voice programming?
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Anyone know of any thing in this area? My project leader and I were discussing the pain in my hands, which although I am managing it, it is very distracting and disrupts concentration. Although it is not repetative stress or any of the usual computer injuries, and the doctors are starting to hunt for the less common possibilities, life must go on. My project leader was wondering if there was anything that could bypass the hands and still allow programming, voice was the obvious discussion. Although my usual joke not withstanding, ("hey Fred, lets go to lunch. Computer: going to launch... lift off!") I guess I am seriously in the market. If there is anything that can move the pressure off my hands and still allow me to program, he'll buy it. Cost is an issue, but he'll wheel and deel if necessary, so it is not as big of an issue as it might seem. Anyone with ideas?
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Hi dude.. I really like your idea...it doesn't mean that I feel uncomforted to write code in keyboard. Microsoft always try to invent something which use less code.If Microsoft stop doing invent then how we all get good and efficient IDE or platform for coding.Voice programing not only mean to give rest to your hand but also gives a new style for coding. So all you guys, its really an innovative idea.Please contribute for this. Right now I don't have any idea how to develop it but whenever I have, I post it. Happy Coding
AS
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Anyone know of any thing in this area? My project leader and I were discussing the pain in my hands, which although I am managing it, it is very distracting and disrupts concentration. Although it is not repetative stress or any of the usual computer injuries, and the doctors are starting to hunt for the less common possibilities, life must go on. My project leader was wondering if there was anything that could bypass the hands and still allow programming, voice was the obvious discussion. Although my usual joke not withstanding, ("hey Fred, lets go to lunch. Computer: going to launch... lift off!") I guess I am seriously in the market. If there is anything that can move the pressure off my hands and still allow me to program, he'll buy it. Cost is an issue, but he'll wheel and deel if necessary, so it is not as big of an issue as it might seem. Anyone with ideas?
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
I played around with voice technology about 10 years ago. It has come a long way, but still has a long way to go. If you practice your speach making sure you say everything relative the same way, and specialize and train your VR program, I bet you can get it to do just about anything. It just the specializing and training that can take a while and make in not worth your while. And it would definately be hard for programming, but I'm sure it's doable with enough effort. As far as keyboards, get the best. I had a $150 one a few years ago that was adjustable as all get out. I loved it, but of course I forgot it "onsite" one time and never saw it again. I've been using regular ones now for years and haven't needed an ergo one again. But I've not been doing the 10 hr days on the keyboard nearly as much either. Cheers. -- modified at 9:22 Tuesday 27th November, 2007
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With the programming stuff I can't help much, but medically I'm in a similar position, though not nearly as bad. My problem actually lies in my neck and back, but the effect is that I have pain in my hand, and they also shake a lot. In my case nobody notices the shaking 'cause I type to fast. I also work very long hours, and when I get home I sit behind my PC again. My one small piece of advice that I want to impart is something that I haven't seen mentioned in the thread. It is absolutely imperative that your arms rest on something, so that there is no strain on your shoulders. This made a world of difference in my life. Also, like many other people said, exercise is also very important (which is very lacking in my life). I hope you get better very soon. Regards,
Here here. Arms resting is key. I have a pinched nerve and it acts up if my arms aren't resting on the desk. I have to have a ton of space on the desk for my arms, and a chair that slides under the desk, but it works. Oh, and one more thing that helped with my pinched nerve, and I've always gotten grief for doing this. I put the mouse right in front of me. So it's between my hands. So instead of doing the repetitive "move hand to the right for the mouse" I just move my hand a few inches close to me. I also used to have an ergo keyboard where it was split and raised in the middle. The mouse could fit up under it a little and made the movement even shorter/easier. Cheers.
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Anyone know of any thing in this area? My project leader and I were discussing the pain in my hands, which although I am managing it, it is very distracting and disrupts concentration. Although it is not repetative stress or any of the usual computer injuries, and the doctors are starting to hunt for the less common possibilities, life must go on. My project leader was wondering if there was anything that could bypass the hands and still allow programming, voice was the obvious discussion. Although my usual joke not withstanding, ("hey Fred, lets go to lunch. Computer: going to launch... lift off!") I guess I am seriously in the market. If there is anything that can move the pressure off my hands and still allow me to program, he'll buy it. Cost is an issue, but he'll wheel and deel if necessary, so it is not as big of an issue as it might seem. Anyone with ideas?
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
El Corazon wrote:
Anyone know of any thing in this area?
I can only imagine your torture. :(( I've worked with programming voice, but not as you desire. I've taken the raw libraries, composed my own recognizable word-sets, and done some rather intricate stuff. I have not tried to input programmer context, however. You can get an SDK for Dragon Speaking and for Fonix, and these work ok, but too many errors for my liking (in an industrial environment with background noise, not good at all). The best I came across used the IBM voice engine, however I could not get at the low-level functions or SDK. It worked the best, however, even though it was not fine tuned. Here's an idea. Have your boss hire me as your minion, and I'll develop the voice-input capability alongside typing your code. We can sell it to a few others and become independently wealthy. Lower our work-days to something reasonable, and eliminate the second job. I assume we'll want C++, not COBOL? :laugh:
Gary
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This is sickening. I feel sorry for you and your pain, but if it is not a genetic illness or just bad luck, and if it is caused by you working so much then you need to see another kind of a doctor. Psychiatrist. No offense there. It's just that people stray away from life like that. It could happen to anyone, but you need to be aware of it. There is always a way: like having that thing you squeeze while you are thinking. Or being disciplined in stretching and stuff. I am still young so i see as how i might experience all this one day, but i felt obliged to tell you that something a man called Sulik told me a while ago: "Me and grampy bone think you should stop and smell the flowers" :D good luck
nardev82 wrote:
I feel sorry for you and your pain, but if it is not a genetic illness or just bad luck, and if it is caused by you working so much then you need to see another kind of a doctor. Psychiatrist. No offense there.
No offense taken, however, outside of telling my step-son his natural father is too selfish to pay for your competition level gymnastics and I am too poor, so go find yourself a cheaper activity... I have to do something. I started other work to actually reduce my hours, I know seems strange, but it is true. The extra work outside of work pays a lot more, so I can put in fewer hours and actually reduce my workload. We all do the best that we can with what we have, I am working at getting more for less so that the stress is reduced.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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nardev82 wrote:
I feel sorry for you and your pain, but if it is not a genetic illness or just bad luck, and if it is caused by you working so much then you need to see another kind of a doctor. Psychiatrist. No offense there.
No offense taken, however, outside of telling my step-son his natural father is too selfish to pay for your competition level gymnastics and I am too poor, so go find yourself a cheaper activity... I have to do something. I started other work to actually reduce my hours, I know seems strange, but it is true. The extra work outside of work pays a lot more, so I can put in fewer hours and actually reduce my workload. We all do the best that we can with what we have, I am working at getting more for less so that the stress is reduced.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
I am sure there is a good reason behind it. It is way noble. And the topic by itself is very interesting. The way i see it, a programmer should only need his mind and a computer :) yet it seems as though without your sight it is impossible. That bums me out. Another thought i had was virtual reality programing. Imagine a 3D environment where you can grab snippets look around and stuff like that. Grab stuff with your hand. Code on top of a nice big white cloud in the middle of an Oblivion grass field. :) Ohh man...i wonder what happened to VR. It used to be so hyped up...
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I am sure there is a good reason behind it. It is way noble. And the topic by itself is very interesting. The way i see it, a programmer should only need his mind and a computer :) yet it seems as though without your sight it is impossible. That bums me out. Another thought i had was virtual reality programing. Imagine a 3D environment where you can grab snippets look around and stuff like that. Grab stuff with your hand. Code on top of a nice big white cloud in the middle of an Oblivion grass field. :) Ohh man...i wonder what happened to VR. It used to be so hyped up...
nardev82 wrote:
Ohh man...i wonder what happened to VR. It used to be so hyped up...
VR is alive and well, I do telepresence work and 3D all the time. I was just browsing all my haptics research for another project, virtual haptics is what you are talking about. A entirely computer construct that takes real-world motion to control a virtual object. The virtual objects being programming constructs. Haptic is just a fancy name for a computer-human interface. ;)
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Anyone know of any thing in this area? My project leader and I were discussing the pain in my hands, which although I am managing it, it is very distracting and disrupts concentration. Although it is not repetative stress or any of the usual computer injuries, and the doctors are starting to hunt for the less common possibilities, life must go on. My project leader was wondering if there was anything that could bypass the hands and still allow programming, voice was the obvious discussion. Although my usual joke not withstanding, ("hey Fred, lets go to lunch. Computer: going to launch... lift off!") I guess I am seriously in the market. If there is anything that can move the pressure off my hands and still allow me to program, he'll buy it. Cost is an issue, but he'll wheel and deel if necessary, so it is not as big of an issue as it might seem. Anyone with ideas?
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
yeah i think for now im going to say pound ... using ... system ... period ... security ... cryptography ... enter ... enter ... public ... class ... my ... backspace ... project ... enter LMAO!
Software Developer / IT Instructor Jayzon Ragasa Baguio City, Philippines
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Anyone know of any thing in this area? My project leader and I were discussing the pain in my hands, which although I am managing it, it is very distracting and disrupts concentration. Although it is not repetative stress or any of the usual computer injuries, and the doctors are starting to hunt for the less common possibilities, life must go on. My project leader was wondering if there was anything that could bypass the hands and still allow programming, voice was the obvious discussion. Although my usual joke not withstanding, ("hey Fred, lets go to lunch. Computer: going to launch... lift off!") I guess I am seriously in the market. If there is anything that can move the pressure off my hands and still allow me to program, he'll buy it. Cost is an issue, but he'll wheel and deel if necessary, so it is not as big of an issue as it might seem. Anyone with ideas?
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Here's what I would try if I would in your position. I'd start with Say-Now's interface to Microsoft SAPI (say-now.com) for voice commands and dictation [$14]. It does take a little while (20 minutes for me) to train Windows to recognize your voice. Next, I'd check out RunRevolution Studio (runrev.com) with the Transcript programming language for desktop programming [$399]. Of all the languages I'm (somewhat) familiar with, Transcript is appears to be most similar to English and seems amenable to speech-based input. I'd also look at The Foot/Slipper Mouse (bilila.com) [$199].
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Get a whipping boy. Then you can tell them what to type. Easy.
My current favourite word is: PIE! I have changed my name to my regular internet alias. But don't let the 'Genius' part fool you, you don't know what 'SK' stands for. -
The Undefeated -
El Corazon wrote:
Anyone know of any thing in this area?
I can only imagine your torture. :(( I've worked with programming voice, but not as you desire. I've taken the raw libraries, composed my own recognizable word-sets, and done some rather intricate stuff. I have not tried to input programmer context, however. You can get an SDK for Dragon Speaking and for Fonix, and these work ok, but too many errors for my liking (in an industrial environment with background noise, not good at all). The best I came across used the IBM voice engine, however I could not get at the low-level functions or SDK. It worked the best, however, even though it was not fine tuned. Here's an idea. Have your boss hire me as your minion, and I'll develop the voice-input capability alongside typing your code. We can sell it to a few others and become independently wealthy. Lower our work-days to something reasonable, and eliminate the second job. I assume we'll want C++, not COBOL? :laugh:
Gary
ghle wrote:
Here's an idea. Have your boss hire me as your minion, and I'll develop the voice-input capability alongside typing your code. We can sell it to a few others and become independently wealthy. Lower our work-days to something reasonable, and eliminate the second job.
We're already hiring minions.[^] The rest, well, work doesn't have any interest in additional profit. Not of my work is sold for profit.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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bmoore3447 wrote:
that does not explain the burning and swelling as well as other symptoms.
have they tested for Lupis and Rhumetoid arthritis? My last doc refused to even examine other possibilities than nerve, it wasn't that so it will go away.... I switched doctors at least to rule out Arthritis because my grandfather had a case without burning and swelling. She tested that and half a dozen other things without question. I never even considered Lupis or endemic strep. I am not too worried about those, I think that would be a long-shot, but at least she is tryng, and that is all I ask. The other doctor stopped trying after the first obvious choice. "Hey, wasn't carpal tunnel or neuropathy, so take two asperin and call me next week." I don't ask much, I just want them to keep looking. My sister-in-law has arthritis with the standard swelling and burning. My grandfather's escaped the docs for a long time before he couldn't handle the pain any longer. It actually didn't start swelling until they started trying to treat the arthritis. It was just pain and more pain.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Yeah i was tested for both came back negative. My RH factor was normal .. that indicates RA but which is the closest thing I could find to match my symptoms. In the end they came back its just nerve damage, with my meds its undercontrol cept when i get sick .. i am going to wait a little while longer. Then I will go back again and see if anything else popped up.
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I'm not a user myself, but I have helped others with Dragon, and some years ago IBM Clear Type. We currently use Dragon and for normal stuff it is excellent - needs minimal training and works pretty well out of the box. Given that it copes with punctuation for normal dictation, you may be able to extend this to cope with some programming constructs. The professional edition supports scripting and macros - but I have never used this.Link[^] The only other issue, that should be no problem for someone with a technical background, is that it works best if you are very pedantic - you must correct its mistakes as it is always learning. (At the end of every session you are asked if you want to save the user files - somedays - e.g. if you have a cold, you choose not to to make sure that it didn't learn anything today)
Peter "Until the invention of the computer, the machine gun was the device that enabled humans to make the most mistakes in the smallest amount of time."
cp9876 wrote:
I'm not a user myself, but I have helped others with Dragon, and some years ago IBM Clear Type. We currently use Dragon and for normal stuff it is excellent - needs minimal training and works pretty well out of the box. Given that it copes with punctuation for normal dictation, you may be able to extend this to cope with some programming constructs. The professional edition supports scripting and macros
@All Well, I'm writing that to you all as someone with some experience in this field. I have some strong physical disabilities (90%+), and so I'm forced to use V.R. for writing my code, and also writing anything. I'm also using Dragon Naturally Speaking professional edition. Great solution! My personal opinion is similar to that by TomMayne. It can be done but not right out of the box. You will need to make some preparations. The first thing is that you have to adapt yourself to that kind of programming. However, with the little help of intellisence in VS2005 it is simpler. The important things are the special macros or scripts that you can make and use in Dragon. Especially they may be bound to only one special program (i.e. VS2005) so you have many options how to integrate them f. e. for use with VS2005. It will take some time to get all things adapted to each other but afterwards it may work well. Additionally, don't forget to use Code Snippets in VS2005! I'm sure you all noticed that English isn’t my native language. So there is just one little drawback with Dragon! I need very often to switch between native and English language, and that is an awkward process. You have to save all changes that Dragon have made to his language database and wait a bit, then load the other language and wait a bit again. However I believe this isn't so important to all of us. @thrakazog Well a bit OT but... About 'ctrl-alt-delete' and other key combinations... there is a software solution inside windows as well as some HW solutions on special keyboards. So for example you have to press the keys one after another. It works great when u need to get into bios at boot time. It works with just one finger, a pen, or whatever! ;) -- NPow
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Anyone know of any thing in this area? My project leader and I were discussing the pain in my hands, which although I am managing it, it is very distracting and disrupts concentration. Although it is not repetative stress or any of the usual computer injuries, and the doctors are starting to hunt for the less common possibilities, life must go on. My project leader was wondering if there was anything that could bypass the hands and still allow programming, voice was the obvious discussion. Although my usual joke not withstanding, ("hey Fred, lets go to lunch. Computer: going to launch... lift off!") I guess I am seriously in the market. If there is anything that can move the pressure off my hands and still allow me to program, he'll buy it. Cost is an issue, but he'll wheel and deel if necessary, so it is not as big of an issue as it might seem. Anyone with ideas?
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Yes, forget the fancy software, hire an intern to do the typing for you. Kinda like extreme or agile or whatever silly name it has now but instead of two separate programmers think of it as one brain (you) and a body (intern).
More people died from worry than ever bled to death. - RAH
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cp9876 wrote:
I'm not a user myself, but I have helped others with Dragon, and some years ago IBM Clear Type. We currently use Dragon and for normal stuff it is excellent - needs minimal training and works pretty well out of the box. Given that it copes with punctuation for normal dictation, you may be able to extend this to cope with some programming constructs. The professional edition supports scripting and macros
@All Well, I'm writing that to you all as someone with some experience in this field. I have some strong physical disabilities (90%+), and so I'm forced to use V.R. for writing my code, and also writing anything. I'm also using Dragon Naturally Speaking professional edition. Great solution! My personal opinion is similar to that by TomMayne. It can be done but not right out of the box. You will need to make some preparations. The first thing is that you have to adapt yourself to that kind of programming. However, with the little help of intellisence in VS2005 it is simpler. The important things are the special macros or scripts that you can make and use in Dragon. Especially they may be bound to only one special program (i.e. VS2005) so you have many options how to integrate them f. e. for use with VS2005. It will take some time to get all things adapted to each other but afterwards it may work well. Additionally, don't forget to use Code Snippets in VS2005! I'm sure you all noticed that English isn’t my native language. So there is just one little drawback with Dragon! I need very often to switch between native and English language, and that is an awkward process. You have to save all changes that Dragon have made to his language database and wait a bit, then load the other language and wait a bit again. However I believe this isn't so important to all of us. @thrakazog Well a bit OT but... About 'ctrl-alt-delete' and other key combinations... there is a software solution inside windows as well as some HW solutions on special keyboards. So for example you have to press the keys one after another. It works great when u need to get into bios at boot time. It works with just one finger, a pen, or whatever! ;) -- NPow
NPow wrote:
I'm sure you all noticed that English isn’t my native language.
actually, like >95% of people I see apologizing for this, your English is better than what >95% of native speakers are typing into their keyboards. :rose:
-- Help Stamp Out and Abolish Redundancy The preceding is courtesy of the Department of Unnecessarily Redundant Repetition Department.
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Scott Hanselman has blogged about it a little bit. See here[^] and here[^]. Whether he actually does coding with it, though, I don't know. Best to ask him for the details.
Jon Sagara Once again, the conservative sandwich-heavy portfolio pays off for the hungry investor! *slurp* Oh, I'm ruined! -- Dr. Zoidberg .NET Blog | Personal Blog | Articles
Here, here to Scott Hanselman, this was the very first thing that I thought of... However, one of the Dot Net Rocks hosts (Carl Franklin) has also mentioned issues with his hands (he even mentions trying one of those "keyboards on a ball" as a I recall). I don't normally advise spamming the top bloggers, but it may be worth e-mailing one of them. I would also hit the standard "alternative therapies": massage therapy, yoga / tai-chi, acupuncture, etc. (maybe even a few together, tai-chi + massage therapy?). The body is deeply interconnected, things like overly tense hamstrings can cause lower back pain, bad balance in your back can cause hand pain, etc. You may be doing "the exercises", but you're probably not making any headway on the problem b/c you started too late. In gaming terms, it's like your body has like a 1000 points of damage on it and you're only healing 1 point / day :) This would be fine if you were close to zero, but you're just way past that point so you need some other form of intervention. No amount of drugs can magically fix things like back alignment and range of movement, so I would personally suggest a registered massage therapist (based on my own experiences). I would also try Tai-Chi, it's very good for fixing up problems with the hips and the back (though it is a long process). Gates VP
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NPow wrote:
I'm sure you all noticed that English isn’t my native language.
actually, like >95% of people I see apologizing for this, your English is better than what >95% of native speakers are typing into their keyboards. :rose:
-- Help Stamp Out and Abolish Redundancy The preceding is courtesy of the Department of Unnecessarily Redundant Repetition Department.
dan neely wrote:
actually, like >95% of people I see apologizing for this, your English is better than what >95% of native speakers are typing into their keyboards.
Well... I'm a bit surprised... really. :-O Thank you for this nice and big compliment! However, this isn't all my personal earning. There are so many different tools here doing some great work for me. So I have learned using things like Word to check spelling, and the most important, to check grammar! ;) Well, to stay on-topic... V.R. is doing also a great work about a correct spelling! :-D -- NPow
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Anyone know of any thing in this area? My project leader and I were discussing the pain in my hands, which although I am managing it, it is very distracting and disrupts concentration. Although it is not repetative stress or any of the usual computer injuries, and the doctors are starting to hunt for the less common possibilities, life must go on. My project leader was wondering if there was anything that could bypass the hands and still allow programming, voice was the obvious discussion. Although my usual joke not withstanding, ("hey Fred, lets go to lunch. Computer: going to launch... lift off!") I guess I am seriously in the market. If there is anything that can move the pressure off my hands and still allow me to program, he'll buy it. Cost is an issue, but he'll wheel and deel if necessary, so it is not as big of an issue as it might seem. Anyone with ideas?
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Sounds like someone needs to throw something together for you.
____________________________________________________________________________ "Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space." -- Douglas Adams -- Shohom67
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Get a whipping boy. Then you can tell them what to type. Easy.
My current favourite word is: PIE! I have changed my name to my regular internet alias. But don't let the 'Genius' part fool you, you don't know what 'SK' stands for. -
The UndefeatedNow thats a novel idea, it may be a bit slow at first, but it would be a great way to train someone new, and at the same time save your hands
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Anyone know of any thing in this area? My project leader and I were discussing the pain in my hands, which although I am managing it, it is very distracting and disrupts concentration. Although it is not repetative stress or any of the usual computer injuries, and the doctors are starting to hunt for the less common possibilities, life must go on. My project leader was wondering if there was anything that could bypass the hands and still allow programming, voice was the obvious discussion. Although my usual joke not withstanding, ("hey Fred, lets go to lunch. Computer: going to launch... lift off!") I guess I am seriously in the market. If there is anything that can move the pressure off my hands and still allow me to program, he'll buy it. Cost is an issue, but he'll wheel and deel if necessary, so it is not as big of an issue as it might seem. Anyone with ideas?
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
I have no input on the exact question you asked, but I wonder if you can at least reduce how much you use your hands by using DragonSpeak or whatever for email and writing these postings. Presumably a large chunk of your typing is non-programming, so you may at least reduce your pain. Good luck. DB