Data Modeling in Visio
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Found this article today: Data Modeling in Microsoft Visio[^] Any first hand experience? Is Visio really a convenient database modeling tool?
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Found this article today: Data Modeling in Microsoft Visio[^] Any first hand experience? Is Visio really a convenient database modeling tool?
No. I tried it once and it was so cumbersome that I quickly gave up and went back to pencil and paper - so much more convenient. Visio's a great tool for diagramming, but MS is so desperate to add new features each release that they keep shoehorning features in that hide its core purpose - creating diagrams.
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
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No. I tried it once and it was so cumbersome that I quickly gave up and went back to pencil and paper - so much more convenient. Visio's a great tool for diagramming, but MS is so desperate to add new features each release that they keep shoehorning features in that hide its core purpose - creating diagrams.
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
I agree with you. I like visio as a diagramming tool - but I don't record the additional information that is needed. e.g. It can hold information about column types, and descriptions and so on. But that is such a pain to enter - and it seems to decide that I want to use Access datatypes which is the last thing I want. I normally rough out the diagram on paper or whiteboard first then use visio as a documenting tool rather than a designing tool.
Upcoming events: * Glasgow: Mock Objects, SQL Server CLR Integration, Reporting Services, db4o, Dependency Injection with Spring ... "I wouldn't say boo to a goose. I'm not a coward, I just realise that it would be largely pointless." My website
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Found this article today: Data Modeling in Microsoft Visio[^] Any first hand experience? Is Visio really a convenient database modeling tool?
Visio is fantastic for diagramming/documenting an existing database - that's primarily what I use it for. Automatically suck the DB schema into Visio then shuffle around to make it look good!!
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Found this article today: Data Modeling in Microsoft Visio[^] Any first hand experience? Is Visio really a convenient database modeling tool?
Visio is a "drawing software", without any constraints. This means that you can basically design all kinds of diagrams in Visio. However, there is one main flaw: Visio does not support you as it should. There are not enough constraints on what is a valid diagram for a certain diagram type, and not enough logic to help in makeing elementary decisions. Trying to help out: I have used a tool called "DB Designer" which was quite impressive, but I cannot find the link anymore.
Cheers, Sebastian -- "If it was two men, the non-driver would have challenged the driver to simply crash through the gates. The macho image thing, you know." - Marc Clifton
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Found this article today: Data Modeling in Microsoft Visio[^] Any first hand experience? Is Visio really a convenient database modeling tool?
The Wizard of Doze wrote:
Any first hand experience? Is Visio really a convenient database modeling tool?
I used to use it a lot for DB modeling, but then I needed a tool that let me create more than just the concrete tables, but views as well, not to mention other information useful for ORM/automatic SQL generation, like calculated fields. So, like most things, when you want to move past the typical way of doing things, you find that the tools provided don't cut it anymore, and you end up trying to extend the tool (Visio is quite extensible, but I didn't go that route in this case) or writing your own (which is what I did, but not a Visio thing), or struggling along with some hybrid of a tool and manual editing (which is not what I wanted to do). So, there's basically 4 tiers of design: 1. Not using a tool and not understanding the usefulness of one 2. Simulating the tool with pen and paper (very efficient, flexible, and portable) 3. Using a tool (the nerdy excitement of using technology to create technology, drooling over your first reverse engineered diagrams, etc) 4. Not using a tool because you're working in a paradigm that has abstracted the design of applications to the point where there aren't tools available. Regarding #4, Workflow Foundation is an excellent example. I've been using document and execution workflows for 10 years, but the tool support has been terrible. Sure, I could flowchart workflows, but a tool that's integrated with the IDE and the code base? Didn't exist, AFAIK. Marc
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I agree with you. I like visio as a diagramming tool - but I don't record the additional information that is needed. e.g. It can hold information about column types, and descriptions and so on. But that is such a pain to enter - and it seems to decide that I want to use Access datatypes which is the last thing I want. I normally rough out the diagram on paper or whiteboard first then use visio as a documenting tool rather than a designing tool.
Upcoming events: * Glasgow: Mock Objects, SQL Server CLR Integration, Reporting Services, db4o, Dependency Injection with Spring ... "I wouldn't say boo to a goose. I'm not a coward, I just realise that it would be largely pointless." My website
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
I normally rough out the diagram on paper or whiteboard first
Whiteboards are great for that, and often overlooked for some reason. I have a couple of A3 whiteboards under my desk that I pull out and use for that kind of diagramming. It is so much easier to work with than paper, and you can easily move it onto paper or computer when you are done. The problem with using Visio for the initial diagramming is that it is just too much of a mental process to commit to screen easily. You need to be able to scribble and draw lines and make adjustments without having to constantly fight with the software. Visio: great for presentation, crap for thinking.
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk -
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
I normally rough out the diagram on paper or whiteboard first
Whiteboards are great for that, and often overlooked for some reason. I have a couple of A3 whiteboards under my desk that I pull out and use for that kind of diagramming. It is so much easier to work with than paper, and you can easily move it onto paper or computer when you are done. The problem with using Visio for the initial diagramming is that it is just too much of a mental process to commit to screen easily. You need to be able to scribble and draw lines and make adjustments without having to constantly fight with the software. Visio: great for presentation, crap for thinking.
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milkDavid Wulff wrote:
Visio: great for presentation, crap for thinking.
I wonder if that one ever came up during their marketing campaign meetings.
BW
Quick to judge, quick to anger, slow to understand.
Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand.
-- Neil Peart -
Found this article today: Data Modeling in Microsoft Visio[^] Any first hand experience? Is Visio really a convenient database modeling tool?
Just get Dia for windows. Nice and free.
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Found this article today: Data Modeling in Microsoft Visio[^] Any first hand experience? Is Visio really a convenient database modeling tool?
The Wizard of Doze wrote:
Is Visio really a convenient database modeling tool?
heh. From the page's "Model Validation" section:
"Before generating you need to validate the model. Visio will find all sorts of frustrating errors, some of them legit, some of them not. Perform the error check from Database -> Model -> Error Check. Errors will be displayed in the Output pane which will become visible after the check. You can double click on the error and sometimes Visio will take you to the problem."
Translation: It's bleeding useless. One of the two main reasons for using an app to do such diagrams, rather than use pencil and paper, is that it saves you the time and effort of checking references and finding cross-diagram inconsistencies. I use several tools for modelling dBs and processes, none of which are Visio. Mainly, I use the tiny, tiny old version of Select SSADM (which fits on a floppy disc, runs like sh1t off a shovel, and performs cross-diagram checks), or the slightly larger Select Enterprise, depending on which diagram types I need. If you want pretty colours, bells, whistles, etc. (rather than just having an effective and efficiently produced set of diagrams that you can use, and not just stick up on the wall to look pretty), there are several Eclipse plug-ins, and a google search on <"uml diagrams" draw generate> will throw up plenty of apps that fit the bill.