21st Century Socialism
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:confused: I didn't write that I'm just wondering where I condemned my government in its entirety. I'll be waiting...
YOu posted it. Every word out of your mouth is a condemnation of everything about our society. You hate the administration, you hate corporations, you hate suv driving suburbinites. Yet you consider yourself representative of the mainstream. Amazing.
Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority.
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Red Stateler wrote:
Why not?
Because the Holy See says so! Don't question your government, question your Church? You are everything that's wrongwith the American Catholic Church.
Red Stateler wrote:
You're a socialist...Something the Catholic Church vehemently opposes.
Really, I'm a Socialist? News to me, but I'd like for you to show me which encyclical was more recent, the one about Socialism or the one about the Death Penalty. Which does the Church hate more, murder or Socialism?
Red Stateler wrote:
That's really cute how you think you have the ability to determine God's judgement.
I don't, but I can hazard a pretty good guess at how He likes prisoners to be treated, and I doubt He's real into torture. What do you think? Do you think He'll listen to the subtleties about stress positions and waterboarding? God's never really been a "letter of the law" kinda guy. He's more about the spirit of things. Good luck, though, let me know how it all goes :)
Red Stateler wrote:
Charity, according the the Christian ethic, MUST be voluntary.
You're the one calling social programs "charity". All I want is to make sure no one starves in the street over your bullshit ideals. However, I'm sure you give so much to charity that I shouldn't be worried. You still haven't explained how I want the government to say Mass. Care to explain that? Never mind, you're a cafeteria Catholic and Mass probably wasn't on your tray this week.
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
Because the Holy See says so! Don't question your government, question your Church? You are everything that's wrongwith the American Catholic Church.
Where did I say I don't question my government. I specifically said all Americans do. I'm criticizing the content of your criticisms, which are faulty.
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
Really, I'm a Socialist? News to me, but I'd like for you to show me which encyclical was more recent, the one about Socialism or the one about the Death Penalty. Which does the Church hate more, murder or Socialism?
I'm not going to hide my opinions behind the Catholic Church. I'm not a huge advocate for or against the death penalty. I think it's a political decision vested with the people, and I have no problem either way. But since the Pope actively fought communists, but didn't make a huge deal about America's death penalty, I'd suspect it despises socialism more.
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
I don't, but I can hazard a pretty good guess at how He likes prisoners to be treated, and I doubt He's real into torture. What do you think? Do you think He'll listen to the subtleties about stress positions and waterboarding? God's never really been a "letter of the law" kinda guy. He's more about the spirit of things. Good luck, though, let me know how it all goes
Bush tortured people? Really?
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
You're the one calling social programs "charity". All I want is to make sure no one starves in the street over your bullsh*t ideals. However, I'm sure you give so much to charity that I shouldn't be worried.
FYI, temperance is a cardinal virtue according to the Church. Did you decide to leave that off your tray this week? But yes, socialism is most definately a substitute for charity as it feeds the hungry and clothes the poor. I thought that's what Christian charity did. Hmmmmm...Well I guess the state should do that.
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
You still haven't explained how I want the government to say Mass. Care to explain that?
That's the point. Socialism strives to displace (do you know what that word means?) religion. It therefore has no need to conduct mass of any sort. And that is why it is so despised by the Catholic Church.
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Red Stateler wrote:
Fire departments and toll roads are not "social programs". They are "public services"
Very selective of you. So if you can't afford to put a fire out yourself, your government steps in and does it for you? Get off the government teat!
Red Stateler wrote:
What on earth are you talking about? They are not.
You work for the government, Redster! Unless you held a bake sale, your paycheck is all tax money redistributed to your pocket.
Red Stateler wrote:
Again...What on earth are you talking about? How is my paycheck "charity"? And where did I call a majority of Americans "uncharitable"?
Your paycheck is charity because I and other Americans are nice enough to let you continue having it. The majority of Americans identify as Democrats. You do the rest I am getting tired of doing your job for you.
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
Very selective of you. So if you can't afford to put a fire out yourself, your government steps in and does it for you? Get off the government teat!
Again, that is not a "social program". A social program redistributes goods and services from one group to another in the interest of achieving social equity. A fire department most certainly does not do that.
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
You work for the government, Redster! Unless you held a bake sale, your paycheck is all tax money redistributed to your pocket.
Oh, I see. Once again you don't actually check your sources for veracity. But judging from your past claims, I'm not surprised. I hate to break this to you, but my pay is not funded by taxation. Sorry.
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
Your paycheck is charity because I and other Americans are nice enough to let you continue having it. The majority of Americans identify as Democrats. You do the rest I am getting tired of doing your job for you.
Wrong. A slightly higher number of people identify themselves as Democrats as compared to Republicans. It is not a "majority". It is (last I checked) roughly 36% of the population. Again...Sorry to burst your bubble.
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
But you'd rather spend time defending a South American Marxist who confiscates property from corporations and who is willing to throw anyone out of the country who disagrees with him and who has suspended his own country's constituition, instead of doing something that proves your "love".
My life as an American consists of more than just this forum. The fact that you don't think yours does is more telling than you think. Post your way to loyalty, Internet American!
Mike Gaskey wrote:
As a constituitional authority I am certain you have page after page of such shitting.
Patriot Act, illegal wiretapping, Git'mo, etc. Come on, don't try this burden of proof thing, we all know Bush has shat on the Constitution.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
How is life in your section 8 housing? I hear they have very few cul-de-sacs there.
Ha ha, wanna compare W-4s sometime? I stayed in the city because I could afford to. I didn't have to live in the boonies to secure the lifestyle I wanted. Sorry you live in a cultural wasteland, but the meth your neighbors are cooking up should keep your kids entertained.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
Fall? The last time I checked, this fallen country:
Man, what was I thinking? America is better than ever! I only wish we could elect Bush for a third term, assuming I'm not in jail for posting this message!
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
My life as an American consists of more than just this forum. The fact that you don't think yours does is more telling than you think.
you'd have to read what I said with your head up your ass to make this statement.
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
Patriot Act, illegal wiretapping, Git'mo, etc.
all legal and constituitional.
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
wanna compare W-4s sometime?
1099 and schedule A, not w-4
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
America is better than ever!
finally you've said something factual.
Mike The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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IamChrisMcCall wrote:
I don't know, why don't you ask them at your next meeting?
So that's your response? You spout rhetoric that basically describes neo-Nazis as superior Americans and, when challenged, you call me a neo-Nazi? That sheds a lot of light on just how brainwashed you are.
In response to your own rhetoric that somehow nazis are representative of dissenters. Laughable at best. Pot calling the kettle black here?
This statement was never false.
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IamChrisMcCall wrote:
Well then I'm glad there's no objective source for the quality of opinions and all discourse is afforded the right to exist! See my point yet?
There is an objective source. It can be found in the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Federalist Papers, the various state constitutions and countless other documents. If you advocate the destruction of our constitution, then you are an enemy of the state...A traitor. Your politics do just that. I'm sure you'll deny it, but then you'll have to adjust your argument for the fact that you just accused our own president of tyranny (while he's simply exercising the constitutional authority vested with him) while defending a Marxist dictator.
The declaration also says its our duty to revolutionize and overthrow the government and return the power to the people. Good luck calling dissent traitorous.
This statement was never false.
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In response to your own rhetoric that somehow nazis are representative of dissenters. Laughable at best. Pot calling the kettle black here?
This statement was never false.
Chris-Kaiser wrote:
In response to your own rhetoric that somehow nazis are representative of dissenters. Laughable at best.
I didn't say that (obviously). I said Nazis are one form of dissenters. IAm claimed that dissent in general is what qualifies a good American. So then if we have a good system and bad dissenters, then those dissenters are suddenly qualified as good. I gave him an opportunity to change what he said, but he only reinforced it.
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The declaration also says its our duty to revolutionize and overthrow the government and return the power to the people. Good luck calling dissent traitorous.
This statement was never false.
Chris-Kaiser wrote:
The declaration also says its our duty to revolutionize and overthrow the government and return the power to the people. Good luck calling dissent traitorous.
And having that position certainly isn't a bad thing if the government suddenly becomes tyrannical. But IAm is advocating the virtues of a communist despotic regime over our own democratically elected government. He hides that treacherousness behind the notion that "dissent is always good". I'm sure he would change his mind if Chavez were dictator of the US.
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IamChrisMcCall wrote:
http://www.halliburton.com/\[^\] Just one?
Thats what I thought. You consider any profit at all by corporate America to be "welfare". The truth is that it is unfortunate that corporations are taxed at all.
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
McCarthy
My hero.
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
You and your ilk have earned yourselves a place outside in the cold while normal, rational, peace-loving Americans decide the future of our country.
Doesn't mean we're wrong. But I do find it amusing that on the one hand you condemn mainstream American society and than prattle on about 'normal, rational, peace-loving Americans'. Well, which is it? Are the fat, depressed suburbinites also your peace-loving Americans? If not, who are they? Or are all fat, depressed SUV driving cul de sac living suburbinites "marginalized more than even a Communist in American politics"? Just curious.
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
Hit a little close to home, huh? Don't worry, I'm sure your fat, boring wife and kids will prattle on about whatever's on the boob tube tonight loud enough to cover up the sounds of you jacking it to internet porn to make the hurt go away. I like how you identify with the rural lifestyle. Whatever keeps you from the realization that you're trapped in no-man's land, with a big-box department store the closest thing to culture in your safe, soulless boring suburban development (which is still riddled with drugs and violence, all just hidden safely behind the well-trimmed hedges you pay illegal Mexicans to maintain). Hey cowboy, how many horses do you own? Do you even know how to rope or ride? Ever wrestle calves or break the ice off of a cow tank? Of course not, you identify with hard-working rural Americans by driving the same kind of vehicle! How else are you going to pick up that side-by-side SubZero fridge from Home Depot? Renting a truck is for commies and city-slickers! You're out of your league, here, armchair cowboy. I am more urban and more rural than you'll ever be, all at the same time!
Yeah, I'm real intimidated, candy ass. The funny thing about all that is that I was born on a farm in Washita county Oklahoma, the grandson of four Sooners who had migrated as children from their pioneer ranchs in Texas. As such, I am well aware (as you apparently ar
Stan Shannon wrote:
Thats what I thought. You consider any profit at all by corporate America to be "welfare".
First off, "welfare" is your term. Stop putting it in quotes. Secondly, I consider any war profiteering to be "welfare". You thought I brought up Halliburton just because it was any ol' company?
Stan Shannon wrote:
Yeah, I'm real intimidated, candy ass.
I don't care if you're intimidated. What grown adult tries to intimidate another over the internet?
Stan Shannon wrote:
and if you want to find out what league I'm in, I'm in the phone book.
Oh, right, that kind of adult. ;) Thanks for your little story of how some people in your family used to be able to ranch or something. Too bad you didn't carry on in any authentic way. I know how to rope and ride because that's how we did branding on the working ranch I lived on. Please, fill me in on the ways of rural living. Maybe your great-great-grandfather (the last of your rotten seed to live off the land) told a story some time while you were in earshot! :laugh: How many head of cattle on the Shannon ranch? And no, your fat family members don't count! :laugh: Listen, boy, don't try to tell me about rural life from behind your 400 channels of satellite TV and squeaky-clean pickup truck. I have fed cattle in 50 degrees below zero, in order to get food for myself. I told you, son, you are outclassed. By a wine-and-cheese pussy-ass faggot liberal, too! Extra embarassing for you! Not only am I more at home in the streets than you are, I can out-country you too! :laugh: You've never met a poor man who was much of a roper? You want to? I know plenty and they'd love to hear all about how they're full of shit.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Just curious.
Even SUV-driving douchebags get one thing right every once in a while :)
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Chris-Kaiser wrote:
The declaration also says its our duty to revolutionize and overthrow the government and return the power to the people. Good luck calling dissent traitorous.
And having that position certainly isn't a bad thing if the government suddenly becomes tyrannical. But IAm is advocating the virtues of a communist despotic regime over our own democratically elected government. He hides that treacherousness behind the notion that "dissent is always good". I'm sure he would change his mind if Chavez were dictator of the US.
Red Stateler wrote:
But IAm is advocating the virtues of a communist despotic regime over our own democratically elected government.
Heh, I read that at first without the "is" after the IAm...
This statement was never false.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
Thats what I thought. You consider any profit at all by corporate America to be "welfare".
First off, "welfare" is your term. Stop putting it in quotes. Secondly, I consider any war profiteering to be "welfare". You thought I brought up Halliburton just because it was any ol' company?
Stan Shannon wrote:
Yeah, I'm real intimidated, candy ass.
I don't care if you're intimidated. What grown adult tries to intimidate another over the internet?
Stan Shannon wrote:
and if you want to find out what league I'm in, I'm in the phone book.
Oh, right, that kind of adult. ;) Thanks for your little story of how some people in your family used to be able to ranch or something. Too bad you didn't carry on in any authentic way. I know how to rope and ride because that's how we did branding on the working ranch I lived on. Please, fill me in on the ways of rural living. Maybe your great-great-grandfather (the last of your rotten seed to live off the land) told a story some time while you were in earshot! :laugh: How many head of cattle on the Shannon ranch? And no, your fat family members don't count! :laugh: Listen, boy, don't try to tell me about rural life from behind your 400 channels of satellite TV and squeaky-clean pickup truck. I have fed cattle in 50 degrees below zero, in order to get food for myself. I told you, son, you are outclassed. By a wine-and-cheese pussy-ass faggot liberal, too! Extra embarassing for you! Not only am I more at home in the streets than you are, I can out-country you too! :laugh: You've never met a poor man who was much of a roper? You want to? I know plenty and they'd love to hear all about how they're full of shit.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Just curious.
Even SUV-driving douchebags get one thing right every once in a while :)
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
I told you, son, you are outclassed. By a wine-and-cheese p***-a** f***** liberal, too! Extra embarassing for you!
I censored that out for you because I know that you didn't mean to post that. As a Catholic, I'm sure you condemn rage and pride, but advocate temperance...
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IamChrisMcCall wrote:
Very selective of you. So if you can't afford to put a fire out yourself, your government steps in and does it for you? Get off the government teat!
Again, that is not a "social program". A social program redistributes goods and services from one group to another in the interest of achieving social equity. A fire department most certainly does not do that.
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
You work for the government, Redster! Unless you held a bake sale, your paycheck is all tax money redistributed to your pocket.
Oh, I see. Once again you don't actually check your sources for veracity. But judging from your past claims, I'm not surprised. I hate to break this to you, but my pay is not funded by taxation. Sorry.
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
Your paycheck is charity because I and other Americans are nice enough to let you continue having it. The majority of Americans identify as Democrats. You do the rest I am getting tired of doing your job for you.
Wrong. A slightly higher number of people identify themselves as Democrats as compared to Republicans. It is not a "majority". It is (last I checked) roughly 36% of the population. Again...Sorry to burst your bubble.
Red Stateler wrote:
Again, that is not a "social program". A social program redistributes goods and services from one group to another in the interest of achieving social equity. A fire department most certainly does not do that.
Sure they do.
Red Stateler wrote:
my pay is not funded by taxation. Sorry.
You work for the Post Office? :laugh:
Red Stateler wrote:
It is not a "majority". It is (last I checked) roughly 36% of the population. Again...Sorry to burst your bubble.
Aww, wookit who doesn't know what a majority means... :(
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Stan Shannon wrote:
Thats what I thought. You consider any profit at all by corporate America to be "welfare".
First off, "welfare" is your term. Stop putting it in quotes. Secondly, I consider any war profiteering to be "welfare". You thought I brought up Halliburton just because it was any ol' company?
Stan Shannon wrote:
Yeah, I'm real intimidated, candy ass.
I don't care if you're intimidated. What grown adult tries to intimidate another over the internet?
Stan Shannon wrote:
and if you want to find out what league I'm in, I'm in the phone book.
Oh, right, that kind of adult. ;) Thanks for your little story of how some people in your family used to be able to ranch or something. Too bad you didn't carry on in any authentic way. I know how to rope and ride because that's how we did branding on the working ranch I lived on. Please, fill me in on the ways of rural living. Maybe your great-great-grandfather (the last of your rotten seed to live off the land) told a story some time while you were in earshot! :laugh: How many head of cattle on the Shannon ranch? And no, your fat family members don't count! :laugh: Listen, boy, don't try to tell me about rural life from behind your 400 channels of satellite TV and squeaky-clean pickup truck. I have fed cattle in 50 degrees below zero, in order to get food for myself. I told you, son, you are outclassed. By a wine-and-cheese pussy-ass faggot liberal, too! Extra embarassing for you! Not only am I more at home in the streets than you are, I can out-country you too! :laugh: You've never met a poor man who was much of a roper? You want to? I know plenty and they'd love to hear all about how they're full of shit.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Just curious.
Even SUV-driving douchebags get one thing right every once in a while :)
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
Thanks for your little story of how some people in your family used to be able to ranch or something. Too bad you didn't carry on in any authentic way. I know how to rope and ride because that's how we did branding on the working ranch I lived on. Please, fill me in on the ways of rural living. Maybe your great-great-grandfather (the last of your rotten seed to live off the land) told a story some time while you were in earshot! How many head of cattle on the Shannon ranch? And no, your fat family members don't count! Listen, boy, don't try to tell me about rural life from behind your 400 channels of satellite TV and squeaky-clean pickup truck. I have fed cattle in 50 degrees below zero, in order to get food for myself. I told you, son, you are outclassed. By a wine-and-cheese pussy-ass faggot liberal, too! Extra embarassing for you! Not only am I more at home in the streets than you are, I can out-country you too! You've never met a poor man who was much of a roper? You want to? I know plenty and they'd love to hear all about how they're full of sh*t.
Just as I thought. You're the same kind of hypocritical rich kid I grew up around who pretended to be tough because their dad owned a little more farm land then my Dad did. Well, you're right. My dad sold all his horses during the great depression and the dust bowl so he could feed my older siblings. I'm sure that makes you feel better, you being so concerned for the poor and all. And you can introduce me to all the poor folks you know out on your ranch. I'm probably kin to most of them.
Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority.
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IamChrisMcCall wrote:
Thanks for your little story of how some people in your family used to be able to ranch or something. Too bad you didn't carry on in any authentic way. I know how to rope and ride because that's how we did branding on the working ranch I lived on. Please, fill me in on the ways of rural living. Maybe your great-great-grandfather (the last of your rotten seed to live off the land) told a story some time while you were in earshot! How many head of cattle on the Shannon ranch? And no, your fat family members don't count! Listen, boy, don't try to tell me about rural life from behind your 400 channels of satellite TV and squeaky-clean pickup truck. I have fed cattle in 50 degrees below zero, in order to get food for myself. I told you, son, you are outclassed. By a wine-and-cheese pussy-ass faggot liberal, too! Extra embarassing for you! Not only am I more at home in the streets than you are, I can out-country you too! You've never met a poor man who was much of a roper? You want to? I know plenty and they'd love to hear all about how they're full of sh*t.
Just as I thought. You're the same kind of hypocritical rich kid I grew up around who pretended to be tough because their dad owned a little more farm land then my Dad did. Well, you're right. My dad sold all his horses during the great depression and the dust bowl so he could feed my older siblings. I'm sure that makes you feel better, you being so concerned for the poor and all. And you can introduce me to all the poor folks you know out on your ranch. I'm probably kin to most of them.
Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority.
Stan Shannon wrote:
hypocritical rich kid
I highly doubt that. He has bragged about how he makes enormous sums of money as a contractor. In my experience, people who are comfortable with money are generally less excited about it and people who don't have it are more apt to brag that they do. He's a fresh-out-of-college Marxist reminiscing about camp.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
hypocritical rich kid
I highly doubt that. He has bragged about how he makes enormous sums of money as a contractor. In my experience, people who are comfortable with money are generally less excited about it and people who don't have it are more apt to brag that they do. He's a fresh-out-of-college Marxist reminiscing about camp.
Thats actually my read also. I just like egging him own. Next he'll be telling me how he personally saved the ol' ranch house from a stampede or something and than got down with the hood in the streets of New York. What a guy! :laugh: I can tell from the way he talks that he knows sqat about cow county. I don't claim to be much of a farm hand, the truth is I hate farm work, but at least I know the culture and he sure as hell doesn't reflect any of it.
Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority.
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IamChrisMcCall wrote:
My life as an American consists of more than just this forum. The fact that you don't think yours does is more telling than you think.
you'd have to read what I said with your head up your ass to make this statement.
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
Patriot Act, illegal wiretapping, Git'mo, etc.
all legal and constituitional.
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
wanna compare W-4s sometime?
1099 and schedule A, not w-4
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
America is better than ever!
finally you've said something factual.
Mike The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
Patriot Act, illegal wiretapping, Git'mo, etc.
all legal and constituitional.
I'm always curious why conservatives consider this a closed issue. It is not, not by a long shot. It goes the other direction, too, that it's not clear it IS a violation of the law. Yet prudence would seem to air on the side of caution, rather than running roughshod over people's rights. Also, if Gitmo is legal.. why not just shoot every one of them and be done with it? Why bother with the farce of a trial to begin with? If they're not uniformed combatants so the Geneva Conventions don't apply, and if they aren't entitled to human rights, why not just shoot them and save ourselves the trouble? I'm really not trying to troll with that question. I really wonder the answer.
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IamChrisMcCall wrote:
Humility and liberalism are both halmarks of Catholic thinking. Of course, you're so out-of-step with Rome you probably forgot.
Liberalism advocates Godless government in lieu of Catholicism (or any other religion). Pope John Paul, before he died, expressed concern that the EU's increasingly liberal government would soon legislate the Vatican out of existence. I hardly think think John Paul considered that to be a "hallmark of Catholic thinking".
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
When Bush walks on civil liberties, it's patriotic. Even when he does it in someone else's country!
What are "civil liberties" to you? Anything that offends the liberal ethic? If so, I certainly hope he takes the time to take a dump while he tramples on them.
Red Stateler wrote:
Liberalism advocates Godless government in lieu of Catholicism (or any other religion).
I have noticed a very concerted effort by the political right in the past 10 years or so to redefine the word that way; I'm not really sure I understand why. It seems to make more sense to choose your own word to describe "adherents to socialist principles" rather than hijack a word that means something very different. The real definition, and the one to which I subscribe, is this one[^]. Namely,
Broadly speaking, Liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity. A liberal society is characterized by freedom of thought for individuals, limitations on power, the rule of law, the free exchange of ideas, a market economy, free private enterprise, and a transparent system of government in which the rights of all citizens are protected.[2] In the 21st century, this usually means liberal democracy with open and fair elections, where all citizens have equal rights by law.
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Red Stateler wrote:
Liberalism advocates Godless government in lieu of Catholicism (or any other religion).
I have noticed a very concerted effort by the political right in the past 10 years or so to redefine the word that way; I'm not really sure I understand why. It seems to make more sense to choose your own word to describe "adherents to socialist principles" rather than hijack a word that means something very different. The real definition, and the one to which I subscribe, is this one[^]. Namely,
Broadly speaking, Liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity. A liberal society is characterized by freedom of thought for individuals, limitations on power, the rule of law, the free exchange of ideas, a market economy, free private enterprise, and a transparent system of government in which the rights of all citizens are protected.[2] In the 21st century, this usually means liberal democracy with open and fair elections, where all citizens have equal rights by law.
That's closer to classical liberalism, which is basically modern conservatism. Mondern liberalism is based in Marxism. There's no point confusing the terms when you know what they mean.
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President Hugo Chavez said Sunday that foreigners who publicly criticize him or
his government while visiting Venezuela will be expelled from the country.Chavez ordered officials to closely monitor statements made by international figures
during their visits to Venezuela — and deport any outspoken critics."How long are we going to allow a person — from any country in the world — to come to
our own house to say there's a dictatorship here, that the president is a tyrant, and
nobody does anything about it?" Chavez asked during his weekly television and radio
program.Yeah...Deporting critics is hardly tyrannical at all!
How is that different from refusing entry to a single pupil out of a French school class because he wears a "Stop Bush" T-Shirt? (Actually, VERY different, I know. Chavez IS a dictator/tyrant, no question about it. I was just trying to say: Whoever makes a decision to refuse someone entry into his country, just because of belief, is an idiot.)
Cheers, Sebastian -- "If it was two men, the non-driver would have challenged the driver to simply crash through the gates. The macho image thing, you know." - Marc Clifton
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Chris-Kaiser wrote:
In response to your own rhetoric that somehow nazis are representative of dissenters. Laughable at best.
I didn't say that (obviously). I said Nazis are one form of dissenters. IAm claimed that dissent in general is what qualifies a good American. So then if we have a good system and bad dissenters, then those dissenters are suddenly qualified as good. I gave him an opportunity to change what he said, but he only reinforced it.
Of course dissent (even from Nazis) is good - it leads to a free & frank exchange of views. Should dissenters which have been qualified as bad be prevented from expressing that dissent - driving their views underground, away from the public scrutiny which would have exposed their 'bad' ideas as such? How could a dissenter's position be assessed to determine its goodness/badness? This seems like an untenable position to hold in a democratic society - suppression of dissent is foolish in the same way as steering a car with your eyes shut is. Chavez is clearly wrong to attempt to suppress criticism of his regime, as is Red Stateler to assert that there is such a thing as good/bad dissent. It is just someone expressing their POV, unless you live under religious extremism you are generally allowed to express your own POV wherever you live - even in the USA. Any democratic regime that can't withstand critique from its participating members is badly broken. (In fact, wasn't the USA formed largely by oppressed minorities seeking somewhere they could express themselves freely?) Ignore the lessons of history at your peril!