Annoying Phrases - RANT
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What would Chuck Norris say? :laugh:
Best wishes, Hans
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El Corazon's post is quite enlightening. No, I don't have a problem with the word being in the dictionary nor with language being a living thing. I just think the word sounds stupid.
Patrick Sears wrote:
I just think the word sounds stupid.
well... I have the same issue with garbanzo beans... :) but that isn't going anywhere. ;) colloquial expressions have less to do with sounding good, and more to do with sounding different. My ex used to give me hell over the use of reentrant. She swore up and down that it was not a word. But the computer industry has had an affect on language. Where did digital come from? Things change because a word is "coined" for a specific purpose. IN the case of reentrant it was used to describe parallel a processes problem of being in the same code at the same time from two different parallel operations (dangerous if your code is not reentrant). However, though I never pointed it out to her (she would never accept being wrong and my punishment would just be worse), reentrant is a word and has been for longer than computers have been around, computer programmers just took over one minor usage of the word. :) In the particular case of irregardless, the show generally attributed to originating the word (which I find many references to, but have never actually found the name of the show) was humorous entertainment. Which means the show could have coined the word only as a joke (since I don't actually know the show, and I wasn't around to hear it, I don't know for sure). In which case the joke is on us for adopting it. But that is the point of language. Usage breeds usage, its pretty much that simple. If you make a word tomorrow, doesn't matter what for (even some spoonerisms are gaining usage enough to be promoted to word status) then two things may happen: 1) people will ignore it, especially if it is not memorable, or doesn't stand out enough as different or 2) people will remember it and start using it. It really doesn't matter the contact. Now that I have heard slag off, I may not use it yet, but it becomes part of my understanding. The more often I hear it, or the greater contact with the new language form, then the more likely I am to use it in the future. If I were to start using it, people around me would be influenced slowly, and then the people around them, etc. Even a place like code-project promotes linqual shifts. Contact between people generate a blending of language drifts. Where USA has drifted there is the risk of influence to British English and others, and vice versa. The greater the contact the more the language will reblend together. However lingual shifts will continue, the great
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Patrick Sears wrote:
I just think the word sounds stupid.
well... I have the same issue with garbanzo beans... :) but that isn't going anywhere. ;) colloquial expressions have less to do with sounding good, and more to do with sounding different. My ex used to give me hell over the use of reentrant. She swore up and down that it was not a word. But the computer industry has had an affect on language. Where did digital come from? Things change because a word is "coined" for a specific purpose. IN the case of reentrant it was used to describe parallel a processes problem of being in the same code at the same time from two different parallel operations (dangerous if your code is not reentrant). However, though I never pointed it out to her (she would never accept being wrong and my punishment would just be worse), reentrant is a word and has been for longer than computers have been around, computer programmers just took over one minor usage of the word. :) In the particular case of irregardless, the show generally attributed to originating the word (which I find many references to, but have never actually found the name of the show) was humorous entertainment. Which means the show could have coined the word only as a joke (since I don't actually know the show, and I wasn't around to hear it, I don't know for sure). In which case the joke is on us for adopting it. But that is the point of language. Usage breeds usage, its pretty much that simple. If you make a word tomorrow, doesn't matter what for (even some spoonerisms are gaining usage enough to be promoted to word status) then two things may happen: 1) people will ignore it, especially if it is not memorable, or doesn't stand out enough as different or 2) people will remember it and start using it. It really doesn't matter the contact. Now that I have heard slag off, I may not use it yet, but it becomes part of my understanding. The more often I hear it, or the greater contact with the new language form, then the more likely I am to use it in the future. If I were to start using it, people around me would be influenced slowly, and then the people around them, etc. Even a place like code-project promotes linqual shifts. Contact between people generate a blending of language drifts. Where USA has drifted there is the risk of influence to British English and others, and vice versa. The greater the contact the more the language will reblend together. However lingual shifts will continue, the great
El Corazon wrote:
I have the same issue with garbanzo beans
You like chickpeas better? :wtf:
I would teach the world that science is not about truth, but is about trying to get closer to the truth. - Kathy Sykes
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El Corazon wrote:
Without force of contact, language drifts
I think the internet and television and so on will counteract the drift. I noticed that teenagers in Sweden tended to have an American accent, because of watching US-produced soapies on TV. Sweden largely prohibits dubbing of foreign TV or Cinema content, except for that aimed at young children (under-12, maybe.)
normanS wrote:
I think the internet and television and so on will counteract the drift.
perhaps, but there are many countries viewing this as a threat. At one time the US required dubbing of British and Australian films. It no longer is, but there are more than a few people that would like to bring that particular rule back. But that gets into other issues. The closer the contact the more separation drift will be minimized, but new words and changes will continue ad infinitum, or at least as long as the language is around. But drift will continue in areas with dual language influence where languages blend together. Those influences move out also. As countries not normally English speaking add English to their language influences, they in turn influence the English language. Language is used to describe the world we live in. As the world changes, so does the language that describes it. That is ... normal.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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El Corazon wrote:
I have the same issue with garbanzo beans
You like chickpeas better? :wtf:
I would teach the world that science is not about truth, but is about trying to get closer to the truth. - Kathy Sykes
Andy Brummer wrote:
You like chickpeas better?
nope... ;P such is language, such is life. :)
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Chuck Norris doesn't need a dictionary.
Paul Brower wrote:
Chuck Norris doesn't need a dictionary.
sure he does... he just doesn't use it as a dictionary, he tears an unabridged dictionary in half each morning because Chuck Norris is more powerful than the written word. (or all of them as the case may be)
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Well, this thread probably belongs in the Soapbox. But I'll throw one in. I hate the word "irregardless." THAT IS NOT A WORD. You mean to say "regardless." Bah!
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Andy Brummer wrote:
You like chickpeas better?
nope... ;P such is language, such is life. :)
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
So what do you call them? Chunky Hummus?
I would teach the world that science is not about truth, but is about trying to get closer to the truth. - Kathy Sykes
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CleaKO wrote:
This one I actually agree with but I believe you are too far north to hear this often.
I thought it occurred more often up North. Essentially anywhere with a large German immigrant population. The German words are the same for borrow and lend, at least that's what I remember from my college German class.
I would teach the world that science is not about truth, but is about trying to get closer to the truth. - Kathy Sykes
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If that's true, that would explain why it is common here. My husband occasionally uses it. His great grandparents were born in Germany.
__________________ Bob is my homeboy.
Yeah, it's pretty common where I grew up just north of Milwaukee. They also call water fountains bubblers, which I still can't figure out.
I would teach the world that science is not about truth, but is about trying to get closer to the truth. - Kathy Sykes
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Yeah, it's pretty common where I grew up just north of Milwaukee. They also call water fountains bubblers, which I still can't figure out.
I would teach the world that science is not about truth, but is about trying to get closer to the truth. - Kathy Sykes
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Paul Watson wrote:
all have irregardless down as a word
It has a history, coined first as a US colloquialism, but met with unusually more condemnation because of its sudden widespread use through radio broadcasting (entertainment) which sped the use of an otherwise regional expression.
_The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition._ Usage Note: Irregardless is a word that many mistakenly believe to be correct usage in formal style, when in fact it is used chiefly in nonstandard speech or casual writing. Coined in the United States in the early 20th century, it has met with a blizzard of condemnation for being an improper yoking of irrespective and regardless and for the logical absurdity of combining the negative ir- prefix and -less suffix in a single term. Although one might reasonably argue that it is no different from words with redundant affixes like debone and unravel, it has been considered a blunder for decades and will probably continue to be so._Random House Unabridged Dictionary_ — Usage note Irregardless is considered nonstandard because of the two negative elements ir- and -less. It was probably formed on the analogy of such words as irrespective, irrelevant, and irreparable. Those who use it, including on occasion educated speakers, may do so from a desire to add emphasis. Irregardless first appeared in the early 20th century and was perhaps popularized by its use in a comic radio program of the 1930s.Many people forget that the English language is a "living" language, it is always changing and drifting. The greater the separation, or influence from outside languages, the more it changes. You get regional differences even within the USA which likes to think it is uniform, put a Boston visitor in New Orleans and let them get around. They will squeek by, but there will be quite a few misunderstandings throughout the process, primarily because they speak regionally different versions. Many words are the same, but informal speech within the region forces a drift in usage. It is more noticeable in English speaking countries compared to each other USA->UK USA->Australia, etc. Since its origin was in a time when the USA was deliberately snubbing British spoken English, the sudden influx of this particular word met with an equal volley of teasing from overseas, which was shadowed by embarassed USA English speakers for providing a target. But all sides tend to forgetEl Corazon wrote:
Many people forget that the English language is a "living" language, it is always changing and drifting.
Thank you for posting this before I had to today. :)
-- You have to explain to them [VB coders] what you mean by "typed". their first response is likely to be something like, "Of course my code is typed. Do you think i magically project it onto the screen with the power of my mind?" --- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
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Paul Watson wrote:
all have irregardless down as a word
It has a history, coined first as a US colloquialism, but met with unusually more condemnation because of its sudden widespread use through radio broadcasting (entertainment) which sped the use of an otherwise regional expression.
_The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition._ Usage Note: Irregardless is a word that many mistakenly believe to be correct usage in formal style, when in fact it is used chiefly in nonstandard speech or casual writing. Coined in the United States in the early 20th century, it has met with a blizzard of condemnation for being an improper yoking of irrespective and regardless and for the logical absurdity of combining the negative ir- prefix and -less suffix in a single term. Although one might reasonably argue that it is no different from words with redundant affixes like debone and unravel, it has been considered a blunder for decades and will probably continue to be so._Random House Unabridged Dictionary_ — Usage note Irregardless is considered nonstandard because of the two negative elements ir- and -less. It was probably formed on the analogy of such words as irrespective, irrelevant, and irreparable. Those who use it, including on occasion educated speakers, may do so from a desire to add emphasis. Irregardless first appeared in the early 20th century and was perhaps popularized by its use in a comic radio program of the 1930s.Many people forget that the English language is a "living" language, it is always changing and drifting. The greater the separation, or influence from outside languages, the more it changes. You get regional differences even within the USA which likes to think it is uniform, put a Boston visitor in New Orleans and let them get around. They will squeek by, but there will be quite a few misunderstandings throughout the process, primarily because they speak regionally different versions. Many words are the same, but informal speech within the region forces a drift in usage. It is more noticeable in English speaking countries compared to each other USA->UK USA->Australia, etc. Since its origin was in a time when the USA was deliberately snubbing British spoken English, the sudden influx of this particular word met with an equal volley of teasing from overseas, which was shadowed by embarassed USA English speakers for providing a target. But all sides tend to forget -
You know how certain phrases just make you cringe? Like back when I was dating, phrases like "just friends" and "can we talk" were usually red flags. Other phrases (usually encountered when trying out an online dating site) were: 1. "voluptuous" (aka. fat) 2. "pleasantly plump" (aka. Greenpeace shows up when you sunbathe) 3. "moderately liberal" (aka. a rabid follower of Stalin) 4. "social butterfly" (aka. heavy drinker with sociopathic tendencies) 5. "artistic" (aka. I'm special because I'm 25 and still fingerpaint on paper plates) 6. "open minded" (aka. dumber than a bag of hammers and accepting of anything you or anyone else tells me - also means militant vegan or atheist and probably indicates excessive body hair). 7. "wants to be in a equal relationship" (aka. I want to be your equal, on the way to becoming your dictator and the despoiler and usurper of anything resembling your identity). Anyway, I've started noticing a similar reaction to other common phrases and because I'm cranky and in need of validation, I thought I'd throw them out to see if anyone else is annoyed by them. 1. eXtreme or Xtreme anything - You want extreme? Go soak yourself in gasoline and then jump in a volcano on live television. That's extreme. Anything short of that and you are probably just different, likely weird, and are exhibiting traits that will eventually/hopefully erase you from the gene pool. 2. enterprise or enterprise grade anything - yet another worthless group of words. This used to mean that an application could scale well and was flexible. Now it just means that the application has been obfuscated and abstracted to the point that it can no longer be maintained. 3. To the metal - This is supposed to mean that you dealt with something at a really low level. However, it always makes me think of worn out brake pads. "We went to the metal, so now we have no way of stopping. And thanks to our extreme, enterprise grade steering wheel, we can now hurtle off the cliff into oblivion faster than our competitors can point and laugh." 4. Metrics - yeah. These are handy, if you are using them. Otherwise you are probably just dumb for hanging on to them. Do you know how many cubic centimeters of fingernail clippings you generated last year? Who gives a crap? Also, if you are using arbitrary units (like "libraries of congress", "football field lengths", "interior surface areas of the Pope's hat" etc.), then you probably don't really need that information. 5. Database agnostic - This should mean that you don't care about
gantww wrote:
7. Passion/passionate - Yes. You are passionate about what you do. This is a keyword that warns me that you are a) too emotionally attached to your code because it is the only thing bringing meaning to your miserable, lonely existence b) usually wrong about everything and prideful to a fault and c) approaching your own inevitable burnout at the highest possible speed.
'Cause we all know that the best developers are the ones who are apathetic about what they do. ;-P If I wasn't passionate about software development, I wouldn't be involved with it. There are plenty of other meaningful things in my life, and I'm passionate about them too. :) I don't have room for anything in my life that I'm not passionate about (unless it's absolutely necessary), so software development would be cut out of my life if I wasn't passionate about it. Sure, I may have burnout from time to time - but it's a cost worth paying for being able to do something I love. The developers who are passionate about what they're doing are the ones that move the industry forward. If you aren't passionate about your work, software development is a poor choice for a career.
gantww wrote:
8. Top priority - just like everything else on the list. 9. Critical / Mission critical - aka. Pet project of a senior VP. Tell me I'm wrong.
Sounds about right! :laugh:
gantww wrote:
10. Distributed application - usually means "we're too cheap to get a decent machine to run this on, so we want you to split it up so that we can run it off of a couple of 486s in my mom's basement."
Some applications do better as a dynamic network of interconnected nodes, and some do better with a central server farm. It's when you shoehorn the one application type into the other's architecture, or implement the application sloppily, that you have problems.
--Justin Microsoft MVP, C#
C# / Web / VG.net / MyXaml expert currently looking for (telecommute) contract work![^]
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gantww wrote:
7. Passion/passionate - Yes. You are passionate about what you do. This is a keyword that warns me that you are a) too emotionally attached to your code because it is the only thing bringing meaning to your miserable, lonely existence b) usually wrong about everything and prideful to a fault and c) approaching your own inevitable burnout at the highest possible speed.
'Cause we all know that the best developers are the ones who are apathetic about what they do. ;-P If I wasn't passionate about software development, I wouldn't be involved with it. There are plenty of other meaningful things in my life, and I'm passionate about them too. :) I don't have room for anything in my life that I'm not passionate about (unless it's absolutely necessary), so software development would be cut out of my life if I wasn't passionate about it. Sure, I may have burnout from time to time - but it's a cost worth paying for being able to do something I love. The developers who are passionate about what they're doing are the ones that move the industry forward. If you aren't passionate about your work, software development is a poor choice for a career.
gantww wrote:
8. Top priority - just like everything else on the list. 9. Critical / Mission critical - aka. Pet project of a senior VP. Tell me I'm wrong.
Sounds about right! :laugh:
gantww wrote:
10. Distributed application - usually means "we're too cheap to get a decent machine to run this on, so we want you to split it up so that we can run it off of a couple of 486s in my mom's basement."
Some applications do better as a dynamic network of interconnected nodes, and some do better with a central server farm. It's when you shoehorn the one application type into the other's architecture, or implement the application sloppily, that you have problems.
--Justin Microsoft MVP, C#
C# / Web / VG.net / MyXaml expert currently looking for (telecommute) contract work![^]
I know. I'm actually talking about what the words end up meaning when they are said in a corporate environment. For instance, passion is a good thing, except when the suits say it. My experience is when they say it, it usually is more similar in meaning to words like "addiction". The difference is whether the behavior improves your life or damages it. Often corporate "passion" for development ends up destroying any real world "passion" for development. I guess it's just the whole corporate-speak that bothers me. Reminds me of 1984 too much.
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So what do you call them? Chunky Hummus?
I would teach the world that science is not about truth, but is about trying to get closer to the truth. - Kathy Sykes
nope, I live with the silliness of the word, and try not to giggle as the word is said. :)
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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CleaKO wrote:
This one I actually agree with but I believe you are too far north to hear this often.
I thought it occurred more often up North. Essentially anywhere with a large German immigrant population. The German words are the same for borrow and lend, at least that's what I remember from my college German class.
I would teach the world that science is not about truth, but is about trying to get closer to the truth. - Kathy Sykes
The germans (I am German by myself) have two or even more words like borrow and lend. However, most of us use the wrong one all the time because it would just sound weired to use the right one. I am curious and because I live in Canada now, I am wondering if my version of it is right: Borrow: For things you will consume or spend (like money, eggs, ...). So you just give back the same amount of the same thing. Lend: You give back exactly the same thing (e. g. the lawn mower, bike, ...). Thanks for clear this one up. Stephan
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The germans (I am German by myself) have two or even more words like borrow and lend. However, most of us use the wrong one all the time because it would just sound weired to use the right one. I am curious and because I live in Canada now, I am wondering if my version of it is right: Borrow: For things you will consume or spend (like money, eggs, ...). So you just give back the same amount of the same thing. Lend: You give back exactly the same thing (e. g. the lawn mower, bike, ...). Thanks for clear this one up. Stephan
You typically loan money, and borrow books. Someone lends you money and/or books. A: Mr. B, may I borrow your book? B: Yes, I'll lend it to you. A: May I also loan some money? B: Yes, I'll lend you some money too. I think I got it right. :~
-- Torn from tomorrow's headlines
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Chuck Norris says "Irregardless", regardless.
That is, if he says something before he kills you, regardless.
-- The Show That Watches Back
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El Corazon wrote:
Without force of contact, language drifts
I think the internet and television and so on will counteract the drift. I noticed that teenagers in Sweden tended to have an American accent, because of watching US-produced soapies on TV. Sweden largely prohibits dubbing of foreign TV or Cinema content, except for that aimed at young children (under-12, maybe.)
normanS wrote:
Sweden largely prohibits dubbing of foreign TV or Cinema content, except for that aimed at young children (under-12, maybe.)
I wouldn't say "prohibit". There are no laws against dubbing. It's just that nobody would ever watch it. Can you imagine how stupid dubbed movies sound and look?? Speech and lips totally out of sync. :shudder: Children's movies are typically available as both dubbed and untouched. Yes, I have an American accent. :-D
-- The Show That Watches Back