What's the hardest form of programming... [modified]
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I'd be interested to get opinions on this one... My call would be Game programming. I really don't know how the professional game programmers do it... DirectX in C++ is just hard (maybe its just me). Games also incorporate things like AI which in itself is a hard topic. C# and XNA have made it alot easier. But I still think Game programming wins. Any other ideas?
modified on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 10:04:58 PM
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I'd be interested to get opinions on this one... My call would be Game programming. I really don't know how the professional game programmers do it... DirectX in C++ is just hard (maybe its just me). Games also incorporate things like AI which in itself is a hard topic. C# and XNA have made it alot easier. But I still think Game programming wins. Any other ideas?
modified on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 10:04:58 PM
... programming that completely satisfies the user requirements. Way harder than game programming.
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
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:-D
If the Lord God Almighty had consulted me before embarking upon the Creation, I would have recommended something simpler. -- Alfonso the Wise, 13th Century King of Castile.
nah, pre-punched card machines that were 'programed' by rewiring plugboards would be worse.
Otherwise [Microsoft is] toast in the long term no matter how much money they've got. They would be already if the Linux community didn't have it's head so firmly up it's own command line buffer that it looks like taking 15 years to find the desktop. -- Matthew Faithfull
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... programming that completely satisfies the user requirements. Way harder than game programming.
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
Sure, also because software developerds usually don't agree with users about their requirements :-D
If the Lord God Almighty had consulted me before embarking upon the Creation, I would have recommended something simpler. -- Alfonso the Wise, 13th Century King of Castile.
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I'd be interested to get opinions on this one... My call would be Game programming. I really don't know how the professional game programmers do it... DirectX in C++ is just hard (maybe its just me). Games also incorporate things like AI which in itself is a hard topic. C# and XNA have made it alot easier. But I still think Game programming wins. Any other ideas?
modified on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 10:04:58 PM
A game? lol, cause if the game crashes lives could be lost. :rolleyes: How about control systems on a jet or perhaps the space shuttle? You might approach your developement a bit different if you knew death occurred when that bit of code "that'll never happen" executes. How about the code running the rovers up on Mars that are still ticking years after their expiration data -- or any other autonomous device.
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Hey , Im a Game Programmer , and I started out about five years ago doing it in C , back then DirecX wasn't as dimonant as it is now , and there wasn't much support for it so we had to write "wrappers" for routines like put_pixel(...) and do triple buffering manually using our own managed memory pools with read/write locks and all (just like DirectX does) , and Im proud to say that DirectX in C++ is MUCH easier than anything else I've come across - besides Applet Game "Programming" using Java. Having worked on so many different forms of application , and so many differeng areas of Computer Programming , I would have to agree with you - Game Programming is BY FAR the most complex area since , you need to have a firm grip on , not only the operating system, but its , Graphical Operation API, its GUI API , its Console Subsystem, its File System API - basically a Game is a scaled-down version of a Full Blown Operating System , since it does Graphical manipulation based on User input as well as , processing logic and File Manipulation - all while still trying to look great on screen. I can remember one time, when we actually wrote a Game that could be run as the System Shell , just so we could hog more resources lol , it worked out great , but it became a hobby project after we realised that users wouldn't know how to use it properly , but - all in all , every game that exists is a tiny operating system , and THAT is why Game Programming is so hard - you have to do the work of an Operating system WHILE trying to squeeze every last clock cycle out of the machine in order to make it look - and feel - great.
The tears shed in vain and the hatred and pain will be nothing but dust at the end of the day
Max_Power_Up wrote:
every game that exists is a tiny operating system , and THAT is why Game Programming is so hard - you have to do the work of an Operating system WHILE trying to squeeze every last clock cycle out of the machine in order to make it look - and feel - great
In that case, you've just made the case for Operating System development being the hardest because games programmers, in my experience, don't pay enough attention to the actual computer and I've had so many games crash my PC whereas the REAL operating system would just continue unphased. Now, that is hard to get all that diverse range of hardware to play nice with pretty much what ever software needs to get put on top of it. When I used to buy games for the PC (I eventually gave up and bought an XBox and a WII) there was always a list of very limited hardware that the game actually supported. Imagine the flak Microsoft would get if they did that!
Upcoming FREE developer events: * Developer Day Scotland My website | blog
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A game? lol, cause if the game crashes lives could be lost. :rolleyes: How about control systems on a jet or perhaps the space shuttle? You might approach your developement a bit different if you knew death occurred when that bit of code "that'll never happen" executes. How about the code running the rovers up on Mars that are still ticking years after their expiration data -- or any other autonomous device.
Robert Surtees wrote:
A game? lol, cause if the game crashes lives could be lost.
Absolutely, I wouldn't like a games programmer to develope the systems for my local nuclear power station. The interface might look pretty, but it would crash too frequently.
Upcoming FREE developer events: * Developer Day Scotland My website | blog
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Robert Surtees wrote:
A game? lol, cause if the game crashes lives could be lost.
Absolutely, I wouldn't like a games programmer to develope the systems for my local nuclear power station. The interface might look pretty, but it would crash too frequently.
Upcoming FREE developer events: * Developer Day Scotland My website | blog
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
I wouldn't like a games programmer to develope the systems for my local nuclear power station
There'd be too much of a temptation for them to populate the levels with all sorts of nasties and the health and safety guys get a bit uppity about this type of thing. The paperwork's a killer.
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
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I'd be interested to get opinions on this one... My call would be Game programming. I really don't know how the professional game programmers do it... DirectX in C++ is just hard (maybe its just me). Games also incorporate things like AI which in itself is a hard topic. C# and XNA have made it alot easier. But I still think Game programming wins. Any other ideas?
modified on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 10:04:58 PM
Functional programming[^] has always been my kryptonite. I still have nightmares about a project I had to do in Miranda. Oh the madness!
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Max_Power_Up wrote:
every game that exists is a tiny operating system , and THAT is why Game Programming is so hard - you have to do the work of an Operating system WHILE trying to squeeze every last clock cycle out of the machine in order to make it look - and feel - great
In that case, you've just made the case for Operating System development being the hardest because games programmers, in my experience, don't pay enough attention to the actual computer and I've had so many games crash my PC whereas the REAL operating system would just continue unphased. Now, that is hard to get all that diverse range of hardware to play nice with pretty much what ever software needs to get put on top of it. When I used to buy games for the PC (I eventually gave up and bought an XBox and a WII) there was always a list of very limited hardware that the game actually supported. Imagine the flak Microsoft would get if they did that!
Upcoming FREE developer events: * Developer Day Scotland My website | blog
Well , you've missed out on two very important aspects here - 1) I've never seen an Exciting operating system. Operating systems - although they perform a large amount of work in the background , never have to try really hard to stimulate the user into doing something - sure , a MessageBox can have a really exciting message , but , when was the last time you clicked on one of those because you actually WANTED to? The operating system is just sitting there WAITING to be used , while a game has to actively DEMAND participation while simultaneously making it fun and exciting for the user. 2) Operating systems are built by much larger teams and take several times longer to get a version shipping - speaking of which - games only have ONE SHOT. If a game is released and its first version is no good , you can bet that nobody is going to buy "Buggy Game - Beta Release(stable)" , whereas operating systems have the luxury of knowing that they have a few years to get everything working - did you think Windows was just thought up three months ago , Kernel and all - and plug and play from the word "go" ? No , operating system designers have years and years to perfect their product , whereas Game Programmers typically have a little over eighteen months to build a virtual world that entices and excites the user into wanting to use the product. Furthermore, typical Game Design teams have , on average, less than twenty people on board who have to do all the work , how many employees does Microsoft have? How many thousands of programmers have contributed to the Linux Operating System to make it as robust and reliable as it is today? When you think about the sheer workload and the intensive requirements that Game Programming demands of its programmers , I think you can begin to see why its the hardest form of programming around ... PS - when was the last time you saw somebody trying to plug in a PC Tablet as an input device to DOOM3 ? Games basically only ever need to support a KeyBoard, Mouse and some form of JoyStick or GamePad , so at least we got a break on that one ... The long and short of it is that Game Programmers are forced to do the work of many people in a very short amount of time and still have the end product looking good and being as exciting as possible. So , My vote is still for Game Programming.
The tears shed in vain and the hatred and pain will be nothing but dust at the end of the day
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Well , you've missed out on two very important aspects here - 1) I've never seen an Exciting operating system. Operating systems - although they perform a large amount of work in the background , never have to try really hard to stimulate the user into doing something - sure , a MessageBox can have a really exciting message , but , when was the last time you clicked on one of those because you actually WANTED to? The operating system is just sitting there WAITING to be used , while a game has to actively DEMAND participation while simultaneously making it fun and exciting for the user. 2) Operating systems are built by much larger teams and take several times longer to get a version shipping - speaking of which - games only have ONE SHOT. If a game is released and its first version is no good , you can bet that nobody is going to buy "Buggy Game - Beta Release(stable)" , whereas operating systems have the luxury of knowing that they have a few years to get everything working - did you think Windows was just thought up three months ago , Kernel and all - and plug and play from the word "go" ? No , operating system designers have years and years to perfect their product , whereas Game Programmers typically have a little over eighteen months to build a virtual world that entices and excites the user into wanting to use the product. Furthermore, typical Game Design teams have , on average, less than twenty people on board who have to do all the work , how many employees does Microsoft have? How many thousands of programmers have contributed to the Linux Operating System to make it as robust and reliable as it is today? When you think about the sheer workload and the intensive requirements that Game Programming demands of its programmers , I think you can begin to see why its the hardest form of programming around ... PS - when was the last time you saw somebody trying to plug in a PC Tablet as an input device to DOOM3 ? Games basically only ever need to support a KeyBoard, Mouse and some form of JoyStick or GamePad , so at least we got a break on that one ... The long and short of it is that Game Programmers are forced to do the work of many people in a very short amount of time and still have the end product looking good and being as exciting as possible. So , My vote is still for Game Programming.
The tears shed in vain and the hatred and pain will be nothing but dust at the end of the day
Max_Power_Up wrote:
My vote is still for Game Programming.
Looking over this entire discussion my "vote" will be going to any software that is used in a life-critical scenario. That is the hardest form of programming because the developer will know while writing the software the lives of REAL PEOPLE are potentially at risk should anything go wrong with the software.
Upcoming FREE developer events: * Developer Day Scotland My website | blog
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... programming that completely satisfies the user requirements. Way harder than game programming.
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
... programming that completely satisfies the user requirements. Way harder than game programming.
lol ... yeah, but that's because you can't get users to make up their mind about what they want, not because the syntax is hard to master. :)
Pete Soheil DigiOz Multimedia http://www.digioz.com
