Programming advice...

[Mark e boy]

Haha well it's kind of a programming question, hope I don't get shouted at! I'm starting a new job as a programmer tomorrow. It's my first job out of university, and I'm worrying! Firstly, that I will be thrown in at the deep end with loads of code I don't understand. Secondly, that I'm not as good as I used to be at learning new things. With the first, I think this is inevitable, but from what I have seen so far, it's not the kind of environment where I will have much help from other people. It's more a case of me figuring things out on my own. Although this is inevitable, I'm worried that Im not quite at the stage to be able to work out exactly what is going on from an early stage. Another six months of exposure, and I would be At the same time I will hvae With the second, I'm not sure if it's because nowadays I'm dealing with different or more difficult technologies, for instance i've experimented with COM, CORBA, SOAP and a few other technologies, but haven't made serious progress with them. Traditionally, I have learnt things fairly easily. I remember picking up VB, C++, MFC, ASP & some other langauges fairly quickly. I used to get engrossed in new subjects and sit for hours trying to learn them, with some success. Nowadays, things don't go in easily. I still sit their for hours (maybe not with quite the same degree of motivation), but my slowdown in learning really bugs me. Do people think this is just because I'm working with more difficult stuff?? Any tips for learning programming, especially from moving from this nasty intermedate phase, through to someone who can be considered advanced. The most important issue for me is how to learn, rather than knowing specific technologies or API's well. I'm sure going to have a lot of exposure to C++, and just want to make the most out the oppurtunity. Thanks...

[Stefan Spenz]

Hi Mark, slow down, relax, they're not going to put you on serious tasks at the beginning, and most companys offer a extensive work-in-and-get-to-know-the-stuff phase.

[Mike Nordell]

Mark-e-boy wrote: but my slowdown in learning really bugs me. Do people think this is just because I'm working with more difficult stuff?? No. One of the greater contributing factors is age. The older you are the longer it takes to learn something new.

[Paul Watson]

Mark-e-boy wrote: Any tips for learning programming, especially from moving from this nasty intermedate phase, through to someone who can be considered advanced. Well, to be frank the only thing I know of to make that step is real experience. You can read and do tutorials and discuss and play, but to me experience in the real world with non-scripted non-tutorial situations is the only way. Even if it is your own personal project, you have to see the technology as a whole through a few projects before you really become a master at it (and even then you might not make it.) I just started VC++.NET yesterday and decided to jump in the deep end... so far I am more confused than anything else, but I have already leartn a valuable lesson or two :) As for your other dilema: We have all been thrown in the deep end and we all managed to swim (some managed to end up doing Olympic water gymnastics it seems ;) .) If we hadn't we wouldn't be here but probably rather playing golf with the other accountants/doctors/engineers. Best advice is to be confident, don't be afraid to ask seemingly silly questions and work hard. Even if you fall on your face your employee should recognise your effort and figure out something for you. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love, and to be loved in return - Moulin Rouge Tim Smith wrote: Over here in the third world of humor (a.k.a. BBC America), peterchen wrote: We should petition microsoft to a "target=_Paul" attribute.

[Tim Smith]

Until they come out with new drugs to jump start that process. We could see huge advancements in this area over the next 20 years. We already understand most of the basics. :) Tim Smith I know what you're thinking punk, you're thinking did he spell check this document? Well, to tell you the truth I kinda forgot myself in all this excitement. But being this here's CodeProject, the most powerful forums in the world and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question, Do I feel lucky? Well do ya punk?

[Gary Wheeler]

Welcome to the (not so) real world. When I was first out of school, I was afraid of looking stupid, so I didn't ask questions when I should have. The best advice I can give you is:

ASK STUPID QUESTIONS!

You'll find out that asking questions in the beginning is a lot cheaper than ripping out stuff and redoing it later. I remember a time <insert senile war story here>... :-D

---

"Think of it as evolution in action." - 'Oath of Fealty' by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle

[James Spibey]

Hi Mark, I was in the same situation as you about three years ago and I found the three most important things to remember are:- 1) As someone else said, don't be afraid to ask stupid questions. Just find someone who might know the answer and pester them until they tell it to you. You might think that you are hassling these people (which you are) but they would rather you ask questions than go off on your own and get it wrong. 2) Don't be afraid to make mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes - I still do now, but make sure you learn from them. 3) If you can't meet a deadline or are having serious problems, don't hide it because the chances are when the deadline comes around and you've been unable to complete, it'll be 10 times worse because you didn't tell anyone about it. But above all, have fun. These first couple of years are both the easiest and the hardest you'll ever have. Easiest in that your level of responsibility will be quite low, as will be your workload. But it will be difficult due to the change in culture from being at university to being in a pressured work environment and the amount of stuff you will need to learn. Trust me when I say that around 99% of the stuff you learnt in university was useless and you'll never use it again. Cheers

[David Chamberlain]

Mark, First, congratulations on finishing your university education. That, in itself, is a terrific accomplishment. Second, with most of the "new" folks I have ever seen get hired, after a couple of months when people ask how the job is going, the response is typically something like "well, it's not too bad. I haven't really done anything yet. They have just given me a bunch of books and manuals to read and a lot of code to look at. They haven't really told me to do anything yet." Primarily the reason for this is not the capability of the new employee, but the organization that is trying to incorporate the new employee. Not only will they not expect you to hit the ground running, especially just out of university, but they don't know yet how much they can rely on you. Of course, not knowing what kind of job you are getting into, after about 6 months or a year, your first real performance review is going to consist of 2 things. One is what you have learned and how you have progressed, and the second is what you have done for them. If you end up learning 10 new languages, understand the entire philosophy, structure, style, performance, and detail of ALL of their code, that is great!! But, what have you done for them? They will be looking for you to make a contribution, and through every task that you are given, you should think to yourself how it is that you are are going to contribute. When you can gain personal insight and knowledge AND make a contribution to the company, then you will become a valued employee. Good luck. Dave "You can say that again." -- Dept. of Redundancy Dept.

[Stan Shannon]

Mike Nordell wrote: No. One of the greater contributing factors is age. The older you are the longer it takes to learn something new. That's B.S. Anyone who stays mentally active and healthy should experience little decline in mental abilities during adulthood until extreme old age. Motivation is the key, not age. Thinking and learning are hard work, most people want to get by on what they have invested so much time and effort in learning and just get lazy about leraning new stuff. The brain is like any other organ, the more you use it, the healthier it remains. :rose: "There's a slew of slip 'twixt cup and lip"

[Nick Parker]

Welcome Mark, I say that as you enter this mystified world of software development. I think I had the same feelings that you did a little more than a year ago. I think for the first full week last summer I spent most of my time reading. In fact, I spent a lot of time reading, even when I wasn't at work, really just trying to understand what I was going to be working on. A few words of advice might follow as such: 1. When it does work right (and it won't :)) start at the very top or beginning and look for the most idiotic reason first. The mistakes typically happen when you think you have everything worked out. 2. Comment your code. It's funny because professors are always preaching this to us, however most people forgo this and it can make things very difficult in the long run. You will be working on applications that are much larger than you ever did in school, this is a must. 3. Read a lot. It always seems like there is a never-ending source of information for our field out there, just waiting for you to consume. Take this site for example, allows all members to write articles on all areas of software development to share with fellow people of similar interest. Keep this in mind and remember to write an article or two when you learn something that you would like to share with the rest of the class.....emm I mean world now. Nick Parker

[Ed Gadziemski]

When you're fresh out of university, you have just been exposed to a tremendous amount of information. Your brain is still processing the old stuff; that may be why you feel you're not learning the new stuff as quickly. Also, your brain may be rebelling against the overload. It's thinking to itself, hmmm, why should I bother to learn anything new when I'm not even using this other knowledge. Once you get on the job, pick a couple of things to focus on and get in-depth exposure to instead of trying to learn twenty new things at once. You'll do fine and your confidence will build each day.

[Matt Gullett]

First, Congratulations on the new job. I hope you enjoy it. You are right in that you will most likely not understand the code initally. This is normal, just be prepared to learn. The one piece of advice I would give as far as learning the code is this: Find out from the people who use the product what it does, how it works (to the user) and how they use it. This will make figuring out the code MUCH easier since you will have a base to start from. Also, I have found that this makes it easier to get started since you won't be wasting alot of time reading code that is insignifigant (relatively) to the overall product. (In other words, get the big picture first, then figure out the details.) One other piece of advice (someone else mentioned this) is try and set reasonable expectations as to what you can do and when. Initally this will be difficult since you won't know all the various parts to give good time estimates. Mark-e-boy wrote: Traditionally, I have learnt things fairly easily. I have found that the fastest way to learn these kind of things is through practical application. It is much easier to figure out SOAP (or COM or sockets, etc.) when you have an application that needs it than when you have to contrive some use for it. Good luck.

[Daniel Ferguson]

Stan Shannon wrote: The brain is like any other organ, the more you use it, the healthier it remains. So when I drink a lot, I'm just excercising my liver? :rolleyes: "The laws of nature, the laws of man This volatile paradox will never stand" -Plasticity, Front Line Assembly