So far it has been tough.
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I've been a Christian for about a month now and I must say it is tough. The worst thing is combating biology, and I must say I understand why most Christians get married fairly young. I do like my nightly Bible study, and I am trying to learn as much as possible. Hopefully this will give me the strength to avoid temptation and sin.
We need a Christian forum on CP at this rate.... How did you become a Christian ? Did you recieve the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues, or did you 'give your heart to Jesus' ( a process not found in the Bible ) ? I did the latter several times and found I struggled with alcohol and pr0n. When I did the former, which is what the Bible says, I lost the desire for both in an instant. When I was courting, I certainly sexually desired my future wife, and her me, but it was still not a struggle because we both knew what was right. We were both happy to build our relationship based on getting to know each other, and then bang on our wedding night. It was worth the wait. But my principle point is that if you're not *actually* a Christian, then all you've got is your mind battling against your natural senses. If you are a Christian, then you have God inside you internally motivating you to do good, and the problem ceases to exist. That is the point of the New Testament, instead of an external Law, the Law is written on our hearts. Christian I am completely intolerant of stupidity. Stupidity is, of course, anything that doesn't conform to my way of thinking. - Jamie Hale - 29/05/2002 Half the reason people switch away from VB is to find out what actually goes on.. and then like me they find out that they weren't quite as good as they thought - they've been nannied. - Alex, 13 June 2002
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Where exactly in the Bible are you getting the notion that you can not have premarital sex with a female ? Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
More about me :-)
Do you really want a list ? Start with 'marriage is honourable and the bed undefiled, but fornicators and adulterers, God will judge'. Christian I am completely intolerant of stupidity. Stupidity is, of course, anything that doesn't conform to my way of thinking. - Jamie Hale - 29/05/2002 Half the reason people switch away from VB is to find out what actually goes on.. and then like me they find out that they weren't quite as good as they thought - they've been nannied. - Alex, 13 June 2002
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IIRC someone said that it was because sex should only take place between husband and wife to procreate (sp?). James "Java is free - and worth every penny." - Christian Graus
Between husband and wife, yes. To procreate, no. The Bible actually says a husband and wife must not deny each other sex, except by consent. It talks in terms of not ripping one another off. Christian I am completely intolerant of stupidity. Stupidity is, of course, anything that doesn't conform to my way of thinking. - Jamie Hale - 29/05/2002 Half the reason people switch away from VB is to find out what actually goes on.. and then like me they find out that they weren't quite as good as they thought - they've been nannied. - Alex, 13 June 2002
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I've been a Christian for all my life and got married at 29. The problem with your approach is that you associate "sin" with sex before marriage. But, AFAIK, this is not such a "terrible sin" - if you want to be a good Christian, just be good and kind to other people, don't lie and be patient with your enemies. If you bang some chick down the road - well you don't want to be a saint, do you? I vote pro drink :beer:
Nemanja Trifunovic wrote: well you don't want to be a saint, do you? In the Bible, a Christian IS a saint. You're not describing Christianity, you're describing being a decent person. That is a subset of being a Christian. Christian I am completely intolerant of stupidity. Stupidity is, of course, anything that doesn't conform to my way of thinking. - Jamie Hale - 29/05/2002 Half the reason people switch away from VB is to find out what actually goes on.. and then like me they find out that they weren't quite as good as they thought - they've been nannied. - Alex, 13 June 2002
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Rama Krishna wrote: I thought that you already conquered the urge. Atleast that's what you told. That was at least two weeks ago. Biology gets stronger with each day. I think it is an exponential function because each day seems at least twice as difficult as the previous. Needless to say, my faith has held up so far, but I don't know how long I can last. Hopefully I will meet the woman of my dreams soon.
Martin Marvinski wrote: Biology gets stronger with each day. I think it is an exponential function because each day seems at least twice as difficult as the previous. This sounds exactly like the cycle I was on for two years prior to becoming an actual Christian. Christian I am completely intolerant of stupidity. Stupidity is, of course, anything that doesn't conform to my way of thinking. - Jamie Hale - 29/05/2002 Half the reason people switch away from VB is to find out what actually goes on.. and then like me they find out that they weren't quite as good as they thought - they've been nannied. - Alex, 13 June 2002
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Between husband and wife, yes. To procreate, no. The Bible actually says a husband and wife must not deny each other sex, except by consent. It talks in terms of not ripping one another off. Christian I am completely intolerant of stupidity. Stupidity is, of course, anything that doesn't conform to my way of thinking. - Jamie Hale - 29/05/2002 Half the reason people switch away from VB is to find out what actually goes on.. and then like me they find out that they weren't quite as good as they thought - they've been nannied. - Alex, 13 June 2002
Thanks for the clarification :) James "Java is free - and worth every penny." - Christian Graus
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Martin Marvinski wrote: Biology gets stronger with each day. I think it is an exponential function because each day seems at least twice as difficult as the previous. This sounds exactly like the cycle I was on for two years prior to becoming an actual Christian. Christian I am completely intolerant of stupidity. Stupidity is, of course, anything that doesn't conform to my way of thinking. - Jamie Hale - 29/05/2002 Half the reason people switch away from VB is to find out what actually goes on.. and then like me they find out that they weren't quite as good as they thought - they've been nannied. - Alex, 13 June 2002
Christian Graus wrote: This sounds exactly like the cycle I was on for two years prior to becoming an actual Christian. What do you mean by that!? I go to Church every Sunday, and I have Bible study every night. I have accepted Jesus Christ, so what else is there?
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I spent a lot of my younger years as a musician doing the sex, drugs and rock & roll thing. Needless to say, I woke up with a lot of women whose names I couldn't even remember. Somewhere down the line, as I got older and my values changed, I reached a point where sex without an emotional connection was an empty experience for me. Now don't get me wrong, I still love sex with beautiful women, but these days if it's not someone I want to wake up and hug the next morning, I'd truly just rather sleep alone. So, the biological urges are definately still there, but because of what I believe in and am holding out for (i.e., good old fashioned, idealistic, romantic love), it's not a hardship. I'm sure you that you will draw similar strength from the power of your own beliefs. Discipline is just a habit. Once established, it's easily maintianed. Chistopher Duncan Author - The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Apress)
Maybe you're just gettin' older and slower ;) cheers, Chris Maunder Rub your belly and pat your head simultaneously. Sometimes that helps me make sense of things - Jon Sagara
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From Masturbation 1:12 "Thou shalt use thine own hand before banging some chick, lest thine one and only dick falleth off." "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio.
Oh boy.... Now I'm just wondering how long it will be before someone young and impressionable uses this as their sig... cheers, Chris Maunder Rub your belly and pat your head simultaneously. Sometimes that helps me make sense of things - Jon Sagara
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From Masturbation 1:12 "Thou shalt use thine own hand before banging some chick, lest thine one and only dick falleth off." "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio.
I've been meaning to say this for a while now... welcome back to the Lounge John. :-D ____________________ David Wulff "You don't go to the kitchen to take a piss - if you do, don't expect to be served." - peterchen on Bill SerGio. "I've squeezed off turds that had more going for them then you do." - John Simmons on Bill SerGio "Ohh ohhh aahhh ahhh ahh ahhh oohhhh yeeeessss ohhhh aahhhhh yesssss!" - Me on Bill SerGio
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Do you really want a list ? Start with 'marriage is honourable and the bed undefiled, but fornicators and adulterers, God will judge'. Christian I am completely intolerant of stupidity. Stupidity is, of course, anything that doesn't conform to my way of thinking. - Jamie Hale - 29/05/2002 Half the reason people switch away from VB is to find out what actually goes on.. and then like me they find out that they weren't quite as good as they thought - they've been nannied. - Alex, 13 June 2002
Christian Graus wrote: Do you really want a list ? Start with 'marriage is honourable and the bed undefiled, but fornicators and adulterers, God will judge'. You are repeating the words of the Church, and not those of the Bible, For instance the hebrew word ZANAH has at least 3 major different meanings and different interpreters have chosen the meaning that was politically correct for there use. Or if you look in Mathew where the word fornication is used it was translated from the Greek "porneia" which has a wide variety of different meanings. I'm certain if either God or Jesus had wanted to make such an issue out of it they would have stated it clearly in the Bible, Instead of allowing various interpretations. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
More about me :-)
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Christian Graus wrote: This sounds exactly like the cycle I was on for two years prior to becoming an actual Christian. What do you mean by that!? I go to Church every Sunday, and I have Bible study every night. I have accepted Jesus Christ, so what else is there?
I've answered elsewhere, but the short answer is that as well as accepting Jesus, we need to do what He said. It seems you're pretty serious about it, to be doing a Bible study every night, but the Bible says in order to understand it you need the Holy Spirit. Luke 11 records Jesus saying that we need to keep asking until we have the Holy Spirit, and various parts of the Bible tell us how we know when we do - we speak in tongues. The Bible says this prayer language is necessary, and particularly useful when you feel you need to 'build yourself in the faith', as it says in Jude 20-21. There is a whole lot more scripture I could throw at you here, but the most pertinent thing is Acts 10 - a record of someone doing their best to follow God, but not filled with the Holy Spirit -> not a Christian. God responded by sending someone to tell Cornelius and household the full Gospel, so that they could respond to it and be saved. Christian I am completely intolerant of stupidity. Stupidity is, of course, anything that doesn't conform to my way of thinking. - Jamie Hale - 29/05/2002 Half the reason people switch away from VB is to find out what actually goes on.. and then like me they find out that they weren't quite as good as they thought - they've been nannied. - Alex, 13 June 2002
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Christian Graus wrote: Do you really want a list ? Start with 'marriage is honourable and the bed undefiled, but fornicators and adulterers, God will judge'. You are repeating the words of the Church, and not those of the Bible, For instance the hebrew word ZANAH has at least 3 major different meanings and different interpreters have chosen the meaning that was politically correct for there use. Or if you look in Mathew where the word fornication is used it was translated from the Greek "porneia" which has a wide variety of different meanings. I'm certain if either God or Jesus had wanted to make such an issue out of it they would have stated it clearly in the Bible, Instead of allowing various interpretations. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
More about me :-)
Colin Davies wrote: You are repeating the words of the Church, and not those of the Bible, I'm sorry, but I just quoted one of Pauls letters. The fact that marriage is a type of the union of Christ and the church goes a long way to explaining why it is that God feels this way, and also why He says that there should be no divorce between Christians. Colin Davies wrote: Or if you look in Mathew where the word fornication is used it was translated from the Greek "porneia" which has a wide variety of different meanings. I'm certain if either God or Jesus had wanted to make such an issue out of it they would have stated it clearly in the Bible, Instead of allowing various interpretations. I think it's crystal clear in the NT. You'd need to mount a case for the Bible NOT being clear, in terms of the translation being wrong, if you wanted to argue that it was OK to have sex outside of marriage. for what reason do you believe the Corinthian church was told to expel a member ? From memory the word 'fornication' is used. Christian I am completely intolerant of stupidity. Stupidity is, of course, anything that doesn't conform to my way of thinking. - Jamie Hale - 29/05/2002 Half the reason people switch away from VB is to find out what actually goes on.. and then like me they find out that they weren't quite as good as they thought - they've been nannied. - Alex, 13 June 2002
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Maybe you're just gettin' older and slower ;) cheers, Chris Maunder Rub your belly and pat your head simultaneously. Sometimes that helps me make sense of things - Jon Sagara
Chris Maunder wrote: Maybe you're just gettin' older and slower Older? Absolutely! Slower? Well, when I play rock & roll, I still spend half the night airborne, so I must not be falling apart just yet! ;P Chistopher Duncan Author - The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Apress)
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Colin Davies wrote: You are repeating the words of the Church, and not those of the Bible, I'm sorry, but I just quoted one of Pauls letters. The fact that marriage is a type of the union of Christ and the church goes a long way to explaining why it is that God feels this way, and also why He says that there should be no divorce between Christians. Colin Davies wrote: Or if you look in Mathew where the word fornication is used it was translated from the Greek "porneia" which has a wide variety of different meanings. I'm certain if either God or Jesus had wanted to make such an issue out of it they would have stated it clearly in the Bible, Instead of allowing various interpretations. I think it's crystal clear in the NT. You'd need to mount a case for the Bible NOT being clear, in terms of the translation being wrong, if you wanted to argue that it was OK to have sex outside of marriage. for what reason do you believe the Corinthian church was told to expel a member ? From memory the word 'fornication' is used. Christian I am completely intolerant of stupidity. Stupidity is, of course, anything that doesn't conform to my way of thinking. - Jamie Hale - 29/05/2002 Half the reason people switch away from VB is to find out what actually goes on.. and then like me they find out that they weren't quite as good as they thought - they've been nannied. - Alex, 13 June 2002
Christian what is sexual immorality, Holding hands ? Kissing on the face ? Kissing on the lips ? Massaging ? Fodiling ? ..... ? Fornication has many different interpretations, Remember Clinton I did not have sex with Ms Lewinski The OT was far more explicit in what it said and condemmed. Also being expelled from a church is not revocation of rights have your sins forgiven or to enter Heaven. BTW:: I'm not a big fan of Paul, Much prefer Peter and James. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
More about me :-)
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Christian what is sexual immorality, Holding hands ? Kissing on the face ? Kissing on the lips ? Massaging ? Fodiling ? ..... ? Fornication has many different interpretations, Remember Clinton I did not have sex with Ms Lewinski The OT was far more explicit in what it said and condemmed. Also being expelled from a church is not revocation of rights have your sins forgiven or to enter Heaven. BTW:: I'm not a big fan of Paul, Much prefer Peter and James. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
More about me :-)
Colin Davies wrote: what is sexual immorality, Easy. It's genital contact, directly or indirectly, for the purpose of sexual stimulation. Colin Davies wrote: Remember Clinton I did not have sex with Ms Lewinski Clinton was a weasel. The world agrees that he did. Colin Davies wrote: Also being expelled from a church is not revocation of rights have your sins forgiven or to enter Heaven. I did not mean to say otherwise. Colin Davies wrote: BTW:: I'm not a big fan of Paul, Much prefer Peter and James. I'm very fond of James, but a percieved dichotomy is a claim that the Bible is not inspired by God, and we can choose the opinion of the person we agree with. In that case, why does it need to be someone who lived 2000 years ago ? Christian I am completely intolerant of stupidity. Stupidity is, of course, anything that doesn't conform to my way of thinking. - Jamie Hale - 29/05/2002 Half the reason people switch away from VB is to find out what actually goes on.. and then like me they find out that they weren't quite as good as they thought - they've been nannied. - Alex, 13 June 2002
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Christopher Duncan wrote: Don't recall the biblical justification for it though. The only real thing is the commandment "Thou shalt not commit adultery". I can quote you in the bible where it is against celibacy Starting in Genesis 2:18 and through, Marriage is considered honourable in many places as well. And the use of the verb "to fornicate" has several different translations. But I do not believe anywhere in all the Canons including the Ethiopian ones is it said "that a young hetrosexual couple" must remain chaste and pure. I seriously wonder about "churches" that preach stuff that can not be found clearly in the bible. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
More about me :-)
Math 5:28 Jesus said if you even look on a woman with lust in your heart you have committed adultery. Elsewhere: "treat the young women as sisters, with absolute purity" Job said "I have made a covenant with my eyes not to look upon a maid [again, with lust]" Colin- there are a zillion places, literally. So the bad news is, we are all adulterers, to one degree or another. The situation is not magically solved by marriage - only new problems occur. Marvin should thank God for his biology. Frankly, I'm more concerned that he's going to a bible study every night. I hope this isn't the International Church of Christ. Maybe Marvin could read Proverbs 5 & 6. Possibly some workbook from Navigators or Intervarsity might be good. (Possibly Jerry Bridges?) Hey, if your Italian car causes you to stumble, take the bus!
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Math 5:28 Jesus said if you even look on a woman with lust in your heart you have committed adultery. Elsewhere: "treat the young women as sisters, with absolute purity" Job said "I have made a covenant with my eyes not to look upon a maid [again, with lust]" Colin- there are a zillion places, literally. So the bad news is, we are all adulterers, to one degree or another. The situation is not magically solved by marriage - only new problems occur. Marvin should thank God for his biology. Frankly, I'm more concerned that he's going to a bible study every night. I hope this isn't the International Church of Christ. Maybe Marvin could read Proverbs 5 & 6. Possibly some workbook from Navigators or Intervarsity might be good. (Possibly Jerry Bridges?) Hey, if your Italian car causes you to stumble, take the bus!
Thats one of the problems with using newer canons and versions like KJV. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
More about me :-)
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I've been a Christian for about a month now and I must say it is tough. The worst thing is combating biology, and I must say I understand why most Christians get married fairly young. I do like my nightly Bible study, and I am trying to learn as much as possible. Hopefully this will give me the strength to avoid temptation and sin.
Martin, my diamond... The temptation you've been wrestling with is as nothing beside the temptation I've felt to respond to this post in the fashion it deserves... but if you ask very very nicely I might give in to temptation... Rob Manderson http://www.mindprobes.net
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We need a Christian forum on CP at this rate.... How did you become a Christian ? Did you recieve the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues, or did you 'give your heart to Jesus' ( a process not found in the Bible ) ? I did the latter several times and found I struggled with alcohol and pr0n. When I did the former, which is what the Bible says, I lost the desire for both in an instant. When I was courting, I certainly sexually desired my future wife, and her me, but it was still not a struggle because we both knew what was right. We were both happy to build our relationship based on getting to know each other, and then bang on our wedding night. It was worth the wait. But my principle point is that if you're not *actually* a Christian, then all you've got is your mind battling against your natural senses. If you are a Christian, then you have God inside you internally motivating you to do good, and the problem ceases to exist. That is the point of the New Testament, instead of an external Law, the Law is written on our hearts. Christian I am completely intolerant of stupidity. Stupidity is, of course, anything that doesn't conform to my way of thinking. - Jamie Hale - 29/05/2002 Half the reason people switch away from VB is to find out what actually goes on.. and then like me they find out that they weren't quite as good as they thought - they've been nannied. - Alex, 13 June 2002
And I now have a second name on my idiot list... welcome Christian... Rob Manderson http://www.mindprobes.net
