New Hope for VC++ Devs
-
How many lines of COBOL are being written every day? How many NEW COBOL programmers are there? One day there will be old systems and no developers! Same will happen with C++ and C# Soon we will just talk to our computers, like Orac! :)
------------------------------------ I try to appear cooler, by calling him Euler.
Dalek Dave wrote:
Soon we will just talk to our computers, like Orac!
If soon is written in about 100 years.... hey... programming language "SOON" there's an idea.... hmmmm....
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
-
My first language was 6809 assembly then basic on a Commodore SuperPet and I'm sure there are others that go back much further but in general great developers know enough to use the best tool for the job and 90% of the time that tool is no longer c++ but let them eat moldy old potatoes I say, I'll eat whatever the cake du jour is. :)
When everyone is a hero no one is a hero.
John C wrote:
and 90% of the time that tool is no longer c++ but let them eat moldy old potatoes I say
The difference is you act like that 10% doesn't exist... and doesn't command higher salaries.... but I don't mind... because it means more here. 3D is booming, and performance parallel 3D means the experts in the languages that count are commanding higher benefits. There are those trying to compete with C#, no problem. They spend 90% of their time scratching their head saying, "his numbers are impossible! I can't do that in C# so he can't either." No problem. that is why I get the contracts, and they don't. The demand may be shifting, but it has not shifted in some areas, and those areas are pushing outward and reexpanding that 10%. Multi-process is still considered an art. the quest for a "magic bullet" has left many tools to command, and the desire for no knowledge of how to command them, thus no brains behind the actual use. The net result and loss of performance therein is a shift back to the experts who know how to do things right, not one way, but many ways. There is not one path, but many. You see one, with all other paths being ancient moldy potatoes. But your perception does not drive reality. Life was tougher last year, but in November that all changed. Ironically, and I never noticed that until just now, it was 6 years to the day (Nov 9) I almost died in the hospital. I'd say this last anniversary turned things around rather spectacularly.... it doubled the income streams with a minor shift in hours. hey, if I have to be paid twice the income for moldy potatoes, I'll take them. I have people clammering for more if I could provide it. Pity no one really wants to do moldy potatoes.... There is a lot more money than I can even earn there.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
-
VC++ Team Blog[^] > IMHO, Microsoft did a great job in improving the > C++ compiler since VC6 age. I don't like very much > the VC6 C++ compiler, but I do love the VC6 IDE! You and everyone else on the planet, as far as I can tell! :-) The IDE team has definitely gotten your feedback, and they're working hard to make VC10's IDE better. We recently got T-shirts with the slogan "10 is the new 6", heh.
Kevin
once again another giant thread in the lounge about: who's salary is bigger (ha) and who's coding language is worse/better/older/newer/longer lasting (we all know it's spearmint)
----------------------------------------------------------- Completion Deadline: two days before the day after tomorrow
modified on Thursday, January 03, 2008 6:39:18 PM
-
What's C++ again? :) , it's going to be tough times ahead for C++, it's definitely goning to become a niche language like ASM.
WPF - Imagineers Wanted Follow your nose using DoubleAnimationUsingPath
Enjoy your VB :)
-
VC++ Team Blog[^] > IMHO, Microsoft did a great job in improving the > C++ compiler since VC6 age. I don't like very much > the VC6 C++ compiler, but I do love the VC6 IDE! You and everyone else on the planet, as far as I can tell! :-) The IDE team has definitely gotten your feedback, and they're working hard to make VC10's IDE better. We recently got T-shirts with the slogan "10 is the new 6", heh.
Kevin
Meh - after two years with Linux I don't really care about IDEs any more. Just need a good compiler, editor, libraries and a debugger. Anyway, it would be nice to be able to install only VC++ without all this .NET stuff.
-
John C wrote:
and 90% of the time that tool is no longer c++ but let them eat moldy old potatoes I say
The difference is you act like that 10% doesn't exist... and doesn't command higher salaries.... but I don't mind... because it means more here. 3D is booming, and performance parallel 3D means the experts in the languages that count are commanding higher benefits. There are those trying to compete with C#, no problem. They spend 90% of their time scratching their head saying, "his numbers are impossible! I can't do that in C# so he can't either." No problem. that is why I get the contracts, and they don't. The demand may be shifting, but it has not shifted in some areas, and those areas are pushing outward and reexpanding that 10%. Multi-process is still considered an art. the quest for a "magic bullet" has left many tools to command, and the desire for no knowledge of how to command them, thus no brains behind the actual use. The net result and loss of performance therein is a shift back to the experts who know how to do things right, not one way, but many ways. There is not one path, but many. You see one, with all other paths being ancient moldy potatoes. But your perception does not drive reality. Life was tougher last year, but in November that all changed. Ironically, and I never noticed that until just now, it was 6 years to the day (Nov 9) I almost died in the hospital. I'd say this last anniversary turned things around rather spectacularly.... it doubled the income streams with a minor shift in hours. hey, if I have to be paid twice the income for moldy potatoes, I'll take them. I have people clammering for more if I could provide it. Pity no one really wants to do moldy potatoes.... There is a lot more money than I can even earn there.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
El Corazon wrote:
The difference is you act like that 10% doesn't exist
Oh I know it exists and I know that skilled, truly great developers can command any salary they wish in almost any language in the right circumstances. The sheer audacity and base ignorance of believing anything with absolute certainty is just plain funny and to me endlessly entertaining no matter how you slice it. ;) P.S. do you not see any irony and humour in the fact that my post just above yours advocated always using the best tool for the job and got voted down repeatedly? That's pure gold to me. Getting one votes from people that disagree with that is an honour. :)
When everyone is a hero no one is a hero.
-
once again another giant thread in the lounge about: who's salary is bigger (ha) and who's coding language is worse/better/older/newer/longer lasting (we all know it's spearmint)
----------------------------------------------------------- Completion Deadline: two days before the day after tomorrow
modified on Thursday, January 03, 2008 6:39:18 PM
But that's just it, it's not really about either of those things when it comes down to it; it's common knowledge it's all about sexual reproduction and breadth and girth. ;) I've really got to stop stirring up the c++ crowd, they might hop in their horse drawn carriages and come after me with their flint lock's. :)
When everyone is a hero no one is a hero.
-
El Corazon wrote:
I encourage everyone now to go to C# here.
No.
Mark Salsbery Microsoft MVP - Visual C++ :java:
5!
Nobody can give you wiser advice than yourself. - Cicero .·´¯`·->ßRÅhmmÃ<-·´¯`·.
-
John C wrote:
and 90% of the time that tool is no longer c++ but let them eat moldy old potatoes I say
The difference is you act like that 10% doesn't exist... and doesn't command higher salaries.... but I don't mind... because it means more here. 3D is booming, and performance parallel 3D means the experts in the languages that count are commanding higher benefits. There are those trying to compete with C#, no problem. They spend 90% of their time scratching their head saying, "his numbers are impossible! I can't do that in C# so he can't either." No problem. that is why I get the contracts, and they don't. The demand may be shifting, but it has not shifted in some areas, and those areas are pushing outward and reexpanding that 10%. Multi-process is still considered an art. the quest for a "magic bullet" has left many tools to command, and the desire for no knowledge of how to command them, thus no brains behind the actual use. The net result and loss of performance therein is a shift back to the experts who know how to do things right, not one way, but many ways. There is not one path, but many. You see one, with all other paths being ancient moldy potatoes. But your perception does not drive reality. Life was tougher last year, but in November that all changed. Ironically, and I never noticed that until just now, it was 6 years to the day (Nov 9) I almost died in the hospital. I'd say this last anniversary turned things around rather spectacularly.... it doubled the income streams with a minor shift in hours. hey, if I have to be paid twice the income for moldy potatoes, I'll take them. I have people clammering for more if I could provide it. Pity no one really wants to do moldy potatoes.... There is a lot more money than I can even earn there.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Well put, altogether!
Nobody can give you wiser advice than yourself. - Cicero .·´¯`·->ßRÅhmmÃ<-·´¯`·.
-
once again another giant thread in the lounge about: who's salary is bigger (ha) and who's coding language is worse/better/older/newer/longer lasting (we all know it's spearmint)
----------------------------------------------------------- Completion Deadline: two days before the day after tomorrow
modified on Thursday, January 03, 2008 6:39:18 PM
-
VC++ Team Blog[^] > IMHO, Microsoft did a great job in improving the > C++ compiler since VC6 age. I don't like very much > the VC6 C++ compiler, but I do love the VC6 IDE! You and everyone else on the planet, as far as I can tell! :-) The IDE team has definitely gotten your feedback, and they're working hard to make VC10's IDE better. We recently got T-shirts with the slogan "10 is the new 6", heh.
Kevin
It's good to hear. I thought I was merely feebleminded with age because I'm so often fighting with the IDE to make it something that works. Even VS2003 starts to look good in comparison for and with me. Elsewhere in the thread there's a group of band-wagoner's trying to bury C++. Perhaps they ougth look up some of Mark Twain's quotes. Several realities ought dawn on them, the primary one is use a bit of hindsight. Languages are spewed out constantly. Many gain great popularity only to be ursurped by the next sliced bread. C++ has withstood the true test - it still is. In a year or so, the C# mouth-breathers (just funnin', kids!) will be swearing fielty to E#+ . Consider: M$ wouldn't be enhancing C++ if they didn't 'C'ee an need (and cu$tomer base). As for the popularity of C#? I play with it - but partly because MS makes access to many feature difficult via C++ to drive users that way. It's their pure .NET baby and it exists to help make the world the blissful realm of .NET. A Micro$oft world. Linux never loses its 'foothold' - ultimately because in the heart of things, computerization requires power: no sooner do CPU's, memory, and storage access times increase than the demands of the applications consume them all and demand yet more. Wasn't the death of Unix/Linix also pronounced? Aren't they still used by the largest systems needing the most stability and performance? If I'm not mistaken, was is not M$'s hope that C# would be the new VB ? One last thing: M$ should give free updates of VS 10 to VS 9 owners. You screwed them for a few versions and that much you owe to them.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"How do you find out if you're unwanted if everyone you try to ask tells you to go away?" - Balboos HaGadol -
El Corazon wrote:
The difference is you act like that 10% doesn't exist
Oh I know it exists and I know that skilled, truly great developers can command any salary they wish in almost any language in the right circumstances. The sheer audacity and base ignorance of believing anything with absolute certainty is just plain funny and to me endlessly entertaining no matter how you slice it. ;) P.S. do you not see any irony and humour in the fact that my post just above yours advocated always using the best tool for the job and got voted down repeatedly? That's pure gold to me. Getting one votes from people that disagree with that is an honour. :)
When everyone is a hero no one is a hero.
John C wrote:
P.S. do you not see any irony and humour in the fact that my post just above yours advocated always using the best tool for the job and got voted down repeatedly? That's pure gold to me. Getting one votes from people that disagree with that is an honour.
That is you John, all over. Calling C++ ancient, even when it is seeing a rebirth, calling users of it ancient, using flintlocks, and mouldy potatoes, and then complaining because you are getting voted down for complimenting them.... :rolleyes: I think there is a disagreement, and obviously from MS and others, that you are wrong. And you are demanding the evidence be erased because you do not want it to be true.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
-
C++ will change just as C# has. It already is doing so. With new features being rolled in and people already using many of them the language is still growing. There are still those who desire speed over allowing everyone to see your code. Especially those with something of a security concern. Not that anyone's employer's around here actually care about that... ;) "managed" code has its pros and cons, and some of those pros to one person are a con to another. There are some things I would not be allowed to write in C#, end of story even if I wanted. It wouldn't be a preference either, it would be security concern in which case the choice is not mine to make. Next year will be interesting... with two 90K plus income streams active.... Hey, I don't mind, everyone else can go to C#. I don't mind at all now. Leaves more $ for me. So please, please, stay in C#. In fact, I encourage everyone now to go to C# here. I don't mind in the least.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
El Corazon wrote:
Hey, I don't mind, everyone else can go to C#. I don't mind at all now
Actually I'm in C# and planning to go back to C++, I will have to re-learn it though... :(
-
Dalek Dave wrote:
Soon we will just talk to our computers, like Orac!
If soon is written in about 100 years.... hey... programming language "SOON" there's an idea.... hmmmm....
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
El Corazon wrote:
hey... programming language "SOON" there's an idea.... hmmmm....
You may be on to something. I say trademark it now. SOON: Some Other Old Nondistinct language Such Odd Oops Nomenclature language Syntactically Odd Other Newbie language
Gary
-
John C wrote:
P.S. do you not see any irony and humour in the fact that my post just above yours advocated always using the best tool for the job and got voted down repeatedly? That's pure gold to me. Getting one votes from people that disagree with that is an honour.
That is you John, all over. Calling C++ ancient, even when it is seeing a rebirth, calling users of it ancient, using flintlocks, and mouldy potatoes, and then complaining because you are getting voted down for complimenting them.... :rolleyes: I think there is a disagreement, and obviously from MS and others, that you are wrong. And you are demanding the evidence be erased because you do not want it to be true.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
El Corazon wrote:
I think there is a disagreement, and obviously from MS and others, that you are wrong. And you are demanding the evidence be erased because you do not want it to be true.
In all honesty I couldn't care less. C++ is a dead language to me, I'll never use it again unless I get into other areas of development that require it. I agree that there is a very tiny area of work where it is an ideal tool but the great majority of c++ users are clinging on to it for no logical reason only emotional ones. Anyone who ever expects to be something in this industry needs to leave their preconceived notions at the door and not get married to any particular language or method of development. I've been coding since before there was a c++ in common use and I'll be coding long after it is no longer in common use, perhaps that time has already come. In a technology business you live and die by the latest technology that's the way of it. Right now .net is the most efficient way to produce bullet proof, extendable, debuggable code for nearly all windows applications, anyone who isn't using it for any common windows application is negligent at best. When something better comes along I'll drop .net in a heartbeat, a craftsman appreciates his tools, but he'll toss them out the instant a better one comes along. To say C++ is seeing a rebirth is ludicrous, where you see rebirth I see death throes, there is no evidence to that points to anything but people abandoning it in droves. Why defend it? Your working in an area where apparently there is no better choice of tool, but what you do is, you must admit, pretty specialized, don't carry the torch for the foolish of the world. As someone once said "Great programmers don't defend stupid".
When everyone is a hero no one is a hero.
-
El Corazon wrote:
I think there is a disagreement, and obviously from MS and others, that you are wrong. And you are demanding the evidence be erased because you do not want it to be true.
In all honesty I couldn't care less. C++ is a dead language to me, I'll never use it again unless I get into other areas of development that require it. I agree that there is a very tiny area of work where it is an ideal tool but the great majority of c++ users are clinging on to it for no logical reason only emotional ones. Anyone who ever expects to be something in this industry needs to leave their preconceived notions at the door and not get married to any particular language or method of development. I've been coding since before there was a c++ in common use and I'll be coding long after it is no longer in common use, perhaps that time has already come. In a technology business you live and die by the latest technology that's the way of it. Right now .net is the most efficient way to produce bullet proof, extendable, debuggable code for nearly all windows applications, anyone who isn't using it for any common windows application is negligent at best. When something better comes along I'll drop .net in a heartbeat, a craftsman appreciates his tools, but he'll toss them out the instant a better one comes along. To say C++ is seeing a rebirth is ludicrous, where you see rebirth I see death throes, there is no evidence to that points to anything but people abandoning it in droves. Why defend it? Your working in an area where apparently there is no better choice of tool, but what you do is, you must admit, pretty specialized, don't carry the torch for the foolish of the world. As someone once said "Great programmers don't defend stupid".
When everyone is a hero no one is a hero.
John C wrote:
As someone once said "Great programmers don't defend stupid".
Then I suggest you get a new job too. The future will do what it will, not you nor I can change that. You complaining to people for not obeying YOUR wishes and YOUR view of the world and anyone not having YOUR opinion of both the current state and the future state are all "stupid" is highly egotistical on your behalf, if not quite a bit narcissistic. I suggest you let people be and if C++ gets it's rebirth then it will, if it does not, then it will not, and ranting about why people are helping to support it have a rebirth because you disagree with them is rather silly of you. Let it be, and let it grow, or die, but telling everyone they are stupid for not obeying you and agreeing with you is ridiculous John. And that is exactly how you are perceived. So either you need to change how you portray yourself, or accept the votes you earn for that portrayal.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
-
John C wrote:
As someone once said "Great programmers don't defend stupid".
Then I suggest you get a new job too. The future will do what it will, not you nor I can change that. You complaining to people for not obeying YOUR wishes and YOUR view of the world and anyone not having YOUR opinion of both the current state and the future state are all "stupid" is highly egotistical on your behalf, if not quite a bit narcissistic. I suggest you let people be and if C++ gets it's rebirth then it will, if it does not, then it will not, and ranting about why people are helping to support it have a rebirth because you disagree with them is rather silly of you. Let it be, and let it grow, or die, but telling everyone they are stupid for not obeying you and agreeing with you is ridiculous John. And that is exactly how you are perceived. So either you need to change how you portray yourself, or accept the votes you earn for that portrayal.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
-
C++ will change just as C# has. It already is doing so. With new features being rolled in and people already using many of them the language is still growing. There are still those who desire speed over allowing everyone to see your code. Especially those with something of a security concern. Not that anyone's employer's around here actually care about that... ;) "managed" code has its pros and cons, and some of those pros to one person are a con to another. There are some things I would not be allowed to write in C#, end of story even if I wanted. It wouldn't be a preference either, it would be security concern in which case the choice is not mine to make. Next year will be interesting... with two 90K plus income streams active.... Hey, I don't mind, everyone else can go to C#. I don't mind at all now. Leaves more $ for me. So please, please, stay in C#. In fact, I encourage everyone now to go to C# here. I don't mind in the least.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
I go one better, i do C# and C++ and do lots of work integrating the two. Not to mention i still get my hands dirty with c and asm in the hardware space :) So all of you keep doing either C++ or C# and I will continue to stitch you both together ;)