GPL License Question
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leppie wrote:
IF there is no commercial factor, then u can use/modify it, as the final code will never be produced to the public.
I am not sure that is entirely true. If you create an application that uses GPL code, and you release it as Freeware (no commercial interest), I believe that you are still obligated to release the code under the GPL. One of the purposes of the GPL is to increase the quality of source code. So I believe that if your company takes some GPL code and improves its performance and stability, your company is still obligated to release those changes even if the project it is being used for gets canceled and never sees the light of day. Peace!
-=- James
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See DeleteFXPFilesJames R. Twine wrote:
If you create an application that uses GPL code, and you release it as Freeware (no commercial interest), I believe that you are still obligated to release the code under the GPL.
I agree, given, you release it to the public, or in fact anyone else to use, then it should be under GPL. But an internal webapp?
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Keep the GPL stuff as a separate module/library (including any interfaces) and that is the part you have to make available.
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I do not think it works that way, otherwise there would be no concerns about using GPL software at all - everyone would just use GPLed code it to create LIBs/DLLs link against them and go happily on their way not releasing their source code. Once something is released under the GPL, you cannot re-license it under a less-restrictive license. Peace!
-=- James
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Man, I just HAD to check that one out, and smack my a$$ and call me Sally if it was not spot-on: http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2007/07/the_gpl_and_sof_1.html[^]. All I can say is...
Wow! Peace!-=- James
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Avoid driving a vehicle taller than you and remember that Professional Driver on Closed Course does not mean your Dumb Ass on a Public Road!
See DeleteFXPFilesSo using GPL code on a website is perfectly legal?
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
James R. Twine wrote:
If you create an application that uses GPL code, and you release it as Freeware (no commercial interest), I believe that you are still obligated to release the code under the GPL.
I agree, given, you release it to the public, or in fact anyone else to use, then it should be under GPL. But an internal webapp?
**
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It seems just being part of a web app means you don't need to make your own code available because by it's very nature, a web app *is* software as a service.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
James R. Twine wrote:
If you create an application that uses GPL code, and you release it as Freeware (no commercial interest), I believe that you are still obligated to release the code under the GPL.
I agree, given, you release it to the public, or in fact anyone else to use, then it should be under GPL. But an internal webapp?
**
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Hmmm... Good question because it raises the concept of "distribution". Are you "distributing" the application when you make it available to internal users? Are you "distributing" it when you give it to your operations team to deploy on a web server? What about when you give it to your QA team for verification? Time to call a lawyer, methinks... Peace!
-=- James
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Avoid driving a vehicle taller than you and remember that Professional Driver on Closed Course does not mean your Dumb Ass on a Public Road!
See DeleteFXPFiles -
So using GPL code on a website is perfectly legal?
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001I wish it were that simple - if the thing gets downloaded in any way then you are going to be bound by the GPL...so client side java or ActiveX ing would count. As O'Reilly points out the problem is that the license has not kept up with the delivery method so now it only covers what is installed, not what is used.
'--8<------------------------ Ex Datis: Duncan Jones Merrion Computing Ltd
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So using GPL code on a website is perfectly legal?
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001Depends on what you mean by "use", I think. But I see that the whole SAAS issue can be used/abused in many ways, and I am not educated enough in that area to render an informed opinion on it. That whole concept of "distribution" is a real hairy area. I do not think that most websites could be considered SAAS, however, otherwise open-source CMS projects and things like MySQL could be abused in many ways. Perhaps the web server itself, because it is the thing that is actually doing something, but not the content. I dunno... Thinking about it is making me itch in a bad place... Better to avoid the whole GPL thing entirely if you can! :) Peace!
-=- James
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See DeleteFXPFiles -
I wish it were that simple - if the thing gets downloaded in any way then you are going to be bound by the GPL...so client side java or ActiveX ing would count. As O'Reilly points out the problem is that the license has not kept up with the delivery method so now it only covers what is installed, not what is used.
'--8<------------------------ Ex Datis: Duncan Jones Merrion Computing Ltd
Well, I'm talking about a .Net DLL which is server side only (unless I'm missing something).
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Keep the GPL stuff as a separate module/library (including any interfaces) and that is the part you have to make available.
Visit http://www.readytogiveup.com/[^] and do something special today.
Unfortunately that's not correct - GPL is 100% invasive - any use in the source tree itself affects the rest of the source tree for that app. This includes plug-in modules, DLLs, etc. The only way to truly "modularize" it, is to make the "module" as a separate executable, and even then there can be problems. For example if App.exe uses module.exe and App.exe can be distributed and function *without* module.exe, then you are OK. If, however, App.exe is 100% dependant on module.exe when distributing it, then you have a problem and App.exe's source will also fall under the GPL.
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Just so everything is clear (the thread has run off a bit), yes, if you use GPL code in an application, you have to release the entire application under the GPL. This "viral" nature of it is a initial turn-off for lots of people, and why I first created the FSCL[^] some years ago back in my credit-where-credit-is-due years when I was writing articles for CG, CP and other sites. If you are using a library, or code that is normally used to build a library, it may be under the LGPL (GNU Library General Public License, although they now call it the lesser GPL to give it a negative connotation). The LGPL allows you to link the library into a non-open-source project and does not require you to place all of your code under the GPL. Note that if you make any changes to the library, you still have to release those changes to the public. Some other OSS projects have dual/multi-licensing, so that you can use the GPL version with code you plan to release under the GPL, or purchasing a "commercial" license that allows you to use it in a commercial project and not get involved with the GPL at all. Peace!
-=- James
Please rate this message - let me know if I helped or not! * * *If you think it costs a lot to do it right, just wait until you find out how much it costs to do it wrong!
Avoid driving a vehicle taller than you and remember that Professional Driver on Closed Course does not mean your Dumb Ass on a Public Road!
See DeleteFXPFilesNote: this all refers to GPL 2, I have no idea what goofy changes GPL 3 brings to the table.
James R. Twine wrote:
if you use GPL code in an application, you have to release the entire application under the GPL.
That is correct *if* you distribute the app. The problem is defining what *distribution* means. If you are using the app within your organization, you do not have ot hand out the code. If you are allowing others to download and/or purchase the app outside of your organization then you need to provide access to the source code. I believe the latest whining from the FSF idiots is over the fact that things like GMail, etc don't necessarily mean you're downloading an app, since much, or all, of the application is running on a single remote machine, not on the users. So now, while Google (or companies like it) may be honoring the letter of the law, the current groupthink is that they should *still* release their code changes because it's not "fair".
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
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If I use GPL'd source code in my app, do I have to make the entire app available under the GPL, or just the code I used?
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001To make this simple: don't use GPL code. Ever. Find something, anything, else. Or, if it's really that good, write to the author (assuming theres only one) and negotiate for a commercial license.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
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Stallman's an idiot. I find the idea that my source code should be free to whoever wants it ludicrous and offensive. I worked hard on it, and I expect to be compensated for it. The GPL is expressly designed to prevent that, and to make it easy for less-capable programmers to steal my work and claim it for their own.
Software Zen:
delete this;ok i'll bite... what says that your source code should be available to anyone unless you license it under gpl??? if you use other gpl stuff to build your app upon then yes you have to abide by its authors rules ... if you write it all from scratch yourself then you make your own rules i think you sound a bit hysterical about something that isnt actually how you phrase it
"there is no spoon" {me}
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ok i'll bite... what says that your source code should be available to anyone unless you license it under gpl??? if you use other gpl stuff to build your app upon then yes you have to abide by its authors rules ... if you write it all from scratch yourself then you make your own rules i think you sound a bit hysterical about something that isnt actually how you phrase it
"there is no spoon" {me}
When I've looked at the GPL, its requirements were straightforward. If you use GPL licensed code, that automatically makes your code GPL licensed as well. The GPL license requires that you make your source code publicly available. The GPL license is a contract intended to make this notion of public access enforcable in a court of law. My employer values and protects its intellectual property, which includes source code. Therefore, I don't use GPL licensed code. Frankly, the couple of times I looked into it, the code wasn't of commercial quality anyway, and I went with other solutions.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
When I've looked at the GPL, its requirements were straightforward. If you use GPL licensed code, that automatically makes your code GPL licensed as well. The GPL license requires that you make your source code publicly available. The GPL license is a contract intended to make this notion of public access enforcable in a court of law. My employer values and protects its intellectual property, which includes source code. Therefore, I don't use GPL licensed code. Frankly, the couple of times I looked into it, the code wasn't of commercial quality anyway, and I went with other solutions.
Software Zen:
delete this;That is one of the more common misconceptions about open-source software. People assume that just because there are hundreds of eyes looking at the code, that automatically means that all bad things will be caught. However, I do not know of anyone that is making sure that those eyes are attached to an experienced brain that knows what it is doing. If I release some C++ source code, and 2000 fresh-out-of-school VB developers say "It's good!", that does not mean that it really
ISgood software. Peace!-=- James
Please rate this message - let me know if I helped or not! * * *If you think it costs a lot to do it right, just wait until you find out how much it costs to do it wrong!
Avoid driving a vehicle taller than you and remember that Professional Driver on Closed Course does not mean your Dumb Ass on a Public Road!
See DeleteFXPFiles -
When I've looked at the GPL, its requirements were straightforward. If you use GPL licensed code, that automatically makes your code GPL licensed as well. The GPL license requires that you make your source code publicly available. The GPL license is a contract intended to make this notion of public access enforcable in a court of law. My employer values and protects its intellectual property, which includes source code. Therefore, I don't use GPL licensed code. Frankly, the couple of times I looked into it, the code wasn't of commercial quality anyway, and I went with other solutions.
Software Zen:
delete this;totally agree with you ... i was just saying that you dont *have* to use gpl'd code in your app ... and yah ... people seem to hold "gpl'd code" to be some kind of holy grail that we should use whenever possible but frankly a lot of it is crap written by people learning to code ... well designed and implemented code that is robust, scalable and extensible is only written by serious professional programmers and shouldn't be free imho
"there is no spoon" {me}
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Stallman... Geeze... I would bet that his over-zealousness and abrasive nature is one of the reasons the GNU movement is not more widely accepted. That man can be a bit of a PITA. Even
/.-ers, which are usually anti-MS and pro-OSS, can be split on how they feel about him. That whole Linux vs. GNU/Linux thing[^] put some people off that were just getting into Linux and the whole OSS movement (myself included - I feel it is just trying to use the Linux name to gain visibility). If F/OSS is that great, it does not need the Linux name to help it along. I would bet that OSS would be more widely considered (if not accepted) if you did not have RMS trying toshoveF/OSS down everyones throat. :/ Peace!-=- James
Please rate this message - let me know if I helped or not! * * *If you think it costs a lot to do it right, just wait until you find out how much it costs to do it wrong!
Avoid driving a vehicle taller than you and remember that Professional Driver on Closed Course does not mean your Dumb Ass on a Public Road!
See DeleteFXPFiles -
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
the web app that would be using the GPL'd code would only be available on the intranet
My interpretation says thats ok. GPL is to prevent commercialization of an open source code base, hence being closed. IF there is no commercial factor, then u can use/modify it, as the final code will never be produced to the public.
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You have to remember that the GPL and in *particular* GPLv3 were written by a man who will actually refuse to EVER talk to you again if you don't call Linux by its full FSF name: GNU/Linux. No, the purpose of the GPL isn't to prevent code commercialization, it's based on the philosophy that source code itself should never be hidden, period. Consequently I generally avoid GPL'd code of any kind - I look for BSD or LGPL style licenses so that I can use the library without having to release my own source code. It's not that I would mind doing so, but I think my employer would :~
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If I use GPL'd source code in my app, do I have to make the entire app available under the GPL, or just the code I used?
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001yes.
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Stallman's an idiot. I find the idea that my source code should be free to whoever wants it ludicrous and offensive. I worked hard on it, and I expect to be compensated for it. The GPL is expressly designed to prevent that, and to make it easy for less-capable programmers to steal my work and claim it for their own.
Software Zen:
delete this;Gary Wheeler wrote:
I find the idea that my source code should be free to whoever wants it ludicrous and offensive. I worked hard on it, and I expect to be compensated for it.
*looks wistfully at his beautiful HP printer, thinks of the days he's spent fighting with its incredibly poor software* I guess we all have our own little things that tick us off...
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I don't care what you consider witty, but at least I do not blather on posting nonsense like Jim Crafton.
-- Stringcheese, humbled by Crafton's ability to string together multiple sentences
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Gary Wheeler wrote:
I find the idea that my source code should be free to whoever wants it ludicrous and offensive. I worked hard on it, and I expect to be compensated for it.
*looks wistfully at his beautiful HP printer, thinks of the days he's spent fighting with its incredibly poor software* I guess we all have our own little things that tick us off...
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I don't care what you consider witty, but at least I do not blather on posting nonsense like Jim Crafton.
-- Stringcheese, humbled by Crafton's ability to string together multiple sentences
I'm afraid the GPL is one of my 'hot' buttons :-O.
Shog9 wrote:
his beautiful HP printer
Been there, done that, wanted to use the T-shirt as a garrotte on the HP software team...
Software Zen:
delete this;