The US as a banana republic
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Doesn't the obvious fact that we are going to have an election in another year and that we have a congress that is fully functional and constitutionally empowered to investigate the president's activities all they like, make you and Andrew feel kind of stupid at comparing us to a banana republic? Hell, if you and Andrew want leadership that gives full constitutional rights to foreign terrorist for the first time in our history, than vote for them. I'll vote for the guy who wants to shove red hot spikes through their fucking Islamic eyes. Democracy in action! Besides, if roughing up a few forgien terrorsits makes us a banana republic, what did droppoing nuclear bombs on Japanese mothers making breakfast for their children makes us?
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Doesn't the obvious fact...
Doesn't the obvious fact that 'The US as a banana republic' is a simile make you feel stupid for pointing out that is is not exact. Wow, amazing!
Stan Shannon wrote:
Besides, if roughing up a few forgien terrorsits makes us a banana republic
No, Guess you didn't actually do any reading: "What defines such a republic? How about an executive that ignores the rule of law, commits war-crimes and then destroys the actual evidence?"
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Stan Shannon wrote:
Doesn't the obvious fact...
Doesn't the obvious fact that 'The US as a banana republic' is a simile make you feel stupid for pointing out that is is not exact. Wow, amazing!
Stan Shannon wrote:
Besides, if roughing up a few forgien terrorsits makes us a banana republic
No, Guess you didn't actually do any reading: "What defines such a republic? How about an executive that ignores the rule of law, commits war-crimes and then destroys the actual evidence?"
oilFactotum wrote:
What defines such a republic? How about an executive that ignores the rule of law, commits war-crimes and then destroys the actual evidence?"
And who will peacefully step down in another year and be subject to any investigations congress wishes to initiate. So your little 'simile' is as retarded as everything else you and Andrew typically yap about. If all you lefties want to impeach a president for defending the nation than you should grow some testicles and do it.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
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oilFactotum wrote:
What defines such a republic? How about an executive that ignores the rule of law, commits war-crimes and then destroys the actual evidence?"
And who will peacefully step down in another year and be subject to any investigations congress wishes to initiate. So your little 'simile' is as retarded as everything else you and Andrew typically yap about. If all you lefties want to impeach a president for defending the nation than you should grow some testicles and do it.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
Stan Shannon wrote:
And who will peacefully step down in another year
Doesn't excuse him for an instant. I'm not suprised that you somehow think it does.
Stan Shannon wrote:
defending the nation
Unfortunately that is exactly what he is not doing.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
And who will peacefully step down in another year
Doesn't excuse him for an instant. I'm not suprised that you somehow think it does.
Stan Shannon wrote:
defending the nation
Unfortunately that is exactly what he is not doing.
oilFactotum wrote:
Doesn't excuse him for an instant. I'm not suprised that you somehow think it does.
If he isn't impeached, he doesn't need an excuse.
oilFactotum wrote:
Unfortunately that is exactly what he is not doing.
Fortunantely, no one elected you or Andrew to have a say in defining what is necessary for defense.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
Doesn't the obvious fact...
Doesn't the obvious fact that 'The US as a banana republic' is a simile make you feel stupid for pointing out that is is not exact. Wow, amazing!
Stan Shannon wrote:
Besides, if roughing up a few forgien terrorsits makes us a banana republic
No, Guess you didn't actually do any reading: "What defines such a republic? How about an executive that ignores the rule of law, commits war-crimes and then destroys the actual evidence?"
I guess the message to take home from that 'article' is that if you don't want trouble, don't take a shoe bomb onto an international flight full of innocent people.
Try code model generation tools at BoneSoft.com.
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http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2007/12/this-is-a-banan.html[^] "We live in a country where the government can detain indefinitely, torture in secret, and then secretly destroy the tapes of torture sessions to protect its own staff"
The one case that really talks about is Padilla. And his legal team seems to think that "sensory deprivation, sleep deprivation & enforced stress positions" constitutes torture. And if that can be considered torture, I should be able to sue the bank and the DMV for making me stand in line.
Try code model generation tools at BoneSoft.com.
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oilFactotum wrote:
What defines such a republic? How about an executive that ignores the rule of law, commits war-crimes and then destroys the actual evidence?"
And who will peacefully step down in another year and be subject to any investigations congress wishes to initiate. So your little 'simile' is as retarded as everything else you and Andrew typically yap about. If all you lefties want to impeach a president for defending the nation than you should grow some testicles and do it.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
We are doing it, we're starting with Cheney. Be careful what you wish for. And stop insinuating that being a liberal indicates some lack of manliness, it's ridiculous.
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The one case that really talks about is Padilla. And his legal team seems to think that "sensory deprivation, sleep deprivation & enforced stress positions" constitutes torture. And if that can be considered torture, I should be able to sue the bank and the DMV for making me stand in line.
Try code model generation tools at BoneSoft.com.
BoneSoft wrote:
And his legal team seems to think that "sensory deprivation, sleep deprivation & enforced stress positions" constitutes torture.
Sensory or sleep deprivation is torture. So are enforced stress positions. You know this, but you pretend it's no big deal to ease your conscience. If those techniques were not torture, why would they be used to extract information? Making someone slightly uncomfortable is not going to accomplish anything and you know that, too. But, sure, it's like being at the DMV. Whatever helps you get through the day as a torturer by proxy. Be careful, though, torture breaks down the torturer as surely as it breaks down the victim.
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The one case that really talks about is Padilla. And his legal team seems to think that "sensory deprivation, sleep deprivation & enforced stress positions" constitutes torture. And if that can be considered torture, I should be able to sue the bank and the DMV for making me stand in line.
Try code model generation tools at BoneSoft.com.
BoneSoft wrote:
seems to think that "sensory deprivation, sleep deprivation & enforced stress positions" constitutes torture.
They don't just 'seem to think it'. They are crimes under US law.
BoneSoft wrote:
I should be able to sue the bank and the DMV for making me stand in line.
X| I honestly hope you don't really believe that.
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oilFactotum wrote:
Doesn't excuse him for an instant. I'm not suprised that you somehow think it does.
If he isn't impeached, he doesn't need an excuse.
oilFactotum wrote:
Unfortunately that is exactly what he is not doing.
Fortunantely, no one elected you or Andrew to have a say in defining what is necessary for defense.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
Stan Shannon wrote:
he doesn't need an excuse.
He has no excuse. He broke US law, he did it in secret and destroyed the evidence.
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First off you're wrong. Replace "WMD's" with "atomic weapons" and you're correct. But... Ask virtually any Japanese about that and they'll tell you that it was justified and it almost certainly saved lives. They'll tell you that the Japanese government would not have stopped until every man woman and child had died fighting. They'll tell you it was probably the only way to end the war. It was horrible and disgusting, but circumstances are important to consider. I won't say it was the best decision, I wouldn't want to have to make it, but it may have been the only recourse, and may have even been the right move. And though far removed, I may have been touched by it more than most critics I've met that like to throw that around. My mother in law died as a result of the Nagasaki bomb. She was stuffed into a stone oven shortly before the blast, and died of a rare cancer years later.
Try code model generation tools at BoneSoft.com.
BoneSoft wrote:
Ask virtually any Japanese about that and they'll tell you that it was justified and it almost certainly saved lives.
You've got to be kidding me. Saved lives, maybe, but we dropped those bombs on civilian targets. The nation of Japan has been in a state of cultural mourning for the victims of the attack ever since it happened.
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First off you're wrong. Replace "WMD's" with "atomic weapons" and you're correct. But... Ask virtually any Japanese about that and they'll tell you that it was justified and it almost certainly saved lives. They'll tell you that the Japanese government would not have stopped until every man woman and child had died fighting. They'll tell you it was probably the only way to end the war. It was horrible and disgusting, but circumstances are important to consider. I won't say it was the best decision, I wouldn't want to have to make it, but it may have been the only recourse, and may have even been the right move. And though far removed, I may have been touched by it more than most critics I've met that like to throw that around. My mother in law died as a result of the Nagasaki bomb. She was stuffed into a stone oven shortly before the blast, and died of a rare cancer years later.
Try code model generation tools at BoneSoft.com.
BoneSoft wrote:
First off you're wrong. Replace "WMD's" with "atomic weapons" and you're correct.
I'm curious about your meaning. If atomic weapons are not WMD's then nothing is.
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BoneSoft wrote:
Ask virtually any Japanese about that and they'll tell you that it was justified and it almost certainly saved lives.
You've got to be kidding me. Saved lives, maybe, but we dropped those bombs on civilian targets. The nation of Japan has been in a state of cultural mourning for the victims of the attack ever since it happened.
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
we dropped those bombs on civilian targets
They are part of the war machine, they are the foundation of it.
Word, write letters and sh*t yo.
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We are doing it, we're starting with Cheney. Be careful what you wish for. And stop insinuating that being a liberal indicates some lack of manliness, it's ridiculous.
Being all talk and no walk is typically considered a lack of manliness. Go ahead and impeach them for defending the nation, I have nothing to lose from that. If they are guilty they should be impeached, if they are not it will destroy the democrat party. Either way, I win.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
he doesn't need an excuse.
He has no excuse. He broke US law, he did it in secret and destroyed the evidence.
So impeach him. Whats the problem?
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
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And when the U.S. economy melts-down, you'll have the economics of one too. Bush may be a war President, but he certainly isn't an economics President...
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BoneSoft wrote:
Ask virtually any Japanese about that and they'll tell you that it was justified and it almost certainly saved lives.
You've got to be kidding me. Saved lives, maybe, but we dropped those bombs on civilian targets. The nation of Japan has been in a state of cultural mourning for the victims of the attack ever since it happened.
So FDR and Truman were at least as evil as Bush?
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
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BoneSoft wrote:
And his legal team seems to think that "sensory deprivation, sleep deprivation & enforced stress positions" constitutes torture.
Sensory or sleep deprivation is torture. So are enforced stress positions. You know this, but you pretend it's no big deal to ease your conscience. If those techniques were not torture, why would they be used to extract information? Making someone slightly uncomfortable is not going to accomplish anything and you know that, too. But, sure, it's like being at the DMV. Whatever helps you get through the day as a torturer by proxy. Be careful, though, torture breaks down the torturer as surely as it breaks down the victim.
Some have argued that being nice to people is the best way to extract information. By your definition, does that make being nice to people torture? Or does any method of extracting information constitute torture? Does that make it wrong to extract information at all? Give me a break. Even with sleep and sensory deprivation and stress enforced positions, they're more comfortable than your every day homeless person. I sleep just fine knowing that that's happening to people that want me dead.
Try code model generation tools at BoneSoft.com.
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BoneSoft wrote:
seems to think that "sensory deprivation, sleep deprivation & enforced stress positions" constitutes torture.
They don't just 'seem to think it'. They are crimes under US law.
BoneSoft wrote:
I should be able to sue the bank and the DMV for making me stand in line.
X| I honestly hope you don't really believe that.
Come on, I'll agree with you that water boarding can be considered torture, but sleep and sensory deprivation? That happens in prison daily and nobody has a problem with it. Anybody with a child under 2 is subjected to that, constantly.
Try code model generation tools at BoneSoft.com.
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BoneSoft wrote:
And his legal team seems to think that "sensory deprivation, sleep deprivation & enforced stress positions" constitutes torture.
Sensory or sleep deprivation is torture. So are enforced stress positions. You know this, but you pretend it's no big deal to ease your conscience. If those techniques were not torture, why would they be used to extract information? Making someone slightly uncomfortable is not going to accomplish anything and you know that, too. But, sure, it's like being at the DMV. Whatever helps you get through the day as a torturer by proxy. Be careful, though, torture breaks down the torturer as surely as it breaks down the victim.
Yep, after reading that again, as written you are saying that torture is the only way to extract information. And if that were true I'd say torture the crap out of them. But if that were true, anybody that hands you a form to fill out or asks you what time it is is torturing you. I suspect that wasn't your intent, but what you write is all I've got to go on, and you definitely see things from a different perspective than I do so I don't dare guess at your meaning.
Try code model generation tools at BoneSoft.com.