Am I a bad programmer?
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15 years since i graduated college and i've never worked at any company where the source and/or DB were documented beyond a few lonely one-liners next to bug fixes. function headers ? hah!
declassified wrote:
Most of us were drilled with the "document your code" as we were learning either by instructors or books
most developers i've worked with didn't go to school for programming and i don't know anyone in real life who reads programming books (other than for reference).
Chris Losinger wrote:
i don't know anyone in real life who reads programming books (other than for reference).
You do now - well, if only by proxy. Then again, my wife does think I'm a complete and utter sad ....:-D
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
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So, the company I work for is pretty small, only about 8 developers. The biggest (web) app is very complicated and is chalk full of errors. To compound the issue, there is absolutly ZERO documentation in the code / database. The DB also has no Foriegn Key contraints and is only marginally normalized. I don't work on the app that much, so I'm not as familiar as everyone else is with it. Whenever a problem comes up, they can jump right to the problem, but it sometimes takes me hours.... The question is "Am I a bad programmer, or are they?" Most of us were drilled with the "document your code" as we were learning either by instructors or books, but no one here does that (except me).:mad: As far as new development goes, IMHO I think I am *better* because I grasp the concepts of normalization, documentation, OOD. All new concepts to them. I had to explain normalization and pursuede them to let me do it on some new tables I added!:mad: And this is no hole-in-the-wall company either, they have some BIG clients. Well, thanks for letting me beef!
declassified wrote:
And this is no hole-in-the-wall company either, they have some BIG clients. Well, thanks for letting me beef!
you can get as big as they come and still run into this. I gave up fighting it for a while, but I saved my ammo. Documentation won't help you "much" (it does a little), when the code is fresh in your mind. Your recall is faster and better than code documentation. BUT it has its limits. A) you don't share your memories with your team, so documentation is the only contact other people have wth your code, be kind, document B) When you put down that project and let your memory work on something else, the old memories get pushed to the bottom and are harder to recall, now documentaton is your only reminder, documentation is your friend, be kind to yourself, document!
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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So, the company I work for is pretty small, only about 8 developers. The biggest (web) app is very complicated and is chalk full of errors. To compound the issue, there is absolutly ZERO documentation in the code / database. The DB also has no Foriegn Key contraints and is only marginally normalized. I don't work on the app that much, so I'm not as familiar as everyone else is with it. Whenever a problem comes up, they can jump right to the problem, but it sometimes takes me hours.... The question is "Am I a bad programmer, or are they?" Most of us were drilled with the "document your code" as we were learning either by instructors or books, but no one here does that (except me).:mad: As far as new development goes, IMHO I think I am *better* because I grasp the concepts of normalization, documentation, OOD. All new concepts to them. I had to explain normalization and pursuede them to let me do it on some new tables I added!:mad: And this is no hole-in-the-wall company either, they have some BIG clients. Well, thanks for letting me beef!
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So, the company I work for is pretty small, only about 8 developers. The biggest (web) app is very complicated and is chalk full of errors. To compound the issue, there is absolutly ZERO documentation in the code / database. The DB also has no Foriegn Key contraints and is only marginally normalized. I don't work on the app that much, so I'm not as familiar as everyone else is with it. Whenever a problem comes up, they can jump right to the problem, but it sometimes takes me hours.... The question is "Am I a bad programmer, or are they?" Most of us were drilled with the "document your code" as we were learning either by instructors or books, but no one here does that (except me).:mad: As far as new development goes, IMHO I think I am *better* because I grasp the concepts of normalization, documentation, OOD. All new concepts to them. I had to explain normalization and pursuede them to let me do it on some new tables I added!:mad: And this is no hole-in-the-wall company either, they have some BIG clients. Well, thanks for letting me beef!
declassified wrote:
and is chalk full of errors
"Chock" full...
declassified wrote:
o compound the issue, there is absolutly ZERO documentation in the code / database.
The rest of the programmers suck.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
15 years since i graduated college and i've never worked at any company where the source and/or DB were documented beyond a few lonely one-liners next to bug fixes. function headers ? hah!
declassified wrote:
Most of us were drilled with the "document your code" as we were learning either by instructors or books
most developers i've worked with didn't go to school for programming and i don't know anyone in real life who reads programming books (other than for reference).
Chris Losinger wrote:
15 years since i graduated college and i've never worked at any company where the source and/or DB were documented beyond a few lonely one-liners next to bug fixes. function headers ? hah!
Is that why you have your own?
[My Blog]
"Visual studio desperately needs some performance improvements. It is sometimes almost as slow as eclipse." - Rüdiger Klaehn
"Real men use mspaint for writing code and notepad for designing graphics." - Anna-Jayne Metcalfe -
Chris Losinger wrote:
15 years since i graduated college and i've never worked at any company where the source and/or DB were documented beyond a few lonely one-liners next to bug fixes. function headers ? hah!
Is that why you have your own?
[My Blog]
"Visual studio desperately needs some performance improvements. It is sometimes almost as slow as eclipse." - Rüdiger Klaehn
"Real men use mspaint for writing code and notepad for designing graphics." - Anna-Jayne Metcalfei have my own because once upon a time i had too much energy for only one programming job to consume
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Your not necessarily a bad programmer, but if you have to work with a steaming pile of shit every day it pays to get to know it as well as everyone else rather than to try to convince them all that they are the bad programmers.
"I don't want more choice. I just want better things!" - Edina Monsoon
John Cardinal wrote:
Your not necessarily a bad programmer
A-hem... (cough)... but your Englsih.... :-)
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John Cardinal wrote:
Your not necessarily a bad programmer
A-hem... (cough)... but your Englsih.... :-)
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So, the company I work for is pretty small, only about 8 developers. The biggest (web) app is very complicated and is chalk full of errors. To compound the issue, there is absolutly ZERO documentation in the code / database. The DB also has no Foriegn Key contraints and is only marginally normalized. I don't work on the app that much, so I'm not as familiar as everyone else is with it. Whenever a problem comes up, they can jump right to the problem, but it sometimes takes me hours.... The question is "Am I a bad programmer, or are they?" Most of us were drilled with the "document your code" as we were learning either by instructors or books, but no one here does that (except me).:mad: As far as new development goes, IMHO I think I am *better* because I grasp the concepts of normalization, documentation, OOD. All new concepts to them. I had to explain normalization and pursuede them to let me do it on some new tables I added!:mad: And this is no hole-in-the-wall company either, they have some BIG clients. Well, thanks for letting me beef!
No, you're not a bad programmer. In fact, you sound like a very good programmer. But I think you're an idiot to work with these bozos! ;P (please take that with the humor it was intended to be, off color as it may sound) Marc
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I know, I know, it's my Achilles heel. In a world where "nite" is increasingly a valid spelling, I don't see why we can't just combine your and you're and call it even. ;)
"I don't want more choice. I just want better things!" - Edina Monsoon
John Cardinal wrote:
Achilles heel
:-) strictly speaking, of course, there should be an apostrophe in there: Achilles' heel :-)
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I know, I know, it's my Achilles heel. In a world where "nite" is increasingly a valid spelling, I don't see why we can't just combine your and you're and call it even. ;)
"I don't want more choice. I just want better things!" - Edina Monsoon
John Cardinal wrote:
In a world where "nite" is increasingly a valid spelling
Obviously not the same world I inhabit.
Upcoming FREE developer events: * Glasgow: db4o: An Embeddable Database Engine for Object-Oriented Environments, Mock Objects, SQL Server CLR Integration, Reporting Services ... My website
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John Cardinal wrote:
Achilles heel
:-) strictly speaking, of course, there should be an apostrophe in there: Achilles' heel :-)
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John Cardinal wrote:
In a world where "nite" is increasingly a valid spelling
Obviously not the same world I inhabit.
Upcoming FREE developer events: * Glasgow: db4o: An Embeddable Database Engine for Object-Oriented Environments, Mock Objects, SQL Server CLR Integration, Reporting Services ... My website
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So, the company I work for is pretty small, only about 8 developers. The biggest (web) app is very complicated and is chalk full of errors. To compound the issue, there is absolutly ZERO documentation in the code / database. The DB also has no Foriegn Key contraints and is only marginally normalized. I don't work on the app that much, so I'm not as familiar as everyone else is with it. Whenever a problem comes up, they can jump right to the problem, but it sometimes takes me hours.... The question is "Am I a bad programmer, or are they?" Most of us were drilled with the "document your code" as we were learning either by instructors or books, but no one here does that (except me).:mad: As far as new development goes, IMHO I think I am *better* because I grasp the concepts of normalization, documentation, OOD. All new concepts to them. I had to explain normalization and pursuede them to let me do it on some new tables I added!:mad: And this is no hole-in-the-wall company either, they have some BIG clients. Well, thanks for letting me beef!
Bad programmer? No. Surrounded by dross? Yes.
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
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I wasn't referring to Achilles' heel, I was referring to the commonly known concept of a singular weakness. ;P
"I don't want more choice. I just want better things!" - Edina Monsoon
Even so, I thought the apostrophe remained - but am prepared to stand corrected if you know better...
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Living with the U.S. as our next door neighbour puts certain strains and pressures on the English language.
"I don't want more choice. I just want better things!" - Edina Monsoon
Rite! :-D
[My Blog]
"Visual studio desperately needs some performance improvements. It is sometimes almost as slow as eclipse." - Rüdiger Klaehn
"Real men use mspaint for writing code and notepad for designing graphics." - Anna-Jayne Metcalfe -
Living with the U.S. as our next door neighbour puts certain strains and pressures on the English language.
"I don't want more choice. I just want better things!" - Edina Monsoon
hey, just because we can't have a news program above 7th grade level because it would confuse the general population... I am as bad as the next guy, they hire someone to fix my writing. :) They really do!
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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15 years since i graduated college and i've never worked at any company where the source and/or DB were documented beyond a few lonely one-liners next to bug fixes. function headers ? hah!
declassified wrote:
Most of us were drilled with the "document your code" as we were learning either by instructors or books
most developers i've worked with didn't go to school for programming and i don't know anyone in real life who reads programming books (other than for reference).
I'd wag 25-40% of the lines in my source files are comments. It might've been higher at one point but I cleaned out crap comments from the previous developer at the same time I wrote good ones. Whoever wrote this was almost as bad as the OPs coworkers:
//increment the counter i++;There were some good comments scattered about but the original was done based on quantity rather than quality of comments.-- If you view money as inherently evil, I view it as my duty to assist in making you more virtuous.
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I'd wag 25-40% of the lines in my source files are comments. It might've been higher at one point but I cleaned out crap comments from the previous developer at the same time I wrote good ones. Whoever wrote this was almost as bad as the OPs coworkers:
//increment the counter i++;There were some good comments scattered about but the original was done based on quantity rather than quality of comments.-- If you view money as inherently evil, I view it as my duty to assist in making you more virtuous.
dan neely wrote:
cleaned out crap comments from the previous developer
I do a lot of that also. My belief is that it's better to write no comment than a bad comment.
//increment the counter i++;That person should be taken out and shot. ;) BDF -
So, the company I work for is pretty small, only about 8 developers. The biggest (web) app is very complicated and is chalk full of errors. To compound the issue, there is absolutly ZERO documentation in the code / database. The DB also has no Foriegn Key contraints and is only marginally normalized. I don't work on the app that much, so I'm not as familiar as everyone else is with it. Whenever a problem comes up, they can jump right to the problem, but it sometimes takes me hours.... The question is "Am I a bad programmer, or are they?" Most of us were drilled with the "document your code" as we were learning either by instructors or books, but no one here does that (except me).:mad: As far as new development goes, IMHO I think I am *better* because I grasp the concepts of normalization, documentation, OOD. All new concepts to them. I had to explain normalization and pursuede them to let me do it on some new tables I added!:mad: And this is no hole-in-the-wall company either, they have some BIG clients. Well, thanks for letting me beef!
I think not, simply because you bothered to ask. Bad programmers just pollute their way along oblivious to the stench of their product. Or so I imagine, I've never had to work with one. Just clean up after them.
declassified wrote:
Well, thanks for letting me beef!
That's why we're here, I guess. BDF