iPhone - is that all it is?
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Anyone else living outside of the US think that the iPhone is overpriced and feature-less. I pay USD25 a month for a full 3G service, with Video calls and thousands of minutes. I have a Nokia N93 which cost me about USD400 10 months ago, with a 18 month plan. I have a 4Gb memory card with my music, podcasts (which download through my wireless LAN), SMS, MMS, games, email sync with outlook, POP3 with my ISP. My friend has a touch screen O2 for about the same amount of money, with similar features, with a similar plan. The iPhone will be more expensive and I'm told the starting plan will be USD100 per month! It seems Apple is just trying to shake up the US market, which seems to be 10 years behind Asia, and 5-7 years behind Europe. I can't see them doing many sales anywhere else. Stano
stano wrote:
iPhone is overpriced
I suspect that the iPhone's price has been selected to pull in the early adopters - i.e. the people who don't care how much it costs, they'll buy it anyway. Bit like the iPod was priced 5 or 6 years ago? These days, the iPod is pretty much on a par in terms of cost with other MP3 players (certainly much closer than it was). I suspect the iPhone will follow a similar pricing profile.
stano wrote:
feature-less
I'm guessing that Apple would say the main discriminating feature you're buying is the intangible one - the quality of the design - both hardware and software. I'll admit I'm a bit of an Apple fanboy - but I only got that way after buying (cheaply) and using the products (an iPod and an iBook). Would I buy Apple again? Oh, yeah.
stano wrote:
It seems Apple is just trying to shake up the US market, which seems to be 10 years behind Asia, and 5-7 years behind Europe. I can't see them doing many sales anywhere else.
You could well be right...but remember that this is the first version iPhone. The first version of the iPod was limited similarly - only Mac users could use them. Next version of the iPhone? Who knows?
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Because it's Apple. If iPhone is been sold under another brand then it will not cost that much. 6 months ago I might want to buy a iPhone, but now I preferred HTC Touch Elf myself.
---- Think Different, Do Smarter, Work for Joy!!
Hsiang-Tai Chien wrote:
If iPhone is been sold under another brand then it will not cost that much.
Are you stuck in 1995? Apple are no longer the over-priced company they were.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
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Anyone else living outside of the US think that the iPhone is overpriced and feature-less. I pay USD25 a month for a full 3G service, with Video calls and thousands of minutes. I have a Nokia N93 which cost me about USD400 10 months ago, with a 18 month plan. I have a 4Gb memory card with my music, podcasts (which download through my wireless LAN), SMS, MMS, games, email sync with outlook, POP3 with my ISP. My friend has a touch screen O2 for about the same amount of money, with similar features, with a similar plan. The iPhone will be more expensive and I'm told the starting plan will be USD100 per month! It seems Apple is just trying to shake up the US market, which seems to be 10 years behind Asia, and 5-7 years behind Europe. I can't see them doing many sales anywhere else. Stano
Usability and design. Your Nokia N93 has neither, the iPhone has both. (I have a Nokia N95 next to me here and it does far more than an iPhone but it sucks at doing all of it. Awful interface.)
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
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Usability and design. Your Nokia N93 has neither, the iPhone has both. (I have a Nokia N95 next to me here and it does far more than an iPhone but it sucks at doing all of it. Awful interface.)
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
Stuart Dootson - what he said. A lot of industry people seem very worried about the iPhone & my opinion is that it could be curtains for Microsoft-based phones for some time to come, & rightly so. Ok so a lot of the iPhone is hype & there will be ups & downs with it, but it's finally shaken up the market to really start delivering on the promises that smartphones offer.
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Stuart Dootson - what he said. A lot of industry people seem very worried about the iPhone & my opinion is that it could be curtains for Microsoft-based phones for some time to come, & rightly so. Ok so a lot of the iPhone is hype & there will be ups & downs with it, but it's finally shaken up the market to really start delivering on the promises that smartphones offer.
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Hsiang-Tai Chien wrote:
If iPhone is been sold under another brand then it will not cost that much.
Are you stuck in 1995? Apple are no longer the over-priced company they were.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
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Hsiang-Tai Chien wrote:
If iPhone is been sold under another brand then it will not cost that much.
Are you stuck in 1995? Apple are no longer the over-priced company they were.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
Paul Watson wrote:
Are you stuck in 1995? Apple are no longer the over-priced company they were.
Maybe. It's not just me saying that on the net. Regards, H.T. Taiwan
---- Think Different, Do Smarter, Work for Joy!!
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So then, why iPod is the most expensive mp3/4 player comparing to others with the same capacity/quality?
AValor wrote:
So then, why iPod is the most expensive mp3/4 player comparing to others with the same capacity/quality?
Because it is better than the rest. It consistently scores the highest reviews, it outsells every other MP3 player and has the best music store integration. Feature count and technical capabilities is not the whole story of a product.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
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stano wrote:
iPhone is overpriced
I suspect that the iPhone's price has been selected to pull in the early adopters - i.e. the people who don't care how much it costs, they'll buy it anyway. Bit like the iPod was priced 5 or 6 years ago? These days, the iPod is pretty much on a par in terms of cost with other MP3 players (certainly much closer than it was). I suspect the iPhone will follow a similar pricing profile.
stano wrote:
feature-less
I'm guessing that Apple would say the main discriminating feature you're buying is the intangible one - the quality of the design - both hardware and software. I'll admit I'm a bit of an Apple fanboy - but I only got that way after buying (cheaply) and using the products (an iPod and an iBook). Would I buy Apple again? Oh, yeah.
stano wrote:
It seems Apple is just trying to shake up the US market, which seems to be 10 years behind Asia, and 5-7 years behind Europe. I can't see them doing many sales anywhere else.
You could well be right...but remember that this is the first version iPhone. The first version of the iPod was limited similarly - only Mac users could use them. Next version of the iPhone? Who knows?
Stuart Dootson wrote:
You could well be right...but remember that this is the first version iPhone. The first version of the iPod was limited similarly - only Mac users could use them. Next version of the iPhone? Who knows?
Yea the next gen will probably interface with Microsoft Surface, try to, but not work with Vista, and cost $299. If they don't release third party application development and support they are screwed though...
############################################# A comment from some code: "The devision operations in the SET function calls are intentional, do not change them, they will prevent a software bug from causing the robot to drive through twelve cubical walls"
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Usability and design. Your Nokia N93 has neither, the iPhone has both. (I have a Nokia N95 next to me here and it does far more than an iPhone but it sucks at doing all of it. Awful interface.)
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
I have a Nokia something or other - it has numbers on the front, I dial in the right number and press the green button and talk - thats usability. Also it fits nicely in my pocket - thats design, what more do I need? To look cool? I don't need a phone to look cool - I have pens in my top pocket for that ;P
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I have a Nokia something or other - it has numbers on the front, I dial in the right number and press the green button and talk - thats usability. Also it fits nicely in my pocket - thats design, what more do I need? To look cool? I don't need a phone to look cool - I have pens in my top pocket for that ;P
Obviously a smart phone is not for you then. So why are you arguing for or against the iPhone at all?
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
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Obviously a smart phone is not for you then. So why are you arguing for or against the iPhone at all?
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
Paul Watson wrote:
So why are you arguing for or against the iPhone at all?
Sorry, I didn't realise we were having an argument! Any comments about whether the iPhone is good or not are always going to be subjective, read reviews of any product and you will read good and bad. A phone is for making phone calls - one that costs $500 more than the one I have is, in my opinion, overpriced whatever gadgets and gizmos they may have tagged on to make it look good!:)
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AValor wrote:
So then, why iPod is the most expensive mp3/4 player comparing to others with the same capacity/quality?
Because it is better than the rest. It consistently scores the highest reviews, it outsells every other MP3 player and has the best music store integration. Feature count and technical capabilities is not the whole story of a product.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
Funny if you read both answer simultaneoulsy, sorry but it contains contradiction. Apple did a great Job for UI, but iPod is overpriced if you look to the manufacturing cost. This means that Apple can get a lot from their original idea and design. As it cost them less than critical 13% margin cap than a tech compagny need to match for being profitable (Not ready to debate, it's a rule of thumb from Harvard studies) Means Apple is planing huge profit. That's life. Reallity is that no other vendors have the guts to step out of classical design alley!!. Apple struggle for life, they were nearly dead and still not out of the blue. Steve Jobs did a great He reengineering the company, but don't be overestimate them juste in June because we can see/here loud!! Ipod stepping out. Theyr alos get luck, as MP3 is a proprietary format that will die (thanks to Franhaufer Institute!!) theyr had to design their own compression, and guess what since they do it, changing the DRM systeme that come with it and the UI cost them just a penny. Their is still place for a challenger, see how RIM (Research In Motion) take out on the PDA market. - Nokia is that much arrogant (sorry guys I ad very disappointing discussion with you when you say that you own the market and deosn't need anything from anybody) - Motorola sleep over Z3 and is too much of a "giant" Asian manufaturer fight on price and win (compare revenue) they surely will never take a risk - Sony, the only contender, is out of money, but still not enough to become creative (again ?) - Microsoft/linux ? Hmm I don't know. It's up to us guys! Doesn't any of us have enough spare time, guts, good idea to start a new concept and implement it. I am no seeling Msoft r Linux here, just that I can't afford to buy or create a new IDE. As opposed to tradditional vendor who carefully close their envirronnement, their could be a chance for developping original idea here. Team up with a fashion designer, change the paradigm (read Arthur C Clark again), split processing power between your pocket and your other pocket, when at office increase it by Bluetooth connection to your main laptop, just to make it learning, Find proper bridge with web (WAP show a path, but was too early to get benefit from hardware tech.) In short get a secretary/friend/jewels/funny toy, and leave Phone/computer/calculator/agenda in the closet, Theses devices become our new physical extension like a wrist watch. So they will be their for long, but remember, wrist watch is
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So then, why iPod is the most expensive mp3/4 player comparing to others with the same capacity/quality?
Because a product is more than just capacity and specifications. The iPhone, like the iPod, is all about making it easier to do what you normally do with these devices. Apple's value is sometimes in *removing* features for the sake of usability (for example, no FM receiver in the iPod). The iPhone may have fewer or different features than you want, but that's not the point of the iPhone. The iPhone is about making the experience of using a phone better. For many gear fanatics, the current lineup of phones works just fine. Everybody likes their buttons, tiny screens, non-predictive typing, etc. But those people are in the minority. The vast, vast, _vast_ majority of people actually do care about products that are easier to use. They will pay to get less features in exchange for more ease-of-use. The iPod is a perfect example of that.
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Anyone else living outside of the US think that the iPhone is overpriced and feature-less. I pay USD25 a month for a full 3G service, with Video calls and thousands of minutes. I have a Nokia N93 which cost me about USD400 10 months ago, with a 18 month plan. I have a 4Gb memory card with my music, podcasts (which download through my wireless LAN), SMS, MMS, games, email sync with outlook, POP3 with my ISP. My friend has a touch screen O2 for about the same amount of money, with similar features, with a similar plan. The iPhone will be more expensive and I'm told the starting plan will be USD100 per month! It seems Apple is just trying to shake up the US market, which seems to be 10 years behind Asia, and 5-7 years behind Europe. I can't see them doing many sales anywhere else. Stano
stano wrote:
Anyone else living outside of the US
Heh, yeah, that's utterly irrelevant. Compared to some countries, all of our mobile phones are over priced and under-endowed. That's just the nature of living here.
For instance, i have yet to meet someone with POP access on their phone, much less see one offered for sale. I'm not saying it's unheard of, but if it exists here it's very, very rare. That said, i don't think the bullet-list feature set was supposed to be the main selling point for the iPhone. Let's face it - even on my dirt-cheap little flip phone there are many features i don't use, simply because the confusing menus and poorly-designed on-screen displays make them so damn frustrating... and i've never seen a phone that does much better. If the iPhone can actually bring half-way decent UI design to the mobile phone market, i'll be happy.
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Yes, but can you blame them for doing so if that's the only legal way they can hire programmers they want at the rate they can afford?
-- Nish on sketchy hiring practices
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Paul Watson wrote:
So why are you arguing for or against the iPhone at all?
Sorry, I didn't realise we were having an argument! Any comments about whether the iPhone is good or not are always going to be subjective, read reviews of any product and you will read good and bad. A phone is for making phone calls - one that costs $500 more than the one I have is, in my opinion, overpriced whatever gadgets and gizmos they may have tagged on to make it look good!:)
I suspect the target market (measured in the 10's of millions, maybe?) will disagree with the "a phone is for making phone calls" statement. While I agree, I think we are in the minority. I'm one of those people who would gladly pay extra for a phone *without* a camera, voice memos, games, etc. etc. etc. I have a bottom-of-the-pile samsung because it was just about the only phone I could find in a clamshell that didn't have a camera. Man, if I could buy a phone that is just a phone with great reception and battery life (though I'd like bluetooth, too), I'd gladly pay several hundred dollars for it. If you want a good read, visit the slashdot archives and watch everybody whine and complain about how the ipod is awful design, way overpriced, way underpriced, etc. I think we can all agree that Apple knew what they were doing when they designed the ipod. I think they'll have the same success with the iphone, in spite of us who wish a phone was just a phone.
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I suspect the target market (measured in the 10's of millions, maybe?) will disagree with the "a phone is for making phone calls" statement. While I agree, I think we are in the minority. I'm one of those people who would gladly pay extra for a phone *without* a camera, voice memos, games, etc. etc. etc. I have a bottom-of-the-pile samsung because it was just about the only phone I could find in a clamshell that didn't have a camera. Man, if I could buy a phone that is just a phone with great reception and battery life (though I'd like bluetooth, too), I'd gladly pay several hundred dollars for it. If you want a good read, visit the slashdot archives and watch everybody whine and complain about how the ipod is awful design, way overpriced, way underpriced, etc. I think we can all agree that Apple knew what they were doing when they designed the ipod. I think they'll have the same success with the iphone, in spite of us who wish a phone was just a phone.
Yeah I know I'm in the minority here ("Dad, you're so uncool" I get it all the time) but apart from all the hype (yeah it might be 'in my face' all the time but I still don't want one ok?) I have two main problems with this kind of product:- firstly I don't want a phone with a camera because a lot of the places I work just don't allow them for security reasons, secondly one of the few places I get to sit and listen to my MP3 player without interruption is on a plane - I fly regularly and even turning on the phone is not allowed so I wouldn't even be able to use the iPhone for music. Even if the regulation were relaxed to allow phones on planes I wouldn't want it ringing every 5mins while trying to listen to music - and yes I know I'm in 'Grumpy Old Man' territory here!:)
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Yeah I know I'm in the minority here ("Dad, you're so uncool" I get it all the time) but apart from all the hype (yeah it might be 'in my face' all the time but I still don't want one ok?) I have two main problems with this kind of product:- firstly I don't want a phone with a camera because a lot of the places I work just don't allow them for security reasons, secondly one of the few places I get to sit and listen to my MP3 player without interruption is on a plane - I fly regularly and even turning on the phone is not allowed so I wouldn't even be able to use the iPhone for music. Even if the regulation were relaxed to allow phones on planes I wouldn't want it ringing every 5mins while trying to listen to music - and yes I know I'm in 'Grumpy Old Man' territory here!:)
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I believe the iphone has an "airplane mode" that turns off all wifi and cell features, letting you use all the other features. I understand the bit about the camera. It's impossible to find a decent phone without a camera.
You assume the airline executives are smart enough to be able to grasp it and update their policies accordingly. You also assume that in the unlikely event that they do allow the iPhone in airplane mode they won't have to revoke it 5 minutes later because all the numskulls who can't grasp 'turn your phone to vibrate' at the movies will somehow be able to figure out how to set their iPhone to airplane mode. ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111one
-- You have to explain to them [VB coders] what you mean by "typed". their first response is likely to be something like, "Of course my code is typed. Do you think i magically project it onto the screen with the power of my mind?" --- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
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Anyone else living outside of the US think that the iPhone is overpriced and feature-less. I pay USD25 a month for a full 3G service, with Video calls and thousands of minutes. I have a Nokia N93 which cost me about USD400 10 months ago, with a 18 month plan. I have a 4Gb memory card with my music, podcasts (which download through my wireless LAN), SMS, MMS, games, email sync with outlook, POP3 with my ISP. My friend has a touch screen O2 for about the same amount of money, with similar features, with a similar plan. The iPhone will be more expensive and I'm told the starting plan will be USD100 per month! It seems Apple is just trying to shake up the US market, which seems to be 10 years behind Asia, and 5-7 years behind Europe. I can't see them doing many sales anywhere else. Stano
I find the entire iPhone discussion hysterical! Why in the world is their this headlong lemming-parade to live lives through tiny screens and earphones? You're all arguing the wrong point. I'm not being a Luddite about this, but when one keeps adding bells and whistles, doesn't there become apoint where the device (and its purchaser) are just props in a sit-com? Who really need a red pocket knife with a spoon, scissors, compass, nose-hair trimmer, fountain pen, drinking cup, AM-FM transmitter, . . . Does anyone else here see the psychological epidemic taking place? That people can't drive even a short distance without interfacing their phone to their ear with a bent elbow? [This regardless of it being illegal (in my state)]. What kind of nit-wit would wait on line a week before the device goes on sale? Or a trendy toy? Or the latest Harry Potter book? When did behaving like jerks have equate to value-added? I thought the SUV plague was bad. What the hell is going on ??? Is there anything left of value other than being trendy - and being the first to be trendy? It's all I can do to maintain even mildly civil whilst the idiots tighten their group on the world.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein