The US as a banana republic
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Stan Shannon wrote:
that means you lose.
And what's your point? If I lose, so do you. Your image of the president as a man above the law, limited by nothing other than a congress's willingness (or unwillingness) to impeach him is a dangerous president - to you as well as me. He would be a president not unlike Al Capone in the 20's. If you really believe your own retoric about "leftists" then you should be terrified by the precedents being made by Bush. Your support of all of Bush's antics will only hasten the socialist utopia you so fear.
Stan Shannon wrote:
your agenda
My agenda? You really believe the rule of law is a partisan political agenda?
oilFactotum wrote:
If I lose, so do you. Your image of the president as a man above the law, limited by nothing other than a congress's willingness (or unwillingness) to impeach him is a dangerous president - to you as well as me. He would be a president not unlike Al Capone in the 20's. If you really believe your own retoric about "leftists" then you should be terrified by the precedents being made by Bush. Your support of all of Bush's antics will only hasten the socialist utopia you so fear.
If our government is as badly broken as you must believe it to be to think as you do about Bush than he is precisely the kind of person I want to have running things. Why would I want to see that kind of flawed power handed over to the Marxist left as represented by Clinton, Obama or Edwards? For my part, I don't believe anything is broken at all. For the most part, things are working precisely as they should. A good leader knows when to push the envelope in order to fulfill his constitutional responsibilities - which includes far more than an obsequious subservience to every possible interepretation of the US legal code. The threat we face from radical Islam is far worse than anything Bush and company have done even if everthing you say is completely valid. If he as crossed lines he didn't need to, than he should be punished. But that does not mean that he was wrong.
oilFactotum wrote:
You really believe the rule of law is a partisan political agenda?
You're damned right I do.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
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http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2007/12/this-is-a-banan.html[^] "We live in a country where the government can detain indefinitely, torture in secret, and then secretly destroy the tapes of torture sessions to protect its own staff"
oilFactotum wrote:
"We live in a country where the government can detain indefinitely, torture in secret, and then secretly destroy the tapes of torture sessions to protect its own staff"
No, we live in a country where dumbass liberals can spew out their ignorance with wild abandon. In what country and what war have non-uniformed, enemy combatants taken prisoner on a battle field been given jury trials? We had several hundred thousand German soldiers as prisoners during WWII and only a handful got trials. And most of those were hanged. Is that the kind of trial they are looking for? And I thought Scooter Libby got into all sorts of hot water with the left for not remembering who publicized a CIA employee's name. And now these same people want videos of interrogations that may contain classified material? Does the CIA have a video lending library?
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oilFactotum wrote:
If I lose, so do you. Your image of the president as a man above the law, limited by nothing other than a congress's willingness (or unwillingness) to impeach him is a dangerous president - to you as well as me. He would be a president not unlike Al Capone in the 20's. If you really believe your own retoric about "leftists" then you should be terrified by the precedents being made by Bush. Your support of all of Bush's antics will only hasten the socialist utopia you so fear.
If our government is as badly broken as you must believe it to be to think as you do about Bush than he is precisely the kind of person I want to have running things. Why would I want to see that kind of flawed power handed over to the Marxist left as represented by Clinton, Obama or Edwards? For my part, I don't believe anything is broken at all. For the most part, things are working precisely as they should. A good leader knows when to push the envelope in order to fulfill his constitutional responsibilities - which includes far more than an obsequious subservience to every possible interepretation of the US legal code. The threat we face from radical Islam is far worse than anything Bush and company have done even if everthing you say is completely valid. If he as crossed lines he didn't need to, than he should be punished. But that does not mean that he was wrong.
oilFactotum wrote:
You really believe the rule of law is a partisan political agenda?
You're damned right I do.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Bush than he is precisely the kind of person I want to have running things.
But he's not going to be for very much longer and Clinton, Obama or Edwards may very well be the next president. So, your support and agreement that the president should be above the law, and break his oath to protect the constitution, will lead to the realization of you fear of a socialist distopia. You are actively participating in the destruction of everything you claim to believe in.
Stan Shannon wrote:
threat we face from radical Islam is far worse than anything Bush and company have done even if everthing you say is completely valid.
The only real and fundamental threat we face from radical Islam is that we will turn away from our constitution and our way of life and embrace the barbarism of those that oppose us. You are a disheartening example of that barbarism.
Stan Shannon wrote:
as crossed lines he didn't need to, than he should be punished. But that does not mean that he was wrong.
Well yes, that is exactly what it means. If he crossed the line, he is wrong.
Stan Shannon wrote:
You're damned right I do.
Then you clearly have no respect for the constitution or anything this country has ever stood for. I pity you.X|
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Stan Shannon wrote:
Bush than he is precisely the kind of person I want to have running things.
But he's not going to be for very much longer and Clinton, Obama or Edwards may very well be the next president. So, your support and agreement that the president should be above the law, and break his oath to protect the constitution, will lead to the realization of you fear of a socialist distopia. You are actively participating in the destruction of everything you claim to believe in.
Stan Shannon wrote:
threat we face from radical Islam is far worse than anything Bush and company have done even if everthing you say is completely valid.
The only real and fundamental threat we face from radical Islam is that we will turn away from our constitution and our way of life and embrace the barbarism of those that oppose us. You are a disheartening example of that barbarism.
Stan Shannon wrote:
as crossed lines he didn't need to, than he should be punished. But that does not mean that he was wrong.
Well yes, that is exactly what it means. If he crossed the line, he is wrong.
Stan Shannon wrote:
You're damned right I do.
Then you clearly have no respect for the constitution or anything this country has ever stood for. I pity you.X|
oilFactotum wrote:
Then you clearly have no respect for the constitution or anything this country has ever stood for
I sure as hell have no respect for any constitution someone like you would defend.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
Bush than he is precisely the kind of person I want to have running things.
But he's not going to be for very much longer and Clinton, Obama or Edwards may very well be the next president. So, your support and agreement that the president should be above the law, and break his oath to protect the constitution, will lead to the realization of you fear of a socialist distopia. You are actively participating in the destruction of everything you claim to believe in.
Stan Shannon wrote:
threat we face from radical Islam is far worse than anything Bush and company have done even if everthing you say is completely valid.
The only real and fundamental threat we face from radical Islam is that we will turn away from our constitution and our way of life and embrace the barbarism of those that oppose us. You are a disheartening example of that barbarism.
Stan Shannon wrote:
as crossed lines he didn't need to, than he should be punished. But that does not mean that he was wrong.
Well yes, that is exactly what it means. If he crossed the line, he is wrong.
Stan Shannon wrote:
You're damned right I do.
Then you clearly have no respect for the constitution or anything this country has ever stood for. I pity you.X|
oilFactotum wrote:
The only real and fundamental threat we face from radical Islam is that we will turn away from our constitution and our way of life and embrace the barbarism of those that oppose us. You are a disheartening example of that barbarism.
Yet isn't it odd that meeting our enemies on their own terms during WWII, and going far beyond their own brutality did not result in us becoming what they were, it merely resulted in us defeating them. These current events were an opportunity for the left to show that it had out grown the teason of the Vietnam generation of leftists and unite in a great national effort to defeat a truly evil and determined foe. You guys instead opted to turn on your own country, to make it the source of evil. Well, fine. We all know where we stand now.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
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oilFactotum wrote:
The only real and fundamental threat we face from radical Islam is that we will turn away from our constitution and our way of life and embrace the barbarism of those that oppose us. You are a disheartening example of that barbarism.
Yet isn't it odd that meeting our enemies on their own terms during WWII, and going far beyond their own brutality did not result in us becoming what they were, it merely resulted in us defeating them. These current events were an opportunity for the left to show that it had out grown the teason of the Vietnam generation of leftists and unite in a great national effort to defeat a truly evil and determined foe. You guys instead opted to turn on your own country, to make it the source of evil. Well, fine. We all know where we stand now.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Well, fine. We all know where we stand now.
We do. You embrace evil, I oppose it.
Stan Shannon wrote:
and going far beyond their own brutality
Oh yeah, I forgot about all those death camps that we built in the US. Did we use Zyklon-B or something else? Did we gas 6 or 8 million, I forget. Silly me. How many civilians did we execute in France after we occupied it? What was the name of those death marches of German and Japanese prisoners where 25% of the prisoners died before reaching a prison camp? Do you have any of those pictures of American soldiers beheading unarmed prisoners? Oh wait - None of that happened!
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oilFactotum wrote:
Then you clearly have no respect for the constitution or anything this country has ever stood for
I sure as hell have no respect for any constitution someone like you would defend.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
Stan Shannon wrote:
I sure as hell have no respect for any constitution someone like you would defend.
That would be the US Constitution. Thanks for clearing that up.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
I sure as hell have no respect for any constitution someone like you would defend.
That would be the US Constitution. Thanks for clearing that up.
oilFactotum wrote:
That would be the US Constitution. Thanks for clearing that up.
No, that would be what used to be the US constitution before people such as yourself turned it into the Marxist monstrosity that it is today.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
Well, fine. We all know where we stand now.
We do. You embrace evil, I oppose it.
Stan Shannon wrote:
and going far beyond their own brutality
Oh yeah, I forgot about all those death camps that we built in the US. Did we use Zyklon-B or something else? Did we gas 6 or 8 million, I forget. Silly me. How many civilians did we execute in France after we occupied it? What was the name of those death marches of German and Japanese prisoners where 25% of the prisoners died before reaching a prison camp? Do you have any of those pictures of American soldiers beheading unarmed prisoners? Oh wait - None of that happened!
oilFactotum wrote:
You embrace evil
I do indeed when it is necessary to defeat evil. We Americans have always done so. We have always been just as fanatical and violent and merciless as our enemies when we needed to be. But then, we have always had faith that our institutions were resilient enough to return to normal when the threat had past - before people like you came along, that is.
oilFactotum wrote:
I oppose it.
You are evil in its purest form.
oilFactotum wrote:
Oh yeah, I forgot about all those death camps that we built in the US. Did we use Zyklon-B or something else? Did we gas 6 or 8 million, I forget. Silly me. How many civilians did we execute in France after we occupied it? What was the name of those death marches of German and Japanese prisoners where 25% of the prisoners died before reaching a prison camp? Do you have any of those pictures of American soldiers beheading unarmed prisoners? Oh wait - None of that happened!
And how many tons of high explosives did either Germany or Japan drop on American cities? How many American women and children were killed in German or Japanese fire bombing raids? How many Americans were incenerated by nuclear bombs? We won WWII precisely because we were able to inflict far more brutality upon our enemies than they upon us. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were destroyed for no other tactical reason beyond proving to the Japanese government what we were capable of. We were capable of just as much brutality and evil in defense of our principles as they were in defense of theirs - that is why they surrendered. That is the only way you can defeat evil. Evil will never yield to goodness alone.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
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oilFactotum wrote:
You embrace evil
I do indeed when it is necessary to defeat evil. We Americans have always done so. We have always been just as fanatical and violent and merciless as our enemies when we needed to be. But then, we have always had faith that our institutions were resilient enough to return to normal when the threat had past - before people like you came along, that is.
oilFactotum wrote:
I oppose it.
You are evil in its purest form.
oilFactotum wrote:
Oh yeah, I forgot about all those death camps that we built in the US. Did we use Zyklon-B or something else? Did we gas 6 or 8 million, I forget. Silly me. How many civilians did we execute in France after we occupied it? What was the name of those death marches of German and Japanese prisoners where 25% of the prisoners died before reaching a prison camp? Do you have any of those pictures of American soldiers beheading unarmed prisoners? Oh wait - None of that happened!
And how many tons of high explosives did either Germany or Japan drop on American cities? How many American women and children were killed in German or Japanese fire bombing raids? How many Americans were incenerated by nuclear bombs? We won WWII precisely because we were able to inflict far more brutality upon our enemies than they upon us. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were destroyed for no other tactical reason beyond proving to the Japanese government what we were capable of. We were capable of just as much brutality and evil in defense of our principles as they were in defense of theirs - that is why they surrendered. That is the only way you can defeat evil. Evil will never yield to goodness alone.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
Stan Shannon wrote:
I do indeed when it is necessary to defeat evil.
In our history it has never been.
Stan Shannon wrote:
We Americans have always done so.
Utterly false. You say that only to excuse your hate-filled desires.
Stan Shannon wrote:
You are evil in its purest form.
:laugh:
Stan Shannon wrote:
And how many tons of high explosives did either Germany or Japan drop on American cities?
England, China, Poland, Soviet Union to name just a few.
Stan Shannon wrote:
How many American women and children
England, China, Poland, Soviet Union to name just a few. It is your argument that the murder of 6 millions jews is exactly the same as the strategic bombing of Germany and Japan. That's the kind of moral equivalence that would be expected from one of your "leftists". That makes you a leftist.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Hiroshima and Nagasaki were destroyed for no other tactical reason beyond proving to the Japanese government what we were capable of.
Don't be a moron. The invasion of Japan would have cost 100's if thousands of American casualties and millions of Japanese. Your entire premise of America as the Evil Empire all to support an idiot president who thinks he should be emperor. As you define it you are a "leftist" of the worst kind.But that does make sense. Your entire belief centers around embracing all that you oppose. Need to fight leftists? You become a leftist. Even if you win, you lose. You defeat leftist by becoming a leftist. When the leftists are defeated the only ones who will be remain will be - leftists!
modified on Saturday, December 08, 2007 8:44:32 AM
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oilFactotum wrote:
That would be the US Constitution. Thanks for clearing that up.
No, that would be what used to be the US constitution before people such as yourself turned it into the Marxist monstrosity that it is today.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
Again, I thank you for being complete clear on this matter - you have no respect for the US Constitution.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
I do indeed when it is necessary to defeat evil.
In our history it has never been.
Stan Shannon wrote:
We Americans have always done so.
Utterly false. You say that only to excuse your hate-filled desires.
Stan Shannon wrote:
You are evil in its purest form.
:laugh:
Stan Shannon wrote:
And how many tons of high explosives did either Germany or Japan drop on American cities?
England, China, Poland, Soviet Union to name just a few.
Stan Shannon wrote:
How many American women and children
England, China, Poland, Soviet Union to name just a few. It is your argument that the murder of 6 millions jews is exactly the same as the strategic bombing of Germany and Japan. That's the kind of moral equivalence that would be expected from one of your "leftists". That makes you a leftist.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Hiroshima and Nagasaki were destroyed for no other tactical reason beyond proving to the Japanese government what we were capable of.
Don't be a moron. The invasion of Japan would have cost 100's if thousands of American casualties and millions of Japanese. Your entire premise of America as the Evil Empire all to support an idiot president who thinks he should be emperor. As you define it you are a "leftist" of the worst kind.But that does make sense. Your entire belief centers around embracing all that you oppose. Need to fight leftists? You become a leftist. Even if you win, you lose. You defeat leftist by becoming a leftist. When the leftists are defeated the only ones who will be remain will be - leftists!
modified on Saturday, December 08, 2007 8:44:32 AM
oilFactotum wrote:
The invasion of Japan would have cost 100's if thousands of American casualties and millions of Japanese.
Precisely. And not using every possible means of dealing with modern terrorist will also result in the lose of untold numbers of lives. Nuclear bombs, as evil as they were, were less evil than the alternatives. And water-boarding some asshole terrorist is less evil than the alternative of allowing their networks to persist. It is exactly the same kind of situation. Either you support efforts to defeat them even when the means is brutal and violates our closely held moral principles or you don't.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
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Again, I thank you for being complete clear on this matter - you have no respect for the US Constitution.
oilFactotum wrote:
you have no respect for the US Constitution
I respect the constitution as it was originally written, but there is, in fact, very little about the modern constitution that I respect. Including the part where the president is less empowered to interpret it than the supreme court is. The excutive branch is equal to the judicial branch in relation to the original constitution. The constitution was written specifically to give me the power to participate in the control of my local community, not to be controlled by the courts. The modern constitution has become a source of tyranny in the hands of a leftist elite.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
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oilFactotum wrote:
The invasion of Japan would have cost 100's if thousands of American casualties and millions of Japanese.
Precisely. And not using every possible means of dealing with modern terrorist will also result in the lose of untold numbers of lives. Nuclear bombs, as evil as they were, were less evil than the alternatives. And water-boarding some asshole terrorist is less evil than the alternative of allowing their networks to persist. It is exactly the same kind of situation. Either you support efforts to defeat them even when the means is brutal and violates our closely held moral principles or you don't.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
The "America is evil" meme that you continually hype is nothing more that your rationalization for torture. Again proof that you are now a "leftist" and you have already lost.
Stan Shannon wrote:
And water-boarding some asshole terrorist is less evil than the alternative of allowing their networks to persist.
Except, of course, that not everyone we hold is a terrorist (or even knows anything of value), and torture is ineffective, and traditional (non-coercive) interrogation techniques are effective and that is what is needed to defeat the terrorists. Torture will never do it. The point of torture is torture and to extract false confessions - in that it is quite effective.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Either you support efforts to defeat them even when the means is brutal and violates our closely held moral principles or you don't.
Absolutely not! The brutal means you advocate will fail, have failed, and always will fail. History is all the proof you need. We can and will defeat them without violating our principles. Why you wish to do so is beyond me. Not only will you fail to defeat them, you will destroy us in the process - handing them the victory they could not obtain on their own. The only deep and fundamental threat that the terrorists pose to us is that we will adopt their methods, restrict our own freedoms, and compromise our core values. That is what you advocate, essentially making you a fellow traveler of the terrorists. It is thinking like yours that would hand the terrorists a victory they could never accomplish on their own.
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oilFactotum wrote:
you have no respect for the US Constitution
I respect the constitution as it was originally written, but there is, in fact, very little about the modern constitution that I respect. Including the part where the president is less empowered to interpret it than the supreme court is. The excutive branch is equal to the judicial branch in relation to the original constitution. The constitution was written specifically to give me the power to participate in the control of my local community, not to be controlled by the courts. The modern constitution has become a source of tyranny in the hands of a leftist elite.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
Stan Shannon wrote:
I respect the constitution as it was originally written,
Means absolutely nothing. You do not respect the constitution - to bad for you.
Stan Shannon wrote:
I respect. Including the part where the president is less empowered to interpret it than the supreme court is.
Oh man, that is a load of bullshit. Show me where in the constitution the president is given the power to interpret the constitution above that of the Supreme Court.
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Being all talk and no walk is typically considered a lack of manliness. Go ahead and impeach them for defending the nation, I have nothing to lose from that. If they are guilty they should be impeached, if they are not it will destroy the democrat party. Either way, I win.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
Stan Shannon wrote:
the democrat party
It's "Democratic Party", imbecile.
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove and evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree... yeah, makes perfect sense.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
I respect the constitution as it was originally written,
Means absolutely nothing. You do not respect the constitution - to bad for you.
Stan Shannon wrote:
I respect. Including the part where the president is less empowered to interpret it than the supreme court is.
Oh man, that is a load of bullshit. Show me where in the constitution the president is given the power to interpret the constitution above that of the Supreme Court.
oilFactotum wrote:
You do not respect the constitution - to bad for you.
Again, I respect the original intent of the founders and consider myself to be a traitor to what your evil ilk have turned it into.
oilFactotum wrote:
Show me where in the constitution the president is given the power to interpret the constitution above that of the Supreme Court.
If you had ever actually studied history rather than reading it off some Marxist blog, you would know this has always been a very controversial area of the law: Thomas Jefferson argues against exclusive judiciary construction of the Constitution; such exclusive power of constitutional interpretation would, according to Jefferson, undermine the principle of checks and balances-since it would allow the judiciary department to prescribe rules for the government of the others. If the judiciary has sole power of constitutional interpretation, then the Constitution "is a mere thing of wax in the hands of the judiciary, which they may twist and shape into any form they please." Jefferson instead recommends that each department be truly independent of the others and have the right to decide for itself the Constitution's meaning in cases submitted to its action-especially in those cases where it is to act ultimately and without appeal. [^] As with most things, I side with Jefferson and oppose Marshall. There is nothing in the constitution that actually gives the Supreme Court absolute authority to interpret the constitution. The only power they have to do so is derived exclusively from their own interpretations of that document. We are now witnessing why that was such a bad precident to follow.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
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The "America is evil" meme that you continually hype is nothing more that your rationalization for torture. Again proof that you are now a "leftist" and you have already lost.
Stan Shannon wrote:
And water-boarding some asshole terrorist is less evil than the alternative of allowing their networks to persist.
Except, of course, that not everyone we hold is a terrorist (or even knows anything of value), and torture is ineffective, and traditional (non-coercive) interrogation techniques are effective and that is what is needed to defeat the terrorists. Torture will never do it. The point of torture is torture and to extract false confessions - in that it is quite effective.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Either you support efforts to defeat them even when the means is brutal and violates our closely held moral principles or you don't.
Absolutely not! The brutal means you advocate will fail, have failed, and always will fail. History is all the proof you need. We can and will defeat them without violating our principles. Why you wish to do so is beyond me. Not only will you fail to defeat them, you will destroy us in the process - handing them the victory they could not obtain on their own. The only deep and fundamental threat that the terrorists pose to us is that we will adopt their methods, restrict our own freedoms, and compromise our core values. That is what you advocate, essentially making you a fellow traveler of the terrorists. It is thinking like yours that would hand the terrorists a victory they could never accomplish on their own.
oilFactotum wrote:
The "America is evil" meme that you continually hype is nothing more that your rationalization for torture. Again proof that you are now a "leftist" and you have already lost.
If our government is evil now, then it was even more so then. You cannot refute that. Dropping nuclear bombs on women and children just to make a point is no more a part of our national morality than is water boarding some asshole terrorists, yet we have done both.
oilFactotum wrote:
Except, of course, that not everyone we hold is a terrorist
And everyone we dropped bombs on in WwII were not Nazis'. So what?
oilFactotum wrote:
Torture will never do it. The point of torture is torture and to extract false confessions - in that it is quite effective.
According to the CIA they got useful information after only about 30 seconds of water boarding one of these guys.
oilFactotum wrote:
Absolutely not! The brutal means you advocate will fail, have failed, and always will fail. History is all the proof you need. We can and will defeat them without violating our principles. Why you wish to do so is beyond me. Not only will you fail to defeat them, you will destroy us in the process - handing them the victory they could not obtain on their own.
History shows precisely the opposite of that. We have never defeated evil by being anything other than brutal right back. We have never defeated an enemy by being nice to him.
oilFactotum wrote:
The only deep and fundamental threat that the terrorists pose to us is that we will adopt their methods, restrict our own freedoms, and compromise our core values. That is what you advocate, essentially making you a fellow traveler of the terrorists. It is thinking like yours that would hand the terrorists a victory they could never accomplish on their own.
No, they represent a real on-going threat to thousands of our contrymen. Is the threat to an indiviudal America that great? Of course not. But some of us are not comfortable risking the almost absolute certainty of further attacks even if our personnel risk is not that great. We want the government to deal with the threat as necessary. And doing that has not risked anything in our system of government. Except for the
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Stan Shannon wrote:
the democrat party
It's "Democratic Party", imbecile.
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove and evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree... yeah, makes perfect sense.
Than why are they called "democrats" rather than "democratics", moron.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
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oilFactotum wrote:
You do not respect the constitution - to bad for you.
Again, I respect the original intent of the founders and consider myself to be a traitor to what your evil ilk have turned it into.
oilFactotum wrote:
Show me where in the constitution the president is given the power to interpret the constitution above that of the Supreme Court.
If you had ever actually studied history rather than reading it off some Marxist blog, you would know this has always been a very controversial area of the law: Thomas Jefferson argues against exclusive judiciary construction of the Constitution; such exclusive power of constitutional interpretation would, according to Jefferson, undermine the principle of checks and balances-since it would allow the judiciary department to prescribe rules for the government of the others. If the judiciary has sole power of constitutional interpretation, then the Constitution "is a mere thing of wax in the hands of the judiciary, which they may twist and shape into any form they please." Jefferson instead recommends that each department be truly independent of the others and have the right to decide for itself the Constitution's meaning in cases submitted to its action-especially in those cases where it is to act ultimately and without appeal. [^] As with most things, I side with Jefferson and oppose Marshall. There is nothing in the constitution that actually gives the Supreme Court absolute authority to interpret the constitution. The only power they have to do so is derived exclusively from their own interpretations of that document. We are now witnessing why that was such a bad precident to follow.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
Ah, so your "I respect the constitution as it was originally written" is just more BS. You can't show me where the constitution gives the president the authority to ignore the supreme court and pick and chose which parts of the constitution he will obey because it isn't there. All you have is a competing interpretation that was not accepted.