Why "hate" US
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I was reading the thread below started by Martin Marvinski regarding coming to US. He started his post writing that people "hate" US. I don't know the exact quantity of people who love or hate US but stories like this one never made good impression of US in the past and neither these stories will in the future
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I have no doubt that some people in Afganistan reported these events as being true, but the news source read exactly that - that people who are in Afganistan claim that this occured. If it did or did not is a point wrenched out of all context by accepting the claims of those on the recieving end. A.A. wrote: Anyway its not like its the first time something along these lines happened anyway. No, but people sitting comfortably on their couches have always been keen to judge people who are acting in the field of war at risk of their own lives. Christian I am completely intolerant of stupidity. Stupidity is, of course, anything that doesn't conform to my way of thinking. - Jamie Hale - 29/05/2002
Christian Graus wrote: that people who are in Afganistan claim that this occured. I don't get it, is that supposed to mean they are less trustworthy because they are from there. What makes these types of articles convincing to me is that they are 'allies' and have little to fabricate. The other point is that this is not the first time something along these lines happened, as it seems with most civillian encounters in this conflict the same type of story pops up. While on this side of the world the narration of the sequence of events changed at least 4 time, with vastly different stories. So when the little girl with burn marks tells her side, I tend to take that into account(Ofcourse I am making the assumption that the translator is doing a good job). Christian Graus wrote: No, but people sitting comfortably on their couches have always been keen to judge people who are acting in the field of war at risk of their own lives. True in some cases, and the other side to that is what zhoujun said a thread down: 'seems people are indifferent about such things.'
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Christian Graus wrote: that people who are in Afganistan claim that this occured. I don't get it, is that supposed to mean they are less trustworthy because they are from there. What makes these types of articles convincing to me is that they are 'allies' and have little to fabricate. The other point is that this is not the first time something along these lines happened, as it seems with most civillian encounters in this conflict the same type of story pops up. While on this side of the world the narration of the sequence of events changed at least 4 time, with vastly different stories. So when the little girl with burn marks tells her side, I tend to take that into account(Ofcourse I am making the assumption that the translator is doing a good job). Christian Graus wrote: No, but people sitting comfortably on their couches have always been keen to judge people who are acting in the field of war at risk of their own lives. True in some cases, and the other side to that is what zhoujun said a thread down: 'seems people are indifferent about such things.'
A.A. wrote: I don't get it, is that supposed to mean they are less trustworthy because they are from there. No, it simply means they are not necessarily without an agenda, nor are we able to impartially judge the reasons for the attack, or the circumstances under which they occured. I would read US reports with similar distrust and expect the truth to lie somewhere in the middle. A.A. wrote: 'seems people are indifferent about such things.' Probably, but maybe some of us are simply willing to accept that we cannot have sufficient information to really judge. Christian I am completely intolerant of stupidity. Stupidity is, of course, anything that doesn't conform to my way of thinking. - Jamie Hale - 29/05/2002
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A.A. wrote: I don't get it, is that supposed to mean they are less trustworthy because they are from there. No, it simply means they are not necessarily without an agenda, nor are we able to impartially judge the reasons for the attack, or the circumstances under which they occured. I would read US reports with similar distrust and expect the truth to lie somewhere in the middle. A.A. wrote: 'seems people are indifferent about such things.' Probably, but maybe some of us are simply willing to accept that we cannot have sufficient information to really judge. Christian I am completely intolerant of stupidity. Stupidity is, of course, anything that doesn't conform to my way of thinking. - Jamie Hale - 29/05/2002
This story seems a little far-fetched to me; Amuricuns often accidentally, rather than intentionally, bomb people they didn't mean to bomb. Christian Graus wrote: US reports with similar distrust and expect the truth to lie somewhere in the middle My emphasis. "Programming is really just the mundane aspect of expressing a solution to a problem. There are talents that are specifically related to actually coding, but the real issue is being able to grasp problems and devise solutions that are detailed enough to actually be coded." -John Carmack [^]
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This story seems a little far-fetched to me; Amuricuns often accidentally, rather than intentionally, bomb people they didn't mean to bomb. Christian Graus wrote: US reports with similar distrust and expect the truth to lie somewhere in the middle My emphasis. "Programming is really just the mundane aspect of expressing a solution to a problem. There are talents that are specifically related to actually coding, but the real issue is being able to grasp problems and devise solutions that are detailed enough to actually be coded." -John Carmack [^]
Fact : the western press/media is far for uncensored than the rest. There are a lot of Western Journalists in Afghanistan, who all wnat to get a big story. Coverups in a situation like Afghanistan are a lot more difficult now than ever before. So I find it weird that the story appears in that journal and not others. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
More about me :-)
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this event is widely reported. but to my surprise,it did not get much criticizing. seems people are indifferent about such things. :confused:
It's not necassarily a lack of interest per se, America is often criticised for not knowing anything about what goes on any where else in the world because they simply don't report it. It is exactly the same all over and I think its a symptom of the global media companies in that they only report what affects that countries populace. Some of the largest disasters in the world tend to only get a passing mention in the news such as the indian floods. It's mostly, There are hundreds dead and two of them are English/American/Austrailian so those two are interesting the rest are just foriegners and not like real people. Anthony
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I was reading the thread below started by Martin Marvinski regarding coming to US. He started his post writing that people "hate" US. I don't know the exact quantity of people who love or hate US but stories like this one never made good impression of US in the past and neither these stories will in the future
Everybody would consider this "a pity but normal" if Indian or Iraki Soldiers did this. But it mixes very badly with the US' all over "we're the champions, good guys, heroes and saviors" attitude. That's what upsets people - that "the US"* don't live up to their own standards. *) overgeneralization deliberate
We are ugly but we have the music Leonhard Cohen [sighist]
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This story seems a little far-fetched to me; Amuricuns often accidentally, rather than intentionally, bomb people they didn't mean to bomb. Christian Graus wrote: US reports with similar distrust and expect the truth to lie somewhere in the middle My emphasis. "Programming is really just the mundane aspect of expressing a solution to a problem. There are talents that are specifically related to actually coding, but the real issue is being able to grasp problems and devise solutions that are detailed enough to actually be coded." -John Carmack [^]
Daniel Ferguson wrote: expect the truth to lie ROTFL :P Christian I am completely intolerant of stupidity. Stupidity is, of course, anything that doesn't conform to my way of thinking. - Jamie Hale - 29/05/2002
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Fact : the western press/media is far for uncensored than the rest. There are a lot of Western Journalists in Afghanistan, who all wnat to get a big story. Coverups in a situation like Afghanistan are a lot more difficult now than ever before. So I find it weird that the story appears in that journal and not others. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
More about me :-)
Colin Davies wrote: There are a lot of Western Journalists in Afghanistan With all the sophisticated targeting systems and the bombing of innocents in Kosovo and more recently, Canadians (who the hell wants to bomb Canadians?), I'd stay far away from an Amuricun jet pilot with a hard-on (maybe he has trouble remembering which stick he's grabbing?). Colin Davies wrote: So I find it weird that the story appears in that journal and not others. Watching/reading the news only makes me more cynical (if that's possible), so I don't. "Programming is really just the mundane aspect of expressing a solution to a problem. There are talents that are specifically related to actually coding, but the real issue is being able to grasp problems and devise solutions that are detailed enough to actually be coded." -John Carmack [^]
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Daniel Ferguson wrote: expect the truth to lie ROTFL :P Christian I am completely intolerant of stupidity. Stupidity is, of course, anything that doesn't conform to my way of thinking. - Jamie Hale - 29/05/2002
I'm glad you found that funny. :-D "Programming is really just the mundane aspect of expressing a solution to a problem. There are talents that are specifically related to actually coding, but the real issue is being able to grasp problems and devise solutions that are detailed enough to actually be coded." -John Carmack [^]
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Everybody would consider this "a pity but normal" if Indian or Iraki Soldiers did this. But it mixes very badly with the US' all over "we're the champions, good guys, heroes and saviors" attitude. That's what upsets people - that "the US"* don't live up to their own standards. *) overgeneralization deliberate
We are ugly but we have the music Leonhard Cohen [sighist]
peterchen wrote: That's what upsets people - that "the US" don't live up to their own standards. When you beat your own horn too often you're considered a wanker. "Programming is really just the mundane aspect of expressing a solution to a problem. There are talents that are specifically related to actually coding, but the real issue is being able to grasp problems and devise solutions that are detailed enough to actually be coded." -John Carmack [^]
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peterchen wrote: That's what upsets people - that "the US" don't live up to their own standards. When you beat your own horn too often you're considered a wanker. "Programming is really just the mundane aspect of expressing a solution to a problem. There are talents that are specifically related to actually coding, but the real issue is being able to grasp problems and devise solutions that are detailed enough to actually be coded." -John Carmack [^]
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peterchen wrote: That's what upsets people - that "the US" don't live up to their own standards. When you beat your own horn too often you're considered a wanker. "Programming is really just the mundane aspect of expressing a solution to a problem. There are talents that are specifically related to actually coding, but the real issue is being able to grasp problems and devise solutions that are detailed enough to actually be coded." -John Carmack [^]
Daniel Ferguson wrote: When you beat your own horn too often you're considered a wanker. Agreed, but the same applies for those "crying wolf". :suss:
Mike Mullikin - People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use. Soren Kierkegaard
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Daniel Ferguson wrote: When you beat your own horn too often you're considered a wanker. Agreed, but the same applies for those "crying wolf". :suss:
Mike Mullikin - People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use. Soren Kierkegaard
Who is crying wolf, though? :confused: "Programming is really just the mundane aspect of expressing a solution to a problem. There are talents that are specifically related to actually coding, but the real issue is being able to grasp problems and devise solutions that are detailed enough to actually be coded." -John Carmack [^]
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I was reading the thread below started by Martin Marvinski regarding coming to US. He started his post writing that people "hate" US. I don't know the exact quantity of people who love or hate US but stories like this one never made good impression of US in the past and neither these stories will in the future
First, I do not believe this belongs in the lounge. While some of it may be factual there is to much that is just to questionable. Even in Vietnam the US troops never stood around and refused treatment of the wounded for hours on end, without some explaination. Why do those in India beleive any bad story of the US and non of the good. There is obviously an agenda here. To be conscious that you are ignorant of the facts is a great step towards Knowledge. Benjamin Disraeli
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First, I do not believe this belongs in the lounge. While some of it may be factual there is to much that is just to questionable. Even in Vietnam the US troops never stood around and refused treatment of the wounded for hours on end, without some explaination. Why do those in India beleive any bad story of the US and non of the good. There is obviously an agenda here. To be conscious that you are ignorant of the facts is a great step towards Knowledge. Benjamin Disraeli
Vietnam is not a subject that should be brought up to justify any American action. 16 March 1968 Second Lieutenant William Calley convicted of the murder of 109 unarmed civilians. The monument at the site lists 504 killed. I wont go into details. Source A Bright Shining Lie p689 by Neil Sheehan winner of the Pulitzer Prize and the National Book Award ( American ) News should be politics free ( it's not ) The belief or disbelief of the news is up to the person reading it. Sorry no agenda just journalists doing their job. Anthony
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Who is crying wolf, though? :confused: "Programming is really just the mundane aspect of expressing a solution to a problem. There are talents that are specifically related to actually coding, but the real issue is being able to grasp problems and devise solutions that are detailed enough to actually be coded." -John Carmack [^]
Pick any one of the 1000's of anti-US posts on this single little site. Multiply by the 10's of 1000's of similar sites across the internet. ...after a while, it gets a little old. X| X| X| I certainly agree that the US is not without fault. We make more than our fair share of mistakes in the world theater, probably because we are more active in the world theater than any other single country. Too active for my tastes. We definitely beat our own drums and sing our own praises too often and for too long for my tastes, but at least we aspire to a grand ideal and grand principles. We don't always achieve our goals, but at least we have them. I see so many other countries in the world that never take a stand, never look beyond their borders, never aspire to greatness. I see a general apathy growing in their citizens. They become extremely cynical and paranoid. They blame everybody else for their situation and forget to stand up for themselves and their families. Take a few words of advice from me (not as an Americun, but as a fellow human being): Each individual is only alive for a very short time, make the most of it for yourself, your family and your country. Stand up, be counted, do the right thing and don't make excuses or lay blame.
Mike Mullikin - People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use. Soren Kierkegaard
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Pick any one of the 1000's of anti-US posts on this single little site. Multiply by the 10's of 1000's of similar sites across the internet. ...after a while, it gets a little old. X| X| X| I certainly agree that the US is not without fault. We make more than our fair share of mistakes in the world theater, probably because we are more active in the world theater than any other single country. Too active for my tastes. We definitely beat our own drums and sing our own praises too often and for too long for my tastes, but at least we aspire to a grand ideal and grand principles. We don't always achieve our goals, but at least we have them. I see so many other countries in the world that never take a stand, never look beyond their borders, never aspire to greatness. I see a general apathy growing in their citizens. They become extremely cynical and paranoid. They blame everybody else for their situation and forget to stand up for themselves and their families. Take a few words of advice from me (not as an Americun, but as a fellow human being): Each individual is only alive for a very short time, make the most of it for yourself, your family and your country. Stand up, be counted, do the right thing and don't make excuses or lay blame.
Mike Mullikin - People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use. Soren Kierkegaard
Well said! Chistopher Duncan Author - The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Apress)
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Pick any one of the 1000's of anti-US posts on this single little site. Multiply by the 10's of 1000's of similar sites across the internet. ...after a while, it gets a little old. X| X| X| I certainly agree that the US is not without fault. We make more than our fair share of mistakes in the world theater, probably because we are more active in the world theater than any other single country. Too active for my tastes. We definitely beat our own drums and sing our own praises too often and for too long for my tastes, but at least we aspire to a grand ideal and grand principles. We don't always achieve our goals, but at least we have them. I see so many other countries in the world that never take a stand, never look beyond their borders, never aspire to greatness. I see a general apathy growing in their citizens. They become extremely cynical and paranoid. They blame everybody else for their situation and forget to stand up for themselves and their families. Take a few words of advice from me (not as an Americun, but as a fellow human being): Each individual is only alive for a very short time, make the most of it for yourself, your family and your country. Stand up, be counted, do the right thing and don't make excuses or lay blame.
Mike Mullikin - People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use. Soren Kierkegaard
Your words are truly refreshing. Thanks! Jeremy L. Falcon Homepage : Sonork = 100.16311
"The height of your accomplishments will equal the depth of your convictions." - William F. Scolavino -
Fact : the western press/media is far for uncensored than the rest. There are a lot of Western Journalists in Afghanistan, who all wnat to get a big story. Coverups in a situation like Afghanistan are a lot more difficult now than ever before. So I find it weird that the story appears in that journal and not others. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
More about me :-)
Colin Davies wrote: So I find it weird that the story appears in that journal and not others. There's a story about it in the NYTimes. I wasn't able to find it in the few other places I checked, however. Perhaps b/c it's already been reported (I'm not sure...) -- Russell Morris "WOW! Chocolate - half price!" - Homer Simpson, while in the land of chocolate.