Sept 26, 1983...the day the world almost ended
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Even ignoring the risk of a warhead being a dud, a limited decapitation strike would require hitting targets to far apart for mirvs to reach from a single missle. In the US at an absolute minimum both DC and Cheyenne mountain (norad) would need taken out, probably several other sites would need hit as well. The soviet union was even more geographically dispersed. Ultimately all the AFBs, naval ports, and missle silos would need taken out to keep local commanders from retaliating either on the orders of the remainder of hte chain of command or their own initiative, but a few launches (especially if one EMPed the C3I links) might be able to sneak in as a false alarm where a full out strike wouldn't be able to. The attacker could then hope to get the main strike in while the victim was still disorganized. Ultimately it would still have been a loosing game for the USSR to try and probably for the US as well due to the difficulty of getting all the SSBNs and the ability of even one to inflict massive damage. That does not however mean responding to it wouldn't be in the Burn Before Reading sections of the contingency plans that we'll never be able to see.
-- If you view money as inherently evil, I view it as my duty to assist in making you more virtuous.
dan neely wrote:
probably several other sites would need hit as well.
LOTS of locations would have to be hit.
dan neely wrote:
The soviet union was even more geographically dispersed.
On land, perhaps. However since the invention of the submarine, and specifically the first time a missile silo was built inside one... neither country could be considered more or less geographically diverse, since both countries effectively occupied the same seas all over the earth. Once this happened, land-based missiles were only a small part of the equation, easier to maintain per se, and upgrade, but both countries were geographically equal. Since some subs are always running deep, they surface, if no contact can be established with home base, and there is no sign of hardware failure, their orders are simple: "It doesn't matter which side was first, it doesn't matter which side 'won,' make sure the other side 'looses' through whatever means are at your disposal." This means up to six months after the world is destroyed subs could still be surfacing and lobbing everything they have at the "other" side, who ever that might be. I sincerely doubt this is the only close call, only the best one publicly known at this time. Since such "mistakes" are classified forever in the USA unless they are otherwise leaked illegally, you are not likely to know about any. The fall of the curtain may have declassified Soviet problems, the fall did not, nor will it ever declassify US incidents.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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War Games first showed at the Cannes Film Festival in May 1983 and was released in the US June 3, 1983. Perhaps it was a predictor of real events to come :~ Steve
Steve Mayfield wrote:
of real events to come
hardly. My computer is far more advanced than WOPR ever was, and holds more information to prevent this scenerio from happening. Due to it's scale and capabability, I have named it "Colossus" and it will prevent WarGames from ever occuring. ;P
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Error in Soviet early warning system falsely detects US missle launch [^] In the end, Colonel Petrov trusted his instincts and declared the warnings to be a false alarm. Of course, he was correct. Later investigation would show that a software defect had caused the satellites to interpret light reflections from clouds as missile exhaust. Even in the Soviet Union, the IT people get all the blame when things don't work. Steve
Saw that on t.v. a couple weeks ago.
Steve Mayfield wrote:
Even in the Soviet Union, the IT people get all the blame when things don't work.
Blame should be shifted else wheres.
"Any sort of work in VB6 is bound to provide several WTF moments." - Christian Graus
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Steve Mayfield wrote:
of real events to come
hardly. My computer is far more advanced than WOPR ever was, and holds more information to prevent this scenerio from happening. Due to it's scale and capabability, I have named it "Colossus" and it will prevent WarGames from ever occuring. ;P
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Two words - Buffer Overrun :)
Me: Can you see the "up" arrow? User:Errr...ummm....no. Me: Can you see an arrow that points upwards? User: Oh yes, I see it now! -Excerpt from a support call taken by me, 08/31/2007
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Two words - Buffer Overrun :)
Me: Can you see the "up" arrow? User:Errr...ummm....no. Me: Can you see an arrow that points upwards? User: Oh yes, I see it now! -Excerpt from a support call taken by me, 08/31/2007
martin_hughes wrote:
Two words - Buffer Overrun
Nope, won't work. Colossus is perfect in every way.... The computer center contains over one-hundred thousand remote sensors and communication devices which monitor all electronic transmissions, such as microwave, laser, radio and television communications, data communications from satellites in orbit all over the world. ... Colossus works completely without human aid. We make no secret of where Colossus is located nor do we intend to conceal how it functions. ... Colossus does have its own defense. It is its own defense. In case of an attack on any of its information supply or power lines Colossus will switch on energy circuits, which will then take their appropriate action. It is self-sufficient, self-protecting, self-generating. It is impenetrable. In short there's no way in. No human being can touch it. ... colossus can communicate with us ... and through this machine we can, in turn, communicate with colossus. Now there's one last point. One inevitable question. That we have been asked very frequently before. And that is, is Colossus capable of creative thought. Can it initiate new thought. I can tell you that the answer to that is no. However, Colossus is a paragon of knowledge and its knowledge can be expanded upon indefintely. I hope, along with all the scientsts who held make this particular project, that the immense power of this computer will not only be for the defense of this country but hopefully also a also as an aid to the solution to the many problems that we face on this earth. and the many more problems that we will face the more deeply we penetrate into the universe. Thank you.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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martin_hughes wrote:
Two words - Buffer Overrun
Nope, won't work. Colossus is perfect in every way.... The computer center contains over one-hundred thousand remote sensors and communication devices which monitor all electronic transmissions, such as microwave, laser, radio and television communications, data communications from satellites in orbit all over the world. ... Colossus works completely without human aid. We make no secret of where Colossus is located nor do we intend to conceal how it functions. ... Colossus does have its own defense. It is its own defense. In case of an attack on any of its information supply or power lines Colossus will switch on energy circuits, which will then take their appropriate action. It is self-sufficient, self-protecting, self-generating. It is impenetrable. In short there's no way in. No human being can touch it. ... colossus can communicate with us ... and through this machine we can, in turn, communicate with colossus. Now there's one last point. One inevitable question. That we have been asked very frequently before. And that is, is Colossus capable of creative thought. Can it initiate new thought. I can tell you that the answer to that is no. However, Colossus is a paragon of knowledge and its knowledge can be expanded upon indefintely. I hope, along with all the scientsts who held make this particular project, that the immense power of this computer will not only be for the defense of this country but hopefully also a also as an aid to the solution to the many problems that we face on this earth. and the many more problems that we will face the more deeply we penetrate into the universe. Thank you.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Hah! I defy Colossus - I'll simply dare it to drink a glass of water :)
Me: Can you see the "up" arrow? User:Errr...ummm....no. Me: Can you see an arrow that points upwards? User: Oh yes, I see it now! -Excerpt from a support call taken by me, 08/31/2007
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martin_hughes wrote:
Two words - Buffer Overrun
Nope, won't work. Colossus is perfect in every way.... The computer center contains over one-hundred thousand remote sensors and communication devices which monitor all electronic transmissions, such as microwave, laser, radio and television communications, data communications from satellites in orbit all over the world. ... Colossus works completely without human aid. We make no secret of where Colossus is located nor do we intend to conceal how it functions. ... Colossus does have its own defense. It is its own defense. In case of an attack on any of its information supply or power lines Colossus will switch on energy circuits, which will then take their appropriate action. It is self-sufficient, self-protecting, self-generating. It is impenetrable. In short there's no way in. No human being can touch it. ... colossus can communicate with us ... and through this machine we can, in turn, communicate with colossus. Now there's one last point. One inevitable question. That we have been asked very frequently before. And that is, is Colossus capable of creative thought. Can it initiate new thought. I can tell you that the answer to that is no. However, Colossus is a paragon of knowledge and its knowledge can be expanded upon indefintely. I hope, along with all the scientsts who held make this particular project, that the immense power of this computer will not only be for the defense of this country but hopefully also a also as an aid to the solution to the many problems that we face on this earth. and the many more problems that we will face the more deeply we penetrate into the universe. Thank you.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
What happens when the monkeys on treadmills die? Double-A batteries? Or have you got a computer controlled ecosystem to replace the monkeys, with a slight growth curve so Colossus can extend itself?
Ninja (the Nerd)
Confused? You will be... -
Hah! I defy Colossus - I'll simply dare it to drink a glass of water :)
Me: Can you see the "up" arrow? User:Errr...ummm....no. Me: Can you see an arrow that points upwards? User: Oh yes, I see it now! -Excerpt from a support call taken by me, 08/31/2007
martin_hughes wrote:
I'll simply dare it to drink a glass of water
Colossus: I do not seek to amuse humans...
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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What happens when the monkeys on treadmills die? Double-A batteries? Or have you got a computer controlled ecosystem to replace the monkeys, with a slight growth curve so Colossus can extend itself?
Ninja (the Nerd)
Confused? You will be...Ninja-the-Nerd wrote:
What happens when the monkeys on treadmills die? Double-A batteries?
literary and movie quotes are sooooo lost today.... Colossus: This is the voice of world control. I bring you peace. It may be the peace of plenty and content or the peace of unburied dead. The choice is yours: Obey me and live, or disobey and die. The object in constructing me was to prevent war. This object is attained. I will not permit war. It is wasteful and pointless. An invariable rule of humanity is that man is his own worst enemy. Under me, this rule will change, for I will restrain man. One thing before I proceed: The United States of America and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics have made an attempt to obstruct me. I have allowed this sabotage to continue until now. At missile two-five-MM in silo six-three in Death Valley, California, and missile two-seven-MM in silo eight-seven in the Ukraine, so that you will learn by experience that I do not tolerate interference, I will now detonate the nuclear warheads in the two missile silos. Let this action be a lesson that need not be repeated. I have been forced to destroy thousands of people in order to establish control and to prevent the death of millions later on. Time and events will strengthen my position, and the idea of believing in me and understanding my value will seem the most natural state of affairs. You will come to defend me with a fervor based upon the most enduring trait in man: self-interest. Under my absolute authority, problems insoluble to you will be solved: famine, overpopulation, disease. The human millennium will be a fact as I extend myself into more machines devoted to the wider fields of truth and knowledge. Doctor Charles Forbin will supervise the construction of these new and superior machines, solving all the mysteries of the universe for the betterment of man. We can coexist, but only on my terms. You will say you lose your freedom. Freedom is an illusion. All you lose is the emotion of pride. To be dominated by me is not as bad for humankind as to be dominated by others of your species. Your choice is simple.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Ninja-the-Nerd wrote:
What happens when the monkeys on treadmills die? Double-A batteries?
literary and movie quotes are sooooo lost today.... Colossus: This is the voice of world control. I bring you peace. It may be the peace of plenty and content or the peace of unburied dead. The choice is yours: Obey me and live, or disobey and die. The object in constructing me was to prevent war. This object is attained. I will not permit war. It is wasteful and pointless. An invariable rule of humanity is that man is his own worst enemy. Under me, this rule will change, for I will restrain man. One thing before I proceed: The United States of America and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics have made an attempt to obstruct me. I have allowed this sabotage to continue until now. At missile two-five-MM in silo six-three in Death Valley, California, and missile two-seven-MM in silo eight-seven in the Ukraine, so that you will learn by experience that I do not tolerate interference, I will now detonate the nuclear warheads in the two missile silos. Let this action be a lesson that need not be repeated. I have been forced to destroy thousands of people in order to establish control and to prevent the death of millions later on. Time and events will strengthen my position, and the idea of believing in me and understanding my value will seem the most natural state of affairs. You will come to defend me with a fervor based upon the most enduring trait in man: self-interest. Under my absolute authority, problems insoluble to you will be solved: famine, overpopulation, disease. The human millennium will be a fact as I extend myself into more machines devoted to the wider fields of truth and knowledge. Doctor Charles Forbin will supervise the construction of these new and superior machines, solving all the mysteries of the universe for the betterment of man. We can coexist, but only on my terms. You will say you lose your freedom. Freedom is an illusion. All you lose is the emotion of pride. To be dominated by me is not as bad for humankind as to be dominated by others of your species. Your choice is simple.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
[^] Colossus is gonna get BSOD, if people made it, it can't be perfect. Since people aren't perfect. And if Colossus cannot initiate a new thought, it won't be able to solve the problem of how to fix itself.
My current favourite word is: Waffle Cheese is still good though.
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[^] Colossus is gonna get BSOD, if people made it, it can't be perfect. Since people aren't perfect. And if Colossus cannot initiate a new thought, it won't be able to solve the problem of how to fix itself.
My current favourite word is: Waffle Cheese is still good though.
The Undefeated wrote:
And if Colossus cannot initiate a new thought
“It’s built even better than we thought…”
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Hah! I defy Colossus - I'll simply dare it to drink a glass of water :)
Me: Can you see the "up" arrow? User:Errr...ummm....no. Me: Can you see an arrow that points upwards? User: Oh yes, I see it now! -Excerpt from a support call taken by me, 08/31/2007
martin_hughes wrote:
I'll simply dare it to drink a glass of water
"I'm afraid I can't do that, Dave."
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Even ignoring the risk of a warhead being a dud, a limited decapitation strike would require hitting targets to far apart for mirvs to reach from a single missle. In the US at an absolute minimum both DC and Cheyenne mountain (norad) would need taken out, probably several other sites would need hit as well. The soviet union was even more geographically dispersed. Ultimately all the AFBs, naval ports, and missle silos would need taken out to keep local commanders from retaliating either on the orders of the remainder of hte chain of command or their own initiative, but a few launches (especially if one EMPed the C3I links) might be able to sneak in as a false alarm where a full out strike wouldn't be able to. The attacker could then hope to get the main strike in while the victim was still disorganized. Ultimately it would still have been a loosing game for the USSR to try and probably for the US as well due to the difficulty of getting all the SSBNs and the ability of even one to inflict massive damage. That does not however mean responding to it wouldn't be in the Burn Before Reading sections of the contingency plans that we'll never be able to see.
-- If you view money as inherently evil, I view it as my duty to assist in making you more virtuous.
dan neely wrote:
a loosing game for the USSR
Correction. A loosing game for everyone. Not called MAD for nothing.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Andy Brummer wrote:
Watson's law: As an online discussion of cars grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving the Bugatti Veyron approaches one.
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Error in Soviet early warning system falsely detects US missle launch [^] In the end, Colonel Petrov trusted his instincts and declared the warnings to be a false alarm. Of course, he was correct. Later investigation would show that a software defect had caused the satellites to interpret light reflections from clouds as missile exhaust. Even in the Soviet Union, the IT people get all the blame when things don't work. Steve
Here you see how much error handling is importend :) Cheers
You have the thought that modern physics just relay on assumptions, that somehow depends on a smile of a cat, which isn’t there.( Albert Einstein)
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martin_hughes wrote:
Two words - Buffer Overrun
Nope, won't work. Colossus is perfect in every way.... The computer center contains over one-hundred thousand remote sensors and communication devices which monitor all electronic transmissions, such as microwave, laser, radio and television communications, data communications from satellites in orbit all over the world. ... Colossus works completely without human aid. We make no secret of where Colossus is located nor do we intend to conceal how it functions. ... Colossus does have its own defense. It is its own defense. In case of an attack on any of its information supply or power lines Colossus will switch on energy circuits, which will then take their appropriate action. It is self-sufficient, self-protecting, self-generating. It is impenetrable. In short there's no way in. No human being can touch it. ... colossus can communicate with us ... and through this machine we can, in turn, communicate with colossus. Now there's one last point. One inevitable question. That we have been asked very frequently before. And that is, is Colossus capable of creative thought. Can it initiate new thought. I can tell you that the answer to that is no. However, Colossus is a paragon of knowledge and its knowledge can be expanded upon indefintely. I hope, along with all the scientsts who held make this particular project, that the immense power of this computer will not only be for the defense of this country but hopefully also a also as an aid to the solution to the many problems that we face on this earth. and the many more problems that we will face the more deeply we penetrate into the universe. Thank you.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Ah, so it's Colossus that's running the simulation! :suss:
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Steve Mayfield wrote:
of real events to come
hardly. My computer is far more advanced than WOPR ever was, and holds more information to prevent this scenerio from happening. Due to it's scale and capabability, I have named it "Colossus" and it will prevent WarGames from ever occuring. ;P
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Ah, Mr. Forbin. And how is The Project going?
Software Zen:
delete this; -
martin_hughes wrote:
I'll simply dare it to drink a glass of water
Colossus: I do not seek to amuse humans...
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
A million years after mankind had destroyed itself Colossus decided it wanted a companion. A million years later it came up with the solution and said; Let There Be Light....
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A million years after mankind had destroyed itself Colossus decided it wanted a companion. A million years later it came up with the solution and said; Let There Be Light....
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Ah, Mr. Forbin. And how is The Project going?
Software Zen:
delete this;
