The soul and drugs
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Im not on drugs, and I didnt think the question was too hard for this forum since there are usually quite a few intelligent people here. My questions is simple. if the "soul" (or consiousness for the atheists here) is some magical/spiritual entity that does not origin from the brain. then why can our soul be affected by drugs(alcohol is a drug too, for morally anal people here) if the "soul" was something that did not stem from our material world, then why is it affected by materia. It cant be that hard to grasp that question? There has to be atleast a few religious people here that can tell me their view on it?
Roger J wrote:
if the "soul" (or consiousness for the atheists here) is some magical/spiritual entity that does not origin from the brain.
Therein lies your answer. It *does* originate from the brain.
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Ok I still do not understand :-P What is associated with the soul? is it just the "life force"? , so when the body dies, the ego dies to, and all memmories and knowledge is lost? Im apparently completely ignorant in this area, just see the above threads where people mock me :)
I will get back to you.. I have two meetings to prep for...
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Yepp, clearly some confusion from my side going on here :p I thought the religious meaning of soul was the same as the mind/ego/consiousness. So religious people beleive that the "ego" dies, and the "soul" lives on? in that case, what is associated with the soul then? to they/you beleive that memmories are carried on? or is it considered to be some "life power" that endables things to live, but has nothing to do with "you" This is turning out more insteresting than I thought :-)
Roger J wrote:
So religious people beleive that the "ego" dies, and the "soul" lives on?
Sorry, can't speak to details for others, but it is my understanding that the concept's are not the same. I certainly would never use 'soul' in the context you did.
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Ive tried to post this question on a swedish forum, with little success. So here I go again. Im an atheist and I want to know what religious people think of this: If I consume alcohol or drugs, my "soul" gets affected , and my personallity and ability to make decisions may be altered. So if the "soul" is some sort of magical/spiritual entity that is hosted in the body, how come it can be affected by the materia that you consume (the drug) ? This is not ment to provoke or anything, I just want to see if those who beleive in some sort of god/whatever have any explanation why materia can alter the soul
Soul, spirit, breath of life... a precious gift, abused and discarded far too casually. But then, so are bodies. I'm not entirely clear on what you're asking, but i think your premise is faulty - why should drugs be so different from food or a blow to the head in their effects on your body and its needs, desires, capabilities...?
every night, i kneel at the foot of my bed and thank the Great Overseeing Politicians for protecting my freedoms by reducing their number, as if they were deer in a state park. -- Chris Losinger, Online Poker Players?
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Ive tried to post this question on a swedish forum, with little success. So here I go again. Im an atheist and I want to know what religious people think of this: If I consume alcohol or drugs, my "soul" gets affected , and my personallity and ability to make decisions may be altered. So if the "soul" is some sort of magical/spiritual entity that is hosted in the body, how come it can be affected by the materia that you consume (the drug) ? This is not ment to provoke or anything, I just want to see if those who beleive in some sort of god/whatever have any explanation why materia can alter the soul
The soul was invented by a french philosopher ( I forget which one, but as everyone knows the french do nothing but sit around drinking wine and talking crap all day it could have been any one of them ) Anwya this French bods argument goes something along the lines of man must have a soul or he would not get into heaven when he died and every dumbass knows that animals don't go to heaven therefore man has a soul and animals dont therefore man owns all the animals. Or in Red Dwarf terminology "Where would all the toasters go?" Actually the above mixes Decartes thoughts on the mind with the soul but then without the mind what would the soul be? -- modified at 13:15 Tuesday 18th September, 2007
pseudonym67 My Articles[^] Beginning KDevelop Programming[^]
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Ok I still do not understand :-P What is associated with the soul? is it just the "life force"? , so when the body dies, the ego dies to, and all memmories and knowledge is lost? Im apparently completely ignorant in this area, just see the above threads where people mock me :)
Think of it in terms of capacity and wavelengths. Physical vibrations are slow. Spiritual vibrations are fast. Hyper even. A soul is the developing construct to house the personality as it increases its capacity for faster vibrations as a balance of awareness and consciousness. Energy doesn't die. Your energy needs to be elevated though, sped up if you will, to increased capacities to endure a higher (faster vibration) form of experience. You are competing with entropy and the forces of that would slow your vibrations to that below the physical.
This statement was never false.
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Im not on drugs, and I didnt think the question was too hard for this forum since there are usually quite a few intelligent people here. My questions is simple. if the "soul" (or consiousness for the atheists here) is some magical/spiritual entity that does not origin from the brain. then why can our soul be affected by drugs(alcohol is a drug too, for morally anal people here) if the "soul" was something that did not stem from our material world, then why is it affected by materia. It cant be that hard to grasp that question? There has to be atleast a few religious people here that can tell me their view on it?
Roger J wrote:
Im not on drugs.
I was just yanking your chain. :)
Roger J wrote:
if the "soul" was something that did not stem from our material world, then why is it affected by materia.
If I were religious, I'd say that it isn't. The soul is only affected by Satan. :)
Man is a marvelous curiosity ... he thinks he is the Creator's pet ... he even believes the Creator loves him; has a passion for him; sits up nights to admire him; yes and watch over him and keep him out of trouble. He prays to him and thinks He listens. Isn't it a quaint idea. - Mark Twain
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Roger J wrote:
According to me
You say you're an atheist, which implies that you don't believe in the soul. Then you say that, "If I consume alcohol or drugs, my "soul" gets affected". So I thought you meant that this is something believed by religious people. My question was, "what religious source discusses the effects of alcohol and drugs on the soul"?
Roger J wrote:
Or do you consider the consiousness something separate from the "soul" ?
Yep, I'm also an atheist.
Man is a marvelous curiosity ... he thinks he is the Creator's pet ... he even believes the Creator loves him; has a passion for him; sits up nights to admire him; yes and watch over him and keep him out of trouble. He prays to him and thinks He listens. Isn't it a quaint idea. - Mark Twain
Al Beback wrote:
You say you're an atheist, which implies that you don't believe in the soul.
Is that necessarily true? Atheism is not believing in God. Does atheism imply not believing in souls automatically?
"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." - George Bernard Shaw Web - Blog - RSS - Math - LinkedIn - BM
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I think its perfectly possible to have a soul and still be an atheist. I consider the soul to be my consiousness, the "me" so to speak. however, I do not beleive the soul will leave my body and continue to exist when I die. I think my "soul" is the result of the processes in my brain. I guess its just a matter of definition, you might call it consiousness only. for me, thats the soul..
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Clearly the 'soul' is not the same as 'mind'. The mind might be effected by drugs, but, if there is a soul, it wont be. (Its an interesting point you have, it means the mind is almost incapable of understanding the soul because they are totally different in the same way the mind doesnt understand the body. (It feels its presence, but doesnt know how itworks, doesntknow any of its chemistry. (I mean natively here)).
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
fat_boy wrote:
The mind might be effected by drugs
:laugh::laugh:
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Al Beback wrote:
You say you're an atheist, which implies that you don't believe in the soul.
Is that necessarily true? Atheism is not believing in God. Does atheism imply not believing in souls automatically?
"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." - George Bernard Shaw Web - Blog - RSS - Math - LinkedIn - BM
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Does atheism imply not believing in souls automatically?
i think the soul is a philosophical concept. depending on the context, i think i could believe in a soul, but currently im not convinced...
[Insert Witty Sig Here]
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quoting myself: -- I think its perfectly possible to have a soul and still be an atheist. I consider the soul to be my consiousness, the "me" so to speak. however, I do not beleive the soul will leave my body and continue to exist when I die. I think my "soul" is the result of the processes in my brain. I guess its just a matter of definition, you might call it consiousness only. for me, thats the soul.. -- Dont the religious people consider the soul to be the same thing as I do? (except that they have another beleif of its origin and its mortality) or are they reffering to something compeltely different?
Roger J wrote:
I think my "soul" is the result of the processes in my brain. I guess its just a matter of definition, you might call it consiousness only. for me, thats the soul..
Then refer to it as consciousness or self awareness and quit using "soul" which implies all kinds of religious mumbo jumbo. :sigh:
Save an endangered species. The American Engineer.
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Im not on drugs, and I didnt think the question was too hard for this forum since there are usually quite a few intelligent people here. My questions is simple. if the "soul" (or consiousness for the atheists here) is some magical/spiritual entity that does not origin from the brain. then why can our soul be affected by drugs(alcohol is a drug too, for morally anal people here) if the "soul" was something that did not stem from our material world, then why is it affected by materia. It cant be that hard to grasp that question? There has to be atleast a few religious people here that can tell me their view on it?
Roger J wrote:
tell me their view on it?
When the pagans of Mecca sent a man to the Jews to seek advice on things to ask the Messenger of Allah about, they were given three matters: one of those matters was regarding the soul…
And they ask you concerning the Ruh (spirit/soul), Say: "The Ruh (the spirit/soul) is of the command of (also: knowledge restricted to) my Lord. And of knowledge, you (mankind) have been given only a little." Quran: Al-Israa|85Islam describes several situations where the soul will find itself such as how the soul is extracted from the body at the time of death, the life in the grave, and the resurrection etc… Though from an Islamic perspective, trying to find out the nature of the soul is a fruitless endeavor.Surah AlFurqan(Ayah 1-34) Who is the creator? Finding Allah (Video)
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Al Beback wrote:
You say you're an atheist, which implies that you don't believe in the soul.
Is that necessarily true? Atheism is not believing in God. Does atheism imply not believing in souls automatically?
"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." - George Bernard Shaw Web - Blog - RSS - Math - LinkedIn - BM
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Is that necessarily true? Atheism is not believing in God. Does atheism imply not believing in souls automatically?
I would say so. I've always understood soul as a spirit that currently inhabits our body, but will transcend our death. To most atheists, nothing comes after death, so there's nothing to transcend it.
Man is a marvelous curiosity ... he thinks he is the Creator's pet ... he even believes the Creator loves him; has a passion for him; sits up nights to admire him; yes and watch over him and keep him out of trouble. He prays to him and thinks He listens. Isn't it a quaint idea. - Mark Twain
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Is that necessarily true? Atheism is not believing in God. Does atheism imply not believing in souls automatically?
I would say so. I've always understood soul as a spirit that currently inhabits our body, but will transcend our death. To most atheists, nothing comes after death, so there's nothing to transcend it.
Man is a marvelous curiosity ... he thinks he is the Creator's pet ... he even believes the Creator loves him; has a passion for him; sits up nights to admire him; yes and watch over him and keep him out of trouble. He prays to him and thinks He listens. Isn't it a quaint idea. - Mark Twain
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Roger J wrote:
I think my "soul" is the result of the processes in my brain. I guess its just a matter of definition, you might call it consiousness only. for me, thats the soul..
Then refer to it as consciousness or self awareness and quit using "soul" which implies all kinds of religious mumbo jumbo. :sigh:
Save an endangered species. The American Engineer.
Tim Craig wrote:
Then refer to it as consciousness or self awareness and quit using "soul" which implies all kinds of religious mumbo jumbo.
A bit authoritarian there... do you support freedom of speech?
This statement was never false.
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The soul was invented by a french philosopher ( I forget which one, but as everyone knows the french do nothing but sit around drinking wine and talking crap all day it could have been any one of them ) Anwya this French bods argument goes something along the lines of man must have a soul or he would not get into heaven when he died and every dumbass knows that animals don't go to heaven therefore man has a soul and animals dont therefore man owns all the animals. Or in Red Dwarf terminology "Where would all the toasters go?" Actually the above mixes Decartes thoughts on the mind with the soul but then without the mind what would the soul be? -- modified at 13:15 Tuesday 18th September, 2007
pseudonym67 My Articles[^] Beginning KDevelop Programming[^]
Actually soul appears in the old testament. Its a translation, but the concept didn't originate with the French Philosopher. Let’s begin with the Bible’s explanation of the "soul." The usual word for "soul" in the Old Testament is the Hebrew word transliterated by the letters nephesh or nepes. We will use nephesh. This word occurs over 750 times in the Old Testament. We find one example in Genesis 2:7: "The Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul [nephesh]" (King James Version). The New International Version says "man became a living being."
This statement was never false.
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
I disagree with that. I believe in God, but not in life after death.
Interesting. Please tell me about the God you believe in. What's he/she like? Also, why don't you believe in the afterlife? That's probably the number one reason people believe in God. Heck, even I wish there was an afterlife. The concept of eternal bliss sounds great, especially since life is so sh*tty for so many people in our planet.
Man is a marvelous curiosity ... he thinks he is the Creator's pet ... he even believes the Creator loves him; has a passion for him; sits up nights to admire him; yes and watch over him and keep him out of trouble. He prays to him and thinks He listens. Isn't it a quaint idea. - Mark Twain
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
I disagree with that. I believe in God, but not in life after death.
Interesting. Please tell me about the God you believe in. What's he/she like? Also, why don't you believe in the afterlife? That's probably the number one reason people believe in God. Heck, even I wish there was an afterlife. The concept of eternal bliss sounds great, especially since life is so sh*tty for so many people in our planet.
Man is a marvelous curiosity ... he thinks he is the Creator's pet ... he even believes the Creator loves him; has a passion for him; sits up nights to admire him; yes and watch over him and keep him out of trouble. He prays to him and thinks He listens. Isn't it a quaint idea. - Mark Twain
Al Beback wrote:
Interesting. Please tell me about the God you believe in. What's he/she like?
Do you have a definite answer? God is God.
Al Beback wrote:
Also, why don't you believe in the afterlife?
Let me think. Why would I believe in an afterlife that would last infinitely long? Why aren't we immortal here? If afterlife doesn't last infinitely long, then we do die eventually. It just means we have a few tries to get it right. Which by the way is really what the Druze (my official religion) believe in. I just don't believe in it myself. When you die, you die. It allows for people to be more responsible in this lifetime.
Al Beback wrote:
That's probably the number one reason people believe in God.
Or believe in their interpretation/understanding of God.
Al Beback wrote:
Heck, even I wish there was an afterlife. The concept of eternal bliss sounds great, especially since life is so sh*tty for so many people in our planet.
Go back to my second paragraph. Again, I believe God created us, life, the universe. What God is or believing in heaven, hell, or the soul is all hearsay.
"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." - George Bernard Shaw Web - Blog - RSS - Math - LinkedIn - BM
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Al Beback wrote:
Interesting. Please tell me about the God you believe in. What's he/she like?
Do you have a definite answer? God is God.
Al Beback wrote:
Also, why don't you believe in the afterlife?
Let me think. Why would I believe in an afterlife that would last infinitely long? Why aren't we immortal here? If afterlife doesn't last infinitely long, then we do die eventually. It just means we have a few tries to get it right. Which by the way is really what the Druze (my official religion) believe in. I just don't believe in it myself. When you die, you die. It allows for people to be more responsible in this lifetime.
Al Beback wrote:
That's probably the number one reason people believe in God.
Or believe in their interpretation/understanding of God.
Al Beback wrote:
Heck, even I wish there was an afterlife. The concept of eternal bliss sounds great, especially since life is so sh*tty for so many people in our planet.
Go back to my second paragraph. Again, I believe God created us, life, the universe. What God is or believing in heaven, hell, or the soul is all hearsay.
"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." - George Bernard Shaw Web - Blog - RSS - Math - LinkedIn - BM
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
God is God.
I asked because God takes on different "shapes", depending on who you ask. To some he's just the originator of the universe -- no further involvement. While to others he's omnipresent -- involved in every aspect of our daily lives. That's why they pray to him. Others believe he's perfect and omnipotent, which is paradoxical[^].
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
When you die, you die. It allows for people to be more responsible in this lifetime.
And to value life more. I wish everyone saw it that way.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Again, I believe God created us, life, the universe.
So then why is there so much suffering? Why can one child be born in a stable loving home, while hundreds are born in disease-ridden filth?
Man is a marvelous curiosity ... he thinks he is the Creator's pet ... he even believes the Creator loves him; has a passion for him; sits up nights to admire him; yes and watch over him and keep him out of trouble. He prays to him and thinks He listens. Isn't it a quaint idea. - Mark Twain