The US as a banana republic
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BoneSoft wrote:
First off you're wrong. Replace "WMD's" with "atomic weapons" and you're correct.
I'm curious about your meaning. If atomic weapons are not WMD's then nothing is.
No they are. What's incorrect is that the US is the only country to ever use WMDs. Saddam & his mustard gas comes to mind, but I'm sure there are other instance. Actually now that I think of it, the Japanese used biological weapons in WWII, and I know some others have as well. So it would be correct to say that the US is the only country to use atomic weapons, but not WMDs.
Try code model generation tools at BoneSoft.com.
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I know what it means and it does not mean that I am the House of Representatives.
They speak for you. If they are not prosecuting your agenda, that means you lose.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
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I agree, if it actually is illegal, I don't think it should be. Sensory deprivation does nothing but make people more eager to engage and increases suggestibility. Sleep deprivation won't do them any harm, but it's real incentive to cooperate. Same with forced stress positions.
Try code model generation tools at BoneSoft.com.
Precisely. The fact that some people get more bent out of shape by depriving someone of sleep than they do of mass murder tells you everything you need to know about them.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
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C'mon, take it like a real man. ;P
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|FoldWithUs! | sighistI know plenty of people that can vouch for my manhood... But what am I supposed to take? 'The US isn't a republic' is even more fantastical than the 'imperialism' crap argument. Anybody without a head wound and/or not in desperate need of medication can see through them.
Try code model generation tools at BoneSoft.com.
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oilFactotum wrote:
they are both illegal under US law as I stated
I've never heard of any law against them, which granted doesn't mean much, but sensory deprivation is done in every prison in the country every day. And sleep deprivation is on page 1 on the interrogation manual, sensory deprivation is on the cover. You may be right, and if so I'd like to know, but I have a hard time believing it. But I certainly wouldn't consider them torture, they're not harmed, have no permanent effects, and there's no chance of them dieing from it. If you want information from bad guys, and smacking them around isn't OK, what other option do you have? You do want information from bad guys don't you?
oilFactotum wrote:
BoneSoft wrote: Anybody with a child under 2 is subjected to that, constantly. No, they aren't. And like I said before, I can't believe you actually believe that.
Spend 3 - 4 hours in the dark every night with a baby on your shoulder. 4 hours of sleep every single day for months on end is pretty serious sleep deprivation. I think I'd rather be forced to stay awake for 3 or 4 days in a small empty room while being asked the same questions over and over again than go through that again. That would probably be healthier too.
Try code model generation tools at BoneSoft.com.
Aww, some little jackass is voting all my posts a 1. Gee, I wonder who that could be... :~
Try code model generation tools at BoneSoft.com.
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I know plenty of people that can vouch for my manhood... But what am I supposed to take? 'The US isn't a republic' is even more fantastical than the 'imperialism' crap argument. Anybody without a head wound and/or not in desperate need of medication can see through them.
Try code model generation tools at BoneSoft.com.
BoneSoft wrote:
'The US isn't a republic' is even more fantastical than the 'imperialism' crap argument.
That's why I said "take it like a man" - no manhood vouchers will help you here. Shrug it off or give a clever comeback. C'mon, I know you can do ;)
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|FoldWithUs! | sighist -
BoneSoft wrote:
Ask virtually any Japanese about that and they'll tell you that it was justified and it almost certainly saved lives.
You've got to be kidding me. Saved lives, maybe, but we dropped those bombs on civilian targets. The nation of Japan has been in a state of cultural mourning for the victims of the attack ever since it happened.
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
The nation of Japan has been in a state of cultural mourning for the victims of the attack ever since it happened.
Big fucking deal, it turned them into a nation of peace loving folk. And, just an fyi, there's still families that mourn for the losses at Pearl Harbor.
Mike The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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They speak for you. If they are not prosecuting your agenda, that means you lose.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
Stan Shannon wrote:
that means you lose.
And what's your point? If I lose, so do you. Your image of the president as a man above the law, limited by nothing other than a congress's willingness (or unwillingness) to impeach him is a dangerous president - to you as well as me. He would be a president not unlike Al Capone in the 20's. If you really believe your own retoric about "leftists" then you should be terrified by the precedents being made by Bush. Your support of all of Bush's antics will only hasten the socialist utopia you so fear.
Stan Shannon wrote:
your agenda
My agenda? You really believe the rule of law is a partisan political agenda?
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oilFactotum wrote:
they are both illegal under US law as I stated
I've never heard of any law against them, which granted doesn't mean much, but sensory deprivation is done in every prison in the country every day. And sleep deprivation is on page 1 on the interrogation manual, sensory deprivation is on the cover. You may be right, and if so I'd like to know, but I have a hard time believing it. But I certainly wouldn't consider them torture, they're not harmed, have no permanent effects, and there's no chance of them dieing from it. If you want information from bad guys, and smacking them around isn't OK, what other option do you have? You do want information from bad guys don't you?
oilFactotum wrote:
BoneSoft wrote: Anybody with a child under 2 is subjected to that, constantly. No, they aren't. And like I said before, I can't believe you actually believe that.
Spend 3 - 4 hours in the dark every night with a baby on your shoulder. 4 hours of sleep every single day for months on end is pretty serious sleep deprivation. I think I'd rather be forced to stay awake for 3 or 4 days in a small empty room while being asked the same questions over and over again than go through that again. That would probably be healthier too.
Try code model generation tools at BoneSoft.com.
I am curious about what you are doing in this thread. Last month you agreed that torture was illegal and ineffective. But now you think that these extreme coercive measures are how we should gather intelligence. What's the deal? http://www.codeproject.com/script/Forums/View.aspx?fid=2605&msg=2298328[^]
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Stan Shannon wrote:
that means you lose.
And what's your point? If I lose, so do you. Your image of the president as a man above the law, limited by nothing other than a congress's willingness (or unwillingness) to impeach him is a dangerous president - to you as well as me. He would be a president not unlike Al Capone in the 20's. If you really believe your own retoric about "leftists" then you should be terrified by the precedents being made by Bush. Your support of all of Bush's antics will only hasten the socialist utopia you so fear.
Stan Shannon wrote:
your agenda
My agenda? You really believe the rule of law is a partisan political agenda?
oilFactotum wrote:
If I lose, so do you. Your image of the president as a man above the law, limited by nothing other than a congress's willingness (or unwillingness) to impeach him is a dangerous president - to you as well as me. He would be a president not unlike Al Capone in the 20's. If you really believe your own retoric about "leftists" then you should be terrified by the precedents being made by Bush. Your support of all of Bush's antics will only hasten the socialist utopia you so fear.
If our government is as badly broken as you must believe it to be to think as you do about Bush than he is precisely the kind of person I want to have running things. Why would I want to see that kind of flawed power handed over to the Marxist left as represented by Clinton, Obama or Edwards? For my part, I don't believe anything is broken at all. For the most part, things are working precisely as they should. A good leader knows when to push the envelope in order to fulfill his constitutional responsibilities - which includes far more than an obsequious subservience to every possible interepretation of the US legal code. The threat we face from radical Islam is far worse than anything Bush and company have done even if everthing you say is completely valid. If he as crossed lines he didn't need to, than he should be punished. But that does not mean that he was wrong.
oilFactotum wrote:
You really believe the rule of law is a partisan political agenda?
You're damned right I do.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
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http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2007/12/this-is-a-banan.html[^] "We live in a country where the government can detain indefinitely, torture in secret, and then secretly destroy the tapes of torture sessions to protect its own staff"
oilFactotum wrote:
"We live in a country where the government can detain indefinitely, torture in secret, and then secretly destroy the tapes of torture sessions to protect its own staff"
No, we live in a country where dumbass liberals can spew out their ignorance with wild abandon. In what country and what war have non-uniformed, enemy combatants taken prisoner on a battle field been given jury trials? We had several hundred thousand German soldiers as prisoners during WWII and only a handful got trials. And most of those were hanged. Is that the kind of trial they are looking for? And I thought Scooter Libby got into all sorts of hot water with the left for not remembering who publicized a CIA employee's name. And now these same people want videos of interrogations that may contain classified material? Does the CIA have a video lending library?
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oilFactotum wrote:
If I lose, so do you. Your image of the president as a man above the law, limited by nothing other than a congress's willingness (or unwillingness) to impeach him is a dangerous president - to you as well as me. He would be a president not unlike Al Capone in the 20's. If you really believe your own retoric about "leftists" then you should be terrified by the precedents being made by Bush. Your support of all of Bush's antics will only hasten the socialist utopia you so fear.
If our government is as badly broken as you must believe it to be to think as you do about Bush than he is precisely the kind of person I want to have running things. Why would I want to see that kind of flawed power handed over to the Marxist left as represented by Clinton, Obama or Edwards? For my part, I don't believe anything is broken at all. For the most part, things are working precisely as they should. A good leader knows when to push the envelope in order to fulfill his constitutional responsibilities - which includes far more than an obsequious subservience to every possible interepretation of the US legal code. The threat we face from radical Islam is far worse than anything Bush and company have done even if everthing you say is completely valid. If he as crossed lines he didn't need to, than he should be punished. But that does not mean that he was wrong.
oilFactotum wrote:
You really believe the rule of law is a partisan political agenda?
You're damned right I do.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Bush than he is precisely the kind of person I want to have running things.
But he's not going to be for very much longer and Clinton, Obama or Edwards may very well be the next president. So, your support and agreement that the president should be above the law, and break his oath to protect the constitution, will lead to the realization of you fear of a socialist distopia. You are actively participating in the destruction of everything you claim to believe in.
Stan Shannon wrote:
threat we face from radical Islam is far worse than anything Bush and company have done even if everthing you say is completely valid.
The only real and fundamental threat we face from radical Islam is that we will turn away from our constitution and our way of life and embrace the barbarism of those that oppose us. You are a disheartening example of that barbarism.
Stan Shannon wrote:
as crossed lines he didn't need to, than he should be punished. But that does not mean that he was wrong.
Well yes, that is exactly what it means. If he crossed the line, he is wrong.
Stan Shannon wrote:
You're damned right I do.
Then you clearly have no respect for the constitution or anything this country has ever stood for. I pity you.X|
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Stan Shannon wrote:
Bush than he is precisely the kind of person I want to have running things.
But he's not going to be for very much longer and Clinton, Obama or Edwards may very well be the next president. So, your support and agreement that the president should be above the law, and break his oath to protect the constitution, will lead to the realization of you fear of a socialist distopia. You are actively participating in the destruction of everything you claim to believe in.
Stan Shannon wrote:
threat we face from radical Islam is far worse than anything Bush and company have done even if everthing you say is completely valid.
The only real and fundamental threat we face from radical Islam is that we will turn away from our constitution and our way of life and embrace the barbarism of those that oppose us. You are a disheartening example of that barbarism.
Stan Shannon wrote:
as crossed lines he didn't need to, than he should be punished. But that does not mean that he was wrong.
Well yes, that is exactly what it means. If he crossed the line, he is wrong.
Stan Shannon wrote:
You're damned right I do.
Then you clearly have no respect for the constitution or anything this country has ever stood for. I pity you.X|
oilFactotum wrote:
Then you clearly have no respect for the constitution or anything this country has ever stood for
I sure as hell have no respect for any constitution someone like you would defend.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
Bush than he is precisely the kind of person I want to have running things.
But he's not going to be for very much longer and Clinton, Obama or Edwards may very well be the next president. So, your support and agreement that the president should be above the law, and break his oath to protect the constitution, will lead to the realization of you fear of a socialist distopia. You are actively participating in the destruction of everything you claim to believe in.
Stan Shannon wrote:
threat we face from radical Islam is far worse than anything Bush and company have done even if everthing you say is completely valid.
The only real and fundamental threat we face from radical Islam is that we will turn away from our constitution and our way of life and embrace the barbarism of those that oppose us. You are a disheartening example of that barbarism.
Stan Shannon wrote:
as crossed lines he didn't need to, than he should be punished. But that does not mean that he was wrong.
Well yes, that is exactly what it means. If he crossed the line, he is wrong.
Stan Shannon wrote:
You're damned right I do.
Then you clearly have no respect for the constitution or anything this country has ever stood for. I pity you.X|
oilFactotum wrote:
The only real and fundamental threat we face from radical Islam is that we will turn away from our constitution and our way of life and embrace the barbarism of those that oppose us. You are a disheartening example of that barbarism.
Yet isn't it odd that meeting our enemies on their own terms during WWII, and going far beyond their own brutality did not result in us becoming what they were, it merely resulted in us defeating them. These current events were an opportunity for the left to show that it had out grown the teason of the Vietnam generation of leftists and unite in a great national effort to defeat a truly evil and determined foe. You guys instead opted to turn on your own country, to make it the source of evil. Well, fine. We all know where we stand now.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
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oilFactotum wrote:
The only real and fundamental threat we face from radical Islam is that we will turn away from our constitution and our way of life and embrace the barbarism of those that oppose us. You are a disheartening example of that barbarism.
Yet isn't it odd that meeting our enemies on their own terms during WWII, and going far beyond their own brutality did not result in us becoming what they were, it merely resulted in us defeating them. These current events were an opportunity for the left to show that it had out grown the teason of the Vietnam generation of leftists and unite in a great national effort to defeat a truly evil and determined foe. You guys instead opted to turn on your own country, to make it the source of evil. Well, fine. We all know where we stand now.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Well, fine. We all know where we stand now.
We do. You embrace evil, I oppose it.
Stan Shannon wrote:
and going far beyond their own brutality
Oh yeah, I forgot about all those death camps that we built in the US. Did we use Zyklon-B or something else? Did we gas 6 or 8 million, I forget. Silly me. How many civilians did we execute in France after we occupied it? What was the name of those death marches of German and Japanese prisoners where 25% of the prisoners died before reaching a prison camp? Do you have any of those pictures of American soldiers beheading unarmed prisoners? Oh wait - None of that happened!
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oilFactotum wrote:
Then you clearly have no respect for the constitution or anything this country has ever stood for
I sure as hell have no respect for any constitution someone like you would defend.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
Stan Shannon wrote:
I sure as hell have no respect for any constitution someone like you would defend.
That would be the US Constitution. Thanks for clearing that up.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
I sure as hell have no respect for any constitution someone like you would defend.
That would be the US Constitution. Thanks for clearing that up.
oilFactotum wrote:
That would be the US Constitution. Thanks for clearing that up.
No, that would be what used to be the US constitution before people such as yourself turned it into the Marxist monstrosity that it is today.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
Well, fine. We all know where we stand now.
We do. You embrace evil, I oppose it.
Stan Shannon wrote:
and going far beyond their own brutality
Oh yeah, I forgot about all those death camps that we built in the US. Did we use Zyklon-B or something else? Did we gas 6 or 8 million, I forget. Silly me. How many civilians did we execute in France after we occupied it? What was the name of those death marches of German and Japanese prisoners where 25% of the prisoners died before reaching a prison camp? Do you have any of those pictures of American soldiers beheading unarmed prisoners? Oh wait - None of that happened!
oilFactotum wrote:
You embrace evil
I do indeed when it is necessary to defeat evil. We Americans have always done so. We have always been just as fanatical and violent and merciless as our enemies when we needed to be. But then, we have always had faith that our institutions were resilient enough to return to normal when the threat had past - before people like you came along, that is.
oilFactotum wrote:
I oppose it.
You are evil in its purest form.
oilFactotum wrote:
Oh yeah, I forgot about all those death camps that we built in the US. Did we use Zyklon-B or something else? Did we gas 6 or 8 million, I forget. Silly me. How many civilians did we execute in France after we occupied it? What was the name of those death marches of German and Japanese prisoners where 25% of the prisoners died before reaching a prison camp? Do you have any of those pictures of American soldiers beheading unarmed prisoners? Oh wait - None of that happened!
And how many tons of high explosives did either Germany or Japan drop on American cities? How many American women and children were killed in German or Japanese fire bombing raids? How many Americans were incenerated by nuclear bombs? We won WWII precisely because we were able to inflict far more brutality upon our enemies than they upon us. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were destroyed for no other tactical reason beyond proving to the Japanese government what we were capable of. We were capable of just as much brutality and evil in defense of our principles as they were in defense of theirs - that is why they surrendered. That is the only way you can defeat evil. Evil will never yield to goodness alone.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
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oilFactotum wrote:
You embrace evil
I do indeed when it is necessary to defeat evil. We Americans have always done so. We have always been just as fanatical and violent and merciless as our enemies when we needed to be. But then, we have always had faith that our institutions were resilient enough to return to normal when the threat had past - before people like you came along, that is.
oilFactotum wrote:
I oppose it.
You are evil in its purest form.
oilFactotum wrote:
Oh yeah, I forgot about all those death camps that we built in the US. Did we use Zyklon-B or something else? Did we gas 6 or 8 million, I forget. Silly me. How many civilians did we execute in France after we occupied it? What was the name of those death marches of German and Japanese prisoners where 25% of the prisoners died before reaching a prison camp? Do you have any of those pictures of American soldiers beheading unarmed prisoners? Oh wait - None of that happened!
And how many tons of high explosives did either Germany or Japan drop on American cities? How many American women and children were killed in German or Japanese fire bombing raids? How many Americans were incenerated by nuclear bombs? We won WWII precisely because we were able to inflict far more brutality upon our enemies than they upon us. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were destroyed for no other tactical reason beyond proving to the Japanese government what we were capable of. We were capable of just as much brutality and evil in defense of our principles as they were in defense of theirs - that is why they surrendered. That is the only way you can defeat evil. Evil will never yield to goodness alone.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
Stan Shannon wrote:
I do indeed when it is necessary to defeat evil.
In our history it has never been.
Stan Shannon wrote:
We Americans have always done so.
Utterly false. You say that only to excuse your hate-filled desires.
Stan Shannon wrote:
You are evil in its purest form.
:laugh:
Stan Shannon wrote:
And how many tons of high explosives did either Germany or Japan drop on American cities?
England, China, Poland, Soviet Union to name just a few.
Stan Shannon wrote:
How many American women and children
England, China, Poland, Soviet Union to name just a few. It is your argument that the murder of 6 millions jews is exactly the same as the strategic bombing of Germany and Japan. That's the kind of moral equivalence that would be expected from one of your "leftists". That makes you a leftist.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Hiroshima and Nagasaki were destroyed for no other tactical reason beyond proving to the Japanese government what we were capable of.
Don't be a moron. The invasion of Japan would have cost 100's if thousands of American casualties and millions of Japanese. Your entire premise of America as the Evil Empire all to support an idiot president who thinks he should be emperor. As you define it you are a "leftist" of the worst kind.But that does make sense. Your entire belief centers around embracing all that you oppose. Need to fight leftists? You become a leftist. Even if you win, you lose. You defeat leftist by becoming a leftist. When the leftists are defeated the only ones who will be remain will be - leftists!
modified on Saturday, December 08, 2007 8:44:32 AM
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oilFactotum wrote:
That would be the US Constitution. Thanks for clearing that up.
No, that would be what used to be the US constitution before people such as yourself turned it into the Marxist monstrosity that it is today.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
Again, I thank you for being complete clear on this matter - you have no respect for the US Constitution.