The 'Death of Physics'
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73Zeppelin wrote:
couldn't draw graphs without using a graphing calculator
There are people I know that if you gave them the small till receipt from a grocery store and asked them to add the values together, they couldn't do it without a calculator. When I were young (I am showing my age now! ) calculators didn't exist, so that was done either mentally or with pencil and paper. Using a calculator makes you lazy. Perhaps there should be a campaign to bring back log books (logarithm tables, Sine+Cosine+Tangent tables and Square Root tables etc). I presume most older people will understand what they were.
Log books are no different to a calculator though - it's looking something up in a table. I've got no issue with people using a calculator when it's for things that are practically impossible to work out in their head, such as logs, or where absolute precision is required for things like square roots. It's where calculators are used by default when the brain could easily do it that the problem lies.
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73Zeppelin wrote:
couldn't draw graphs without using a graphing calculator
There are people I know that if you gave them the small till receipt from a grocery store and asked them to add the values together, they couldn't do it without a calculator. When I were young (I am showing my age now! ) calculators didn't exist, so that was done either mentally or with pencil and paper. Using a calculator makes you lazy. Perhaps there should be a campaign to bring back log books (logarithm tables, Sine+Cosine+Tangent tables and Square Root tables etc). I presume most older people will understand what they were.
I suppose I should have more sympathy for students these days because it's the system that is failing them. When I had my little bouts of anger and frustration I was also younger and more reactionary. Still, some of the people in those classes deserved to be called stupid and dumb as a wake-up call. Wilfull ignorance is not an excuse for a poor secondary school education. Anyways... Yes, I used to use log-tables in my chemistry class and would spend hours doing a titration properly. We were forced to stay over-time if we didn't get it right. Some nights I was at the chemistry lab until 9pm at night having been there basically all day. I also used to sleep in the graduate students office. Some of the electrodynamics assignments were so difficult I'd spend day after day just working on them and sleeping in the office. I'd grab showers at the athletic department in the mornings. I basically lived at the university during the last year of my course-work. Unfortunately, these days it doesn't seem to be acceptable to make students work and suffer for their achievements. Learning is not easy - it requires effort and repetition and a sound knowledge of the basics. I think students aren't getting the proper education these days. Instead the debate is whether or not to teach complete garbage like ID in the courses or not to "stress" students with excessive maths. Our society has become a TV and media society where problems are conveniently resolved in 1/2hour to 1 hour time slots on TV and everything ends happily and wonderfully. Well, in life that's not what happens. But this is now turning into a rant against TV, so I'll stop here and just say that I no longer have the patience to teach anymore. But I agree with everything you say. There is no substitute for pencil and paper.
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I suppose I should have more sympathy for students these days because it's the system that is failing them. When I had my little bouts of anger and frustration I was also younger and more reactionary. Still, some of the people in those classes deserved to be called stupid and dumb as a wake-up call. Wilfull ignorance is not an excuse for a poor secondary school education. Anyways... Yes, I used to use log-tables in my chemistry class and would spend hours doing a titration properly. We were forced to stay over-time if we didn't get it right. Some nights I was at the chemistry lab until 9pm at night having been there basically all day. I also used to sleep in the graduate students office. Some of the electrodynamics assignments were so difficult I'd spend day after day just working on them and sleeping in the office. I'd grab showers at the athletic department in the mornings. I basically lived at the university during the last year of my course-work. Unfortunately, these days it doesn't seem to be acceptable to make students work and suffer for their achievements. Learning is not easy - it requires effort and repetition and a sound knowledge of the basics. I think students aren't getting the proper education these days. Instead the debate is whether or not to teach complete garbage like ID in the courses or not to "stress" students with excessive maths. Our society has become a TV and media society where problems are conveniently resolved in 1/2hour to 1 hour time slots on TV and everything ends happily and wonderfully. Well, in life that's not what happens. But this is now turning into a rant against TV, so I'll stop here and just say that I no longer have the patience to teach anymore. But I agree with everything you say. There is no substitute for pencil and paper.
73Zeppelin wrote:
I think students aren't getting the proper education these days.
Government has a poor track record running anything.
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73Zeppelin wrote:
I think students aren't getting the proper education these days.
Government has a poor track record running anything.
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Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Then who or what should determine what should be a National Curriculum
There should be a national curriculum?
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Yes, the teaching and learning of the sciences and mathematics have always been a challenge. Some pupils absorb the information better and easier than others. Some teachers are excellent in delivering their subject. Others are hopeless, others have lost their enthusiasm. And the National Curriculum does from time to time change. To have a better understanding of GCSE Physics, this from AQA http://www.aqa.org.uk/qual/pdf/AQA-4451-W-SP-07.PDF#glance[^] is required reading.
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73Zeppelin wrote:
I think students aren't getting the proper education these days.
Government has a poor track record running anything.
Red Stateler wrote:
Government has a poor track record running anything.
Depends on the governmental policy. I was educated in the public school system and don't regret it. Private schools aren't a haven for success, either. Most are rife with drugs and corruption. MIT was accused of handing out degrees in exchange for money. I don't believe this was a particularly isolated point, either. I also saw cases of students pushed through the university system that really had no business graduating with a degree.
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Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Then who or what should determine what should be a National Curriculum
There should be a national curriculum?
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The national curriculum is the root of the problem, it's way too subject to the political whims of the day as it can be seen and used as a tool to manipulate the national character. Not 'enough girls' doing science - make it about opinion and current affairs. Some Islamists blow up a bus in London? - More civics lessons and a whitewashing of Islamic theology. Most independent schools opt out of it, many state schools would if given the choice, and its not hard to see why.
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Red Stateler wrote:
Government has a poor track record running anything.
Depends on the governmental policy. I was educated in the public school system and don't regret it. Private schools aren't a haven for success, either. Most are rife with drugs and corruption. MIT was accused of handing out degrees in exchange for money. I don't believe this was a particularly isolated point, either. I also saw cases of students pushed through the university system that really had no business graduating with a degree.
I was also educated in public schools which, in itself, should make a good argument to immediately shut them all down. Private schools[^], however, are significantly cheaper and yield far better test scores than public schools. Government is essentially a forceful monopoly and monopolies have a tendency to increase prices and decrease quality.
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The national curriculum is the root of the problem, it's way too subject to the political whims of the day as it can be seen and used as a tool to manipulate the national character. Not 'enough girls' doing science - make it about opinion and current affairs. Some Islamists blow up a bus in London? - More civics lessons and a whitewashing of Islamic theology. Most independent schools opt out of it, many state schools would if given the choice, and its not hard to see why.
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A set of educational and qualification standards across an entire country? Why not? Don't you have such a thing in the USA? Then how do you assess that school children are performing unless there is some kind of standard.
A "standard" and a "curriculum" are two different things. To say that a student must read at a certain proficiency or perform math at a certain proficiency would be a standard. Determining which books that child must read in his path to attain that proficiency would be a curriculum.
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Apparently, the new science curriculum has changed GCSE physics teaching from imparting basic mathematical models that go some way to describe the behaviour of matter and energy into an exercise in regurgitating the political and cultural norms of the day[^]. Typical questions include: `why would radio stations broadcast digital signals rather than analogue signals?’ An acceptable answer is: Can be processed by computer / ipod `Why must we develop renewable energy sources?’ 'Below which age is it recommended that children use a mobile phone in emergencies only?' What a great way to introduce our children to the most important, complex and subtle of the natural sciences. Where the hell are the bloody Tories on this rampant idiocy and near Lysenkoism?
10 years after the GCSE, what is the proportion of knowledge still there for 80% of the ex-pupils? I would bet for an answer under 10%. It sounds weird, but I'm not sure the thinking behind th reform is totally absurd.The bureaucratic implementation is as too often disastrous, but I'm not sure the teacher is right either.
I prefer the company of peasants because they have not been educated sufficiently to reason incorrectly. Fold with us! ¤ flickr
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A set of educational and qualification standards across an entire country? Why not? Don't you have such a thing in the USA? Then how do you assess that school children are performing unless there is some kind of standard.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Then how do you assess that school children are performing unless there is some kind of standard.
Their Standard Aptitude Test (SAT's) or whatever it is called.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash 24/04/2004
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Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Then how do you assess that school children are performing unless there is some kind of standard.
Their Standard Aptitude Test (SAT's) or whatever it is called.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash 24/04/2004
SAT's arent always a good indicator. Here in South Carolina, EVERY sophmore in high school MUST take the SAT, not the pSAT, but the actual SAT. This is one of the reasons that South Carolina has one of the lowest average SAT scores. Im not saying that we have an outstanding world class education system here in SC, im just saying that national tests arent always a good indicator.
------------------------------ I win because I have the most fun in life... "God - the imaginary friend for adults..." - George Carlin If Science came from religion, then why do Christians believe Jesus is magic?
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SAT's arent always a good indicator. Here in South Carolina, EVERY sophmore in high school MUST take the SAT, not the pSAT, but the actual SAT. This is one of the reasons that South Carolina has one of the lowest average SAT scores. Im not saying that we have an outstanding world class education system here in SC, im just saying that national tests arent always a good indicator.
------------------------------ I win because I have the most fun in life... "God - the imaginary friend for adults..." - George Carlin If Science came from religion, then why do Christians believe Jesus is magic?
You should run for governor saying you'll improve education. Then, when elected, remove the SAT requirement. Then you can say SAT scores improved a great deal because of your hard work and you'll be able to squeeze out another term.
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Yes, I would prefer a standard (or multiple standards that are agreed by employers and universities) that isn't subject to the whims of government or in the Baccalaureate's case the narrow polticial perspectives that afflict many transnational organisations. My emphasis would be on schools choice rather than any particular curriculum.
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You should run for governor saying you'll improve education. Then, when elected, remove the SAT requirement. Then you can say SAT scores improved a great deal because of your hard work and you'll be able to squeeze out another term.
:laugh:
------------------------------ I win because I have the most fun in life... "God - the imaginary friend for adults..." - George Carlin If Science came from religion, then why do Christians believe Jesus is magic?
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Apparently, the new science curriculum has changed GCSE physics teaching from imparting basic mathematical models that go some way to describe the behaviour of matter and energy into an exercise in regurgitating the political and cultural norms of the day[^]. Typical questions include: `why would radio stations broadcast digital signals rather than analogue signals?’ An acceptable answer is: Can be processed by computer / ipod `Why must we develop renewable energy sources?’ 'Below which age is it recommended that children use a mobile phone in emergencies only?' What a great way to introduce our children to the most important, complex and subtle of the natural sciences. Where the hell are the bloody Tories on this rampant idiocy and near Lysenkoism?
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The national curriculum is the root of the problem, it's way too subject to the political whims of the day as it can be seen and used as a tool to manipulate the national character. Not 'enough girls' doing science - make it about opinion and current affairs. Some Islamists blow up a bus in London? - More civics lessons and a whitewashing of Islamic theology. Most independent schools opt out of it, many state schools would if given the choice, and its not hard to see why.
Ryan Roberts wrote:
The national curriculum is the root of the problem, it's way too subject to the political whims of the day as it can be seen and used as a tool to manipulate the national character.
This is a very interesting point. I wouldn't (yet) go as far to suggest a conspiracy, but there are bound to be all manner of decisions made to serve interests other than those of the British people. And, of course, in this culture of *political spin*, where politicians can tell out-right lies to the electorate, and can effectively get away with it, we, the people, are unlikely to ever know what's really going on. Britain is basically becoming a centre of service industry. We have very little manufacturing left, and this is unlikely to change given the exchange rates (we could have everything manufactured in the US, and effectively pay half-price, so it's little wonder that everything goes to China). So in effect, we're creating a new underclass - a hugely unskilled workforce, qualified only to wash dishes. It won't be long (and given the appalling state of the education system, possibly even sooner than I think!) before we have a return to the old class system where those who are fortunate enough to go to private school get the best (and best paid) jobs, and where the rest of us are left out to dry...