that unfortunately :-( Nish
Regards, Nish Native CPian. Born and brought up on CP. With the CP blood in him.
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If India or Pak attack each other, there will be war, for sure. So this is an alternate suggestion I have. The US and UK can get their men into Kashmir and try and hunt dowen and attack the damned terrorist groups there. Just fry their asses. Since both India and Pakistan are against terrorism, both countries won't have a problem with this. Now I am wondering how I can get this idea across to Bush. It may not be possible :-( Nish
Regards, Nish Native CPian. Born and brought up on CP. With the CP blood in him.
Nish - Native CPian wrote: If India or Pak attack each other, there will be war, for sure. And I think that even after a war the kashmir region will still be a conflict zone. Mauricio Ritter - Brazil Sonorking now: 100.13560 Trank :jig: I've gone sending to outer space, to find another race :jig:
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Nish - Native CPian wrote: If India or Pak attack each other, there will be war, for sure. And I think that even after a war the kashmir region will still be a conflict zone. Mauricio Ritter - Brazil Sonorking now: 100.13560 Trank :jig: I've gone sending to outer space, to find another race :jig:
Mauricio Ritter wrote: And I think that even after a war the kashmir region will still be a conflict zone. There won't be much of Kashmir left after a war :-) Nish
Regards, Nish Native CPian. Born and brought up on CP. With the CP blood in him.
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bakhtawar wrote: The Arrow-2 anti-missile system can detect missiles as far as 500 km away and intercept them a distance of 50 to 90 km. From some publications here (Israel) it appears India bought the detecting radar, which is pure Israeli. Also the detection range is twice as large. bakhtawar wrote: “The Patriot, used by the US in the Gulf War, was a failure as it could not prevent Iraqi Scuds from landing close to Tel Aviv,” As some one which got a scud 200 meters from his house I can testify for this :) The patriots only made more damage when missing scuds.
Yup, looks like those things sucked... Throughout the Gulf War there were continuing military and news reports of the Patriot's success in intercepting and destroying Iraqi Scuds. The Army initially said the Patriot achieved an 80 percent success rate in Saudi Arabia and 50 percent in Israel. Those claims later were scaled back to 70 percent and 40 percent. However, not long after the war's end, analysts began to question the Patriot's performance. The Army and Patriot's manufacturer, Raytheon Company, vigorously defended the system and said it was a Gulf War success story. After a 10-month investigation in 1992 by the House Government Operations Subcommittee on Legislation and National Security, the subcommittee concluded there was little evidence to prove the Patriot hit more than a few Scud missiles launched by Iraq. Another 1992 investigation done by the General Accounting Office found that only 9 percent of the Patriot-Scud engagements "are supported by the strongest evidence that an engagement resulted in a warhead kill." (The GAO defined "the strongest evidence" as instances in which Scud debris or radar data indicated that a Scud was destroyed or disabled after a Patriot detonated near it.) Except in 9 percent of the cases, the GAO report said the Army could prove only that "the Patriots came close to the Scuds, not that they destroyed them." Both reports, as well as studies by analysts (in particular MIT scientists George N. Lewis and Theodore A. Postol) concluded that Gulf War television pictures showing Patriots chasing Scuds were misleading. The television images didn't fully reflect that a number of the Patriots were just wounding Scuds or pushing them off course; big chunks of both missiles then fell to the ground. In Israel, the amount of damages and casualties increased after the Patriots were deployed there. Tim Smith I know what you're thinking punk, you're thinking did he spell check this document? Well, to tell you the truth I kinda forgot myself in all this excitement. But being this here's CodeProject, the most powerful forums in the world and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question, Do I feel lucky? Well do ya punk?
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Over the last couple of days things have been getting worse. Pakistan has tested 3 nuclear capable missles at India. MSNBC says that if this war happened 12 million would die instantly and up as high as 100 million total afterwards. How do people feel about this latest escalation. Does everyone still think nothing will come of it? Mark A
Mark A wrote: How do people feel about this latest escalation. Does everyone still think nothing will come of it? Hi Mark, Let me first tell you I am a Pakistani. (This may get my opinions the title of a biased). What you people are listening to and reading is just propaganda. India is trying its best (and has been 100% successful) to divert the attention from massacre of Gujarat (photos (be careful), articles). Besides, elections are near in India. BJP (the ruling party to which Advani, Vajpayee, Bal Thackeray belongs) can win the elections only if they can raise the nationalistic and patirotic feelings of Indians. And one way to do it is talk of kicking Pakistan's ass (war with Pakistan). So far, they have been successful in every way. They have the media, they have the people who knows how to project an issue into an international one. They are hopping into Bush' terrorism bandwagon and may do the same thing Israel is doing with Palestians... all in the name of terrorism. On the other hand, Pakistanis are trying their level best to cool down the situation by offering talks offer (which India rejects everytime) and to put international observers (which India doesnt want either). Missile tests were just to show the muscles and to calm the people who are fear that India will ruin Pakistan (which in my opinion India will do though India will get its share of loss in case nuclear war breaks out). War is not an option for Pakistan. Pakistan is much much weaker economically. And war will suck every penny from Pakistan's pocket. The best thing to resolve this situation is to make Kashmir independent. India is not willing to do it, and Pakistan will not let India take it. Its all politics. If India and Pakistan, then who will buy weapons from Russia, EK, USA, China and so on. Maybe its an international conspiracy. Lets wait and watch. Ammar There is a difference in knowing the path and walking the path.
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Mark A wrote: How do people feel about this latest escalation. Does everyone still think nothing will come of it? Hi Mark, Let me first tell you I am a Pakistani. (This may get my opinions the title of a biased). What you people are listening to and reading is just propaganda. India is trying its best (and has been 100% successful) to divert the attention from massacre of Gujarat (photos (be careful), articles). Besides, elections are near in India. BJP (the ruling party to which Advani, Vajpayee, Bal Thackeray belongs) can win the elections only if they can raise the nationalistic and patirotic feelings of Indians. And one way to do it is talk of kicking Pakistan's ass (war with Pakistan). So far, they have been successful in every way. They have the media, they have the people who knows how to project an issue into an international one. They are hopping into Bush' terrorism bandwagon and may do the same thing Israel is doing with Palestians... all in the name of terrorism. On the other hand, Pakistanis are trying their level best to cool down the situation by offering talks offer (which India rejects everytime) and to put international observers (which India doesnt want either). Missile tests were just to show the muscles and to calm the people who are fear that India will ruin Pakistan (which in my opinion India will do though India will get its share of loss in case nuclear war breaks out). War is not an option for Pakistan. Pakistan is much much weaker economically. And war will suck every penny from Pakistan's pocket. The best thing to resolve this situation is to make Kashmir independent. India is not willing to do it, and Pakistan will not let India take it. Its all politics. If India and Pakistan, then who will buy weapons from Russia, EK, USA, China and so on. Maybe its an international conspiracy. Lets wait and watch. Ammar There is a difference in knowing the path and walking the path.
Thanks for the info, Ammar. Ammar wrote: Lets wait and watch. Good advice... "What is it?" and he said, "I don't know. Let's kill it." - Ed Gadziemski