Best job in the world...except you have no life
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I went to an interview yesterday, a full day of meeting people, lunch with the VP, tour of the facility, etc. This was after two phone interviews, about 1.5 hours each. After the phone interviews I was excited to see the place and talk with the people and all through the day I saw some place that could be a very interesting environment to work in with great people. The day ended with an HR person who explained the benefits and compensation arrangement. Everything sounded great, then the ball was dropped. Everyone here works 48 hours a week she says. It wasn't, we have a lot to do so everyone puts in some extra time, it was 48 hours per week is mandatory and the minimum acceptable for a salaried employee. When I said I couldn't work 48 hour weeks she asked, in a stunned voice "Why not?". I explained that I have a family and outside activities, including pursueing a higher degree (which would add value to me as an employee) that I would like to continue enjoying. She sat there for a moment and I could see the confused look of "How can one have a life outside the company" on her face. I also explained to her the I am currently working at a position with similar duties making the same pay and only working 40 hours a week. There was disbelif on her face that such a place exsisted. The final meeting of the day was with my potential boss and he asked what I thought about the position. I said I thought it was a great opportunity and beleived I could add real value to the company, however, I can't work 48 hour weeks. Again the questions was "Why not?". I explained to him also about family and having an outside life. He asked about my activities and began calculating the hours it took up each week, then said "I think you have a conflict." So my life is a conflict of work. I was really disappointed as this was a great company but just don't understand how they can seemingly be so out of touch with reality. The company is my life attitude vanished a long time ago. Given equal duties, pay, communting time, etc. why would anyone chose to work longer hours? Am I missing something?
only two letters away from being an asset
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I went to an interview yesterday, a full day of meeting people, lunch with the VP, tour of the facility, etc. This was after two phone interviews, about 1.5 hours each. After the phone interviews I was excited to see the place and talk with the people and all through the day I saw some place that could be a very interesting environment to work in with great people. The day ended with an HR person who explained the benefits and compensation arrangement. Everything sounded great, then the ball was dropped. Everyone here works 48 hours a week she says. It wasn't, we have a lot to do so everyone puts in some extra time, it was 48 hours per week is mandatory and the minimum acceptable for a salaried employee. When I said I couldn't work 48 hour weeks she asked, in a stunned voice "Why not?". I explained that I have a family and outside activities, including pursueing a higher degree (which would add value to me as an employee) that I would like to continue enjoying. She sat there for a moment and I could see the confused look of "How can one have a life outside the company" on her face. I also explained to her the I am currently working at a position with similar duties making the same pay and only working 40 hours a week. There was disbelif on her face that such a place exsisted. The final meeting of the day was with my potential boss and he asked what I thought about the position. I said I thought it was a great opportunity and beleived I could add real value to the company, however, I can't work 48 hour weeks. Again the questions was "Why not?". I explained to him also about family and having an outside life. He asked about my activities and began calculating the hours it took up each week, then said "I think you have a conflict." So my life is a conflict of work. I was really disappointed as this was a great company but just don't understand how they can seemingly be so out of touch with reality. The company is my life attitude vanished a long time ago. Given equal duties, pay, communting time, etc. why would anyone chose to work longer hours? Am I missing something?
only two letters away from being an asset
Wow, that is insane. I'd never ever work 48 hours a week. Not for double my pay. Damn, I don't even have kids yet and I wouldn't consider it. Not to mention that you can't possible code that much. That's a 9.5 hour work day. Holy S batman, they are insane! Life isn't all about work.
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I went to an interview yesterday, a full day of meeting people, lunch with the VP, tour of the facility, etc. This was after two phone interviews, about 1.5 hours each. After the phone interviews I was excited to see the place and talk with the people and all through the day I saw some place that could be a very interesting environment to work in with great people. The day ended with an HR person who explained the benefits and compensation arrangement. Everything sounded great, then the ball was dropped. Everyone here works 48 hours a week she says. It wasn't, we have a lot to do so everyone puts in some extra time, it was 48 hours per week is mandatory and the minimum acceptable for a salaried employee. When I said I couldn't work 48 hour weeks she asked, in a stunned voice "Why not?". I explained that I have a family and outside activities, including pursueing a higher degree (which would add value to me as an employee) that I would like to continue enjoying. She sat there for a moment and I could see the confused look of "How can one have a life outside the company" on her face. I also explained to her the I am currently working at a position with similar duties making the same pay and only working 40 hours a week. There was disbelif on her face that such a place exsisted. The final meeting of the day was with my potential boss and he asked what I thought about the position. I said I thought it was a great opportunity and beleived I could add real value to the company, however, I can't work 48 hour weeks. Again the questions was "Why not?". I explained to him also about family and having an outside life. He asked about my activities and began calculating the hours it took up each week, then said "I think you have a conflict." So my life is a conflict of work. I was really disappointed as this was a great company but just don't understand how they can seemingly be so out of touch with reality. The company is my life attitude vanished a long time ago. Given equal duties, pay, communting time, etc. why would anyone chose to work longer hours? Am I missing something?
only two letters away from being an asset
Doesn't sound like a very family-friendly company.
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This exempt[^] business makes no sense, IMHO. I talked to an electrical engineer that works at a construction company - they actually need a written permit to work overtime because they are paid hourly; in fact most of them like to have a few extra hours a week and a few extra dollars in their pockets. However, I've never met a "non-exempt" software engineer :~
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40 hours is the absolute maximum I would be prepared to work full time in a given week, Ok there are the odd occasions which require working the odd evening or weekend, but that should be few and far between and should be rewarded with a day in lieu or some finacial recompense.
Mark Nischalke wrote:
Am I missing something?
No but it looks like that company is!
P Think of the environment; please don't print this message unless you really need to.
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Agreed. I'd say that was the point where he graduated from pointy haired boss to creepy employee stalker.
James L. Thomson wrote:
he graduated from pointy haired boss to creepy employee stalker.
:laugh: That's creepy, alright, when you think that he would look into a prospective employee's business outside of work...
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Interesting link. Definitely good ammo against the boss :-D
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Wow, that is insane. I'd never ever work 48 hours a week. Not for double my pay. Damn, I don't even have kids yet and I wouldn't consider it. Not to mention that you can't possible code that much. That's a 9.5 hour work day. Holy S batman, they are insane! Life isn't all about work.
ToddHileHoffer wrote:
Not to mention that you can't possible code that much. That's a 9.5 hour work day.
Yowza! What would i ever do with the other 8.5 hours?!
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Yes, but can you blame them for doing so if that's the only legal way they can hire programmers they want at the rate they can afford?
-- Nish on sketchy hiring practices
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I went to an interview yesterday, a full day of meeting people, lunch with the VP, tour of the facility, etc. This was after two phone interviews, about 1.5 hours each. After the phone interviews I was excited to see the place and talk with the people and all through the day I saw some place that could be a very interesting environment to work in with great people. The day ended with an HR person who explained the benefits and compensation arrangement. Everything sounded great, then the ball was dropped. Everyone here works 48 hours a week she says. It wasn't, we have a lot to do so everyone puts in some extra time, it was 48 hours per week is mandatory and the minimum acceptable for a salaried employee. When I said I couldn't work 48 hour weeks she asked, in a stunned voice "Why not?". I explained that I have a family and outside activities, including pursueing a higher degree (which would add value to me as an employee) that I would like to continue enjoying. She sat there for a moment and I could see the confused look of "How can one have a life outside the company" on her face. I also explained to her the I am currently working at a position with similar duties making the same pay and only working 40 hours a week. There was disbelif on her face that such a place exsisted. The final meeting of the day was with my potential boss and he asked what I thought about the position. I said I thought it was a great opportunity and beleived I could add real value to the company, however, I can't work 48 hour weeks. Again the questions was "Why not?". I explained to him also about family and having an outside life. He asked about my activities and began calculating the hours it took up each week, then said "I think you have a conflict." So my life is a conflict of work. I was really disappointed as this was a great company but just don't understand how they can seemingly be so out of touch with reality. The company is my life attitude vanished a long time ago. Given equal duties, pay, communting time, etc. why would anyone chose to work longer hours? Am I missing something?
only two letters away from being an asset
I used to work for a consulting company. They were sending us to clients, and clients were sometimes requesting us to work more time. When this happened (and it happened a lot on a project I worked), the company I was working for (this company name is Avanade, a joint venture between MS and Accenture, formerly Anderson Consulting) was charging the extra hours to the client, but we were never paid for overtime. I think this is pure robbery. Needless to say, I didn't not work for them for a long time and I stressed that reason for me leaving them.
----- Formerly MP(2) If atheism is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby. -- Unknown
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40 hours is the absolute maximum I would be prepared to work full time in a given week, Ok there are the odd occasions which require working the odd evening or weekend, but that should be few and far between and should be rewarded with a day in lieu or some finacial recompense.
Mark Nischalke wrote:
Am I missing something?
No but it looks like that company is!
P Think of the environment; please don't print this message unless you really need to.
norm .net wrote:
Ok there are the odd occasions which require working the odd evening or weekend, but that should be few and far between
Where I work we are expected only 40 hours, now some of us work from home on weekends or evenings because we love what we do and have deadlines looming but my PM has made it perfectly clear he doesnt not expect/require it.
"Okay, I give up: which is NOT a real programming language????" Michael Bergman
"Well yes, it is an Integer, but it's a metrosexual Integer. For all we know, under all that hair gel it could be a Boolean." Tom Welch
"Let's face it, the average computer user has the brain of a Spider Monkey." Bill Gates
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This exempt[^] business makes no sense, IMHO. I talked to an electrical engineer that works at a construction company - they actually need a written permit to work overtime because they are paid hourly; in fact most of them like to have a few extra hours a week and a few extra dollars in their pockets. However, I've never met a "non-exempt" software engineer :~
Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:
I've never met a "non-exempt" software engineer
I'm one! And not a contractor. My salary is based on a 38 hour week, then I get paid "time and a half" (1.5 * hourly salary) for hours I work beyond that. So, if I work 43 hours in a week, I get 38 hours pay (the basic salary) plus another 7.5 hours pay (1.5 * the 5 hours overtime I worked) on top. The company I work for doesn't take people on as "non-exempt" any more, though.
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I went to an interview yesterday, a full day of meeting people, lunch with the VP, tour of the facility, etc. This was after two phone interviews, about 1.5 hours each. After the phone interviews I was excited to see the place and talk with the people and all through the day I saw some place that could be a very interesting environment to work in with great people. The day ended with an HR person who explained the benefits and compensation arrangement. Everything sounded great, then the ball was dropped. Everyone here works 48 hours a week she says. It wasn't, we have a lot to do so everyone puts in some extra time, it was 48 hours per week is mandatory and the minimum acceptable for a salaried employee. When I said I couldn't work 48 hour weeks she asked, in a stunned voice "Why not?". I explained that I have a family and outside activities, including pursueing a higher degree (which would add value to me as an employee) that I would like to continue enjoying. She sat there for a moment and I could see the confused look of "How can one have a life outside the company" on her face. I also explained to her the I am currently working at a position with similar duties making the same pay and only working 40 hours a week. There was disbelif on her face that such a place exsisted. The final meeting of the day was with my potential boss and he asked what I thought about the position. I said I thought it was a great opportunity and beleived I could add real value to the company, however, I can't work 48 hour weeks. Again the questions was "Why not?". I explained to him also about family and having an outside life. He asked about my activities and began calculating the hours it took up each week, then said "I think you have a conflict." So my life is a conflict of work. I was really disappointed as this was a great company but just don't understand how they can seemingly be so out of touch with reality. The company is my life attitude vanished a long time ago. Given equal duties, pay, communting time, etc. why would anyone chose to work longer hours? Am I missing something?
only two letters away from being an asset
I know what you mean - keep looking and you'll find a job that you'll love doing and doesn't interfere with your private life... .leON.
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I went to an interview yesterday, a full day of meeting people, lunch with the VP, tour of the facility, etc. This was after two phone interviews, about 1.5 hours each. After the phone interviews I was excited to see the place and talk with the people and all through the day I saw some place that could be a very interesting environment to work in with great people. The day ended with an HR person who explained the benefits and compensation arrangement. Everything sounded great, then the ball was dropped. Everyone here works 48 hours a week she says. It wasn't, we have a lot to do so everyone puts in some extra time, it was 48 hours per week is mandatory and the minimum acceptable for a salaried employee. When I said I couldn't work 48 hour weeks she asked, in a stunned voice "Why not?". I explained that I have a family and outside activities, including pursueing a higher degree (which would add value to me as an employee) that I would like to continue enjoying. She sat there for a moment and I could see the confused look of "How can one have a life outside the company" on her face. I also explained to her the I am currently working at a position with similar duties making the same pay and only working 40 hours a week. There was disbelif on her face that such a place exsisted. The final meeting of the day was with my potential boss and he asked what I thought about the position. I said I thought it was a great opportunity and beleived I could add real value to the company, however, I can't work 48 hour weeks. Again the questions was "Why not?". I explained to him also about family and having an outside life. He asked about my activities and began calculating the hours it took up each week, then said "I think you have a conflict." So my life is a conflict of work. I was really disappointed as this was a great company but just don't understand how they can seemingly be so out of touch with reality. The company is my life attitude vanished a long time ago. Given equal duties, pay, communting time, etc. why would anyone chose to work longer hours? Am I missing something?
only two letters away from being an asset
At least they told you up front. I've gotten into situations where the management was so crappy we had to work overtime to compensate. I helped start up a garbage burner in Virginia with Beta software. It took 5 months of 80-120 hours/week to straighten the mess out. I left the company soon after the job ended! Mike
Caution - Be sure to put brain in gear before putting mouth in motion
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I went to an interview yesterday, a full day of meeting people, lunch with the VP, tour of the facility, etc. This was after two phone interviews, about 1.5 hours each. After the phone interviews I was excited to see the place and talk with the people and all through the day I saw some place that could be a very interesting environment to work in with great people. The day ended with an HR person who explained the benefits and compensation arrangement. Everything sounded great, then the ball was dropped. Everyone here works 48 hours a week she says. It wasn't, we have a lot to do so everyone puts in some extra time, it was 48 hours per week is mandatory and the minimum acceptable for a salaried employee. When I said I couldn't work 48 hour weeks she asked, in a stunned voice "Why not?". I explained that I have a family and outside activities, including pursueing a higher degree (which would add value to me as an employee) that I would like to continue enjoying. She sat there for a moment and I could see the confused look of "How can one have a life outside the company" on her face. I also explained to her the I am currently working at a position with similar duties making the same pay and only working 40 hours a week. There was disbelif on her face that such a place exsisted. The final meeting of the day was with my potential boss and he asked what I thought about the position. I said I thought it was a great opportunity and beleived I could add real value to the company, however, I can't work 48 hour weeks. Again the questions was "Why not?". I explained to him also about family and having an outside life. He asked about my activities and began calculating the hours it took up each week, then said "I think you have a conflict." So my life is a conflict of work. I was really disappointed as this was a great company but just don't understand how they can seemingly be so out of touch with reality. The company is my life attitude vanished a long time ago. Given equal duties, pay, communting time, etc. why would anyone chose to work longer hours? Am I missing something?
only two letters away from being an asset
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I went to an interview yesterday, a full day of meeting people, lunch with the VP, tour of the facility, etc. This was after two phone interviews, about 1.5 hours each. After the phone interviews I was excited to see the place and talk with the people and all through the day I saw some place that could be a very interesting environment to work in with great people. The day ended with an HR person who explained the benefits and compensation arrangement. Everything sounded great, then the ball was dropped. Everyone here works 48 hours a week she says. It wasn't, we have a lot to do so everyone puts in some extra time, it was 48 hours per week is mandatory and the minimum acceptable for a salaried employee. When I said I couldn't work 48 hour weeks she asked, in a stunned voice "Why not?". I explained that I have a family and outside activities, including pursueing a higher degree (which would add value to me as an employee) that I would like to continue enjoying. She sat there for a moment and I could see the confused look of "How can one have a life outside the company" on her face. I also explained to her the I am currently working at a position with similar duties making the same pay and only working 40 hours a week. There was disbelif on her face that such a place exsisted. The final meeting of the day was with my potential boss and he asked what I thought about the position. I said I thought it was a great opportunity and beleived I could add real value to the company, however, I can't work 48 hour weeks. Again the questions was "Why not?". I explained to him also about family and having an outside life. He asked about my activities and began calculating the hours it took up each week, then said "I think you have a conflict." So my life is a conflict of work. I was really disappointed as this was a great company but just don't understand how they can seemingly be so out of touch with reality. The company is my life attitude vanished a long time ago. Given equal duties, pay, communting time, etc. why would anyone chose to work longer hours? Am I missing something?
only two letters away from being an asset
Mark Nischalke wrote:
The company is my life attitude vanished a long time ago.
On behalf of Terrans everywhere, let me be the first to welcome you to Earth. We hope your stay here is a pleasant one. I'm not really sure how things are back on the planet you're from, but here on Earth the "company is my life" attitude is alive and well. The fact that you've not personally encountered it simply means you haven't fully experienced all our lovely little planet has to offer. :-D
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalUSA.com
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I went to an interview yesterday, a full day of meeting people, lunch with the VP, tour of the facility, etc. This was after two phone interviews, about 1.5 hours each. After the phone interviews I was excited to see the place and talk with the people and all through the day I saw some place that could be a very interesting environment to work in with great people. The day ended with an HR person who explained the benefits and compensation arrangement. Everything sounded great, then the ball was dropped. Everyone here works 48 hours a week she says. It wasn't, we have a lot to do so everyone puts in some extra time, it was 48 hours per week is mandatory and the minimum acceptable for a salaried employee. When I said I couldn't work 48 hour weeks she asked, in a stunned voice "Why not?". I explained that I have a family and outside activities, including pursueing a higher degree (which would add value to me as an employee) that I would like to continue enjoying. She sat there for a moment and I could see the confused look of "How can one have a life outside the company" on her face. I also explained to her the I am currently working at a position with similar duties making the same pay and only working 40 hours a week. There was disbelif on her face that such a place exsisted. The final meeting of the day was with my potential boss and he asked what I thought about the position. I said I thought it was a great opportunity and beleived I could add real value to the company, however, I can't work 48 hour weeks. Again the questions was "Why not?". I explained to him also about family and having an outside life. He asked about my activities and began calculating the hours it took up each week, then said "I think you have a conflict." So my life is a conflict of work. I was really disappointed as this was a great company but just don't understand how they can seemingly be so out of touch with reality. The company is my life attitude vanished a long time ago. Given equal duties, pay, communting time, etc. why would anyone chose to work longer hours? Am I missing something?
only two letters away from being an asset
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That's too funny. 48 hours a week. Clearly all they really want to hire are very junior, raw talent that they can take advantage of until those people leave for real jobs elsewhere where they are treated with respect.
"110%" - it's the new 70%
To the contrary I'm afraid. The industry is very high tech (not software) and quite a few of the people have some advanced degrees. That's what makes it even more unfathomable that intelligent people would accept it. Though I can understand the point of being passionate and consumed by your work...yet work is not my life.
only two letters away from being an asset
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Mark Nischalke wrote:
The company is my life attitude vanished a long time ago.
On behalf of Terrans everywhere, let me be the first to welcome you to Earth. We hope your stay here is a pleasant one. I'm not really sure how things are back on the planet you're from, but here on Earth the "company is my life" attitude is alive and well. The fact that you've not personally encountered it simply means you haven't fully experienced all our lovely little planet has to offer. :-D
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalUSA.com
Too bad this place is so far off the Galactic Highway I'm having difficulty getting picked up. At least I have my towel, so all is well.
only two letters away from being an asset
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40 hours is the absolute maximum I would be prepared to work full time in a given week, Ok there are the odd occasions which require working the odd evening or weekend, but that should be few and far between and should be rewarded with a day in lieu or some finacial recompense.
Mark Nischalke wrote:
Am I missing something?
No but it looks like that company is!
P Think of the environment; please don't print this message unless you really need to.
Even 40 hours is too much, though I understand that's the US standard. 37.5 is typical in the UK, 35 in the financial sector.
Kevin
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I used to work for a consulting company. They were sending us to clients, and clients were sometimes requesting us to work more time. When this happened (and it happened a lot on a project I worked), the company I was working for (this company name is Avanade, a joint venture between MS and Accenture, formerly Anderson Consulting) was charging the extra hours to the client, but we were never paid for overtime. I think this is pure robbery. Needless to say, I didn't not work for them for a long time and I stressed that reason for me leaving them.
----- Formerly MP(2) If atheism is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby. -- Unknown
Interesting. I interviewed at Avanade at their Chicago office 3-4 months ago. They told me upfront that they didn't offer the highest salaries in the industry, but people rarely left the company because they liked it so much there. :~ They walked me down the office and while most of the management/administrative/higher end positions were held by white males, more than 50% of their employees were of Indian descent. Needless to say when they made an offer they weren't kidding about not paying much. Kind of fits together.
