I Hate CSS
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I Hate CSS
Spoken like a typical noob! CSS is not your problem, cross browser compatibility is the issue here. :doh: Getting web pages to render consistently on all browsers is like trying to herd cats, they all have a different agenda. :sigh: Now that you have left the cloistered Windows C++ cocoon and ventured out into the "Wild West" mentality of the internet there are quite a few more bumps along the way. :~ Just wait until you start coding javascript, presuming you are serious about addressing the wider world of the internet, and you will find subtleties that make CSS rendering seem like child's play. :rolleyes:
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
FireFox and Opera appear to be pretty much in agreement about what the page should look like, but IE6 completely destroys the layout.
Did you report it to Micro$oft? :laugh:
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I haven't tried it with IE7 yet.
IE7 is M$ eating crow. :-D They tried to force others to go along with their view of the browser universe and other browsers started to blow their doors off! :rolleyes: They realized that the sheep weren't following blindly in that brave new world called the internet. :doh: Not unlike "Mission Accomplished!" :~ to much fanfare when they took on Netscape and won they couldn't just declare victory and assume that it will happen. :doh: There were competing browsers and they offered more of what a browser should do. :cool: They quite simply had to conform a little closer to where the competition was going or be left behind. :cool: If you really want to get serious about cross browser compatibility don't forget Netscape, AOL OpenRide, Maxthon, Avant, Konqueror and, err ... did I mention Safari, to name a few. :wtf:
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesJimmyRopes wrote:
CSS is not your problem, cross browser compatibility is the issue here.
No. CSS is the problem BECAUSE of cross-browser issues.
JimmyRopes wrote:
IE7 is M$ eating crow.
That really doesn't address the millions of idiot end-users that use IE6 because "it came on their machine".
JimmyRopes wrote:
If you really want to get serious about cross browser compatibility don't forget Netscape, AOL OpenRide, Maxthon, Avant, Konqueror and, err ... did I mention Safari, to name a few.
I think I'm going to only support Lynx.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
So have I, but I know worse things to deal with. CSS itself isn't bad at all. It's the different implementations of it that makes it a challenge.. Perhaps that is what you meant? :~
Joergen Sigvardsson wrote:
So have I, but I know worse things to deal with. CSS itself isn't bad at all. It's the different implementations of it that makes it a challenge.. Perhaps that is what you meant?
Yeah, pretty much all of the implementations suck. Netscape 6&7 -- WTF did they release browsers based on a beta rendering engine?!? Netscape 8 -- Well you can choose between IE and Firefox rendering... why are they still claiming to be a browser? FireFox -- Not really that bad, but I wouldn't say really that spectacular. Really the best thing, in my opinion, about firefox is firebug. IE7 -- Expanding box... :doh: Other than that pretty good IE6 -- Why are people still using this crap? IE5.5 -- Why am I forced to support this? Opera -- :sigh: Safari -- Damn hippies
Matt Newman
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I Hate CSS
Spoken like a typical noob! CSS is not your problem, cross browser compatibility is the issue here. :doh: Getting web pages to render consistently on all browsers is like trying to herd cats, they all have a different agenda. :sigh: Now that you have left the cloistered Windows C++ cocoon and ventured out into the "Wild West" mentality of the internet there are quite a few more bumps along the way. :~ Just wait until you start coding javascript, presuming you are serious about addressing the wider world of the internet, and you will find subtleties that make CSS rendering seem like child's play. :rolleyes:
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
FireFox and Opera appear to be pretty much in agreement about what the page should look like, but IE6 completely destroys the layout.
Did you report it to Micro$oft? :laugh:
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I haven't tried it with IE7 yet.
IE7 is M$ eating crow. :-D They tried to force others to go along with their view of the browser universe and other browsers started to blow their doors off! :rolleyes: They realized that the sheep weren't following blindly in that brave new world called the internet. :doh: Not unlike "Mission Accomplished!" :~ to much fanfare when they took on Netscape and won they couldn't just declare victory and assume that it will happen. :doh: There were competing browsers and they offered more of what a browser should do. :cool: They quite simply had to conform a little closer to where the competition was going or be left behind. :cool: If you really want to get serious about cross browser compatibility don't forget Netscape, AOL OpenRide, Maxthon, Avant, Konqueror and, err ... did I mention Safari, to name a few. :wtf:
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesJimmyRopes wrote:
cross browser compatibility is the issue here.
So much for standard...
Matt Newman
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Joergen Sigvardsson wrote:
So have I, but I know worse things to deal with. CSS itself isn't bad at all. It's the different implementations of it that makes it a challenge.. Perhaps that is what you meant?
Yeah, pretty much all of the implementations suck. Netscape 6&7 -- WTF did they release browsers based on a beta rendering engine?!? Netscape 8 -- Well you can choose between IE and Firefox rendering... why are they still claiming to be a browser? FireFox -- Not really that bad, but I wouldn't say really that spectacular. Really the best thing, in my opinion, about firefox is firebug. IE7 -- Expanding box... :doh: Other than that pretty good IE6 -- Why are people still using this crap? IE5.5 -- Why am I forced to support this? Opera -- :sigh: Safari -- Damn hippies
Matt Newman
Matt Newman wrote:
Yeah, pretty much all of the implementations suck. Netscape 6&7 -- WTF did they release browsers based on a beta rendering engine?!? Netscape 8 -- Well you can choose between IE and Firefox rendering... why are they still claiming to be a browser? FireFox -- Not really that bad, but I wouldn't say really that spectacular. Really the best thing, in my opinion, about firefox is firebug. IE7 -- Expanding box... Other than that pretty good IE6 -- Why are people still using this crap? IE5.5 -- Why am I forced to support this? Opera -- Safari -- Damn hippies
Those are browsers. :rolleyes: Say it again, browsers! :~ The problem is not CSS but cross browser compatibility. :doh: When you say you dislike CSS it is like saying "I hate Visual Studio" because I need to write OS specific code to operate on Win98 and WinXP if I want to take advantage of platform (like registry, device driver, memory model, etc.) specific features. :rolleyes:
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
Chris Maunder wrote:
Believe it or not, many of the stupdities you'll see in our currently layout are due to Netscape 4.
I believe it. That was a horrible browser even when it was released. Hasn't it been a while since it was a major browser though?
I would teach the world that science is not about truth, but is about trying to get closer to the truth. - Kathy Sykes
Number 40 in this list[^] of browser market share. Behind even people browsing on their PS3s. I presume this graph[^] is based on data with rather more decimal places than the two given in the table. IE 7.0 rapidly grew to 30% of the market but has only increased about 1.4% since February.
Stability. What an interesting concept. -- Chris Maunder
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JimmyRopes wrote:
CSS is not your problem, cross browser compatibility is the issue here.
No. CSS is the problem BECAUSE of cross-browser issues.
JimmyRopes wrote:
IE7 is M$ eating crow.
That really doesn't address the millions of idiot end-users that use IE6 because "it came on their machine".
JimmyRopes wrote:
If you really want to get serious about cross browser compatibility don't forget Netscape, AOL OpenRide, Maxthon, Avant, Konqueror and, err ... did I mention Safari, to name a few.
I think I'm going to only support Lynx.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
No. CSS is the problem BECAUSE of cross-browser issues.
You could always code formatting parameters on individual HTML statements (like font, etc.), but I wouldn't recommend it. :~
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
That really doesn't address the millions of idiot end-users that use IE6 because "it came on their machine".
Fact of life! :doh: Get over it. :laugh:
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I think I'm going to only support Lynx.
Lynx only support would certainly simplify things. :-D Now if I could only get my clients to agree. :rolleyes:
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
Matt Newman wrote:
Yeah, pretty much all of the implementations suck. Netscape 6&7 -- WTF did they release browsers based on a beta rendering engine?!? Netscape 8 -- Well you can choose between IE and Firefox rendering... why are they still claiming to be a browser? FireFox -- Not really that bad, but I wouldn't say really that spectacular. Really the best thing, in my opinion, about firefox is firebug. IE7 -- Expanding box... Other than that pretty good IE6 -- Why are people still using this crap? IE5.5 -- Why am I forced to support this? Opera -- Safari -- Damn hippies
Those are browsers. :rolleyes: Say it again, browsers! :~ The problem is not CSS but cross browser compatibility. :doh: When you say you dislike CSS it is like saying "I hate Visual Studio" because I need to write OS specific code to operate on Win98 and WinXP if I want to take advantage of platform (like registry, device driver, memory model, etc.) specific features. :rolleyes:
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesJimmyRopes wrote:
Those are browsers. Say it again, browsers!
Ok, so CSS isn't for browsers...
JimmyRopes wrote:
The problem is not CSS but cross browser compatibility.
So CSS isn't standard?
Matt Newman
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JimmyRopes wrote:
Those are browsers. Say it again, browsers!
Ok, so CSS isn't for browsers...
JimmyRopes wrote:
The problem is not CSS but cross browser compatibility.
So CSS isn't standard?
Matt Newman
Matt Newman wrote:
Ok, so CSS isn't for browsers...
Browsers render HTML based on CSS, on page styles, inline styles. It is the browsers interpretation of the styles that is the problem. :~ You could always revert to putting in line formatting in your HTML if you dislike CSS that much but that wouldn't address the cross browser compatibility problems and you would be making things a whole lot more difficult to maintain. :rolleyes:
Matt Newman wrote:
So CSS isn't standard?
Certainly not because the standards folks haven't been trying. :sigh: Browser implementation of CSS is not standard. :doh: Cascading Style Sheets, level 1 W3C Recommendation 17 Dec 1996, revised 11 Jan 1999[^] Cascading Style Sheets, level 2 revision 1 CSS 2.1 Specification[^] Cascading Style Sheets Current Work[^]
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
FireFox and Opera appear to be pretty much in agreement about what the page should look like, but IE6 completely destroys the layout. I haven't tried it with IE7 yet. Nothing for you guys to see, just complaining...
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001We gave up on IE6 a long time ago. For our asp.net apps we tell people up front before they buy it they must use IE7, FF or Opera. IE6 has an incredibly inefficient javascript engine that is many orders of magnitude slower than ie7, not to mention the css wierdness. No one has complained about this yet, probably because they have the option of a free browser if they must continue to use IE6.
"110%" - it's the new 70%
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We gave up on IE6 a long time ago. For our asp.net apps we tell people up front before they buy it they must use IE7, FF or Opera. IE6 has an incredibly inefficient javascript engine that is many orders of magnitude slower than ie7, not to mention the css wierdness. No one has complained about this yet, probably because they have the option of a free browser if they must continue to use IE6.
"110%" - it's the new 70%
Well, I have no choice for this particular website. I must support IE6. :(
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Well, I have no choice for this particular website. I must support IE6. :(
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Like I said, I was just complaining.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
We gave up on IE6 a long time ago. For our asp.net apps we tell people up front before they buy it they must use IE7, FF or Opera. IE6 has an incredibly inefficient javascript engine that is many orders of magnitude slower than ie7, not to mention the css wierdness. No one has complained about this yet, probably because they have the option of a free browser if they must continue to use IE6.
"110%" - it's the new 70%
Yeah, just think if Google, eBay, Yahoo and CP all required the latest browser. The net would mostly be updated in just a few weeks!
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: Popfly! Check this out! Latest Tech Blog Post: 15 Free utilites!
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Yeah, back just a little while ago, Opera was as bad as IE6 in messing things up. They seem to be better now as long as you have a standard doctype. One thing to check is that you are not entering Quirks mode, that can really mess up a page. You need to make sure to specify the doctype of a page and do not server it up as XML or IE6 blows it. Another is that Firefox and Opera use a different box mode than IE6 (calculations of the size of a box). In IE6 the padding is added to the size you specify for a box while the others consider the size to be before padding is added (this can really mess up if you use 100% as it is looked at as 100% + padding). Not sure if Opera is still doing it, but in the last version I checked, it put a margin or padding around the "Form" tag which of course Firefox and IE do not. That made some designs look hosed in Opera unless you set them to zero first. IE 7 does do a much better job at rendering (close to Opera and Firefox).
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: Popfly! Check this out! Latest Tech Blog Post: 15 Free utilites!
Rocky Moore wrote:
IE 7 does do a much better job at rendering (close to Opera and Firefox).
Rendering what, bugs? http://www.gtalbot.org/BrowserBugsSection/
