guilty until proven innocent
-
martin_hughes wrote:
What is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?
which species? what is the humidity? air pressure and time and volume of last meal? ;P http://www.style.org/unladenswallow/[^]
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
El Corazon wrote:
which species? what is the humidity? air pressure and time and volume of last meal? ;P
The correct counter question is African or European?.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
-
Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
but they do make good television
This reminds me of a Simpson episode --the one when Homer finds an alien, who turned out to be Mr. Burns. When X File agent Scully is questioning Homer, they use a polygraph, and the sequence is something like this: [Scully] - This is a polygraph, it will tell us whether you are lying or not. Do you understand? [Homer] - Yes. [*The polygraph explodes*] :laugh::laugh::laugh:
Hope is the negation of reality - Raistlin Majere
I love it-this cheered me up a little.
-
declassified wrote:
I was under the impression that it would be 'somewhat' reliable but man was I in for a surprise.
They are only reliable under specific and highly controlled and ultimately non-repeatable circumstances. Ultimately it is impossible to know 100% reliably that you tell a lie or the truth. A polygraph attempts to make a decision based on unconscious behaviors that have been associated with people who deliberately lie (but are not serial liars). A) nerveousness, almost always indicates lying, or just nerveousness, but in the case of a polygraph... lying except when it is nerveousness (you get the picture). B) a change in breathing rhythm, a person who has central apnea will almost always fail a polygraph if the question period is long enough, because apnea events occur even while awake. The repitition of the questions will always produce boredom and relaxation, and increase the likelihood of an apnea event. C) Serial liars. These are the ones you really want to catch, are the one thing that a polygraph cannot catch. They are so accustomed to lying that there is no longer the unconscious autonomic behaviors associated with lying tha thte polygraph needs to catch. D) the questions matter, not just the written questions but what they mean to each person taking the test.... For instance, if you are asked if you ever stole something and you have a momentary flash-back to kindergarten when you stole a toy from a girl and broke it. There is that pang of guilt and then you answer "no." boom, you are lying you know you are lying per se, but it really has nothing to do with the question asked. Certainly you committed no crime, you will never get in trouble for that incident, but the fact that you remembered it just then and then answered contrary means you equated the incident with the word steal and then answered contrary. A skilled polygrapher has overlapping questions, and asks you to explain a few things, and must adapt the test as they are going through. You cannot do polygraphs by rote, which few businesses realize when they sign up for commercial polygraph services. So, in the end you have a polygraph test which is worth just slightly more than the paper it is written on. A good polygrapher would go back to the questions you failed and ask you about them, not tell you that you failed the question. Questions can be horribly misleading because the English language is open to interpretation, and we as a people are open to suggestion. Any
El Corazon wrote:
Questions can be horribly misleading because the English language is open to interpretation
I told the polygrapher before the test started that one of the questions was worded very wierd and that I didn't know how to answer. The question: "Are you now withholding the full extent of all drug use or sales?" [me] "I dont know how to answer that - I know I haven't used or sold drugs - should I say 'yes' or 'no'?" [him] You should tell the truth [me] I know but what I am saying is that I dont know what 'yes' or 'no' means to that question - can you replace the word 'withholding' with 'divulging' so that I can answer it confidently? [him] "no, 80,000 people have answered that question before you - suddenly you don't know what it means?" [me] thats right - i get accused all of the time for misinterpreting what people are saying So on the polygraph I had to convince myself to answer "no" - even though my automatic response is "yes". Then wouldn't you know - I answered "yes" once on accident. He practically flipped over in his chair like he had just captured osama bin laden. "I knew it" he said. You failed. A part of me still feels like he is just messing with me and that I really passed - because I did tell the truth. My question is "when I said yes on accident did it register as deceptive?"
-
El Corazon wrote:
Questions can be horribly misleading because the English language is open to interpretation
I told the polygrapher before the test started that one of the questions was worded very wierd and that I didn't know how to answer. The question: "Are you now withholding the full extent of all drug use or sales?" [me] "I dont know how to answer that - I know I haven't used or sold drugs - should I say 'yes' or 'no'?" [him] You should tell the truth [me] I know but what I am saying is that I dont know what 'yes' or 'no' means to that question - can you replace the word 'withholding' with 'divulging' so that I can answer it confidently? [him] "no, 80,000 people have answered that question before you - suddenly you don't know what it means?" [me] thats right - i get accused all of the time for misinterpreting what people are saying So on the polygraph I had to convince myself to answer "no" - even though my automatic response is "yes". Then wouldn't you know - I answered "yes" once on accident. He practically flipped over in his chair like he had just captured osama bin laden. "I knew it" he said. You failed. A part of me still feels like he is just messing with me and that I really passed - because I did tell the truth. My question is "when I said yes on accident did it register as deceptive?"
declassified wrote:
My question is "when I said yes on accident did it register as deceptive?"
No, any natural reaction will register as truth, any non-natural or hesitant answer will register as a lie. If the lie is accidental it will not register as a lie, it will register as truth. If you believe the lie, subconsciously convinced yourself of it, it will register as true.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
-
So I just had my first polygraph. I must admit that I was under the impression that it would be 'somewhat' reliable but man was I in for a surprise. It kept saying I was lying about my answer when I kept telling the truth! Obviously no one believed me. The worst part is that I kept saying I didn't do something and the polygraph said I did. How are you supposed to prove that you didn't do something? At least if it was a question about whether I did something I could go back and prove it somehow. The polygrapher kept getting mad at me to because he was telling me I failed on a certain question and I cracked a smile (I thought he was just messing with me to get me to 'confess' something). Even though polygraphs aren't supposed to be 100% effective I think the "general belief" is that they are. Try to tell someone that you failed the polygraph and you were telling the truth - see how many people believe you. I guess I'm guilty until proven innocent......:mad:
declassified wrote:
I guess I'm guilty until proven innocent
Have you ever read the book 'The innocent man'? It tells the true story of a man back in the 80's accused of crimes he didnt commit. But he was considdered guilty until proven innocent. Im reading it at the moment... good book
"There are three sides to every story. Yours, mine and the truth" ~ unknown
-
So I just had my first polygraph. I must admit that I was under the impression that it would be 'somewhat' reliable but man was I in for a surprise. It kept saying I was lying about my answer when I kept telling the truth! Obviously no one believed me. The worst part is that I kept saying I didn't do something and the polygraph said I did. How are you supposed to prove that you didn't do something? At least if it was a question about whether I did something I could go back and prove it somehow. The polygrapher kept getting mad at me to because he was telling me I failed on a certain question and I cracked a smile (I thought he was just messing with me to get me to 'confess' something). Even though polygraphs aren't supposed to be 100% effective I think the "general belief" is that they are. Try to tell someone that you failed the polygraph and you were telling the truth - see how many people believe you. I guess I'm guilty until proven innocent......:mad:
-
So I just had my first polygraph. I must admit that I was under the impression that it would be 'somewhat' reliable but man was I in for a surprise. It kept saying I was lying about my answer when I kept telling the truth! Obviously no one believed me. The worst part is that I kept saying I didn't do something and the polygraph said I did. How are you supposed to prove that you didn't do something? At least if it was a question about whether I did something I could go back and prove it somehow. The polygrapher kept getting mad at me to because he was telling me I failed on a certain question and I cracked a smile (I thought he was just messing with me to get me to 'confess' something). Even though polygraphs aren't supposed to be 100% effective I think the "general belief" is that they are. Try to tell someone that you failed the polygraph and you were telling the truth - see how many people believe you. I guess I'm guilty until proven innocent......:mad:
You should become a better liar :) (hehe just kidding)
xacc.ide
IronScheme a R5RS-compliant Scheme on the DLR
The rule of three: "The first time you notice something that might repeat, don't generalize it. The second time the situation occurs, develop in a similar fashion -- possibly even copy/paste -- but don't generalize yet. On the third time, look to generalize the approach." -
So I just had my first polygraph. I must admit that I was under the impression that it would be 'somewhat' reliable but man was I in for a surprise. It kept saying I was lying about my answer when I kept telling the truth! Obviously no one believed me. The worst part is that I kept saying I didn't do something and the polygraph said I did. How are you supposed to prove that you didn't do something? At least if it was a question about whether I did something I could go back and prove it somehow. The polygrapher kept getting mad at me to because he was telling me I failed on a certain question and I cracked a smile (I thought he was just messing with me to get me to 'confess' something). Even though polygraphs aren't supposed to be 100% effective I think the "general belief" is that they are. Try to tell someone that you failed the polygraph and you were telling the truth - see how many people believe you. I guess I'm guilty until proven innocent......:mad:
The examiners know that polygraphs can be fooled. If this is for a security clearance, its SOP to say you're lying about something even if the results show truthful. I've never known anyone to "pass" the first time. Actually, people passed the first time before 9/11, but never on the first try after. My previous job required polys of all employees in the group (~60) so I have a decent size sample. Don't worry about it. Even though the examiner said you were lying, the report may come back "pass" Judy
-
So I just had my first polygraph. I must admit that I was under the impression that it would be 'somewhat' reliable but man was I in for a surprise. It kept saying I was lying about my answer when I kept telling the truth! Obviously no one believed me. The worst part is that I kept saying I didn't do something and the polygraph said I did. How are you supposed to prove that you didn't do something? At least if it was a question about whether I did something I could go back and prove it somehow. The polygrapher kept getting mad at me to because he was telling me I failed on a certain question and I cracked a smile (I thought he was just messing with me to get me to 'confess' something). Even though polygraphs aren't supposed to be 100% effective I think the "general belief" is that they are. Try to tell someone that you failed the polygraph and you were telling the truth - see how many people believe you. I guess I'm guilty until proven innocent......:mad:
For the record, countless careers have been ruined by polygraphs, and yet no spy has ever been caught by one. Agencies who continue use it are either incompetent, unethical, or both.
-
El Corazon wrote:
which species? what is the humidity? air pressure and time and volume of last meal? ;P
The correct counter question is African or European?.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
Michael Martin wrote:
The correct counter question is African or European?.
Actually, since there are more species now than were known in the time of King Arthur and the Knights who say Nee, we have a few more to choose from including the cave swallow of south america and north america which can change the answer drastically. ;P The south american variety has been trained for more than bringing coconuts which has become mundain and unuseful since the days of King Arthur, now we train them to bring babies, cell phones and lost keys, as well as carrying various information packets in microdots attached to their left toe. This allows for faster and free flight. Although the south american variety has been known to stop for snacks of habanero whenever they fly over the yukitan area. All in all very useful birds, as long as you keep them away from the sauce. ;P ;P
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)