So far it has been tough.
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Christian Graus wrote: This sounds exactly like the cycle I was on for two years prior to becoming an actual Christian. What do you mean by that!? I go to Church every Sunday, and I have Bible study every night. I have accepted Jesus Christ, so what else is there?
I've answered elsewhere, but the short answer is that as well as accepting Jesus, we need to do what He said. It seems you're pretty serious about it, to be doing a Bible study every night, but the Bible says in order to understand it you need the Holy Spirit. Luke 11 records Jesus saying that we need to keep asking until we have the Holy Spirit, and various parts of the Bible tell us how we know when we do - we speak in tongues. The Bible says this prayer language is necessary, and particularly useful when you feel you need to 'build yourself in the faith', as it says in Jude 20-21. There is a whole lot more scripture I could throw at you here, but the most pertinent thing is Acts 10 - a record of someone doing their best to follow God, but not filled with the Holy Spirit -> not a Christian. God responded by sending someone to tell Cornelius and household the full Gospel, so that they could respond to it and be saved. Christian I am completely intolerant of stupidity. Stupidity is, of course, anything that doesn't conform to my way of thinking. - Jamie Hale - 29/05/2002 Half the reason people switch away from VB is to find out what actually goes on.. and then like me they find out that they weren't quite as good as they thought - they've been nannied. - Alex, 13 June 2002
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Christian Graus wrote: Do you really want a list ? Start with 'marriage is honourable and the bed undefiled, but fornicators and adulterers, God will judge'. You are repeating the words of the Church, and not those of the Bible, For instance the hebrew word ZANAH has at least 3 major different meanings and different interpreters have chosen the meaning that was politically correct for there use. Or if you look in Mathew where the word fornication is used it was translated from the Greek "porneia" which has a wide variety of different meanings. I'm certain if either God or Jesus had wanted to make such an issue out of it they would have stated it clearly in the Bible, Instead of allowing various interpretations. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
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Colin Davies wrote: You are repeating the words of the Church, and not those of the Bible, I'm sorry, but I just quoted one of Pauls letters. The fact that marriage is a type of the union of Christ and the church goes a long way to explaining why it is that God feels this way, and also why He says that there should be no divorce between Christians. Colin Davies wrote: Or if you look in Mathew where the word fornication is used it was translated from the Greek "porneia" which has a wide variety of different meanings. I'm certain if either God or Jesus had wanted to make such an issue out of it they would have stated it clearly in the Bible, Instead of allowing various interpretations. I think it's crystal clear in the NT. You'd need to mount a case for the Bible NOT being clear, in terms of the translation being wrong, if you wanted to argue that it was OK to have sex outside of marriage. for what reason do you believe the Corinthian church was told to expel a member ? From memory the word 'fornication' is used. Christian I am completely intolerant of stupidity. Stupidity is, of course, anything that doesn't conform to my way of thinking. - Jamie Hale - 29/05/2002 Half the reason people switch away from VB is to find out what actually goes on.. and then like me they find out that they weren't quite as good as they thought - they've been nannied. - Alex, 13 June 2002
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Maybe you're just gettin' older and slower ;) cheers, Chris Maunder Rub your belly and pat your head simultaneously. Sometimes that helps me make sense of things - Jon Sagara
Chris Maunder wrote: Maybe you're just gettin' older and slower Older? Absolutely! Slower? Well, when I play rock & roll, I still spend half the night airborne, so I must not be falling apart just yet! ;P Chistopher Duncan Author - The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Apress)
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Colin Davies wrote: You are repeating the words of the Church, and not those of the Bible, I'm sorry, but I just quoted one of Pauls letters. The fact that marriage is a type of the union of Christ and the church goes a long way to explaining why it is that God feels this way, and also why He says that there should be no divorce between Christians. Colin Davies wrote: Or if you look in Mathew where the word fornication is used it was translated from the Greek "porneia" which has a wide variety of different meanings. I'm certain if either God or Jesus had wanted to make such an issue out of it they would have stated it clearly in the Bible, Instead of allowing various interpretations. I think it's crystal clear in the NT. You'd need to mount a case for the Bible NOT being clear, in terms of the translation being wrong, if you wanted to argue that it was OK to have sex outside of marriage. for what reason do you believe the Corinthian church was told to expel a member ? From memory the word 'fornication' is used. Christian I am completely intolerant of stupidity. Stupidity is, of course, anything that doesn't conform to my way of thinking. - Jamie Hale - 29/05/2002 Half the reason people switch away from VB is to find out what actually goes on.. and then like me they find out that they weren't quite as good as they thought - they've been nannied. - Alex, 13 June 2002
Christian what is sexual immorality, Holding hands ? Kissing on the face ? Kissing on the lips ? Massaging ? Fodiling ? ..... ? Fornication has many different interpretations, Remember Clinton I did not have sex with Ms Lewinski The OT was far more explicit in what it said and condemmed. Also being expelled from a church is not revocation of rights have your sins forgiven or to enter Heaven. BTW:: I'm not a big fan of Paul, Much prefer Peter and James. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
More about me :-)
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Christian what is sexual immorality, Holding hands ? Kissing on the face ? Kissing on the lips ? Massaging ? Fodiling ? ..... ? Fornication has many different interpretations, Remember Clinton I did not have sex with Ms Lewinski The OT was far more explicit in what it said and condemmed. Also being expelled from a church is not revocation of rights have your sins forgiven or to enter Heaven. BTW:: I'm not a big fan of Paul, Much prefer Peter and James. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
More about me :-)
Colin Davies wrote: what is sexual immorality, Easy. It's genital contact, directly or indirectly, for the purpose of sexual stimulation. Colin Davies wrote: Remember Clinton I did not have sex with Ms Lewinski Clinton was a weasel. The world agrees that he did. Colin Davies wrote: Also being expelled from a church is not revocation of rights have your sins forgiven or to enter Heaven. I did not mean to say otherwise. Colin Davies wrote: BTW:: I'm not a big fan of Paul, Much prefer Peter and James. I'm very fond of James, but a percieved dichotomy is a claim that the Bible is not inspired by God, and we can choose the opinion of the person we agree with. In that case, why does it need to be someone who lived 2000 years ago ? Christian I am completely intolerant of stupidity. Stupidity is, of course, anything that doesn't conform to my way of thinking. - Jamie Hale - 29/05/2002 Half the reason people switch away from VB is to find out what actually goes on.. and then like me they find out that they weren't quite as good as they thought - they've been nannied. - Alex, 13 June 2002
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Christopher Duncan wrote: Don't recall the biblical justification for it though. The only real thing is the commandment "Thou shalt not commit adultery". I can quote you in the bible where it is against celibacy Starting in Genesis 2:18 and through, Marriage is considered honourable in many places as well. And the use of the verb "to fornicate" has several different translations. But I do not believe anywhere in all the Canons including the Ethiopian ones is it said "that a young hetrosexual couple" must remain chaste and pure. I seriously wonder about "churches" that preach stuff that can not be found clearly in the bible. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
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Math 5:28 Jesus said if you even look on a woman with lust in your heart you have committed adultery. Elsewhere: "treat the young women as sisters, with absolute purity" Job said "I have made a covenant with my eyes not to look upon a maid [again, with lust]" Colin- there are a zillion places, literally. So the bad news is, we are all adulterers, to one degree or another. The situation is not magically solved by marriage - only new problems occur. Marvin should thank God for his biology. Frankly, I'm more concerned that he's going to a bible study every night. I hope this isn't the International Church of Christ. Maybe Marvin could read Proverbs 5 & 6. Possibly some workbook from Navigators or Intervarsity might be good. (Possibly Jerry Bridges?) Hey, if your Italian car causes you to stumble, take the bus!
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Math 5:28 Jesus said if you even look on a woman with lust in your heart you have committed adultery. Elsewhere: "treat the young women as sisters, with absolute purity" Job said "I have made a covenant with my eyes not to look upon a maid [again, with lust]" Colin- there are a zillion places, literally. So the bad news is, we are all adulterers, to one degree or another. The situation is not magically solved by marriage - only new problems occur. Marvin should thank God for his biology. Frankly, I'm more concerned that he's going to a bible study every night. I hope this isn't the International Church of Christ. Maybe Marvin could read Proverbs 5 & 6. Possibly some workbook from Navigators or Intervarsity might be good. (Possibly Jerry Bridges?) Hey, if your Italian car causes you to stumble, take the bus!
Thats one of the problems with using newer canons and versions like KJV. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
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I've been a Christian for about a month now and I must say it is tough. The worst thing is combating biology, and I must say I understand why most Christians get married fairly young. I do like my nightly Bible study, and I am trying to learn as much as possible. Hopefully this will give me the strength to avoid temptation and sin.
Martin, my diamond... The temptation you've been wrestling with is as nothing beside the temptation I've felt to respond to this post in the fashion it deserves... but if you ask very very nicely I might give in to temptation... Rob Manderson http://www.mindprobes.net
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We need a Christian forum on CP at this rate.... How did you become a Christian ? Did you recieve the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues, or did you 'give your heart to Jesus' ( a process not found in the Bible ) ? I did the latter several times and found I struggled with alcohol and pr0n. When I did the former, which is what the Bible says, I lost the desire for both in an instant. When I was courting, I certainly sexually desired my future wife, and her me, but it was still not a struggle because we both knew what was right. We were both happy to build our relationship based on getting to know each other, and then bang on our wedding night. It was worth the wait. But my principle point is that if you're not *actually* a Christian, then all you've got is your mind battling against your natural senses. If you are a Christian, then you have God inside you internally motivating you to do good, and the problem ceases to exist. That is the point of the New Testament, instead of an external Law, the Law is written on our hearts. Christian I am completely intolerant of stupidity. Stupidity is, of course, anything that doesn't conform to my way of thinking. - Jamie Hale - 29/05/2002 Half the reason people switch away from VB is to find out what actually goes on.. and then like me they find out that they weren't quite as good as they thought - they've been nannied. - Alex, 13 June 2002
And I now have a second name on my idiot list... welcome Christian... Rob Manderson http://www.mindprobes.net
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And I now have a second name on my idiot list... welcome Christian... Rob Manderson http://www.mindprobes.net
Well, that's lovely. The list of people who care is two shorter. Christian I am completely intolerant of stupidity. Stupidity is, of course, anything that doesn't conform to my way of thinking. - Jamie Hale - 29/05/2002 Half the reason people switch away from VB is to find out what actually goes on.. and then like me they find out that they weren't quite as good as they thought - they've been nannied. - Alex, 13 June 2002
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I've been a Christian for about a month now and I must say it is tough. The worst thing is combating biology, and I must say I understand why most Christians get married fairly young. I do like my nightly Bible study, and I am trying to learn as much as possible. Hopefully this will give me the strength to avoid temptation and sin.
Well done! I walked the same road just over a year ago, and I can honestly say I'm a better person for it. :) Whatever you do though, don't fall into the trap of blindly trying to believe what others tell you the Bible means...read it for yourself, and follow your heart. If something doesn't seem to fit, question it. ;) Andy Metcalfe - Sonardyne International Ltd
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"I would be careful in separating your wierdness, a good quirky weirdness, from the disturbed wierdness of people who take pleasure from PVC sheep with fruit repositories." - Paul Watson -
And I now have a second name on my idiot list... welcome Christian... Rob Manderson http://www.mindprobes.net
Rob Manderson wrote: And I now have a second name on my idiot list... welcome Christian... I could say at this point that you're the first on mine...but I'm not that small minded so I won't. ;P Christian may be opinionated (as many of us are here) but he's most certainly no idiot. Andy Metcalfe - Sonardyne International Ltd
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"I would be careful in separating your wierdness, a good quirky weirdness, from the disturbed wierdness of people who take pleasure from PVC sheep with fruit repositories." - Paul Watson -
Rob Manderson wrote: And I now have a second name on my idiot list... welcome Christian... I could say at this point that you're the first on mine...but I'm not that small minded so I won't. ;P Christian may be opinionated (as many of us are here) but he's most certainly no idiot. Andy Metcalfe - Sonardyne International Ltd
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"I would be careful in separating your wierdness, a good quirky weirdness, from the disturbed wierdness of people who take pleasure from PVC sheep with fruit repositories." - Paul Watsonawwwwwww go on - let me be the first!!!! Rob Manderson http://www.mindprobes.net
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I've been a Christian for about a month now and I must say it is tough. The worst thing is combating biology, and I must say I understand why most Christians get married fairly young. I do like my nightly Bible study, and I am trying to learn as much as possible. Hopefully this will give me the strength to avoid temptation and sin.
Congratulations... Just a few comments that I hope will help you. Pray without ceasing, the bible says. Without the true relationship with God it's all in vain anyway. You're merely practicing an empty religion just for it's own sake. You will not last long. The most important thing in the universe is God. Get to know him through the bible study, but don't be afraid to ask him for everything you need in prayer. His greatest desire is for you to make it through all these struggles, he will not abandon you to fend for yourself. Secondly, remember that you are a new creation in Christ, created for good works. You have put off the old and have put on the new. Basically this means that the sinful man you once were has been crucified with Christ, buried with him in baptism and you have been ressurected with him into a new life. This does not mean you will not struggle, but it does mean that you can win. God has promised that you will not be given more than you can handle, with every temptation there will ALWAYS be a way of escape. Remember that as a disciple of Jesus you are called to take up that same cross of self-denial daily and follow him. Whenever the temptations come it will be tough, and it may never get easier, but you will grow. Just remember, pray without ceasing. Thirdly, there is not a man or woman alive who does not sin. 1 John teaches us that we need to walk in the light of God's grace. You will sin, you will mess up occasionally, but it will become less and less if you are growing as a christian. Jesus' death on the cross is sufficient to cover any sin you may end up doing. As long as your heart remains devoted to God, you will always dust yourself off and move on. No turning back, though. ;) Fourthly, you won't make it on your own. You need to walk through this world in fellowship of believers as the disciples did in the New Testament. Lions usually take out the sick, the weak, and the strays from a herd. God created you in this new life of yours to be part of a body, figuratively and otherwise. If you need anything else let me know. Take care. "Tell me about the god you don't believe in, and I probably wouldn't believe in him either." - Unknown
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I've been a Christian for all my life and got married at 29. The problem with your approach is that you associate "sin" with sex before marriage. But, AFAIK, this is not such a "terrible sin" - if you want to be a good Christian, just be good and kind to other people, don't lie and be patient with your enemies. If you bang some chick down the road - well you don't want to be a saint, do you? I vote pro drink :beer:
You must have a different version of the Bible than I do. :omg: Or perhaps someone accidentally tore 1 Corinthians out of yours. Better double-check your definition of Christianity. "Tell me about the god you don't believe in, and I probably wouldn't believe in him either." - Unknown
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I spent a lot of my younger years as a musician doing the sex, drugs and rock & roll thing. Needless to say, I woke up with a lot of women whose names I couldn't even remember. Somewhere down the line, as I got older and my values changed, I reached a point where sex without an emotional connection was an empty experience for me. Now don't get me wrong, I still love sex with beautiful women, but these days if it's not someone I want to wake up and hug the next morning, I'd truly just rather sleep alone. So, the biological urges are definately still there, but because of what I believe in and am holding out for (i.e., good old fashioned, idealistic, romantic love), it's not a hardship. I'm sure you that you will draw similar strength from the power of your own beliefs. Discipline is just a habit. Once established, it's easily maintianed. Chistopher Duncan Author - The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Apress)
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Where exactly in the Bible are you getting the notion that you can not have premarital sex with a female ? Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
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Colin Davies wrote: Where exactly in the Bible are you getting the notion that you can not have premarital sex with a female ? Here actually. and here. And here. And here. To name a few. It all depends on your definition of the greek word porneia. In all cases it refers more or less to having sex or sexual acts with someone(or something) other than your spouse. X| One should not feel guilty for struggling with lust. But to actually go out and act on the urge is another matter entirely. "Tell me about the god you don't believe in, and I probably wouldn't believe in him either." - Unknown
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Well done! I walked the same road just over a year ago, and I can honestly say I'm a better person for it. :) Whatever you do though, don't fall into the trap of blindly trying to believe what others tell you the Bible means...read it for yourself, and follow your heart. If something doesn't seem to fit, question it. ;) Andy Metcalfe - Sonardyne International Ltd
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"I would be careful in separating your wierdness, a good quirky weirdness, from the disturbed wierdness of people who take pleasure from PVC sheep with fruit repositories." - Paul WatsonAndy Metcalfe wrote: Whatever you do though, don't fall into the trap of blindly trying to believe what others tell you the Bible means...read it for yourself, and follow your heart. If something doesn't seem to fit, question it. Amen to that. Though in some cases it's safe to take a person's word for it, never should you believe anyone who demands you take there word for it, or else! God doesn't even treat us so poorly. We are called to investigate, to think, to seach, to examine, to meditate, to discern, and yes, to question. Christianity is possibly the only religion that admits in advance there there will be a lot of phony versions of itself out there. Basically the only yard stick we have to go by is God's word. Forget "church traditions", "personal spiritual insight", or "the teachings of men". If they do not agree with the overall teachings of the scriptures, chuck em. Beware of pride though. Many a young bible student walked away from perfectly correct biblical instruction simply becuase they were too proud to admit that they were wrong. "Tell me about the god you don't believe in, and I probably wouldn't believe in him either." - Unknown
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Colin Davies wrote: Where exactly in the Bible are you getting the notion that you can not have premarital sex with a female ? Here actually. and here. And here. And here. To name a few. It all depends on your definition of the greek word porneia. In all cases it refers more or less to having sex or sexual acts with someone(or something) other than your spouse. X| One should not feel guilty for struggling with lust. But to actually go out and act on the urge is another matter entirely. "Tell me about the god you don't believe in, and I probably wouldn't believe in him either." - Unknown
Another reading of it shows its an opinion. When considering John 1:17 - NKJV For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. Would you then listen to Corinthians ? As far as I'm concerned anywhere that breaks with the 6 major Gospels should have a big red line drawn through it as a satanic infiltration. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
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Another reading of it shows its an opinion. When considering John 1:17 - NKJV For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. Would you then listen to Corinthians ? As far as I'm concerned anywhere that breaks with the 6 major Gospels should have a big red line drawn through it as a satanic infiltration. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
More about me :-)
Using non-existant satanic infiltration of scripture as an excuse to sin is satanic infiltration of the mind. The God who created the universe is powerful enough to protect his word from corruption.
"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. " - 2 Timothy 3:16-17 "Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit." - 2 Peter 1:20-12 "So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen." - 2 Peter 3:!4-18This is not to mention that within the "major gospels" as you call them, Jesus himself commanded us to flee fornication, repent and keep ourselves pure. Take care. "Tell me about the god you don't believe in, and I probably wouldn't believe in him either." - Unknown