Am I the only one that actually *LIKES* Vista?
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Not trying to sell it. These are things I like. And by "I could easily do without it", I mean that I like it, but it's not critical. I wish they had actually rewritten the OS.
-- Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?
Well, if you had to sell it, what could you say?
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Andy Brummer wrote:
Watson's law: As an online discussion of cars grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving the Bugatti Veyron approaches one.
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Heh. I think about Linux a lot when using Vista. Keep in mind: i used to be a pretty heavy Linux user (SuSE... ahhh), but haven't really touched it in over seven years now. 'Thing is, back when i was really fired up about Linux (say, '98, '99...), i'd recommend it to someone and hit the same complaints, over and over again: "it won't run Word or my favorite games", "i don't know where anything is", "printing doesn't work", "i hate having to log on as a different user in order to install stuff / change settings". You know, basically the same stuff that people are griping about with Vista now. So really, Microsoft had ten years and three major OS releases to work this out, introduce the stuff slowly, get folks used to it, get programmers used to it, deal with the hardware issues. And instead, they pulled a '90s hacker move and dumped it all on at once, with "if you don't like it, it's your fault for living in the past" as the answer to complaints. Yay. We won. :rolleyes:
every night, i kneel at the foot of my bed and thank the Great Overseeing Politicians for protecting my freedoms by reducing their number, as if they were deer in a state park. -- Chris Losinger, Online Poker Players?
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Well, if you had to sell it, what could you say?
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Andy Brummer wrote:
Watson's law: As an online discussion of cars grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving the Bugatti Veyron approaches one.
I think the fact that I hate going back to XP says it all.
-- Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?
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Well said, I couldn't even play music because of the DRM built into Vista my music would studder. -- modified at 18:56 Friday 26th October, 2007
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I find that highly unlikely. Not that you experienced that, but that it was because of DRM. Most likely it was something else. Drivers, most likely.
-- Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?
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I think the fact that I hate going back to XP says it all.
-- Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?
Not really. But anyway. Enjoy Vista. Glad at least one person outside of the dev team likes it :)
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Andy Brummer wrote:
Watson's law: As an online discussion of cars grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving the Bugatti Veyron approaches one.
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Yes.
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|FoldWithUs! | sighistOh just wait, how many CD burns did it screw up.. Oh hang on, it actually boots longer than anything I have ever seen. Nah, it is the Explorer that makes the view so screwed up, but wait, it is actually failing to update itself from Windows Update... But hats off to them for pulling it off yet again with those results, making money and taking everyone to the park. And imho, the inventor of the "install, uninstall, profit" web slogan was right. Just look at the 'mind-blowing' reasoning for a decision not to 'productise' Windows 7 and putting it off till after 2010, while every Linux user is dying for just that, thin, LEAN_AND_MEAN and on-demand, user-choice of bloatable OS. Wonderful! -- modified at 19:45 Friday 26th October, 2007
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I find that highly unlikely. Not that you experienced that, but that it was because of DRM. Most likely it was something else. Drivers, most likely.
-- Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
Not that you experienced that, but that it was because of DRM.
I snooped around in the task manager and noticed an executable using 100% of one of my processor's cores, however it did not always peg out my processor, but when it did my music would stutter. The executable was a pipeline for protected content that prevented copying of protected content I forget what it is now. I'm sure it was the cause.
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Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
Not that you experienced that, but that it was because of DRM.
I snooped around in the task manager and noticed an executable using 100% of one of my processor's cores, however it did not always peg out my processor, but when it did my music would stutter. The executable was a pipeline for protected content that prevented copying of protected content I forget what it is now. I'm sure it was the cause.
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Sorry, don't buy it. Why? 1) DRM runs at the kernel level. There wouldn't be an executable using up 100% of the CPU, other than the system process. 2) Any user-mode helper code would be DLL's running in a service host, or in the context of Windows Media player or the like. It wouldn't be a stand-alone executable. 3) Even if a process was eating up 100% of the CPU, it's probably still a driver issue.
-- Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?
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Oh just wait, how many CD burns did it screw up.. Oh hang on, it actually boots longer than anything I have ever seen. Nah, it is the Explorer that makes the view so screwed up, but wait, it is actually failing to update itself from Windows Update... But hats off to them for pulling it off yet again with those results, making money and taking everyone to the park. And imho, the inventor of the "install, uninstall, profit" web slogan was right. Just look at the 'mind-blowing' reasoning for a decision not to 'productise' Windows 7 and putting it off till after 2010, while every Linux user is dying for just that, thin, LEAN_AND_MEAN and on-demand, user-choice of bloatable OS. Wonderful! -- modified at 19:45 Friday 26th October, 2007
Uhh... CD burns screwed up? What planet have you been living on for the last 7 years? All burners in this millenium have buffer underrun protection, which makes it impossible for a burn to be 'screwed up', unless the drive itself is malfunctioning. And as for booting, it's only slow if you don't have enough memory. Yes, it's slower than XP, but not by that much. "the view so screwed up"? You're just not making any sense. I'm also not sure what your rambling on about Windows 7 and "productising"? 2010 is only 3 years from when Vista was released. how long do you think it takes to create a new version of an OS? Care to be more coherant?
-- Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?
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Sorry, don't buy it. Why? 1) DRM runs at the kernel level. There wouldn't be an executable using up 100% of the CPU, other than the system process. 2) Any user-mode helper code would be DLL's running in a service host, or in the context of Windows Media player or the like. It wouldn't be a stand-alone executable. 3) Even if a process was eating up 100% of the CPU, it's probably still a driver issue.
-- Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?
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actually if you have tried one of the most recent distros (like ubuntu) you would see that in some ways it has surpassed vista
"mostly watching the human race is like watching dogs watch tv ... they see the pictures move but the meaning escapes them"
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I just got done reading a thread for a while back about Vista... and well, i just don't get it. Oh, don't get me wrong. There are definitely annoyances, but I find it VERY difficult to go back to XP after using Vista for the last year. It's little things, like the snipping tool, Sync center, Desktop search (and No, WDS on XP isn't the same thing... not by a large shot). I like the sidebar. I like Bitlocker. I like Aero (though i could easily do without it). I like being able to type "Users" instead of "Documents and Settings". I think most people are just stuck in their ways. And that's a big reason why they don't like Macs or Linux either (not the only reason, of course). I try to give things a decent chance before I dismiss them, but I know people that the first thing they did when they got Vista was revert the UI back to XP without even trying it. They reverted the menu back to the old menu (and frankly, I think the new menu in XP and Vista are amazing). Yes, there's some stuff I dislike, even after using it for a year. A lot of people hate UAC, but after the first month you almost never see it. The first month you're always messing with settings, and you haven't learned how to use your home folder instead of creating folders all over the hard disk. About the only thing I dislike is that they added more layers to the UI, requiring more steps to do common stuff. I understand what they were trying to do, but I think it just didn't get the kind of review it should have. So what do you think? Are there any other vista lovers out there? Show yourselves.
-- Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?
I've been on it for 8 whole days now. I like it alot. Installation went smooth. I actually had more trouble reinstalling XP, not because of any problems, just because I changed my mind about partitions twice during installs, so it took three tries. The only thing I wouldn't have liked, is if the software I develop didn't work. I've been following the MS recommendations for several years, so I was ready for running as a standard user. There was no problems there. Aero is cool but I get over new UI stuff pretty quick. I spend most of my time coding, so it's pretty much just another OS upgrade to me. Hopefully I'll only need to boot XP for testing :) Mark
Mark Salsbery Microsoft MVP - Visual C++ :java:
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I've been on it for 8 whole days now. I like it alot. Installation went smooth. I actually had more trouble reinstalling XP, not because of any problems, just because I changed my mind about partitions twice during installs, so it took three tries. The only thing I wouldn't have liked, is if the software I develop didn't work. I've been following the MS recommendations for several years, so I was ready for running as a standard user. There was no problems there. Aero is cool but I get over new UI stuff pretty quick. I spend most of my time coding, so it's pretty much just another OS upgrade to me. Hopefully I'll only need to boot XP for testing :) Mark
Mark Salsbery Microsoft MVP - Visual C++ :java:
It is important to note that, Microsoft was making a lot of code practice recommendations for years, such as using the AppData folder and accessing it via the reg key rather than making assumptions about its location or storing application data in a totally separate folder. Many of the program flaws were because of lazy programmers not maintaining standards. I've been using Vista Ultimate x64 for maybe 7 or 8 months now, and I've had few real issues. And there were actually some times when Microsoft gave me intelligent help and support, rather than the bogus "would you like me to send dataz about his to m$, kthxbye I'll never bring this up again". I found that the start menu was a major improvement, as were many of the visual aspects. I like the new network sharing center, except i don't like having an extra step to get to my network connections. however I solved that by making a quick shortcut. I also like the new explorer windows with an improved method of going to parent folders.
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Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
Sorry, don't buy it. Why?
Media Foundation Protected Pipeline EXE This was the process causing the problem.
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That's just the surface! The root of the problem happens to be the people pulling the strings on OS development at Microsoft. If DRM turns out to not have any positive effect for Microsoft and the entertainment industry, then they might just remove it altogether in a service pack or the next version fo Windows. (I knew there were people who understood my sentiments, but now they show up. <_< I get bashed with ones every time I bash Vista.)
ROFLOLMFAO
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Sorry, don't buy it. Why? 1) DRM runs at the kernel level. There wouldn't be an executable using up 100% of the CPU, other than the system process. 2) Any user-mode helper code would be DLL's running in a service host, or in the context of Windows Media player or the like. It wouldn't be a stand-alone executable. 3) Even if a process was eating up 100% of the CPU, it's probably still a driver issue.
-- Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
Sorry, don't buy it. Why?
Did you miss the whole "music playback causes high cpu load" fiasco about 2 months ago? I'd go searching for it to give you a link, but seriously it'll take you 2 seconds. And yes, it's a direct result of the so-called protected-media pipeline.
"If you think of yourselves as helpless and ineffectual, it is certain that you will create a despotic government to be your master. The wise despot, therefore, maintains among his subjects a popular sense that they are helpless and ineffectual." - Frank Herbert
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I just got done reading a thread for a while back about Vista... and well, i just don't get it. Oh, don't get me wrong. There are definitely annoyances, but I find it VERY difficult to go back to XP after using Vista for the last year. It's little things, like the snipping tool, Sync center, Desktop search (and No, WDS on XP isn't the same thing... not by a large shot). I like the sidebar. I like Bitlocker. I like Aero (though i could easily do without it). I like being able to type "Users" instead of "Documents and Settings". I think most people are just stuck in their ways. And that's a big reason why they don't like Macs or Linux either (not the only reason, of course). I try to give things a decent chance before I dismiss them, but I know people that the first thing they did when they got Vista was revert the UI back to XP without even trying it. They reverted the menu back to the old menu (and frankly, I think the new menu in XP and Vista are amazing). Yes, there's some stuff I dislike, even after using it for a year. A lot of people hate UAC, but after the first month you almost never see it. The first month you're always messing with settings, and you haven't learned how to use your home folder instead of creating folders all over the hard disk. About the only thing I dislike is that they added more layers to the UI, requiring more steps to do common stuff. I understand what they were trying to do, but I think it just didn't get the kind of review it should have. So what do you think? Are there any other vista lovers out there? Show yourselves.
-- Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?
The eye-candy UI is a drag on resources. Example - I "reverted" back to the "classic" UI, and wehn compared to the another user's IDENTICAL machine running Vista with the Vista UI, my machine presented UAC dialogs much faster than his. I absolutely HATE the new Windows Explorer. The new search stuff is pointless for me because I rarely use it (and rarely used it on XP or Win2K). It's given me no end of hassles regarding development. There is really no reason for me to want anything in Vista. I don't like it.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
The eye-candy UI is a drag on resources. Example - I "reverted" back to the "classic" UI, and wehn compared to the another user's IDENTICAL machine running Vista with the Vista UI, my machine presented UAC dialogs much faster than his. I absolutely HATE the new Windows Explorer. The new search stuff is pointless for me because I rarely use it (and rarely used it on XP or Win2K). It's given me no end of hassles regarding development. There is really no reason for me to want anything in Vista. I don't like it.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I absolutely HATE the new Windows Explorer.
The Windows shell is getting worse with every new release since Windows 95 :( Yes, there are some real improvements, but the annoyances outweigh them by far. I copied the explorer.exe from an XP installation to Vista, but it won't run :sigh:
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I just got done reading a thread for a while back about Vista... and well, i just don't get it. Oh, don't get me wrong. There are definitely annoyances, but I find it VERY difficult to go back to XP after using Vista for the last year. It's little things, like the snipping tool, Sync center, Desktop search (and No, WDS on XP isn't the same thing... not by a large shot). I like the sidebar. I like Bitlocker. I like Aero (though i could easily do without it). I like being able to type "Users" instead of "Documents and Settings". I think most people are just stuck in their ways. And that's a big reason why they don't like Macs or Linux either (not the only reason, of course). I try to give things a decent chance before I dismiss them, but I know people that the first thing they did when they got Vista was revert the UI back to XP without even trying it. They reverted the menu back to the old menu (and frankly, I think the new menu in XP and Vista are amazing). Yes, there's some stuff I dislike, even after using it for a year. A lot of people hate UAC, but after the first month you almost never see it. The first month you're always messing with settings, and you haven't learned how to use your home folder instead of creating folders all over the hard disk. About the only thing I dislike is that they added more layers to the UI, requiring more steps to do common stuff. I understand what they were trying to do, but I think it just didn't get the kind of review it should have. So what do you think? Are there any other vista lovers out there? Show yourselves.
-- Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?
Yeah, there are some things that take a bit of getting use to, but for my I was sold on it at Beta 2. There are just too many things I like about Vista to ever think of developing on any old junk like XP or running Windows 2003 again (of course I have not tried Windows 2008 yet;) ). It is hard for me to understand any developers using XP on a developer box, at least use Win2003. I really do not understand a lot of developers I see post about Vista on CP. But maybe, I have been lucky and my old and new hardware I have used Vista seems to work without major issues. Even most of the software I use works on Vista as good or better than XP or 2003. Shoot, even my old Photoshop 7 works on Vista better than it did on 2003, which had it crashing often to the loss of work. To me though, it really does not matter, as long as Microsoft posts record profits and keeps raising the bar (even if others do not want to admit it), it all works out in the end. I browsed over an article link today mentioning that Windows is grabbing more market share from the Linux crowd.. Guess free is not always that great.. So, I am a Vista 64 lover until the next version comes out :)
Rocky <>< Blog Post: MVC for ASP.NET! Tech Blog Post: Cheap Biofuels and Synthetics coming soon?
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Uhh... CD burns screwed up? What planet have you been living on for the last 7 years? All burners in this millenium have buffer underrun protection, which makes it impossible for a burn to be 'screwed up', unless the drive itself is malfunctioning. And as for booting, it's only slow if you don't have enough memory. Yes, it's slower than XP, but not by that much. "the view so screwed up"? You're just not making any sense. I'm also not sure what your rambling on about Windows 7 and "productising"? 2010 is only 3 years from when Vista was released. how long do you think it takes to create a new version of an OS? Care to be more coherant?
-- Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?
Eric, CD burning functionality has been screwed up you just didn't notice it get patched up on my x64 ;P Nothing to do with burners but with the OS software. You change the software to a 3rd party one that runs on WoW, and it works! You can explain the burning process all you want when that revelation occurs. As for booting, I haven't seen that many reboots and that dreadful booting time on dual Quad Core with 16GB of RAM since 3.1 on 386 33Mhz. Nothing to do with not having or having more RAM. Yep, the Shell view is totally useless, and btw the shell is far, far slower than any previous one. I guess you need to hear a few words on state of source code of the explorer and how easy it is for it to lock up and hang (do your own research, it takes 5 lines of code and btw, you should have felt it if you work with it for any reasonable amount of time). Sure it is an issue with XP too, but as someone already posted here, it is really getting worse with every version since Windows 95. The rambling about Windows 7 is that it is missing the point on a 'smart plan' NOT to productise it. That's their choice and great news for Linux users. Great maths btw, yes it takes 3 years to provide a stripped down OS (in case of Windows 2008, it takes 6, wtf), something Windows Core (one without Shell) is meant to poorly provide while *nix variants have been doing just that for over 30 years. The problems on x64 are all over the place with drivers, with SAS drives, with text mode, you know boot drivers, and much more, but that is the case with 2003/XP too .. something you have to see for yourself when you get into packaging your own Windows OS distros, give it a go and see how it compares to some new Linux style of updating. But I repeat here, just the fact that the update process on Vista cannot figure the order the patches should be applied to 'SUCCEED' even on 32-bit speaks volumes. Forget your home machine and single PC at work, try working with a few dozen or hundred of them of all kinds. It is irrelevant how long it takes to create an OS that kills more of your everyday *use*, productivity and lean app segment with its quirks than many current alternatives offer 3 or 30 years earlier. Hope that was coherent for you enough. (The only, real metric you should look at is people that tear apart PCs (many big names on blogs out there), the non-PC crowd and others simply revert back or insist on XP. Doesn't that say something about trying to satisfy everyone? Of course it is futile, of course it will be sorted o
