What are the advantages of "black box" engine ?
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Well...you don't have to apologise to me. Here, if this will make you stop crying. :rose:
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Advantages to the consumer: none Advantages to the manufacturer: locks you in to an expensive service schedule with only "accredited" mechanics because special tools are required to do even the most basic service.
'--8<------------------------ Ex Datis: Duncan Jones Merrion Computing Ltd
Duncan Edwards Jones wrote:
Advantages to the consumer: none
I guess the same engines as of today, made with common, replaceble, and easily accessible parts would need to be pulled on a tractor trailer behind your car.
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
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Duncan Edwards Jones wrote:
Advantages to the consumer: none
I guess the same engines as of today, made with common, replaceble, and easily accessible parts would need to be pulled on a tractor trailer behind your car.
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|FoldWithUs! | sighistNot at all - underneath the anti-maintenance covering is an engine made of common, replaceable and (once that covering is off) easily mantainable parts - after all, the car companies want to buy from a large component supplier pool to keep prices down.
'--8<------------------------ Ex Datis: Duncan Jones Merrion Computing Ltd
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Do you the "black box" car engine? I mean the engine that looks like a box which used now in modern cars. I just want to know what are the advantages of this engine compared with older "open" engines.
When they pull it from the charred, twisted remains of your wreck, they can detemine what caused the crash.
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Do you the "black box" car engine? I mean the engine that looks like a box which used now in modern cars. I just want to know what are the advantages of this engine compared with older "open" engines.
I'm not sure what you're talking about. Modern engines are quite similar to older engines. They have tighter tolerances, tend to use multi-port fuel injection and overhead cams. They use lighter, stronger materials and have pollution controls on them. Compared to an engine circa 1980, they are easier to maintain and more reliable. Compared to engines of the 50s, they are much more reliable. One big difference is the use of electronic ignition control versus mechanical. This allows the engine to tune itself to different conditions. One result is a lot more horsepower per displacement than in the past and better gas mileage. (Several years ago, I drove a 1972 Custom Cruiser station wagon for a while. I got between 8 and 11 miles per gallon. My 2001 Honda Odyssey is shorter, but holds the same number of people and gets 18-22 miles per gallon. Plus, I have 70,000 miles on the Honda and it still runs like a dream. The Custom Cruiser was a maintenance nightmare.)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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I'm not sure what you're talking about. Modern engines are quite similar to older engines. They have tighter tolerances, tend to use multi-port fuel injection and overhead cams. They use lighter, stronger materials and have pollution controls on them. Compared to an engine circa 1980, they are easier to maintain and more reliable. Compared to engines of the 50s, they are much more reliable. One big difference is the use of electronic ignition control versus mechanical. This allows the engine to tune itself to different conditions. One result is a lot more horsepower per displacement than in the past and better gas mileage. (Several years ago, I drove a 1972 Custom Cruiser station wagon for a while. I got between 8 and 11 miles per gallon. My 2001 Honda Odyssey is shorter, but holds the same number of people and gets 18-22 miles per gallon. Plus, I have 70,000 miles on the Honda and it still runs like a dream. The Custom Cruiser was a maintenance nightmare.)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
Great job on the explanation :)
Joe Woodbury wrote:
Several years ago, I drove a 1972 Custom Cruiser station wagon for a while. I got between 8 and 11 miles per gallon.
Heh...it would've been a pain to keep that one considering todays gas prices:laugh:. Although my Mom's '02 Jeep Grand Cherokee gets about the same mileage (about 8 towing a trailer and 16 while empty). Roswell
"Angelinos -- excuse me. There will be civility today."
Antonio VillaRaigosa
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I'm not sure what you're talking about. Modern engines are quite similar to older engines. They have tighter tolerances, tend to use multi-port fuel injection and overhead cams. They use lighter, stronger materials and have pollution controls on them. Compared to an engine circa 1980, they are easier to maintain and more reliable. Compared to engines of the 50s, they are much more reliable. One big difference is the use of electronic ignition control versus mechanical. This allows the engine to tune itself to different conditions. One result is a lot more horsepower per displacement than in the past and better gas mileage. (Several years ago, I drove a 1972 Custom Cruiser station wagon for a while. I got between 8 and 11 miles per gallon. My 2001 Honda Odyssey is shorter, but holds the same number of people and gets 18-22 miles per gallon. Plus, I have 70,000 miles on the Honda and it still runs like a dream. The Custom Cruiser was a maintenance nightmare.)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
Joe Woodbury wrote:
they are easier to maintain
Easier from whose point of view? There is practically nothing that the backyard mechanic can do to his own car anymore, except change the oil and maybe the air filter. If you call shelling out additional bucks to the dealer for stuff that you could once have done by yourself "easy," then I suppose you were correct.
-------------------------------- "All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke
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Joe Woodbury wrote:
they are easier to maintain
Easier from whose point of view? There is practically nothing that the backyard mechanic can do to his own car anymore, except change the oil and maybe the air filter. If you call shelling out additional bucks to the dealer for stuff that you could once have done by yourself "easy," then I suppose you were correct.
-------------------------------- "All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke
Richie308 wrote:
Easier from whose point of view? There is practically nothing that the backyard mechanic can do to his own car anymore, except change the oil and maybe the air filter.
That's the point. You no longer need to do the tedious maintenance of the past. Both my Honda engines are close to maintenance free. I've put 70,000 miles on my van with a small problem covered by warranty and oil and filter changes. I've put 40,000 on my Civic with only oil and filter changes. (As for the rest of both cars, in six years I've spent $500 on the van to fix a door and my daughter replaced the front pads for a car class at high school. My Civic, on the other hand, has been in four accidents--three at the hand of my oldest and one by me on black ice. Those aside, I spend about $800 to fix the a/c and the windshield wiper pump.) (Modern spark plugs, for example, can go for 100,000 miles!) By contrast, the older cars I've owned have required constant tinkering. If I didn't do some of it myself, I'd have gone broke having a mechanic do it. That aside, the notion that a backyard mechanic can't do anything is nonsense. You can do a lot of stuff. However, now that some of us have money, we find it's worth the opportunity cost to pay someone else to do it. (You want to change a head gasket? It's pretty much the same way you did it before.)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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Not at all - underneath the anti-maintenance covering is an engine made of common, replaceable and (once that covering is off) easily mantainable parts - after all, the car companies want to buy from a large component supplier pool to keep prices down.
'--8<------------------------ Ex Datis: Duncan Jones Merrion Computing Ltd
I rather think they worried about a 10 finger virus entering the engine :p
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Richie308 wrote:
Easier from whose point of view? There is practically nothing that the backyard mechanic can do to his own car anymore, except change the oil and maybe the air filter.
That's the point. You no longer need to do the tedious maintenance of the past. Both my Honda engines are close to maintenance free. I've put 70,000 miles on my van with a small problem covered by warranty and oil and filter changes. I've put 40,000 on my Civic with only oil and filter changes. (As for the rest of both cars, in six years I've spent $500 on the van to fix a door and my daughter replaced the front pads for a car class at high school. My Civic, on the other hand, has been in four accidents--three at the hand of my oldest and one by me on black ice. Those aside, I spend about $800 to fix the a/c and the windshield wiper pump.) (Modern spark plugs, for example, can go for 100,000 miles!) By contrast, the older cars I've owned have required constant tinkering. If I didn't do some of it myself, I'd have gone broke having a mechanic do it. That aside, the notion that a backyard mechanic can't do anything is nonsense. You can do a lot of stuff. However, now that some of us have money, we find it's worth the opportunity cost to pay someone else to do it. (You want to change a head gasket? It's pretty much the same way you did it before.)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
Hey A few people have said convenience etc etc. I though the sort of people who code for a living/fun would love to tinker and understand how things work. I love working on the car (from complete engine rebuilds to just replacing brakes). Old cars need constant tinkering becuase they are old. I much prefer the older engines as you can spot problems much easier without the black casings and so fix most problems without a visit to the dealer and hence a very light wallet. Fancy computers do make fault finding a lot quicker but thats half the fun. So to sum up the advantage of a black box engine is the dealer gets rich quicker. Dan
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Richie308 wrote:
Easier from whose point of view? There is practically nothing that the backyard mechanic can do to his own car anymore, except change the oil and maybe the air filter.
That's the point. You no longer need to do the tedious maintenance of the past. Both my Honda engines are close to maintenance free. I've put 70,000 miles on my van with a small problem covered by warranty and oil and filter changes. I've put 40,000 on my Civic with only oil and filter changes. (As for the rest of both cars, in six years I've spent $500 on the van to fix a door and my daughter replaced the front pads for a car class at high school. My Civic, on the other hand, has been in four accidents--three at the hand of my oldest and one by me on black ice. Those aside, I spend about $800 to fix the a/c and the windshield wiper pump.) (Modern spark plugs, for example, can go for 100,000 miles!) By contrast, the older cars I've owned have required constant tinkering. If I didn't do some of it myself, I'd have gone broke having a mechanic do it. That aside, the notion that a backyard mechanic can't do anything is nonsense. You can do a lot of stuff. However, now that some of us have money, we find it's worth the opportunity cost to pay someone else to do it. (You want to change a head gasket? It's pretty much the same way you did it before.)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
Joe Woodbury wrote:
You want to change a head gasket? It's pretty much the same way you did it before
well... I no longer change spark plugs, but otherwise everything is still the same. I used to do a tune up and timing, now with computer controlled and adapted everything, it's not worth the trouble, so now I would let someone else do the tune-up where I might have before. But then again.... A tune-up by me, would take probably 4 hours as it is not what I do regularly, If I work those 4 hours and take the car in to someone else, I make more than the cost of the paid maintenance. Once my job paid a little better, I took a much different view on maintenance. It's easier to do overtime and pay for the extra costs.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
