Would you accept a software developer job offer if...
-
I'd take the job, but that's because I'm desperate for employment. If you're more valuable than me (a humble 18-year-old "kid") It really changes things. Lol. Does anybody besides me know that "employer" and "employee" are both old Latin, and roughly translate to "user" and "to be used" respectively? I'm no Karl Marx, but I'd say that's a big inside to what's going on out there... anyway, my two cents.
-Gatsby
Jay Gatsby wrote:
Does anybody besides me know that "employer" and "employee" are both old Latin, and roughly translate to "user" and "to be used" respectively?
You know that a tie is nothing more than a collar, right? It's a means of asserting dominance and status over people. By wearing a tie, you are publicly showing your subservience. Avoid jobs where a tie is a dress requirement. ;)
Sunrise Wallpaper Project | The StartPage Randomizer | A Random Web Page
-
Jay Gatsby wrote:
Does anybody besides me know that "employer" and "employee" are both old Latin, and roughly translate to "user" and "to be used" respectively?
You know that a tie is nothing more than a collar, right? It's a means of asserting dominance and status over people. By wearing a tie, you are publicly showing your subservience. Avoid jobs where a tie is a dress requirement. ;)
Sunrise Wallpaper Project | The StartPage Randomizer | A Random Web Page
-
there was not even a technical interview just an informal one asking about professional experience? (Assuming that every other factor is reasonable)
I am a SysAdmin, I battle my own daemons.
The question should be "why wouldn't you accept it?" I'm against technical question/answer interviews since what you don't know you can find out. Better to find out how you do the job and why you do it the way that you do, etc. Being in IT is like being a lawyer: you can't know everything but you know where to look for it.
-
there was not even a technical interview just an informal one asking about professional experience? (Assuming that every other factor is reasonable)
I am a SysAdmin, I battle my own daemons.
My first guess: either they are a WTF hellhole, or they don't have anyone with the technical experience. Interviews are bidirectional, at least potentially so ;) So how long are they in development, how many developers are already working there?
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|FoldWithUs! | sighist -
there was not even a technical interview just an informal one asking about professional experience? (Assuming that every other factor is reasonable)
I am a SysAdmin, I battle my own daemons.
What was your observation while in this interview? Are they grossly unorganized, understaffed and need just *anybody*? Or did your references impress them, the themself have no programming experience and they are willing to give you a chance?
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not money, I am become as a sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
George Orwell, "Keep the Aspidistra Flying", Opening words -
I would, in fact I did. And I rejoice over it to this day. I had no degree, I'd been teaching myself C++ and MFC for 6 months. I showed the man who would soon be my boss an app that I had been working on for those 6 months, and that was the interview. I had to work VERY hard in the next 12 months to bring myself up to an employable level, I worked contract at first and billed about 1/2 the hours I worked. I spent most of the money on books, and about 18 months later, I went back to the other place that had interviewed me, and this time got the job there. So, that situation is the reason I have been able to make a career out of programming, despite not having any qualifications. Nowadays, it would depend on several variables 1 - do I already have a job ? I wouldn't leave a job for that situation 2 - How the interview went - were they able to answer my questions about things like source control, for example and so on.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
-
there was not even a technical interview just an informal one asking about professional experience? (Assuming that every other factor is reasonable)
I am a SysAdmin, I battle my own daemons.
DenClancy wrote:
there was not even a technical interview just an informal one asking about professional experience? (Assuming that every other factor is reasonable)
No, but then you have the opportunity to ask questions yourself - So give a technical interview in return.
Upcoming FREE developer events: * Glasgow: Agile in the Enterprise Vs. ISVs, Mock Objects, SQL Server CLR Integration, Reporting Services, db4o, Dependency Injection with Spring ... * Reading: SQL Bits My website
-
there was not even a technical interview just an informal one asking about professional experience? (Assuming that every other factor is reasonable)
I am a SysAdmin, I battle my own daemons.
I've done so in the past. These were for contract positions. Some clients take the attitude that if you don't cut the mustard they'll just get rid of you within the week.
Kevin
-
The question should be "why wouldn't you accept it?" I'm against technical question/answer interviews since what you don't know you can find out. Better to find out how you do the job and why you do it the way that you do, etc. Being in IT is like being a lawyer: you can't know everything but you know where to look for it.
The hardest thing for me to test would be someone's problem solving ability. Ofcourse things that have already been done can be looked up, but in software we hardly ever build the same thing twice, otherwise we wouldn't be building it. So one needs to be creative in solving these new problems. And honestly I would not know how to get that above the table in an interview...
Wout
-
there was not even a technical interview just an informal one asking about professional experience? (Assuming that every other factor is reasonable)
I am a SysAdmin, I battle my own daemons.
I would say that there should be a good balance of technical interview + professional experience + positive attitude + optimistic outlook.
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar Personal Homepage Tech Gossips
-
Every time you mention how you got into programming it freaks me out as its about the exact same way I got into programming. I started as a hobbyist and I was working as an estate agent :|
Cool - I was selling stationery to schools and businesses.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
-
The hardest thing for me to test would be someone's problem solving ability. Ofcourse things that have already been done can be looked up, but in software we hardly ever build the same thing twice, otherwise we wouldn't be building it. So one needs to be creative in solving these new problems. And honestly I would not know how to get that above the table in an interview...
Wout
wout de zeeuw wrote:
So one needs to be creative in solving these new problems.
Absolutely true. And this comes only from within and no training institutions can impart these into any of thier curricula.
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar Personal Homepage Tech Gossips
-
The hardest thing for me to test would be someone's problem solving ability. Ofcourse things that have already been done can be looked up, but in software we hardly ever build the same thing twice, otherwise we wouldn't be building it. So one needs to be creative in solving these new problems. And honestly I would not know how to get that above the table in an interview...
Wout
In actuality it's quite simple: you have in front of you at interview the stick with which to beat this information from the prospective employee, metaphorically speaking, their CV/Resume. Ask them about their last project; perhaps: Why did you choose widgets++ to do that or how did you go about solving problem x? Why did you choose that approach? What alternates did you consider? Another method I like is to ask about their favourite design patterns (we all have one: mine is (currently) DBC). Get them to tell you why they like it and how and when to use it: what problem did it solve for them. In that way you're getting to see how they approach and solve problems rather than have they memorised 8 different ways to cook duck without removing the feathers. Get them talking: the more they know a subject the more they'll be likely to talk about it with enthusiasm and gusto: they like what they do and they understand it. See my article on interviewing: that might be useful to you. Giving and Taking an Interview[^] and give it a 5 if it is!
-
Jay Gatsby wrote:
Does anybody besides me know that "employer" and "employee" are both old Latin, and roughly translate to "user" and "to be used" respectively?
You know that a tie is nothing more than a collar, right? It's a means of asserting dominance and status over people. By wearing a tie, you are publicly showing your subservience. Avoid jobs where a tie is a dress requirement. ;)
Sunrise Wallpaper Project | The StartPage Randomizer | A Random Web Page
Indeed. I had an interview once where I was frostily informed by the H.R. person that gentlemen in the company wore ties and white shirts. Jackets were required when you were away from your desk. Bugger that.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
In actuality it's quite simple: you have in front of you at interview the stick with which to beat this information from the prospective employee, metaphorically speaking, their CV/Resume. Ask them about their last project; perhaps: Why did you choose widgets++ to do that or how did you go about solving problem x? Why did you choose that approach? What alternates did you consider? Another method I like is to ask about their favourite design patterns (we all have one: mine is (currently) DBC). Get them to tell you why they like it and how and when to use it: what problem did it solve for them. In that way you're getting to see how they approach and solve problems rather than have they memorised 8 different ways to cook duck without removing the feathers. Get them talking: the more they know a subject the more they'll be likely to talk about it with enthusiasm and gusto: they like what they do and they understand it. See my article on interviewing: that might be useful to you. Giving and Taking an Interview[^] and give it a 5 if it is!
Ah, you have some good points there. Yeah, the road to the solution is definitely the interesting part, the solution itself not. The decision making is what separates the good from the bad...
Wout
-
there was not even a technical interview just an informal one asking about professional experience? (Assuming that every other factor is reasonable)
I am a SysAdmin, I battle my own daemons.
From my experience, 'technical' interviews can only serve to eliminate candidates, not approve them. If you ask questions and the person screws up the answer badly (or worse, tries to fake it), then that tells you they don't know what they say they know. If they answer all the technical questions correctly, that just tells you they know certain things. It doesn't tell you what they will be like to work with. It doesn't tell you about their habit of watching porn on work time. You don't get to hear how they backstabbed and ass-kissed their way onto the 'hot' project at their last job. Probably most importantly, it doesn't tell you how they named their children using Hungarian notation, because it was the right thing to do.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
there was not even a technical interview just an informal one asking about professional experience? (Assuming that every other factor is reasonable)
I am a SysAdmin, I battle my own daemons.
DenClancy wrote:
there was not even a technical interview just an informal one asking about professional experience? (Assuming that every other factor is reasonable)
Sure, why not? Most interviewers don't know how to conduct an interview anyways, so this is no different. Marc
-
Ah, you have some good points there. Yeah, the road to the solution is definitely the interesting part, the solution itself not. The decision making is what separates the good from the bad...
Wout
Thanks: it does tend to sort the wheat from the chaffe.
-
Jay Gatsby wrote:
Does anybody besides me know that "employer" and "employee" are both old Latin, and roughly translate to "user" and "to be used" respectively?
You know that a tie is nothing more than a collar, right? It's a means of asserting dominance and status over people. By wearing a tie, you are publicly showing your subservience. Avoid jobs where a tie is a dress requirement. ;)
Sunrise Wallpaper Project | The StartPage Randomizer | A Random Web Page
Miszou wrote:
You know that a tie is nothing more than a collar, right? It's a means of asserting dominance and status over people. By wearing a tie, you are publicly showing your subservience.
That makes sense in part where I work; I wear a tie and by what is said above I'm showing my subservience to the owner of the company. He also wears a tie though? So who's he subservient to? His wife?
Never argue with an imbecile; they bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
-
there was not even a technical interview just an informal one asking about professional experience? (Assuming that every other factor is reasonable)
I am a SysAdmin, I battle my own daemons.
I would take some hours of and make a visit to this company just visiting to look what are you expecting. "Where is the rest room? Is the coffee fine?" Try to speak with your future collegues whats up in the job. I got often (different) jobs this way: they really needed somebody because they havent worry about looking for somebody. So they hadnt big choices and I got the jobs with a good payroll.:-O
Greetings from Germany