VSS against the rules
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I know. The admin knows. We all know. Only the guys who make the decisions don't... X|
____________________________________ There is no proof for this sentence.
Rebel. Revolt. Stand on the barricades for a good thing!
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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VSS - the letoh ainrofilac of source control! :-D Permission system is not really working (as you figured out, there are a few other loopholes as well), Branching support is laughable, Merging dangerous, every UI operation keeps you guessing what will actually happen if you click OK, and the client is quick on mssing changes. But my coworkers insist on checkout/checkin. :sigh:
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|FoldWithUs! | sighistpeterchen wrote:
But my coworkers insist on checkout/checkin.
I think subversion has a checkout/checkin mode. I've read it in the docs, but I haven't used it because it's lame.
This blanket smells like ham
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Go on hunger strike until they install Vault or Subversion. Vault is a simple update that will save you much insanity.
Ryan Roberts wrote:
Go on hunger strike
We already practice this right? Right at the lunch hour only, the application will stop working demanding a high-alert attention. At the finishing of the investigation, the lunch would have been exhausted and you end up grabbing a Coke. :^)
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar Personal Homepage Tech Gossips
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VSS sucks so much that Microsoft don't use it internally, not even apparently the VSS team:laugh:. What they use instead would be interesting to know, mostly so I can avoid it.
Nothing is exactly what it seems but everything with seems can be unpicked.
Matthew Faithfull wrote:
What they use instead would be interesting to know
They should be using some other Very Safe Sourcecontrol but definitely not VSS.
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar Personal Homepage Tech Gossips
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VSS sucks so much that Microsoft don't use it internally, not even apparently the VSS team:laugh:. What they use instead would be interesting to know, mostly so I can avoid it.
Nothing is exactly what it seems but everything with seems can be unpicked.
I think they use a heavily modified Perforce, or something very similar.
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VSS - the letoh ainrofilac of source control! :-D Permission system is not really working (as you figured out, there are a few other loopholes as well), Branching support is laughable, Merging dangerous, every UI operation keeps you guessing what will actually happen if you click OK, and the client is quick on mssing changes. But my coworkers insist on checkout/checkin. :sigh:
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|FoldWithUs! | sighistpeterchen wrote:
But my coworkers insist on checkout/checkin.
Ugh, that scales much worse than edit/merge. Drove me absolutely mad the last time I used it after years of SVN and CVS. I stayed in late and ported the repository to subversion after about week 3.
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Replace with source safe version [x] Check out and keep changes Alright, I thought, trying to check out seems to be a comfortable way to keep my local changes. But when I clicked OK ... visual source safe checked out the file! I was amazed and thought our administrator had given me more rights. Maybe he just forgot to tell me. Then I tried to check-in the file and got an error box: I didn't have the right to check-in. So I'm allowed to check-out, but I'm not allowed to check-in again. Wonderful! I wrote to the administrator and he answered a few minutes later: "That damn thing really checked out the file though you don't have the permission. What should I do, give you read/write access, or reset the file's status?" Then he granted me the read-write permission to let me check-in the file. The VSS client didn't like that. I had to close and re-open the client to use my new permission. Then I asked the administrator to make me read-only again, before I could cause any more damage... Well, now I know a way to check-out files in an VSS database without permission. Just remove the write protection, open your VSS client, retrieve the latest version and choose "Check out and keep changes" for the file you want to block. It may stay blocked for a very long time, because I haven't yet found the second backdoor. You know ... the backdoor that checks in an illegally checked out file.
____________________________________ There is no proof for this sentence.
The biggest problem with VSS is that it is "free". It comes in MSDN, so nobody pays for it. If it were more expensive, I think the higher ups would consider other software. That being said, everyone has their opinions. Here, the decision makers claim to have had an issue with Vault and all the others. Microsoft was clearly the best product for us... Hogan
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Rebel. Revolt. Stand on the barricades for a good thing!
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
One day people will ask me "Why didn't you fight for better software, why did you work for those who install VSS?" Do you think I'll answer "I was young and needed the money"? Wrong! My answer will be: "I loved to watch them go down with their VSS. At home I had a fine Subversion."
Joergen Sigvardsson wrote:
Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
Kein Mitleid für den Massenmarkt: Kein Mitleid für die Käufer von Standard-Software.
____________________________________ There is no proof for this sentence.
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Replace with source safe version [x] Check out and keep changes Alright, I thought, trying to check out seems to be a comfortable way to keep my local changes. But when I clicked OK ... visual source safe checked out the file! I was amazed and thought our administrator had given me more rights. Maybe he just forgot to tell me. Then I tried to check-in the file and got an error box: I didn't have the right to check-in. So I'm allowed to check-out, but I'm not allowed to check-in again. Wonderful! I wrote to the administrator and he answered a few minutes later: "That damn thing really checked out the file though you don't have the permission. What should I do, give you read/write access, or reset the file's status?" Then he granted me the read-write permission to let me check-in the file. The VSS client didn't like that. I had to close and re-open the client to use my new permission. Then I asked the administrator to make me read-only again, before I could cause any more damage... Well, now I know a way to check-out files in an VSS database without permission. Just remove the write protection, open your VSS client, retrieve the latest version and choose "Check out and keep changes" for the file you want to block. It may stay blocked for a very long time, because I haven't yet found the second backdoor. You know ... the backdoor that checks in an illegally checked out file.
____________________________________ There is no proof for this sentence.
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One day people will ask me "Why didn't you fight for better software, why did you work for those who install VSS?" Do you think I'll answer "I was young and needed the money"? Wrong! My answer will be: "I loved to watch them go down with their VSS. At home I had a fine Subversion."
Joergen Sigvardsson wrote:
Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
Kein Mitleid für den Massenmarkt: Kein Mitleid für die Käufer von Standard-Software.
____________________________________ There is no proof for this sentence.
They ought to rename VSS to WSS on the German market. Wertlos Standard-Software. Was denkst du? ;)
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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VSS - the letoh ainrofilac of source control! :-D Permission system is not really working (as you figured out, there are a few other loopholes as well), Branching support is laughable, Merging dangerous, every UI operation keeps you guessing what will actually happen if you click OK, and the client is quick on mssing changes. But my coworkers insist on checkout/checkin. :sigh:
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|FoldWithUs! | sighistpeterchen wrote:
But my coworkers insist on checkout/checkin.
Try to make your coworkers better by showing them the wonderful tool known as Tortoise Merge. If that fails: get better coworkers (using preferred methods).
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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peterchen wrote:
But my coworkers insist on checkout/checkin.
I think subversion has a checkout/checkin mode. I've read it in the docs, but I haven't used it because it's lame.
This blanket smells like ham
Andy Brummer wrote:
because it's lame.
SVN, checkout/checkin mode, or reading docs? :D
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|FoldWithUs! | sighist -
Andy Brummer wrote:
because it's lame.
SVN, checkout/checkin mode, or reading docs? :D
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|FoldWithUs! | sighistThe second two. :doh:
This blanket smells like ham
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peterchen wrote:
Permission system is not really working
That point scares me a little. The VSS permission system was developed my Microsoft, was it? They also developed the permission systems of Windows, Exchange, [insert MS project of you choice] and so on. What if only the UI developers have failed for VSS ... and the permission leaks are the same in every product? Since I got to know VSS I can't trust MS products anymore. :suss:
____________________________________ There is no proof for this sentence.
It looks very much fitted on top of an existing system, which rarely can succeed. They probably secured the outside calls, but some inner cross-calls slipped through. The only chance would be fitting it on bottom, but that's usually a problem because you don't have the necessary information at that point. VSS is one of the more neglected softwares by Microsoft, always being semi-abandoned. Some stuff works well, some stuff works usually well, and some stuff you better avoid.
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|FoldWithUs! | sighist -
peterchen wrote:
But my coworkers insist on checkout/checkin.
Ugh, that scales much worse than edit/merge. Drove me absolutely mad the last time I used it after years of SVN and CVS. I stayed in late and ported the repository to subversion after about week 3.
How many people you are talking about? We are 4 here, on a large shared code base with fairly distinct responsibilities, so clashes are very rare. There's maybe a once-a-month call of "please checkin", which is ok, and everybody does remember to check in (usually). It doesn't scale all right, but I see why they prefer it - the actual value is the automatic "someone is changing this file, do you really want to change it, too" reminder, and merge requires a decision about code written by someone else. It also works only with good VS integration - just start typing, and it asks you if you want to check out this file, right-click and say "checkin". Would be a pain always having to switch to explorer. OTOH, merge puts a "Think!" reminder on the 'submit' process, stopping mindless checkins. (But as said, we work fairly well with it).
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|FoldWithUs! | sighist -
peterchen wrote:
But my coworkers insist on checkout/checkin.
Try to make your coworkers better by showing them the wonderful tool known as Tortoise Merge. If that fails: get better coworkers (using preferred methods).
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
I've tried to enable "concurrent checkouts" which seemed the best of two worlds: you get a reminder that someone else is already working on the file, but you can still merge (which is also fairly ok with the latest VSS update). They almost went ballistic. Can't blame them, they are engineers by profesison...
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|FoldWithUs! | sighist -
I've tried to enable "concurrent checkouts" which seemed the best of two worlds: you get a reminder that someone else is already working on the file, but you can still merge (which is also fairly ok with the latest VSS update). They almost went ballistic. Can't blame them, they are engineers by profesison...
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|FoldWithUs! | sighistBut if they're engineers, you only have to show how it works and that it does work. :)
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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How many people you are talking about? We are 4 here, on a large shared code base with fairly distinct responsibilities, so clashes are very rare. There's maybe a once-a-month call of "please checkin", which is ok, and everybody does remember to check in (usually). It doesn't scale all right, but I see why they prefer it - the actual value is the automatic "someone is changing this file, do you really want to change it, too" reminder, and merge requires a decision about code written by someone else. It also works only with good VS integration - just start typing, and it asks you if you want to check out this file, right-click and say "checkin". Would be a pain always having to switch to explorer. OTOH, merge puts a "Think!" reminder on the 'submit' process, stopping mindless checkins. (But as said, we work fairly well with it).
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|FoldWithUs! | sighistI guess it depends on your codebase and how whether you have developers assigned to discrete areas. Merge doesn't require intervention 99% of the time, once you get used to it you care less about editing the same files. I can see how that would be worrying though.
peterchen wrote:
Would be a pain always having to switch to explorer.
Ankhsvn works well now (except with 2005 web projects) and does a good job of svn integration.
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But if they're engineers, you only have to show how it works and that it does work. :)
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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They ought to rename VSS to WSS on the German market. Wertlos Standard-Software. Was denkst du? ;)
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
Virales Standard-System is okay, it even fits in English: viral standard system. Anyway, for the German market I'd prefer IQV: Ignorante Quellenverwaltung. To speak "modern Denglish", it must be SSS: Schrottige Sourcen-Schleuder. :laugh:
____________________________________ There is no proof for this sentence.