The soul and drugs
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Ok, thank you, it was the first real attempt of an answer :) But what do you consider the soul to be then? if its not the same as the mind/consiousness? if religious people dont consider it to be the same, then my question is completely wrong :p
Well, I am not religious, but I wouldnt liken the soul to conciousness. It would seem to me that the soul is somehting else in the organism. Perhaps the life force, the energy, I dont know, but some part distinct form the mind. Imagine emotion, its source, its unknowability. The mind cant fathom it. imagine a similar, abstract seat for a higher expresssion.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
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Ive tried to post this question on a swedish forum, with little success. So here I go again. Im an atheist and I want to know what religious people think of this: If I consume alcohol or drugs, my "soul" gets affected , and my personallity and ability to make decisions may be altered. So if the "soul" is some sort of magical/spiritual entity that is hosted in the body, how come it can be affected by the materia that you consume (the drug) ? This is not ment to provoke or anything, I just want to see if those who beleive in some sort of god/whatever have any explanation why materia can alter the soul
Body mind and soul. You are a unity of them. If anyone gets out of whack, then the rest suffer. As a lack of balance. Now to put more simply, your mind is a driving factor in your choices and actions, all of which go into the development of your soul. Theoretically your soul is the real you being developed. Uniting the physical you with an emerging developing spiritual you. Anything that corrupts that development, like detours in the mind, affects the soul. Now, what we haven't considered is that some drugs might in fact assist the soul's development.
This statement was never false.
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I think you are confusing the religious concept of a 'soul' with the psychological concept of the ego. Also it's not the 'who you are" that gets impaired by the drugs/alcohol but just your basic processing machinery. The brain, as an electro-chemical computing machine, just doesn't work the same when chemicals that interfere with it's normal operation are around in sufficient quantity. Nothing profound or mystical happening here, just you mucking up the machinery by feeding it bad chemicals.
Yepp, clearly some confusion from my side going on here :p I thought the religious meaning of soul was the same as the mind/ego/consiousness. So religious people beleive that the "ego" dies, and the "soul" lives on? in that case, what is associated with the soul then? to they/you beleive that memmories are carried on? or is it considered to be some "life power" that endables things to live, but has nothing to do with "you" This is turning out more insteresting than I thought :-)
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Ive tried to post this question on a swedish forum, with little success. So here I go again. Im an atheist and I want to know what religious people think of this: If I consume alcohol or drugs, my "soul" gets affected , and my personallity and ability to make decisions may be altered. So if the "soul" is some sort of magical/spiritual entity that is hosted in the body, how come it can be affected by the materia that you consume (the drug) ? This is not ment to provoke or anything, I just want to see if those who beleive in some sort of god/whatever have any explanation why materia can alter the soul
As a Christian, here is my answer. What we take into our bodies (eat, drink, inhale, etc.) is going to affect how our bodies function. As has been said, intoxicants with affect our ability to reason and otherwise function. As a Christian, I believe the soul is immortal and will continue to exist when my physical body dies. My physical body is a gift from God and should be treated according - "the body is the temple". If I abuse my body, I am abusing God's gift. Tim
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As a Christian, here is my answer. What we take into our bodies (eat, drink, inhale, etc.) is going to affect how our bodies function. As has been said, intoxicants with affect our ability to reason and otherwise function. As a Christian, I believe the soul is immortal and will continue to exist when my physical body dies. My physical body is a gift from God and should be treated according - "the body is the temple". If I abuse my body, I am abusing God's gift. Tim
Ok I still do not understand :-P What is associated with the soul? is it just the "life force"? , so when the body dies, the ego dies to, and all memmories and knowledge is lost? Im apparently completely ignorant in this area, just see the above threads where people mock me :)
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Im not on drugs, and I didnt think the question was too hard for this forum since there are usually quite a few intelligent people here. My questions is simple. if the "soul" (or consiousness for the atheists here) is some magical/spiritual entity that does not origin from the brain. then why can our soul be affected by drugs(alcohol is a drug too, for morally anal people here) if the "soul" was something that did not stem from our material world, then why is it affected by materia. It cant be that hard to grasp that question? There has to be atleast a few religious people here that can tell me their view on it?
Roger J wrote:
if the "soul" (or consiousness for the atheists here) is some magical/spiritual entity that does not origin from the brain.
Therein lies your answer. It *does* originate from the brain.
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Ok I still do not understand :-P What is associated with the soul? is it just the "life force"? , so when the body dies, the ego dies to, and all memmories and knowledge is lost? Im apparently completely ignorant in this area, just see the above threads where people mock me :)
I will get back to you.. I have two meetings to prep for...
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Yepp, clearly some confusion from my side going on here :p I thought the religious meaning of soul was the same as the mind/ego/consiousness. So religious people beleive that the "ego" dies, and the "soul" lives on? in that case, what is associated with the soul then? to they/you beleive that memmories are carried on? or is it considered to be some "life power" that endables things to live, but has nothing to do with "you" This is turning out more insteresting than I thought :-)
Roger J wrote:
So religious people beleive that the "ego" dies, and the "soul" lives on?
Sorry, can't speak to details for others, but it is my understanding that the concept's are not the same. I certainly would never use 'soul' in the context you did.
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Ive tried to post this question on a swedish forum, with little success. So here I go again. Im an atheist and I want to know what religious people think of this: If I consume alcohol or drugs, my "soul" gets affected , and my personallity and ability to make decisions may be altered. So if the "soul" is some sort of magical/spiritual entity that is hosted in the body, how come it can be affected by the materia that you consume (the drug) ? This is not ment to provoke or anything, I just want to see if those who beleive in some sort of god/whatever have any explanation why materia can alter the soul
Soul, spirit, breath of life... a precious gift, abused and discarded far too casually. But then, so are bodies. I'm not entirely clear on what you're asking, but i think your premise is faulty - why should drugs be so different from food or a blow to the head in their effects on your body and its needs, desires, capabilities...?
every night, i kneel at the foot of my bed and thank the Great Overseeing Politicians for protecting my freedoms by reducing their number, as if they were deer in a state park. -- Chris Losinger, Online Poker Players?
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Ive tried to post this question on a swedish forum, with little success. So here I go again. Im an atheist and I want to know what religious people think of this: If I consume alcohol or drugs, my "soul" gets affected , and my personallity and ability to make decisions may be altered. So if the "soul" is some sort of magical/spiritual entity that is hosted in the body, how come it can be affected by the materia that you consume (the drug) ? This is not ment to provoke or anything, I just want to see if those who beleive in some sort of god/whatever have any explanation why materia can alter the soul
The soul was invented by a french philosopher ( I forget which one, but as everyone knows the french do nothing but sit around drinking wine and talking crap all day it could have been any one of them ) Anwya this French bods argument goes something along the lines of man must have a soul or he would not get into heaven when he died and every dumbass knows that animals don't go to heaven therefore man has a soul and animals dont therefore man owns all the animals. Or in Red Dwarf terminology "Where would all the toasters go?" Actually the above mixes Decartes thoughts on the mind with the soul but then without the mind what would the soul be? -- modified at 13:15 Tuesday 18th September, 2007
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Ok I still do not understand :-P What is associated with the soul? is it just the "life force"? , so when the body dies, the ego dies to, and all memmories and knowledge is lost? Im apparently completely ignorant in this area, just see the above threads where people mock me :)
Think of it in terms of capacity and wavelengths. Physical vibrations are slow. Spiritual vibrations are fast. Hyper even. A soul is the developing construct to house the personality as it increases its capacity for faster vibrations as a balance of awareness and consciousness. Energy doesn't die. Your energy needs to be elevated though, sped up if you will, to increased capacities to endure a higher (faster vibration) form of experience. You are competing with entropy and the forces of that would slow your vibrations to that below the physical.
This statement was never false.
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Im not on drugs, and I didnt think the question was too hard for this forum since there are usually quite a few intelligent people here. My questions is simple. if the "soul" (or consiousness for the atheists here) is some magical/spiritual entity that does not origin from the brain. then why can our soul be affected by drugs(alcohol is a drug too, for morally anal people here) if the "soul" was something that did not stem from our material world, then why is it affected by materia. It cant be that hard to grasp that question? There has to be atleast a few religious people here that can tell me their view on it?
Roger J wrote:
Im not on drugs.
I was just yanking your chain. :)
Roger J wrote:
if the "soul" was something that did not stem from our material world, then why is it affected by materia.
If I were religious, I'd say that it isn't. The soul is only affected by Satan. :)
Man is a marvelous curiosity ... he thinks he is the Creator's pet ... he even believes the Creator loves him; has a passion for him; sits up nights to admire him; yes and watch over him and keep him out of trouble. He prays to him and thinks He listens. Isn't it a quaint idea. - Mark Twain
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Roger J wrote:
According to me
You say you're an atheist, which implies that you don't believe in the soul. Then you say that, "If I consume alcohol or drugs, my "soul" gets affected". So I thought you meant that this is something believed by religious people. My question was, "what religious source discusses the effects of alcohol and drugs on the soul"?
Roger J wrote:
Or do you consider the consiousness something separate from the "soul" ?
Yep, I'm also an atheist.
Man is a marvelous curiosity ... he thinks he is the Creator's pet ... he even believes the Creator loves him; has a passion for him; sits up nights to admire him; yes and watch over him and keep him out of trouble. He prays to him and thinks He listens. Isn't it a quaint idea. - Mark Twain
Al Beback wrote:
You say you're an atheist, which implies that you don't believe in the soul.
Is that necessarily true? Atheism is not believing in God. Does atheism imply not believing in souls automatically?
"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." - George Bernard Shaw Web - Blog - RSS - Math - LinkedIn - BM
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I think its perfectly possible to have a soul and still be an atheist. I consider the soul to be my consiousness, the "me" so to speak. however, I do not beleive the soul will leave my body and continue to exist when I die. I think my "soul" is the result of the processes in my brain. I guess its just a matter of definition, you might call it consiousness only. for me, thats the soul..
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Clearly the 'soul' is not the same as 'mind'. The mind might be effected by drugs, but, if there is a soul, it wont be. (Its an interesting point you have, it means the mind is almost incapable of understanding the soul because they are totally different in the same way the mind doesnt understand the body. (It feels its presence, but doesnt know how itworks, doesntknow any of its chemistry. (I mean natively here)).
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
fat_boy wrote:
The mind might be effected by drugs
:laugh::laugh:
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Al Beback wrote:
You say you're an atheist, which implies that you don't believe in the soul.
Is that necessarily true? Atheism is not believing in God. Does atheism imply not believing in souls automatically?
"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." - George Bernard Shaw Web - Blog - RSS - Math - LinkedIn - BM
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Does atheism imply not believing in souls automatically?
i think the soul is a philosophical concept. depending on the context, i think i could believe in a soul, but currently im not convinced...
[Insert Witty Sig Here]
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quoting myself: -- I think its perfectly possible to have a soul and still be an atheist. I consider the soul to be my consiousness, the "me" so to speak. however, I do not beleive the soul will leave my body and continue to exist when I die. I think my "soul" is the result of the processes in my brain. I guess its just a matter of definition, you might call it consiousness only. for me, thats the soul.. -- Dont the religious people consider the soul to be the same thing as I do? (except that they have another beleif of its origin and its mortality) or are they reffering to something compeltely different?
Roger J wrote:
I think my "soul" is the result of the processes in my brain. I guess its just a matter of definition, you might call it consiousness only. for me, thats the soul..
Then refer to it as consciousness or self awareness and quit using "soul" which implies all kinds of religious mumbo jumbo. :sigh:
Save an endangered species. The American Engineer.
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Im not on drugs, and I didnt think the question was too hard for this forum since there are usually quite a few intelligent people here. My questions is simple. if the "soul" (or consiousness for the atheists here) is some magical/spiritual entity that does not origin from the brain. then why can our soul be affected by drugs(alcohol is a drug too, for morally anal people here) if the "soul" was something that did not stem from our material world, then why is it affected by materia. It cant be that hard to grasp that question? There has to be atleast a few religious people here that can tell me their view on it?
Roger J wrote:
tell me their view on it?
When the pagans of Mecca sent a man to the Jews to seek advice on things to ask the Messenger of Allah about, they were given three matters: one of those matters was regarding the soul…
And they ask you concerning the Ruh (spirit/soul), Say: "The Ruh (the spirit/soul) is of the command of (also: knowledge restricted to) my Lord. And of knowledge, you (mankind) have been given only a little." Quran: Al-Israa|85Islam describes several situations where the soul will find itself such as how the soul is extracted from the body at the time of death, the life in the grave, and the resurrection etc… Though from an Islamic perspective, trying to find out the nature of the soul is a fruitless endeavor.Surah AlFurqan(Ayah 1-34) Who is the creator? Finding Allah (Video)
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Al Beback wrote:
You say you're an atheist, which implies that you don't believe in the soul.
Is that necessarily true? Atheism is not believing in God. Does atheism imply not believing in souls automatically?
"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." - George Bernard Shaw Web - Blog - RSS - Math - LinkedIn - BM
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Is that necessarily true? Atheism is not believing in God. Does atheism imply not believing in souls automatically?
I would say so. I've always understood soul as a spirit that currently inhabits our body, but will transcend our death. To most atheists, nothing comes after death, so there's nothing to transcend it.
Man is a marvelous curiosity ... he thinks he is the Creator's pet ... he even believes the Creator loves him; has a passion for him; sits up nights to admire him; yes and watch over him and keep him out of trouble. He prays to him and thinks He listens. Isn't it a quaint idea. - Mark Twain
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Is that necessarily true? Atheism is not believing in God. Does atheism imply not believing in souls automatically?
I would say so. I've always understood soul as a spirit that currently inhabits our body, but will transcend our death. To most atheists, nothing comes after death, so there's nothing to transcend it.
Man is a marvelous curiosity ... he thinks he is the Creator's pet ... he even believes the Creator loves him; has a passion for him; sits up nights to admire him; yes and watch over him and keep him out of trouble. He prays to him and thinks He listens. Isn't it a quaint idea. - Mark Twain