How can you tell that it is time for a new career?
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I've been programming in one form or another for over 30 years and I'll tell you something you've probably heard before... that the grass isn't always greener on the other side. It's true as more than a few times in those 30 years I've contemplated what it'd be like to be a farmer, a business owner, etc. When I think seriously about it I know that those would have been wrong things for me to run to. My last career position almost took it all out of me. I was 6 years in that position and survived 9 layoffs in the company until the 10th one got me too. Within a month after the layoff I had a new job and a new enthusiasm for programming. Sometimes all it takes is a change of environment and even that you sometimes have to be forced into (like me - why I stayed in that last position for 6 years I'll never know). Good luck.
I don't have such a wide background but I completely agree. Sometimes you wish you were doing something else and that what you do sucks a bunch, but when you finally change carreers you see that you are not as happy as you thought you would be.
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Hey man I feel your pain, Sometimes I wish I was a goat farmer in the montains and the only thing I had to worry about was milking my goats, walking them and tending to my weed bushes on the outcrop of some cliff somewhere, Other than that when you feel like if you see a another computer again you gonna commit mass murder its normally a good sign that its time to hang up your keybourd and move onto working in the sun or something.
I thought about that too. Being a farmer and stuff. But to do that you have to let go other stuff you enjoy as well, so when I learned that I knew couldn't be a farmer
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I still enjoy coding and working with computers, but at times I just want to throw it all away before I no longer enjoy it. When is it time to hang it all up, and move on?
"There are three sides to every story. Yours, mine and the truth" ~ unknown
"All things good to know are difficult to learn" ~ Greek Proverb
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary" ~ Vidal Sassoon
A few parameters or environmental signals: 1) No work assigned for a prolonged time. 2) The team coworkers do not cooperate. 3) Peers lower than you are promoted or given a higher priority. ...
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A pessimist sees only the dark side of the clouds, and mopes; a philosopher sees both sides, and shrugs; an optimist doesn't see the clouds at all - he's walking on them. --Leonard Louis Levinson -
I still enjoy coding and working with computers, but at times I just want to throw it all away before I no longer enjoy it. When is it time to hang it all up, and move on?
"There are three sides to every story. Yours, mine and the truth" ~ unknown
"All things good to know are difficult to learn" ~ Greek Proverb
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary" ~ Vidal Sassoon
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I still enjoy coding and working with computers, but at times I just want to throw it all away before I no longer enjoy it. When is it time to hang it all up, and move on?
"There are three sides to every story. Yours, mine and the truth" ~ unknown
"All things good to know are difficult to learn" ~ Greek Proverb
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary" ~ Vidal Sassoon
After 30 years of programming and 5 attempting not to and still eat, the question to ask your self is why did you go into programming and what is not meeting your needs right now? Answer this - when you write/code and you run it and it works - do you get a rush? If you do find a new programming job, if you don't find a new career.
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I don't want to switch my career for now but I have thought of the same idea that you've mentioned! I guess this is common between developers!
Make it simple, as simple as possible, but not simpler.
I think we all feel that way from time-to-time. However for me all I have to do is see that guy with the jack-hammer on the side of the road as I drive in to the office and that usually cures it! -CB :D
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I still enjoy coding and working with computers, but at times I just want to throw it all away before I no longer enjoy it. When is it time to hang it all up, and move on?
"There are three sides to every story. Yours, mine and the truth" ~ unknown
"All things good to know are difficult to learn" ~ Greek Proverb
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary" ~ Vidal Sassoon
Funny this came up after I spent most of my weekend daydreaming about leaving the keyboard and becoming a sushi chef. I've been in one facet of IT or another now for about 20 years and there are those days that we all have. It's really just my complete distaste for the whole job hunting process that keeps me where I'm at some days. It used to bother me to know that I would take a big hit financially to leave this field with no experience with anything else that pays well, so I started preparing myself financially... spending less, eliminating the consumer mentality, simplifying. Over the course of about a year, I've managed to lower my required income to something that could be covered with half my current paycheck. I live in a smaller place, eat more vegetables at home, spend more time creating instead of consuming. The results were not what I expected. While my career hasn't changed, my attitude has. I don't resent my career anymore because I no longer feel like a slave to it. I have options. It's easier now, I feel, to do a better job because I don't worry so much about the peripheral BS. The point I'm trying to make is, if you're unhappy about your work, you might want to step back farther than just focusing on what you do. Look at the big picture. Work to live, don't live to work. Your skills will improve with time and you'll make more money. Use that to finance the things that give you pleasure. I've been to too many funerals and I've never heard anyone say, "this guy was an awesome (programmer|DBA|basket weaver|etc)."
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What if it never was your passion? I just did it cuz the money was good and I needed the money. 2 years in school to prove I'm trainable (apparently VERY trainable)...and a career fell in my lap. But now I'm stuck. I don't really want to be a developer for the rest of my life...but what else can I do to bring in this kind of money? Off to school we go again.....:confused:
"Tarter Sauce" = a 7yr old's version of "WTF!"
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Hey man I feel your pain, Sometimes I wish I was a goat farmer in the montains and the only thing I had to worry about was milking my goats, walking them and tending to my weed bushes on the outcrop of some cliff somewhere, Other than that when you feel like if you see a another computer again you gonna commit mass murder its normally a good sign that its time to hang up your keybourd and move onto working in the sun or something.
All I can say is I just changed careers, retired from the military after 21 years. Some days I wish I could go back, but overall it was the right time for me. Don't jump because things are tough one day, but if you just hate what you are doing and working on cars is really your passion then you probably will not regret it. The amount of money you make can't make up for hating your job. In 21 years I can count on one hand the number of times I felt like it was all bs and I just wanted to pack it in. And the military gets paid crap compared to the same level of responsibility with none of the risk. But I loved what I was doing and believe in it. Good luck, and I hope you find what is right for you! Dave
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What if it never was your passion? I just did it cuz the money was good and I needed the money. 2 years in school to prove I'm trainable (apparently VERY trainable)...and a career fell in my lap. But now I'm stuck. I don't really want to be a developer for the rest of my life...but what else can I do to bring in this kind of money? Off to school we go again.....:confused:
"Tarter Sauce" = a 7yr old's version of "WTF!"
It all depends on how tied to money your happiness is I guess then. For example I have friends that are content with a job they like to the point where they took a ~40% pay cut to get where they want. I also have friends that quit jobs every few months because someone else was offering 50 cents more an hour. Do you really need what you are making as a developer? I mean say your making 100k but if you'd be happy with a 50k lifestyle you have more options than the guy that needs the 100k to be happy. There are jobs out there that pay just as well, or you could work longer hours in a job you like versus shorter hours in one you don't. Its all up to you.
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Josh Gray wrote:
I dare say you'd earn a bit more in Sydney....
Sydney... Double the pay, double the living costs, tripple the stress... No thanks
Josh Gray wrote:
But think about it, do you reakon a pannel beater gets to work on BMW's all day every day?
No job is glamorous, I know that. But just because a job isnt glamorous doesnt mean you dont enjoy it.
"There are three sides to every story. Yours, mine and the truth" ~ unknown "All things good to know are difficult to learn" ~ Greek Proverb "The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary" ~ Vidal Sassoon
Thunderbox666 wrote:
No job is glamorous, I know that. But just because a job isnt glamorous doesnt mean you dont enjoy it.
Right on :) I have a physics background and weaselled my way into IT because I did a lot of simulation work and electives in comp sci. I liked research because I could be one of very few people that know as much about a particular topic. I thought it was really cool to be able to say "I proved that". IT is kind of that way too where I am. I'm the go to guy for IT, when a user has no clue why something happened I'm the guy that says it is because of how this service listening on this port froze and blah blah. I like knowing the ity bity bits of things and the larger scope (I get to see all the billings/staffing hours/contract negotiating crap and so have a better grasp of the business than most people in other roles).
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What if it never was your passion? I just did it cuz the money was good and I needed the money. 2 years in school to prove I'm trainable (apparently VERY trainable)...and a career fell in my lap. But now I'm stuck. I don't really want to be a developer for the rest of my life...but what else can I do to bring in this kind of money? Off to school we go again.....:confused:
"Tarter Sauce" = a 7yr old's version of "WTF!"
aubndez wrote:
Off to school we go again..:confused:
Yes, do like me. Throw away the assembler and C, and go for C++, no Visual Basic, CE/Pocket PC /Pocket PC 2000/Mobile 5/Mobile 6, no MFC, no C#, no Java, oh, wait PHP, CGI, JavaScript, .NET, AJAX, er maybe WPF, no wait SilverLight, maybe better start over with D. The problem I am finding is the rate of change of this technology. If I could lay a brick wall, or weld steel 100 years ago, I could still get a decent job today probably with almost the same tools. If I gained experience 10 years ago in software, I am working with a dead language today. I just quoted a web update for a client. He had sent the original work to India for development, but it only works 80%, which means it doesn't work. He knows my qualifications, capabilities and quality of work, but he wants to pay me "hundreds of dollars" for work that I low-ball quoted at just under $5,000. Those with more than a few years in this business, how many tools/technologies/platforms have you had to experience to get where you are today?
Gary
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What if it never was your passion? I just did it cuz the money was good and I needed the money. 2 years in school to prove I'm trainable (apparently VERY trainable)...and a career fell in my lap. But now I'm stuck. I don't really want to be a developer for the rest of my life...but what else can I do to bring in this kind of money? Off to school we go again.....:confused:
"Tarter Sauce" = a 7yr old's version of "WTF!"
aubndez wrote:
What if it never was your passion?
Then you should reconsider software engineering as a career, imho. Also, money is the wrong should not be the primary reason for selecting a career. /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Music | Articles | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
modified on Monday, February 11, 2008 12:40 PM
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aubndez wrote:
What if it never was your passion?
Then you should reconsider software engineering as a career, imho. Also, money is the wrong should not be the primary reason for selecting a career. /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Music | Articles | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
modified on Monday, February 11, 2008 12:40 PM
Ravi Bhavnani wrote:
Also, money is the wrong reason for selecting a career.
Not necessarily. I pour a great cup of coffee --- and I really enjoyed making someone's day better just by making sure their coffee cup stayed full for the hour they sat at the restaurant for lunch. But I can't raise my kids on tips for pouring coffee. There's a certain amount of security to consider in the career you choose -- not necessarily related to money -- but in regards to your family and your hopes and dreams for them. It's still just a means to an end. But that doesn't necessarily mean you enjoy it. And who ever said that just because you're good at something (and I happen to be good at coding) you have to enjoy it. There would be nothing to complain about if you actually got to do what you wanted to without having to worry about HOW you were going to do it. Finances do matter when questioning your career choice.
"Tarter Sauce" = a 7yr old's version of "WTF!"
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I still enjoy coding and working with computers, but at times I just want to throw it all away before I no longer enjoy it. When is it time to hang it all up, and move on?
"There are three sides to every story. Yours, mine and the truth" ~ unknown
"All things good to know are difficult to learn" ~ Greek Proverb
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary" ~ Vidal Sassoon
Whenever I think I want a new career because I'm having a bad day, I remember back to the summer I worked at a Tyson's poultry plant hanging live chickens on moving shackles ... really. By the end of the day, I looked and smelled like a chicken. X| So compared to that (and a few other jobs I endured), writing programs in a nice, clean office environment ain't so bad...no matter what the situation.
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Josh Gray wrote:
You'll end up doing work that is not your choice
Thats me now
Josh Gray wrote:
get covered in dirt, come home smelly
I worked in construction for a bit when I left school so I am used to this (well i was then lol)
Josh Gray wrote:
and probably earn a third of what you do now
Not possible... I live in Regional NSW (Australia) and dont even clear AU$40k/year (less then US$35k for those overseas) My main roll isnt programming (as I am still a Noob compared to most people) but I am starting to get my name out there and doing a bit. But in the meantime, I am on the crap wage, long hours, and have very little job satisfaction. Most of the coding I do get to do is in my own time, which isnt so bad as it means I get to keep any money I make from it instead of it going to a CEO's new car or something
"There are three sides to every story. Yours, mine and the truth" ~ unknown "All things good to know are difficult to learn" ~ Greek Proverb "The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary" ~ Vidal Sassoon
Thunderbox, you mentioned construction and you are a software developer. Here's a lead you may be interested in. Look at the company Common Point Inc. (Commonpointinc.com). Their application is construction software. They are a small company. Hopefully you're interested. JL.
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My life-long passion has always been playing and singing "classical" music (Baroque, Classical, Romantic, etc.) When I was 18, my teachers (big names in their own right) told me that although I would never be a Horowitz or a Van Cliburn, I would be easily accepted into any conservatory I wanted to attend, and after many years I would eventually become a successful second-tier virtuoso keyboardist (I studied piano, organ, oboe, and voice). Unfortunately, I also wanted to have a family, and you don't pay family bills playing classical music. So my plan was to be an engineer (software, as it turned out) while being an amateur musician. This worked nicely for many adults I knew back in the 70's and early 80's, and still seems to work just fine over in Europe. Unfortunately, it doesn't really work out in the U.S.A of today, however. Our experimentation with Voodoo Economics has resulted in a "new normal" of 70-hour work weeks, hellish multi-hour commutes because of ridiculous real-estate prices, and an overall economic reality of a middle class that is running scared. So now here I sit, straddled with bills I can only just barely pay even with my big salary--including a massive student loan I took to get the career I wanted. I have no complaints with software engineering. It pays well, and at times it is even enjoyable. But I miss my music a lot. I guess there's always retirement.
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One philosophy: when you discover there's more to life than computers and you're not doing them. What are the other jobs? The president of a bank is still just a glorified teller. A talking head on the news creates nothing. A philopher/king once dispaired: "Everything which can be said has been said; everything that can be done has been done; and there's nothing knew under the sun." (A guy named Solomon.) Is coding the be all and end all? No - I could probably be happy as a photographer - but wait - to make a living at it you usually do crappy sittings of brats and their hellspawn. My imagined view of hours in the darkroom creating art - easily as comforting as hours creating a new class library - rarely earns one a living. For a while, I was blessed: I always wanted to be a Chemist - and was. I had great fun with computers, and combined them both. What a way to earn a living. All things must pass. Now, circumstances are such that only the computers are left. Sometimes, it sucks. Sometimes, more often, the day flies by. But, by and large, it starts to come down to a single phrase for however you earn your vegetables: "That's why they call it work!" If it were fun all the time, it would be called something else. Moreover, they'd not have to pay anyone to do it. Don't dispair - in the long run, we're all just worm-bait on-the-hoof.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"How do you find out if you're unwanted if everyone you try to ask tells you to go away?" - Balboos HaGadolIn my case, I have a degree in Biochemistry. But, after a few computer classes (late 70's), I fell in love with computer programming. Not long after that, I joined a biotech company that made clinical chemistry and research chemistry equipment. I was writing a lot of their application software. I felt like I was on top of the world using both my chemistry background and software development. This was a dream job. To understand the domain gave me a leg up in that career. Unfortunately, after 13 years at that job, we ware all laid off. The down part about staying in a job that long is that you stagnage. Finding another job was difficult after that. I had only one line of thinking about SW development. After a few years boucing around the industry, I learned much more than staying with the one company and I landed back at another biotech company, doing the same type of programming. Only, now I have more knowledge about software development and code design. And, at this new company, there are software developer who have been here for more than 10 and 15 years. (Do biotech companies make us SW developers lazy and out of touch? But, it does seem that you can put in 20 years or more and have a satisfying career). With all this said, Balboos, since you have a chemistry background,you might want to consider a career with a biotech company that makes products for chemists. You can be paid for both chemistry and programming. Look into companies like Thermo Fisher Scientific, Dionex, Varion, etc. JL.
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Ravi Bhavnani wrote:
Also, money is the wrong reason for selecting a career.
Not necessarily. I pour a great cup of coffee --- and I really enjoyed making someone's day better just by making sure their coffee cup stayed full for the hour they sat at the restaurant for lunch. But I can't raise my kids on tips for pouring coffee. There's a certain amount of security to consider in the career you choose -- not necessarily related to money -- but in regards to your family and your hopes and dreams for them. It's still just a means to an end. But that doesn't necessarily mean you enjoy it. And who ever said that just because you're good at something (and I happen to be good at coding) you have to enjoy it. There would be nothing to complain about if you actually got to do what you wanted to without having to worry about HOW you were going to do it. Finances do matter when questioning your career choice.
"Tarter Sauce" = a 7yr old's version of "WTF!"
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In my case, I have a degree in Biochemistry. But, after a few computer classes (late 70's), I fell in love with computer programming. Not long after that, I joined a biotech company that made clinical chemistry and research chemistry equipment. I was writing a lot of their application software. I felt like I was on top of the world using both my chemistry background and software development. This was a dream job. To understand the domain gave me a leg up in that career. Unfortunately, after 13 years at that job, we ware all laid off. The down part about staying in a job that long is that you stagnage. Finding another job was difficult after that. I had only one line of thinking about SW development. After a few years boucing around the industry, I learned much more than staying with the one company and I landed back at another biotech company, doing the same type of programming. Only, now I have more knowledge about software development and code design. And, at this new company, there are software developer who have been here for more than 10 and 15 years. (Do biotech companies make us SW developers lazy and out of touch? But, it does seem that you can put in 20 years or more and have a satisfying career). With all this said, Balboos, since you have a chemistry background,you might want to consider a career with a biotech company that makes products for chemists. You can be paid for both chemistry and programming. Look into companies like Thermo Fisher Scientific, Dionex, Varion, etc. JL.
James Lonero wrote:
you might want to consider a career with a biotech company
I am most definitely not a biotech guy! Never even took a course in biology (My High School required physics, instead). That's not to say I'm ignorant of the field - can converse intelligently with my son who majored in genetic engineering as an undergrad. I've been through the lay-off route - After nine years, they just walked in, thanked me with 2 weeks severence pay, and let me clear my desk out (I wasn't booted - just replaced). It worked out for the best because, as you experienced, you become stale without others about to exchange and argue. Luckily, I got a new spot in only three months - which is pretty good. In the US, it seems they prefer 25 year old programmers with 20 years experience. Since I'm employeed as a contractor, I could freelance if I choose. The problem there becomes supplying customer service. I miss my lab toys. Modeling chemical systems is more satisfying than mining databases (or writing POS software) - and instrument automation is a delight. But I'm a realist - I've been out of mainstream chemistry for quite some time and it moves on very quickly. A 10 Mbyte diskpack isn't the symbol of status it used to be. Back in the sublime days - check out US Patent No. 4840931 . Computer model of an idea proven out by experimentation with diffuse reflectence FTIR. I think Google has a patent search engine. Somewhere or other, there are publications, too. But it seems like that was before forever. Balboos
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"How do you find out if you're unwanted if everyone you try to ask tells you to go away?" - Balboos HaGadol