Switch from Source Safe to Subversion?
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This is funny because I actually switched to Source Safe from Subversion earlier this year. I have used Subversion for multiple projects over the last 3 years at two companies. I actually led a project to implement Subversion as the source control solution for a multinational financial institution's Polish branch. But we were coding in Delphi, SQL Server, some PHP, but very little .NET back then. And RPG on iSeries (though not me) - Subversion also works for that, there's a plugin for Eclipse called Subclipse. Then a few months ago I started my own business and moved to .NET world which interested me, so I started using Visual Studio. Subversion had nice integration with Windows shell, but it couldn't be embedded in my developer IDE... And Visual Source Safe had that feature. It was easier, I could just click in the Solution Explorer and check-out/check-in single or multiple files and do other source control stuff. So I uninstalled SVN, backed up my repos and sticked with Source Safe ever since. I think it's a matter of one's needs. If you are using Microsoft tools exclusively - I would go for Source Safe (Or SourceGear? :) It's free for 1 dev). If you, however, use non-Microsoft tools, Subversion is a better choice - it won't integrate, but neither will Source Safe (usually). These are my two cents. And, by the way, anyone knows of a way to integrate Subversion with Visual Studio? Perhaps I'm just ignorant and don't know of it - if there was a way to fully integrate SVN I might take a second look at it. Ah, another thing I don't like about SVN is Apache. ;P I am using IIS for all my web projects (ASP.NET, even PHP) and don't want to run another HTTP server just for the sake of SVN. I remember it was also difficult to estabilish Active Directory based authentication and the auth rules (as described in SVN ebook) make you store usernames and passwords in a plain text file. :| Regards, Pawel Krakowiak
For me, the issue is more to do with the reliability of the source database and the ease of managing multiple developers on single projects. It's merge control is far superior to VSS. Oh well.
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
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No help with your problem - btu the biggest problem I have with a switch is that people actually insist on keeping the exclusive checkout. I don't know what to make of that.
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|FoldWithUs! | sighistThough I never used locks myself with svn (no need), you may enforce locks. From svn-book (at the end of "The Copy-Modify-Merge Solution" chapter) : "When Locking is Necessary ... While Subversion is still primarily a copy-modify-merge system, it still recognizes the need to lock an occasional file and thus provide mechanisms for this. This feature is discussed later in this book, in the section called “Locking”." Moreover : - you can use hook scripts on the subversion server in order to customize processing; - you can use a property named svn:needs-lock (property = meta-data attached to versionned objects) in order to ease work. More info on that subject : - http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.4/svn-book.html#svn.advanced.locking - http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.4/svn-book.html#svn.basic.vsn-models.lock-unlock - http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.4/svn-book.html#svn.basic.vsn-models.copy-merge
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For me, the issue is more to do with the reliability of the source database and the ease of managing multiple developers on single projects. It's merge control is far superior to VSS. Oh well.
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
It's merge control is far superior to VSS. Yes, it is. I agree. The diff tool in VSS sucks, honestly.
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This is funny because I actually switched to Source Safe from Subversion earlier this year. I have used Subversion for multiple projects over the last 3 years at two companies. I actually led a project to implement Subversion as the source control solution for a multinational financial institution's Polish branch. But we were coding in Delphi, SQL Server, some PHP, but very little .NET back then. And RPG on iSeries (though not me) - Subversion also works for that, there's a plugin for Eclipse called Subclipse. Then a few months ago I started my own business and moved to .NET world which interested me, so I started using Visual Studio. Subversion had nice integration with Windows shell, but it couldn't be embedded in my developer IDE... And Visual Source Safe had that feature. It was easier, I could just click in the Solution Explorer and check-out/check-in single or multiple files and do other source control stuff. So I uninstalled SVN, backed up my repos and sticked with Source Safe ever since. I think it's a matter of one's needs. If you are using Microsoft tools exclusively - I would go for Source Safe (Or SourceGear? :) It's free for 1 dev). If you, however, use non-Microsoft tools, Subversion is a better choice - it won't integrate, but neither will Source Safe (usually). These are my two cents. And, by the way, anyone knows of a way to integrate Subversion with Visual Studio? Perhaps I'm just ignorant and don't know of it - if there was a way to fully integrate SVN I might take a second look at it. Ah, another thing I don't like about SVN is Apache. ;P I am using IIS for all my web projects (ASP.NET, even PHP) and don't want to run another HTTP server just for the sake of SVN. I remember it was also difficult to estabilish Active Directory based authentication and the auth rules (as described in SVN ebook) make you store usernames and passwords in a plain text file. :| Regards, Pawel Krakowiak
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This is funny because I actually switched to Source Safe from Subversion earlier this year. I have used Subversion for multiple projects over the last 3 years at two companies. I actually led a project to implement Subversion as the source control solution for a multinational financial institution's Polish branch. But we were coding in Delphi, SQL Server, some PHP, but very little .NET back then. And RPG on iSeries (though not me) - Subversion also works for that, there's a plugin for Eclipse called Subclipse. Then a few months ago I started my own business and moved to .NET world which interested me, so I started using Visual Studio. Subversion had nice integration with Windows shell, but it couldn't be embedded in my developer IDE... And Visual Source Safe had that feature. It was easier, I could just click in the Solution Explorer and check-out/check-in single or multiple files and do other source control stuff. So I uninstalled SVN, backed up my repos and sticked with Source Safe ever since. I think it's a matter of one's needs. If you are using Microsoft tools exclusively - I would go for Source Safe (Or SourceGear? :) It's free for 1 dev). If you, however, use non-Microsoft tools, Subversion is a better choice - it won't integrate, but neither will Source Safe (usually). These are my two cents. And, by the way, anyone knows of a way to integrate Subversion with Visual Studio? Perhaps I'm just ignorant and don't know of it - if there was a way to fully integrate SVN I might take a second look at it. Ah, another thing I don't like about SVN is Apache. ;P I am using IIS for all my web projects (ASP.NET, even PHP) and don't want to run another HTTP server just for the sake of SVN. I remember it was also difficult to estabilish Active Directory based authentication and the auth rules (as described in SVN ebook) make you store usernames and passwords in a plain text file. :| Regards, Pawel Krakowiak
I have used Source Safe for about 7-10 years, just keep upgrading and have had no problems. For my use it is usually single developer usage or two at the most so it does not get hammered some software houses might. One place I worked at back in the 2000-2003 times, we used Source Safe and Source Offsite for remote work. Had no problems..
Rocky <>< Blog Post: Windows Live Authentication - Easy Stuff! Tech Blog Post: Vista ReadyBoost! Tech Sites: SilverlightCity.com ~ TheSilverlightDirectory.com ~ TheWPFDirectory.com
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Do it. You won't look back. The fact that your source control database doesn't get corrupted more than makes up for a little bit of lost revision history.
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
When I'm forced to use VSS, I always create a scheduled task to back up the database each night so that I don't lose more than a day of work. I was always amazed at how buggy VSS is and always has been. It really is one of the most half-baked of all of Microsoft's products--and that's from a pretty crowded lineup of half-baked products. That from a company sitting on $40-$50B in cash. Amazing.
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This is funny because I actually switched to Source Safe from Subversion earlier this year. I have used Subversion for multiple projects over the last 3 years at two companies. I actually led a project to implement Subversion as the source control solution for a multinational financial institution's Polish branch. But we were coding in Delphi, SQL Server, some PHP, but very little .NET back then. And RPG on iSeries (though not me) - Subversion also works for that, there's a plugin for Eclipse called Subclipse. Then a few months ago I started my own business and moved to .NET world which interested me, so I started using Visual Studio. Subversion had nice integration with Windows shell, but it couldn't be embedded in my developer IDE... And Visual Source Safe had that feature. It was easier, I could just click in the Solution Explorer and check-out/check-in single or multiple files and do other source control stuff. So I uninstalled SVN, backed up my repos and sticked with Source Safe ever since. I think it's a matter of one's needs. If you are using Microsoft tools exclusively - I would go for Source Safe (Or SourceGear? :) It's free for 1 dev). If you, however, use non-Microsoft tools, Subversion is a better choice - it won't integrate, but neither will Source Safe (usually). These are my two cents. And, by the way, anyone knows of a way to integrate Subversion with Visual Studio? Perhaps I'm just ignorant and don't know of it - if there was a way to fully integrate SVN I might take a second look at it. Ah, another thing I don't like about SVN is Apache. ;P I am using IIS for all my web projects (ASP.NET, even PHP) and don't want to run another HTTP server just for the sake of SVN. I remember it was also difficult to estabilish Active Directory based authentication and the auth rules (as described in SVN ebook) make you store usernames and passwords in a plain text file. :| Regards, Pawel Krakowiak
The list of plug-in I found for Visual Studio I only test them for a short time, because I prefer not the integreted way. I use TortoiseSvn all the time. AnkhSVN, Open Source http://ankhsvn.tigris.org/ PushOK SVN SCC, Look exactly like SourceSafe in Visual Studio http://www.pushok.com/soft\_svn.php VisualSVN, Use TortoiseSVN to communicate with Subversion, maybe a little friendlier than AnkhSVN but cost more than 50$ http://www.visualsvn.com/ -- modified at 9:32 Wednesday 12th September, 2007
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El Corazon wrote:
scratch box is where you can play with ideas before submission to a full-out source control. I actually use multiple subversion systems, my scratchboard has non-working revisions included, where-as the company one requires "expected" working versons uploaded. Sometimes you break the company build with a change, but not often.
Ummm, isn't that called a branch?
si618 wrote:
Ummm, isn't that called a branch?
If it is held on the same server, yes. We're talking two different servers, with one server being a local database and the client tool simply serves it to itself. :-D
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
Okay, you completely lost me on this one.
scratch box is where you can play with ideas before submission to a full-out source control. I actually use multiple subversion systems, my scratchboard has non-working revisions included, where-as the company one requires "expected" working versons uploaded. Sometimes you break the company build with a change, but not often. when you run multiple revision control systems on the same code, a local database, one not on a network server is called a scratch box.... not sure where the term comes from, but used it for many years.... maybe I even accidentally coined it and forgot about it. Maybe from practicing calligraphy in the sand.... I do calligraphy too. :doh:
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Sounds similar to a sandbox environment. (Sandbox also being a place where cats do their business :) )
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Sounds similar to a sandbox environment. (Sandbox also being a place where cats do their business :) )
K..Thompson wrote:
(Sandbox also being a place where cats do their business
is there any term used that will not relate to cats and certain behaviors? :laugh:
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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The last project I worked on required me to install and use Subversion / Tortoise, which from a user's point of view was relatively painless. I've been using Source Safe at home for all of my personal projects since the early 90s. At this point, I'm wondering if it's worthwhile to move everything switch over to Subversion. If I make the switch, I suspect I can kiss my revision history in Source Safe goodbye as I doubt that there's a way to port it to Subversion. However, I'm also wondering how easy it is to use from an administrative point of view (configuration, creating projects, etc.) rather than just checking stuff in and out. Although I've never completely trusted the database stability, for single user projects Source Safe is drop dead simple to use. Thoughts, anyone?
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalUSA.com
Just curious, but why is the discussion just subversion/vss? Why is foundation server not even considered? I am a vss user and have considered subversion, but wonder why programmers and project teams don't seem to consider foundation server. What are the issues about foundation server? Thanks.
MrPlankton
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The last project I worked on required me to install and use Subversion / Tortoise, which from a user's point of view was relatively painless. I've been using Source Safe at home for all of my personal projects since the early 90s. At this point, I'm wondering if it's worthwhile to move everything switch over to Subversion. If I make the switch, I suspect I can kiss my revision history in Source Safe goodbye as I doubt that there's a way to port it to Subversion. However, I'm also wondering how easy it is to use from an administrative point of view (configuration, creating projects, etc.) rather than just checking stuff in and out. Although I've never completely trusted the database stability, for single user projects Source Safe is drop dead simple to use. Thoughts, anyone?
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalUSA.com
The biggest worry I have about source control systems is corruption of the archive database, which in my experience happens soon after one attempts a few branches. I've seen it happen twice in Visual Source Safe, and once in the OS/2 version of PVCS (or whatever it's named nowadays). These experiences were in multiuser environments, and I do not have sufficient experience with the use of branches in a single user environment to say this is a problem there as well...but it's the first thing I wonder about when I see someone using branches. Christopher P. Kile