Microsoft free zone
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Hi, In the year 2012 Amsterdam can be (it's up to the city counsel to decide) a Microsoft free zone were all software will be replaced by open source software(Linux and Open Office etc.), a step that is previously taken by two other European cities (Munich and Vienna). In The Netherlands the usage of open software is promoted by the states economic department in an attempt to cut licences fees and it's expected that most state organisations will follow. Since this is becoming a European trend I think the impact will be huge for Microsoft and other companies such as Oracle. I was wondering if this is just taking place in Europe or it’s also taking place in other countries outside Europe? (and Microsoft is in the fight of losing a highly profitable market to open source software).
With friendly greetings,:) Eric Goedhart Interbritt
AFAIK, the Munich experiment was already in the implementation phase, and they found out that on the field costs were raising faster and faster, much more than planned. Probably estimates were quite biased. Hardware and software compatibility make the migration of existing databases sometimes difficult, and migrating non-techies brains is order of magnitudes harder. I don't really understand what the fuss about software licenses costs is. Ok, maybe MS Office is a bit overpriced (talking about retail costs here, I don't know anything about volume discounts), but there is no real need to update those packages every two years. Probably, a state-wide negotiation of MS licenses would give more economical benefits than a complete migration. But I'm not a politician.
Luca
The Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance.
En Það Besta Sem Guð Hefur Skapað, Er Nýr Dagur. But the best thing God has created, is a New Day.
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Hi, In the year 2012 Amsterdam can be (it's up to the city counsel to decide) a Microsoft free zone were all software will be replaced by open source software(Linux and Open Office etc.), a step that is previously taken by two other European cities (Munich and Vienna). In The Netherlands the usage of open software is promoted by the states economic department in an attempt to cut licences fees and it's expected that most state organisations will follow. Since this is becoming a European trend I think the impact will be huge for Microsoft and other companies such as Oracle. I was wondering if this is just taking place in Europe or it’s also taking place in other countries outside Europe? (and Microsoft is in the fight of losing a highly profitable market to open source software).
With friendly greetings,:) Eric Goedhart Interbritt
Eric Goedhart wrote:
open software is promoted by the states economic department in an attempt to cut licences fees
I don't quite understand why they think cutting the costs is a good idea. If they don't pay license fee's the only way programmers will get paid is from support fees. If the end users don't need support or use someone else then the programmers don't get paid. If the programmers don't get paid then the industry disappears and all this wonderful open source code is maintained by n00b hobby programmers or ex professional programmers who are miffed at having to get different jobs which they don't enjoy as much. Or am I missing something here? Please note I'm not arguing about open source being bad ... just people wanting the programmers to not get paid.
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You've got it wrong. Everyone will be using GoogleDocs and GMail while staying in touch with their GPhone so they can plan their GMeetings at the virtual GOffice. A few people on the fringe will be heckled for questioning why everyone is now using the same tools from the same company. They will be shouted down with "because we've broken the dominance of Microsoft!". Some of those few may even appreciate the irony.
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
Everyone will be using GoogleDocs and GMail while staying in touch with their GPhone so they can plan their GMeetings at the virtual GOffice.
Sipping Googleccinos :-D ([^]).
If you truly believe you need to pick a mobile phone that "says something" about your personality, don't bother. You don't have a personality. A mental illness, maybe - but not a personality. - Charlie Brooker My Blog - My Photos - ScrewTurn Wiki
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AFAIK, the Munich experiment was already in the implementation phase, and they found out that on the field costs were raising faster and faster, much more than planned. Probably estimates were quite biased. Hardware and software compatibility make the migration of existing databases sometimes difficult, and migrating non-techies brains is order of magnitudes harder. I don't really understand what the fuss about software licenses costs is. Ok, maybe MS Office is a bit overpriced (talking about retail costs here, I don't know anything about volume discounts), but there is no real need to update those packages every two years. Probably, a state-wide negotiation of MS licenses would give more economical benefits than a complete migration. But I'm not a politician.
Luca
The Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance.
En Það Besta Sem Guð Hefur Skapað, Er Nýr Dagur. But the best thing God has created, is a New Day.
Luca Leonardo Scorcia wrote:
But I'm not a politician.
The problem is that the politician tells some big manager to "cut costs". He asks his tech team. Someone yells "Why not use open-source software? I heard it's free and works just like Microsoft's!". They just strike out the licenses costs from the budget, leaving all the rest untouched. OK, maybe it doesn't work exactly like that, but I think I'm close. I strongly agree to cut the State administration costs, the problem is that who decides what to do probably has no idea how computers and software work, so in the end they waste (our) money.
If you truly believe you need to pick a mobile phone that "says something" about your personality, don't bother. You don't have a personality. A mental illness, maybe - but not a personality. - Charlie Brooker My Blog - My Photos - ScrewTurn Wiki
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Eric Goedhart wrote:
open software is promoted by the states economic department in an attempt to cut licences fees
I don't quite understand why they think cutting the costs is a good idea. If they don't pay license fee's the only way programmers will get paid is from support fees. If the end users don't need support or use someone else then the programmers don't get paid. If the programmers don't get paid then the industry disappears and all this wonderful open source code is maintained by n00b hobby programmers or ex professional programmers who are miffed at having to get different jobs which they don't enjoy as much. Or am I missing something here? Please note I'm not arguing about open source being bad ... just people wanting the programmers to not get paid.
originSH wrote:
Please note I'm not arguing about open source being bad ... just people wanting the programmers to not get paid.
I agree with that. If you look carefully, you'll notice that all "big" open source projects are just sponsored by Novell/Sun/IBM/Whatever, and they do it for their corporate image, not for charity or because they "believe in free knowledge". I recently read (perhaps in the Insider newsletter) that Red Hat is the only one having profit in selling support for their distro. All the others (SuSE, Mandriva, etc.) are losing heaps of money. Again, we're not discussing about the quality of open source software.
If you truly believe you need to pick a mobile phone that "says something" about your personality, don't bother. You don't have a personality. A mental illness, maybe - but not a personality. - Charlie Brooker My Blog - My Photos - ScrewTurn Wiki
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Hi, In the year 2012 Amsterdam can be (it's up to the city counsel to decide) a Microsoft free zone were all software will be replaced by open source software(Linux and Open Office etc.), a step that is previously taken by two other European cities (Munich and Vienna). In The Netherlands the usage of open software is promoted by the states economic department in an attempt to cut licences fees and it's expected that most state organisations will follow. Since this is becoming a European trend I think the impact will be huge for Microsoft and other companies such as Oracle. I was wondering if this is just taking place in Europe or it’s also taking place in other countries outside Europe? (and Microsoft is in the fight of losing a highly profitable market to open source software).
With friendly greetings,:) Eric Goedhart Interbritt
Eric Goedhart wrote:
were all software will be replaced by open source software
An image comes to mind. It's dinner time at 150 Geek Lane. Standing on the street, one can hardly tell that this government funded housing district is even lived in, except for the flicker of tallow candles seen dimly through the windows. A lonely geek, sitting on his dinner table in front of a plastic "laptop for everyone", cranks the hand powered generator, fires up his OS browser, reads the news and cheers quietly. He has been part of the open source movement that, through his years of toil and labor of love, without any monetary compensation, without even meeting another fellow OS programmer (don't even think the thought "woman"), has finally defeated the demon corporate monster. All he thinks is "Europe is free!" as he takes another bite from his rice bowl, rice purchased on his meager government food coupons. Marc
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originSH wrote:
Please note I'm not arguing about open source being bad ... just people wanting the programmers to not get paid.
I agree with that. If you look carefully, you'll notice that all "big" open source projects are just sponsored by Novell/Sun/IBM/Whatever, and they do it for their corporate image, not for charity or because they "believe in free knowledge". I recently read (perhaps in the Insider newsletter) that Red Hat is the only one having profit in selling support for their distro. All the others (SuSE, Mandriva, etc.) are losing heaps of money. Again, we're not discussing about the quality of open source software.
If you truly believe you need to pick a mobile phone that "says something" about your personality, don't bother. You don't have a personality. A mental illness, maybe - but not a personality. - Charlie Brooker My Blog - My Photos - ScrewTurn Wiki
Dario Solera wrote:
I agree with that. If you look carefully, you'll notice that all "big" open source projects are just sponsored by Novell/Sun/IBM/Whatever, and they do it for their corporate image, not for charity or because they "believe in free knowledge".
They also do it for the support fee's and supplying the needed hardware. They don't really care wether the money comes from licenses or "indirect" routes. It never ceases to amaze me when people are supprised that when they cut costs either the quality goes down or the cost reappears somewhere else. They must think that by cutting the cost it's only the vendors boardmembers who will take the hit :laugh:
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Eric Goedhart wrote:
were all software will be replaced by open source software
An image comes to mind. It's dinner time at 150 Geek Lane. Standing on the street, one can hardly tell that this government funded housing district is even lived in, except for the flicker of tallow candles seen dimly through the windows. A lonely geek, sitting on his dinner table in front of a plastic "laptop for everyone", cranks the hand powered generator, fires up his OS browser, reads the news and cheers quietly. He has been part of the open source movement that, through his years of toil and labor of love, without any monetary compensation, without even meeting another fellow OS programmer (don't even think the thought "woman"), has finally defeated the demon corporate monster. All he thinks is "Europe is free!" as he takes another bite from his rice bowl, rice purchased on his meager government food coupons. Marc
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no fair, your post is far more evocative than mine ;) are you sure you don't work in a government spin factory? :P
originSH wrote:
no fair, your post is far more evocative than mine
Sometimes an image is a thousand words. :)
originSH wrote:
are you sure you don't work in a government spin factory?
No, I've just been sitting through hours of listening to Clive Cussler's The Navigator[^] driving from NY to OH a few days ago. :) Marc
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Hi, In the year 2012 Amsterdam can be (it's up to the city counsel to decide) a Microsoft free zone were all software will be replaced by open source software(Linux and Open Office etc.), a step that is previously taken by two other European cities (Munich and Vienna). In The Netherlands the usage of open software is promoted by the states economic department in an attempt to cut licences fees and it's expected that most state organisations will follow. Since this is becoming a European trend I think the impact will be huge for Microsoft and other companies such as Oracle. I was wondering if this is just taking place in Europe or it’s also taking place in other countries outside Europe? (and Microsoft is in the fight of losing a highly profitable market to open source software).
With friendly greetings,:) Eric Goedhart Interbritt
IIRC Munich uses Linux systems using a VM to run Windows to run Office.
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|FoldWithUs! | sighist -
Hi, In the year 2012 Amsterdam can be (it's up to the city counsel to decide) a Microsoft free zone were all software will be replaced by open source software(Linux and Open Office etc.), a step that is previously taken by two other European cities (Munich and Vienna). In The Netherlands the usage of open software is promoted by the states economic department in an attempt to cut licences fees and it's expected that most state organisations will follow. Since this is becoming a European trend I think the impact will be huge for Microsoft and other companies such as Oracle. I was wondering if this is just taking place in Europe or it’s also taking place in other countries outside Europe? (and Microsoft is in the fight of losing a highly profitable market to open source software).
With friendly greetings,:) Eric Goedhart Interbritt
Large business will not risk using a product without a support contract, the cost for a support contract with a open source product is normally cheaper than MS licensing cost over say 5 years. But MS are willing to negation the cost to work out to be close to the open source choice, and due to the human nature of sticking to what we know, most business will not change (there is always the exceptions)... The IT industry will always want to make money, open source or not, open source is just a different model of charging and gives people the option to use it for free, which business won't do because it's to high risk not to have a support contract... I read somewhere that people use Microsoft because it's does not need any thought. So if open source products can give people a reason to think about the choice of using Microsoft, they may gain a bigger market share. It would be nice to see open source gain a bigger market share that equals Microsoft, at the end of the day - competition brings progress.
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Hi, In the year 2012 Amsterdam can be (it's up to the city counsel to decide) a Microsoft free zone were all software will be replaced by open source software(Linux and Open Office etc.), a step that is previously taken by two other European cities (Munich and Vienna). In The Netherlands the usage of open software is promoted by the states economic department in an attempt to cut licences fees and it's expected that most state organisations will follow. Since this is becoming a European trend I think the impact will be huge for Microsoft and other companies such as Oracle. I was wondering if this is just taking place in Europe or it’s also taking place in other countries outside Europe? (and Microsoft is in the fight of losing a highly profitable market to open source software).
With friendly greetings,:) Eric Goedhart Interbritt
Eric Goedhart wrote:
Amsterdam can be (it's up to the city counsel to decide) a Microsoft free zone
Isn't that a bit extreme? What happens if you live in Amsterdam and want to play on your XBox? Have the local wardens turned up and confiscated them before burning them in huge piles in the local city centre?
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
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IIRC Munich uses Linux systems using a VM to run Windows to run Office.
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|FoldWithUs! | sighistActually I thought they'd ditched the project altogether.
DoEvents: Generating unexpected recursion since 1991 -
Actually I thought they'd ditched the project altogether.
DoEvents: Generating unexpected recursion since 1991That was my impression as well. http://www.news.com/2100-1016-1010740.html http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04\_45/b3907083\_mz054.htm http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1000000121,39195204,00.htm http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1000000121,39260037,00.htm http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1000000121,39216394,00.htm But as of Oct 2006 http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/80071 things seem to be on schedule. Shrug :|
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
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Microsoft will never loose. More likely they will retarget their market and will stay in profit anyway. Sadly.
------------------------------------------------------------ Want to be happy - do what you like!
Never say never.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Andy Brummer wrote:
Watson's law: As an online discussion of cars grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving the Bugatti Veyron approaches one.
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Eric Goedhart wrote:
were all software will be replaced by open source software
An image comes to mind. It's dinner time at 150 Geek Lane. Standing on the street, one can hardly tell that this government funded housing district is even lived in, except for the flicker of tallow candles seen dimly through the windows. A lonely geek, sitting on his dinner table in front of a plastic "laptop for everyone", cranks the hand powered generator, fires up his OS browser, reads the news and cheers quietly. He has been part of the open source movement that, through his years of toil and labor of love, without any monetary compensation, without even meeting another fellow OS programmer (don't even think the thought "woman"), has finally defeated the demon corporate monster. All he thinks is "Europe is free!" as he takes another bite from his rice bowl, rice purchased on his meager government food coupons. Marc
Oh God, Marc. That is such dramatic bullshit. You should have taken up Mills & Boon writing :P
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Andy Brummer wrote:
Watson's law: As an online discussion of cars grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving the Bugatti Veyron approaches one.
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Never say never.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Andy Brummer wrote:
Watson's law: As an online discussion of cars grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving the Bugatti Veyron approaches one.
Wise wise Paul... You're absolutely right...
------------------------------------------------------------ Want to be happy - do what you like!
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Eric Goedhart wrote:
Amsterdam can be (it's up to the city counsel to decide) a Microsoft free zone
Isn't that a bit extreme? What happens if you live in Amsterdam and want to play on your XBox? Have the local wardens turned up and confiscated them before burning them in huge piles in the local city centre?
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
"Sir, your Windows laptop will be returned to you* when you exit the Microsof free zone. Here is your ticket." * After being reformatted with Ubuntu Red Light District Beaver Edition v69.96.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Andy Brummer wrote:
Watson's law: As an online discussion of cars grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving the Bugatti Veyron approaches one.
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Hi, In the year 2012 Amsterdam can be (it's up to the city counsel to decide) a Microsoft free zone were all software will be replaced by open source software(Linux and Open Office etc.), a step that is previously taken by two other European cities (Munich and Vienna). In The Netherlands the usage of open software is promoted by the states economic department in an attempt to cut licences fees and it's expected that most state organisations will follow. Since this is becoming a European trend I think the impact will be huge for Microsoft and other companies such as Oracle. I was wondering if this is just taking place in Europe or it’s also taking place in other countries outside Europe? (and Microsoft is in the fight of losing a highly profitable market to open source software).
With friendly greetings,:) Eric Goedhart Interbritt
Markets change. Companies change. Business models change. Revenue streams change. We'll be fine.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Andy Brummer wrote:
Watson's law: As an online discussion of cars grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving the Bugatti Veyron approaches one.
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Markets change. Companies change. Business models change. Revenue streams change. We'll be fine.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Andy Brummer wrote:
Watson's law: As an online discussion of cars grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving the Bugatti Veyron approaches one.
Paul Watson wrote:
Markets change. Companies change. Business models change. Revenue streams change.
Shift happens.
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.